If the "Gun Grabbers" can't get you one way, they will do it another..........

They are nothing if not resourceful

(and devious)

(and duplicitous)

Extinction = The inability to adapt to the inviroment that one finds itself in. The Calif. condor program has been a dismal waste of $$ and there is no difinitive proof that lead bullets has any thingt to do with it.  The only way the Condor can survive on it's own is if we eliminate all human life in the state.

The Condors die from various forms of Darwinism stupidity:

1) Drinking Anti-Freeze and other substances not meant for them

2) Flying into inanimate objects (like walls, windmills, etc.)

3) Various other manifesttions of the inability to adapt to their current environment

Reverse Darwinism to keep a veritable "buggy whip" viable?

And just look at what the obviation of DDT did in Africa Pete.

Or don't you care about the malaria and the denizens therein?

(I had malaria once and its no picnic)

The diminutive 17 HMR shoots a 17 gr copper jacketed projectile the bulk of which is a polymer tip. Plastic bullets in essence.

They are very minimal but they are ricochet "safe" in that once they hit virtually anything they will disintegrate.

I don't think this would be a good alternative for larger game rounds however.

Hey! I have an idea!

How about DU rounds?

(and I don't mean Democratic Underground for you Libs -- I mean Depleted Uranium -- U-238?)

Pete,

In all the DDT reports I have read, and there have been many, I do not recall Condors being mentioned, ever. The birds most effected by DDT were the insect eaters and those that prayed on small rodents that ate crops and insects. Primarily Owls, Hawks, and Eagles. those birds have made an outstanding comeback with out any human intervention other than the cessation of DDT use. Condors on the other hand rely solely on the intervention of man and their survival rate once released into the wild is pretty low.  By the way, the South American/Andes Condor  is doing quit well and the only real difference between the two is where they live. So, extinction is really not an issue.

They will come up with something new to get those coyotes,and  another anti malaria spray. Ever see one of those bad boys flying? Put the cap on your anti-freeze,and go check one out. Majestic~According to the Yokut tribe, the condor sometimes ate the moon, causing the lunar cycle, and his wings caused eclipses. There are only 302 so ,unfortunately, they will go the way of all things sooner or later. Meanwhile I'm rooting for the underdog or bird ,in this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... different genus Charlie,they have been found to be the last of their kind

http://www.fws.gov/hoppermo... where there is a wealth of government info: note the bottom of the page where they state the bird is intelligent,for a bird and social. Tons of good information about these birds,with some good photos also,for those who have not had the pleasure of seeing them in flight.

Only if they start winning all the time Pete.

But we could change them to the Turkey Buzzards

They'll still be around

Has a certain cache', no?

........or just the Bakersfield Buzzards.

I like that!

Most of the problems as a hunter is we have been lied to many times.

There is no proof these dead Condors died from  hunters bullets left in dead animals.  They have tested these dead birds (Two) and the lead they had was not from bullets

Barnes Bullets went before the Fish and Game 5 member Commission and lied.  They stated that the new ammo that they had plenty of in all calibers... would be cheaper and available in time for the July 1 2008 dead line.  Today  (14 July 2008)  there are no rounds for the 22 rifle or the .17 caliber rifle and many other common fire arms.  I also have a .223 cal, rifle.  I can buy 20 rounds of this leaded ammo for $5.97.  While 20 rounds of non-leaded ammo is $55.00.  Where is that CHEAPER??  Barnes Bullets lied and the F&G commission bought it without even checking for themselves.  That is the major problem with this "lead" "Non-lead"  changeover.  We hunters will do the right thing, but give us the respect God intended.

I say, delay this Non-lead" ban 6 months to one year until government gets their *stuff* together.

One more thing.  This is going to be a major problem when the "Official" checks a hunter in the Condor area.  Now remember, that hunter MUST have non-leaded ammo only in his or her position or be fined (first offense)  $500.00.  PROBLEM...... There is no way to know if the ammo is lead on non-lead just by looking.  The manufactures are not marking this ammo as non-lead.  The only way to tell is by looking at the carton in was sold in.  Who is going to carry empty boxes into the field?  In other words,..... this law can not be in forced unless the "Official" removes ALL the hunters ammo and has it analyzed.  What is the hunter supposed to hunt with for the rest of THIS trip?

 This is submitted by a retired federal criminial investigator and an avid California hunter.

This whole thing is as dumb as dirt. Condors are probably THE MOST STUPID animal in existence.

Chico, you're right. it's the tree huggers.......................................

For petes sake Condors are vultures, scavengers.  They can't even hunt food.  If other animals don't die the condors will.  Unless you hand feed them in a sanctuary that is.

Besides, someone told me the other day that all lead bullets had been banned.  Anyone hear that?

The California Condor was described by English naturalist George Shaw in 1797 as Vultur californianus. It was originally classified in the same genus as the Andean Condor (V. gryphus), but, due to the Andean Condor's slightly different markings, slightly longer wings, and tendency to actually kill small animals to eat,^[3] the California Condor has now been placed in its own monotypic genus

source: Wiki (don't want no lawsuits from Monte)

So far places like Tejon Ranch and some others like D-8 and 9 (significant for deer and bear, pigs, etc. have been banned for lead. Game Wardens up here tell me they will  "let us slide"  for first year but not after that.

Gonna be a lot of ranchers and farmers (let alone just hunters) highly PO'd over this!

but the fact remains, what dlzdyno posited is spot on. Ascetaining certain bullet types  (copper jackets, ballistic non-lead tips, etc.)  will be difficult if not virtually impossible for the F&G dudes to verify contain lead.

Another dumb law just as dlzdyno and TonyH have said