Timec,

I am not certain of the exact instructions given to this jury. On the juries I have served on the instructions have been not to discuss or conduct your own investigation. That does not preclude one from being able to review their notes at home or develop a time line based on notes. As a matter of fact notes are permitted and should be taken by jurors especially in such a complex case. Juries during deliberation can discuss their notes amongst each other. It would not be a violation for a jury to develop and use a timeline if they feel it helps them to reach a verdict. Of course this would have to be based solely on the evidence presented during the trial. Now had the juror gone out and gathered their own evidence and developed a timeline based on that or other evidence that was not presented during the trial it would be in violation. Now as to the dismissed juror. Not only was it reported to the judge that he had made statements that regardless of the evidence or even his own opinion he intended to vote a certain way. True he did tell the judge he had not formed an opinion. I am not sure whether he had formed an opinion was really the issue. The issue seems to be that he was prepared to vote a certain way regardless. Beyond that he had actually spoken to at least one witness in the case. Again I don't know what these jurors were told but on every jury I have been on the Judge has always been very clear about having conversations with witnesses or even potential witnesses. As it turned out the juror really did not leave the Judge with any option but to remove him. For all I know that is what this juror wanted.

I haven't been reading these blogs for very long; but it's been an education.

I really had no idea that people were still this bigoted.  Call me naive if you wish...or maybe I just am blessed with friends and associates who are exceptional...but I don't hear ANY of this kind of hatred in my world.

The racial bigotry of some in here is disappointing.

Ok Timec I have to comment now. I do not believe the juror had not formed an opinion. But then again I know him and have heard him make very similar comments as what the other juror reported to the judge. You are free to form your own opinion. All I can tell you is I am basing mine on first hand knowledge. The judge got it right.

timec,  you can't be so closed minded so as not to see the difference between a juror who prepares a timeline at home and a juror who states that he is voting not guilty because of race without regard to the evidence? 

The juror that was booted was a racist.  pure and simple.  he was willing to disregard the evidence solely because of the color of the defendant's skin. 

I suspect that you would not be so protective of a defendant with a lighter skin color. 

It is you who considers race above evidence; not the jurors who heard the case.

Brothers did tell his story.  Who called for  no trial on the blogs?  Look at the testimony posted (04-24-07 at 03:41 p.m.  In summary, he said, on the way to Melvyn's house after leaving Dayton Ohio, which was on Sunday July 6, 2003, he couldn't find the street.  He stopped at a store (on Hague and Steele), where two other people said they saw a black man in a blue Dodge Neon crash into a boy on a bike.  (This statement, "where two other people said they saw a black man in a blue Dodge Neon crash into a boy on a bike, " created a question).  Was the statement his own words?  Did this statement mean there were two people at the store at the time he arrived that said they saw a black man in a blue Dodge Neon crash into a boy onTa a bike; which would not have been correct because the actual driver of the car that initially crashed into the boy on the bike was tamba Lebbie, who was driving a 1994 green Mercury Sable according to the Heading posted Friday May 4, 2007 at 02:03 p.m. or does the statement, "where two other people said they saw a black man in a blue Dodge Neon crash into a boy on a bike" mean it was a statement added in the Heading as a reminder of the witness' testimony that they saw a man in a blue Dodge neon crash int o a boy on a bike?  was tthis testimony recorded?  However, Brothers testified according to the Heading posted 04-24-07 at 03:41 p.m. that a little boy came running with his bicycle and when he came down the street. he tripped off the curb and his bike kept going....Mr. Adkins came running over and Brother told him what happened.... he went down the street to look for Whitshire.  he came back up the street and saw a bunch of people outside and the girl ....pointing at him.  He didn't want them to think he fled the scene, so he got out of his car and apologized to the boy's mother.  Brothers asked the ambulance driver what she was suppose to do.  The ambulance driver said he would talk to the mother and the mother said she didn't want the boy taken to the hospital.  Brothers said he walked over to the ambulance driver after everything calmed down.  The girl followed her to the ambulance and the ambulance driver gave him directions.  Brothers waited for the ambulance driver to leave.  In the Heading:  Columbus detective testifies about crash records. - posted Tues. may 1, 2007 at 10:51 a.m. The Prosecutor calls to the witness stand Columbus Police Detective, Wyane Buck.  On July 12, 2003, he visited Melvin Brother's house.  he helped talk with his wife Tammy Brothers on the front porch of the residence.  .........He ran a query in november with the Columbus Police Computers for any crashes for July 6, 2003 at the place where Vincent Brothers said he got into a crash in Ohio.( He ran a query in November, (of what year?). ...........He initially used the word "accident in the query.  He said there were not "accidents" at the site.  He went with detectives to interview Madera Dowell, and Brian Adkins, two people who say they saw the crash.  He also looked for Ambulance records.  He could find none.  Buck was asked last week to bring a certified copy of records that no ambulance records were dispatced.  Buck did further querries of the computers to find a crash .  He said this was a much broader search.  (What happened with the certified copy of the records that no ambulance was dispatched?  In the Heading:  Prosecution accuses defense of hiding evidence. - posted on Tuesday May 1, 2007 at 09:33 a.m. The Prosecutor withdraws her offer to make a stipulation about Stan Mosely's testimony.  the Prosecutor gives Gardina evidence from the Columbus Police Department about a computer generated report about a 911 call with regards to a crash with a little boy.  No police report was generated.  It  reveals the name of the child in the crash.  The Prosecutor has proof that defense investigator Wayne Wallace had a copy of that.  He filled out a form to get a copy and he picked up the records.  Gardina admits he had record and  did not give it to Green because he did not rely on it.  Green said, "It was sheer dumb luck that she found the report.  The investigators querried the computors for such a crash and found nothing.  Columbus  Detective buck was scheduled to come out 2 days ago.  There were no records of a dispatched ambulance.  Charlie Brown asked for certified copies of the ambulance dispatch.  Buck brought in the query and asked them to run a different word than accident and instead asked for any records around the address, Green said.  Buck said he found the document and flew out Thursday night.  Wallace also asked for the 911 call but those were destroyed, 2003.  Wallace got the reports in May 2006.

