Now, I could sign up for changes like this.........................

 "we are rapidly running out of other people's money"

Exactamoondo.  Sadly, this guy is already facing reprisal for giving his opinion.

Unbeleivable. Thanks for sharing that article.

Mr. Organic stepped into the doo-doo pile with his regurgitation of Republican talking points regarding health care. The reason many states have refused many of the so-called open market insurers is that these companies refuse to provide coverage t heir citizens need. The reason mandates are in place is that insurers do want to be on the hook for costly illnesses. We certainly do not need higher deductibles. We have plenty of those policies to go around right now, which is why so many Americans go broke over health care. There is tort reform where many states have placed caps on rewards for malpractice, even though a report just a couple of years ago argues convincingly that settlements from lawsuits over malpractice account for a miniscule fraction of our health care costs.

I would argue that the right to life, libery and the pursuit of happines means have guaranteed health care availability to all. Their is nothing in the Constitution about the length of patent rights on pharmaceuticals either. Should we rid ourselves of patent rights for drugs?

Why/How are these Republican talking points? Is it because they would allow/require people to take control of, and make a few decisions regarding their health care rather than just being mindless sheeple herded towards the "Dip Trough" by Big Brother Government?

How can higher deductible equate to "so many Americans going broke"? You're terribly wrong about that one. A $500, $1,000 or $2,500 front end annual deductible isn't what causes people to "go broke". It's the annual and/or lifetime cap on their policy that causes that. Higher front end deductible should equate to a higher cap. It's all about money in and money out. Currently, if people would take note of the caps on their current insurance and do a little research into just how much certain medical treatments cost, they'd know whether or not supplemental insurance might be needed to cover things above those caps. That insurance is fairly reasonably priced. It's about like buying term life insurance.

The costs associated with malpractice insurance for Doctors and liability insurance for hospitals is a very large percentage of their expenses. On average, Doctors pay over 1/3 of their gross income for malpractice insurance premiums. This whole malpractice insurance system does little more than make Attorneys like John Edwards wealthy. Even if the Doctor isn't found to be negligent, it still cost his insurance a lot of money to defend him against a frivolous law suit. If the Doctor is a quack, take away his medical license.

I would argue that the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness means not being forced by the Government to support a lifestyle for total strangers who, at one point or another, made choices in life that produced less fruit than they feel entitled to.

"Why/How are these Republican talking points? Is it because they would allow/require people to take control of, and make a few decisions regarding their health care rather than just being mindless sheeple herded towards the "Dip Trough" by Big Brother Government?"

I guess universal healthcare would not allow people to make medical decisions then? Sorry, but those of us without insurance can't make any medical decisions except deciding how bad your condition is before going to emergency and getting a monster size bill in the process. If everyone had healthcare, I guarantee you we'd all be healthier. We might not see so many overweight people walking around and costing more later in life for their poor health choices (like eating chicken fried steak & gravy all the time). The mindless sheeple to me are the ones that don't take care of their bodies.

Our Future under Oscama?

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

 Be careful,  you guys.  This one requires an attention span ... there's no political rhetoric.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

--virgil

"If everyone had health care, I guarantee you we'd all be healthier. We might not see so many overweight people walking around and costing more later in life for their poor health choices (like eating chicken fried steak & gravy all the time)."

I don't think having health care would make people change their dietary or exercise habits, just like I don't thing that level of income changes those things either. Higher education doesn't even seem to change that. Shoot, I'm not sure what it takes, once people are in that rut.

Some people make that radical change after a significant event in life. They, or a loved one almost dies from a heart attack, etc... Other people just continue on down that road and make no changes. They wish they were thin and healthy, but that's as far as it goes. Even people around them can't change them. It's something that they, themselves have to get right in their mind. Quitting smoking is about the same thing. Nobody can force you or bribe you or beg you to do it. You have to get it right in you own mind and do it for yourself, or it'll never happen. I dare say that there are smokers out who, if made to choose between smoking and free health care, would choose to continue smoking.............. 