fair enough

But there are those of us who have also followed the trial and we disagree with you. the guilty man was convicted. Justice is being served.

WP,

I have three boys and yes I would be devestated to lose them. That being said, you can't minimalize the loss of a loved one, in this case my uncle. It hurt and it hurt bad. Maybe if it was my child I would hurt more but I have no experience to gauge that. I know it hurts to lose someone close and I know calling the police was not the first thing to come to mind. I called friends and family. I called the police a few weeks later but I was on the first flight to Bakersfield (actually LAX) due to the gravity of the situation. I am sure that neices, nephews, brothers and all other family members were hurt deeply by the murders.

BTW, I'm 29 years 'young' 

timec

 If you focus on all the facts of the case- We're not talking about a day in the park with the kids, Yea, you can miss a few hours from a day, but we're talking about three days during a trip to Ohio  and during that time his family was murdered and the only people who testified they saw him were people in bakersfield. Of course, they were all lying or drunk.  He had an alibi, don't forget, , he was with Troy- Funny I don't remember Troy's testimony- do you? Add to that the fact that there is mileage on the car, every single driver of that car came in to testify, local people saw him at the time of the murder, he had DNA on the glove in the house, the medical examiner is a doctor- he gives the time of death. The coroner has an associate's degree and never looked at the contents of the victims stomach and we know where they ate last. Of course there's Brother's very elaborate lie in court which showed his skills as a true fabricator, which the judge said shows consciousness of guilt.

What changed? The new baby. He didn't want the first two or the wife and his first trip was during the pregnancy. He couldn't get in the house because the garage door lock was changed so he had to try again later six weeks after the baby was born. Six weeks.

 It's really  a waste of time at this point- Timec, if you don't get the picture, you probably never will. Good luck the "Free Vinnie Brothers" campaign. Like I said. Just keep him in Kern.

Just remember a true racist is a person who allows skin color to blind them to everything else usually while mouthing off hatered of other groups of people.

 Don't focus onthe "black" juror.Focus onthe fact that one juror told the other jurors he could not be impartial and that juror was dismissed. He just happened to be black

JFrancis,

Do you have children? Find me a "mentally healthy" parent who values their uncle over their children. Being a parent is different than being a nephew. As A parent I provide every need for my child. If he struggles in school, Damn, I have to get off my butt and help him. If he needs clothes- it's on me. If her's treated unfairly- I'm the first line of defense. C'mom you must know that. How young are you anyways?

JUst look at Brother's mother- she's here and talking to the media. her voice is important. He may have uncles here but have you heard from any of them? Parent and child is one relationship- everything else is everything else.

If my uncle was murdered, I'd sit through the trial. If my child were harmed, all the security in the world couldn't save the defendent.

Anon 4:48- If you live in Bakersfield, you shouldn't make fun of any other place on earth.

I think hounding the cops to make an arrest for the sake of making one is counterproductive to justice, don't you think? That can create a scenario where one is wrongly convicted to appease family members of the victim.

Ok so now it has to be my parent or my child to feel the ugrency of calling the police right away? Interesting. Well I was on the first plane home but you got me on that one. Hopefully I don't lose one of those people in my life that way. I'm still pretty sure I would not call the police first of all. I can compare them because they are all family members that died unexpectedly(ironically, in the same neighborhood). I don't see how one can be valued over the other.

What if your not very close to your child or father?

JFrancis,

 That's your uncle. Not your father and certainly not your children. If my nephew died from across the country I would be sad and make plans to visit the family. If my three children died, I'm on the next plane home. HOw can you compare your uncle to to losing a wife, mother-in-law and three children, including a newborn in one shot. If my family were murdered, I'd hound the cops to make an arrest- even if they thought it was me. I'd be real busy looking for the killer of my family nad praying I'd find them first- not sitting around talking about the burden of proof.