 Think about it this way, Tony.  People having regular access to physician influence eating habits.

Here's an example, and it's me. I have a blood panel done every year, or so,  to make sure I know most things are operating the way they should be. About three months ago my panel showed high cholesterol.

I have to stop eating bacon and chicken fried steak. You know, at least for a while.

I'm still a young guy, and seeing a physician regularly - knowing I have that access - has major positive effects on my long term health ( well, that's what the studies are showing ) .

 I look at it in terms of well being, too. I believe I have a greater ( better ) sense of it.  

I believe also that my neighbors should have that as well.

--virgil

I'm afraid I don't see the connection between health care and eating habits.  My Dad was a lifelong bacon with eggs fried in the bacon grease and any other unhealthy food he was accustomed to from his West TX upbringing and depression days.  He also had great health coverage and the money to pay his part of the gap.

He lost both legs due to cholesterol blockage in his groin arteries and continued to smoke and eat what he chose until several strokes took his life at age 71.

And he was insured either privately or Medicare.

virgil, that's assuming everyone else is as conscientious and is willing to change.  I see a doctor on a regular basis and still have terrible eating habits.

You and Pete are assuming too much.

I really like chicken fried steak and mash potatoes.  A BLT with lot's of bacon is another favorite; and CARNITAs !

I just gotta not eat it everyday ( perhaps only once a month for a while ) and eat more lentils.

--virgil

"I see a doctor on a regular basis and still have terrible eating habits."

Well,  yeah ...

But , Nancy, like I said, I believe that my neighbor should have that same option of regular access to a physician. Hopefully, a doctor they can form a mutual working relationship with. You know, raise their kids with and all that.

--virgil

virgil, what you just posted is a far cry from an assumption  that having access to a doctor will change eating habits.

When I say I see a doctor regularly..I see one if I feel I need to and need to have a script filled, not just because I have the sniffles or a tummy ache.  A higher deductable or co-pay would probably end a lot of hypochondriacs nonsense visits to the doctor.

Tony, I don't know what kind of supplemental you're talking about..regular insurance or Medicare but a friend told me he pays about 200 per month for supplemental and then there's the 96.00 that come out of the SS check for Medicare.  I havne't looked into it yet because whatever it is..I can't afford it..lol.

"When I say I see a doctor regularly..I see one if I feel I need to and need to have a script filled, not just because I have the sniffles or a tummy ache.  A higher deductable or co-pay would probably end a lot of hypochondriacs nonsense visits to the doctor."

No assumptions from me, Nancy.

It's recomended people see a physician at least once a year. I happen to think it's a good idea. I bet the nonsense visits to the doctor for the sniffles would decrease.

Having public health nurses people can call would be another beneficial service to have around.

--virgil

Virgil, I believe your neighbor does have that same option. It sounds like we all have that same option. You and I, when it was time to make certain decisions, made them in such a way that health care was a priority.........

I'm afraid that I know WAY too many people who actually have a health care option at work, but opt out because they can take home an extra $50 to $70 a month. Where does that extra $50 end up going? How about cable TV, good Internet access, a better cell phone package, more Beer,......................

Now, tell me again why I should pay help pay for their socialized health care.

Nancy,

If I went out by myself to buy a health insurance policy comparable to what I  have through work (my employer pays half), it'd cost me about $1,700 per month to cover myself and my kids. (My Wife is covered through benefits where she works.) An additional $200 a month is a small amount compared to what I've been looking at.

I got an additional supplemental policy for my folks about 15 years ago. It didn't cost much then, and it hasn't gone up since I got it. I send a check twice a year. In the last couple of years, it's been a good investment.

EDIT: Since I get my insurance through my corporate employer, there are almost 200,000 people on the policy. Economy of scale and the increased bargaining power drops the price to about 38% of what it would cost for me to go it alone.