No part of the prcess was BS.  It is your view of the process that is BS.

Name one defendent who just "sat back" and let the prosecution prove their case. That's just not realistic. Brother had an obligation to create reasonable doubt, he had an obligation to tell his story, just as in every murder case in the country. Name one case where the defendent sat back? Of course you can't because you're not making real sense.

The fact is Brothers had an obligation to create doubt by telling his story or having others tell his story. If his story don't fit- only the most nullified jury can aquit.

 If your family is killed and the prosecution has evidence that points to you, yes, you need an alibi. Or not. But if you ever want to breathe free air again, you might want to have one. If my defense lawyer told the jury the "remember the burden of proof is on the prosecution" as many times as VB's did, I would have choked him right there in the court room. That's like saying we have nothing for you to believe in but we believe you can't  believe the prosecution. Well, how's that working out for VB?

In any case, you need a defense and not a slogan. Here's another bit of reality. People say innocent until proven guilty. If so, where was brothers for the two years leading up to the gulty verdict. Right. He was locked up for two years even before he was "proven" guilty. So technically he was innocent but he was not free. But that's the case for every murder suspect. 

Slogans are jokes. A case is weighted on both sides of the argument by any jury. When the trial is over, it's convenient to attact the prosecution but also look at the defense to see why the jury voted as they did. They weigh both sides and lying defendents don't help the situation. This was a fair trial and the outcome was the only outcome it could have been.

   I don't live in kern County or california- and I'm glad i don't. I didn't know Brothers but I know people who did know him. What does any other case or any other situation have to do with the facts in this case? HOw long are we going to carry our baggage with us everywhere we go? I'm not saying there's no prejudice in the world but the same "evil" Kern county took in Brothers as a substitute teacher and helped him rise to the level of assistant principal. He partied and killed his family. Now, you people suggest the whole county is racist and no black can get a break. He had a break-he squandered it- That's what the evidence shows.

 I followed the case. No evidence was presented on Kern County being backwards and racist during the trial. Brothers defense did not present that as part of their evidence so where does it come from and where does it belong? You guys deserve to have Brothers in your community- If he promised to live out his days in Kern County, I'd vote to set him free.

Wordpeeps,

I was on East Coast Time (Indiana) when I found out about my uncle. What are your other suggestions for "proper police crime vindication protocol"?

timec,

  You have shown your true colors. Anyone who disagrees with you is "racist." I guess Mr. Harper is a racist by your standards I am a also racist. I'm black- just take my word for it. I believe it's dumb to go to court and believe the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt is on the prosecutor alone. Anyways, she proved Brothers was in the car and the car was in california by bug evidence and mileage. It is up to the defense to create reasonable doubt in her facts. Part of creating reasonable doubt would be a solid alibi. It's not as if one side crosses their hands and says "go ahead prove me guilty." People who can, pay a lot of money on defense to - prove their innoncence.

 Green met the burden of proof. the defense failed to create a reasonable doubt. Brothers accident story didn't help. As did Troy, as did his lack of an alibi. Now if I'm a tad bit racist for thinking that- you're a tad bit irrational and falling on race and insults to make the point you can't make with reason. Too bad for you. Youre too dumb a brother for me to converse with.

  As far as calling the police. If you are on the east coast and your family is killed on the west coast, How could you get accurate an account of the crime without the police. Who else has been to the crime scene drawing evidence? Were there any survivors- this was a multiple murder. Not like the crimes you guys are comparing it to. I'd want to know if any of my kids survived. How were they killed? Who else can tell me that but the police. I'd call my pastor but he'd suggest I call the police for accurate details as would anyone else in a multiple murder. 

 P.S. can Brothers change his story on appeal. that would be kind of stupid- like you just get so many tries until you get it right. I'm wondering if his testimony in this trial can be brought up in appeal. An appeal cannot be a wholly "new trail" because that means looking up witnesses who have moved on with their lives and talking about something that happened six or more years ago. I believe his testimony is on record and should be used again and again and again. My sympathies are with the children who were murdered in this case and not with the perp just because he was black.

  One side is discussing this with logic and reason while the other is using emotions and insults.

You can't have an honest debate when you are pitted against liars or fools.

My gut tells me he is guilty and I really, really do want to believe he is guilty, although I have some questions. I think what makes this case controversial, from my perspective anyways, is this prosecution team’s long history of wrongful convictions.

anon 10:59

 If being crazy was crime, you'd be on death row.

Off the main topic but on the secondary topic which is...

As clever as pan/red/neo thinks he is, I honestly believe at least half the anny posts are his.  I also believe he posts, then refutes or insults his own posts just to stir the pot.  Pay attention to the pattern.  The man is nuttier than a fruitcake.