My granddad was almost 90 when he died (went to sleep & never woke up) after eating the egss & bacon with black coffee up till he died. Dad was a smoker till he died & it wasn't cancer that got him it was an anurism. Both were doctors to boot. I sure don't want to see the goberment tell me what I can eat & drink, the medical profession is always changing what is good & not good & it usually switches back & forth. I remember when they said eggs were bad, then good & now eat in moderation, which in my way of thinking means nothing has changed, drink enough water it will kill you. We need healthcare reform but not all out goverment run care, if you want that why not get on Medical or Medicare or for that matter how do the homeless living on the streets get care? Get something set up to were the hospitals, insuance whoever can't charge $10 for a Q-tip or $100 for a bandaid. Another option would be to go back to the way it was in the 30's & 40's & still does in some small towns, you go to a doctor & he takes care of you & you pay HIM, if he charges to much or the service is crappy you go to another one, it might take some time but eventually the gouging docs & the crappy service docs won't have any patients & be out of business. You get better service at a reasonable price for the area, obviously a doc in Sidney Ne isn't going to make what a doc in Beverly hills is making but with the cost of living difference they will both still have a good income for their area.

I'll check on it Tony, thanks.  I don't know why the one my friend has is so expensive but for fixed income people, an extra 200 a month can be out of reach.  It sure is for me. 

My co-pays are 8 bucks and 11 for a specialist and my part of an 11,000 surgery in March was $200 and they contacted ME to set up payments if I couldn't pay it all.  So far so good.  I realize that eventually I'll probably start having more health problems since, as you get older, "what doesn't fall off just quits working" but for now what I have is working for me.

That's why I got that policy so long ago. It was cheaper when they were younger and healthy. If I went to purchase the same type coverage for them now, I doubt if I could even find a policy. I was trying to plan ahead.

The deductible is A LOT higher than what you stated, but I make sure that I have something set back to cover it for them. I got the policy, my responsibility.........They ARE my folks, after all....

It's the oldest Son "thing" kicking in I guess.

"Now, tell me again why I should pay help pay for their socialized health care."

Because you benefit off the same system that denies access to the same level of health insurance you have to millions ( 50, or so ).

Also, What's good for your neighbor is good for you , too.  Jesus knew that .

--virgil

Everything people complain about with regards to health reform. Are reality today in the insurance arena.

If you belong to a company plan. The rates are higher for all, because there are smokers and fat people that MUST be covered.

If you have a personal plan. Good.  Your rates go up if you smoke, they go up if your fat.

Why does a corporate CEO telling you what to eat, taste better than a health  official?

No one is forcing a "lifestyle" on anyone, tonyh. I do not understand where that comes from. any one in America is free to ingest all the grease and fat into their systems as they want. And you're right about $500 or $1,000 or $2,500 deductibles not being the problem. My 55 year old sister who drives a big-rig for a living cannot afford decent insurance today. She can get the $5,000 to $10,000 deductible types that are sold in many places but with the many riders attached to each of those they are not a health insurance package but simply a health system scam. You, tonyh, are paying $24,000 a year just for medical coverage. That is more going out for health insurance than a quarter of the population in America earns in a year. 50% of the population earn less than $44,000 grand. How does anyone afford housing, transportation and food when the cost of good coverage is $24,000 a year.

What I find truly remarkable over all these discussions is that most people must not be able to remember back just 10 years ago when costs for health care were so much more reasonable. All of this crisis occurred this decade as premiums and bogus coverages mushroomed beyond Americans ability to pay for these services. Some technology costs are factors, but the biggest factor in rising costs are the wage declines coupled with people forced out of the insurance pool.

President Obama spoke in response to an insurer's question Friday at a townhall meeting in Bozeman, Montana. The question was pointed at the ratcheting up of the rhetoric vilifying the insurance industry. Obama's response was as centrist as anyone from both sides could ask for on this debate topic. He answered that in order to bring costs down more people need to be included. He explained that there are insurance providers who are participating in this process and mentioned Aetna specifically.

Insurers have long argued that our government needs to mandate both the selling to all people and the mandate that all must buy in. This is how coverage happens in Japan, Switzerland and Germany. Everyone plays. Those on the bottom economically are subsidized by the government. This is not socialism, this is social sanity. And it works.

Private health insurance companies are simply too entrenched to go away, but that does not mean that their business should be above regulation and real competition, which could happen with a public option that does not rely on tax dollars but a pay as you go model.

Anyway, thanks for your comments. The reason I came back to Bakersfield was to look after my father, who did have a living will with medical directions on his end of life care. It was a very valuable tool to have in the kit at the end.

 "If you have a personal plan. Good.  Your rates go up if you smoke, they go up if your fat."

I got news for you. Even in a corporate plan, you pay more if you smoke or if you have something else wrong with you.

"Because you benefit off the same system that denies access to the same level of health insurance you have to millions ( 50, or so )."

Just how do you figure that??? I benefit because I CHOSE to go to work for a company with corporate insurance, and accept their contribution over additional pay from a company who doesn't offer an insurance package? We all make our choices. Mine was for health care for my kids. Hey, I could be socking away more money for retirement for myself if I wasn't thinking about raising my kids and keeping them healthy.

We all have choices and we all make decisions........................

I never said anybody was having a lifestyle forced on them. I said that I didn't want to be forced to pay for a straingers lifestyle.

If you Father has passed, then I guess you can now resume your life and move away again. My folks are still living. I'll be returning to Bakersfield in a few years as well, for the same reason.

 Tony,

They chose you first. 

How good for you !  I'm sure your deserve it and you work hard. You're still benefiting from the same system that denies millions the same access to health care you have.

Dude, you must understand that not everybody gets the same choices and opportunities to live the good life working for a good company.  Regardless of that simple, perhaps harsh and common state of affairs, it remains true that what is good for your neighbors is good for you, too.

--virgil 

No virgil, EVERYBODY starts out with the same or perhaps even better opportunities and decisions that I had. I was very careful and tried to make decisions for the future, not for right now. Even though I made several bad ones, I went to work to change them as soon as I realized that they sucked. I didn't get any free rides. Nothing in this life is free everything is give and take.

My "good life" is good for me. The "good life" is different for every one of us. We all have to make decisions in life and then have to live with the outcome. That's fair. that's also the way it is........

You're right virgil, they did choose me first. That doesn't mean that I couldn't have chosen to be a crummy Son and not see to it that they're taken care of. Again, life is full of choices. I could have chosen to have a vacation home in Puerto Rico instead. I could have chosen to live in Pacific Palisades or Malibu. I'd love to live there, but it wouldn't do anything for my folks, or my kids. I don't drive a new $90,000 BMW either. My choice.

Just one point Tonyh, it's not as simple as "take away the medical license" when a doctor truly is bad. Due to lack of communication between state license boards, a doctor can hop from one state to another gaining a new license for quite a few years before it all catches up to him. There was an investigative report by KGET earlier this year about a local plastic surgeon who had "state hopped" to California. The images of the damage he had done to local patients made it clear he shouldn't be licensed anywhere. Malpractice reform would be better spent stopping these "state hopping" bad doctors than imposing damage caps. Some might argue this would interfere with state rights, but I think the benefits of having some sort of federal level tracking of bad doctors (or even just mandated levels of disclosure between state license boards) outweighs any sort of interference with state rights.

I know, and I agree. So, fix that, and do something about the whole liability thing. Stop making the Attorneys wealthy. Why tax me, to pay for someone else's medical insurance? like I said before, we all have choices in life, and we all make decisions. After awhile, it becomes time to pay the piper for our choices made. That's called personal accountability.

Personal accountability isn't in this administrations playbook.

Tony,

" No virgil, EVERYBODY starts out with the same or perhaps even better opportunities and decisions that I had."

You're living off the system like everybody else does. You just got to be one of the lucky ones .

--virgil  

Tony,

do you think it's right for someone live off the system and not give anything back to that system?

--virgil

 "You're living off the system like everybody else does. You just got to be one of the lucky ones ."

How do you figure that???

1) How do you figure that I'm living off anything other than what I work for and earn?

2) How do you figure that making careful decisions and planning for the future has anything to do with luck? Life is give and take. My decisions have meant that I've given up some things for others. I've known this all along.

Tony,

Per Adam Smith. The father of capitalism. All wealth comes from society.

Wealth does not exist outside of society.

Your hard work may gather the nuts. But it is society that buys them. And it is to them you owe your wealth.

It is this idea that Smith bases his tenet of the progressive Tax. It states that everyone must return to society in proportion to what he has earned.

It is also this idea for which he bases his tenet of Inheritance tax. Smith believes everyone should earn their own wealth. He was intent on moving away from the idea of royalty passing money down from one generation to the other and the establishment of fiefdoms.

Capitalism relies on the tenet that the farmer must help the villager and the villager must help the farmer.

I don't give a hooey about Adam Smith. I work, therefore I earn. I trade my skills for what I'm paid, so, I'm already giving to society. Once we do our little trade (my skills for my pay), we're even.

Is this so hard to understand??? JEEZ!

" I don't give a hooey about Adam Smith"

Well,

He gave a hooey about you. Imagine that  .... hm... he didn't even know  you the way we do.

--virgil

Society also requires EVERYONE who participates, to CONTRIBUTE. If there aren't enough contributors, society will collapse. Society works when everybody trades something for something else. I trade my Engineering skills for pay and benefits. I trade my pay and benefits for goods and services.

Giving away my pay and benefits and not receiving any goods or services makes no sense at all.

Tony,

So the roads that bring your watermelons to market are not your responsibility? Just put in your 8 hours and head to the pool.

Give up the tough guy talk, it gets you nowhere.  Your idea of an economy is no less destructive to our nation than those that never work. Those that never feed themselves.

Yours is the kind that needs to drag their bucket of pecans to the mountain top. And see how wealthy you are then.

You will find that the only pecans of value are those that you can eat today. The rest will consume more energy guarding them from the pests,  than sustenance they will provide.

You say you thought your life out. That you are well planned.

But the fact is you are not prepared for the emergencies.  You have not thought out all the possibilities.

There are thieves in the night that will take everything you own.

There are thieves in the night that society will protect you from.

When this happens. will you still turn your back on society.

Or will you come groveling for a loaf of bread..

Tony,

By the way. Nothing amuses me more than those that shout they are capitalists and the rest are socialists.

When in fact when faced with reality. They have an economic plan that has no relationship to Capitalism.

I have no problem with anyone inventing their own economy.

What bothers me is the cowardice involved in inventing a economic model then proclaiming it to be capitalism. Hiding behind a lie.

Call it anything you wish. But just don’t make a mockery of Capitalism.

Tony,

Again you are wrong. Adam Smith as well as society understand the world is not perfect. They allow for the indigent. They allow for the useless. They make adjustments to insure that those that fit into that category are provided for in a way that betters society.

Should the indigent be left to die in the gutters?

And should I just scoot the rascal down the gutter from in front of my home, to the front of yours.

TK,.......................never mind. You're not worth the energy...................

Tony,

Pay and Benefits?

What about infrastructure. Who build the road to the building you have engineered?

Tony,

You are losing the argument. So of course I am not worth the effort.

adampayne writes: I would argue that the right to life, libery and the pursuit of happines means have guaranteed health care availability to all. (copied as written, spelling errors not mine)

So, where does the "right to life" begin? If you choose to use this "right to life" argument, can that be applied to those in utero?

Have you, adampayne, or any other proponent of abortion watched an ultrasound of a scrambling human with a beating heart trying avoid the suction?

I have, and I quit that job nearly 17 years ago.

Last year, I had a "missed miscarriage" that had to be extracted. Abortion, on all the documents. I wanted that baby. I'm 37 years old and deliberately waited for a family.

All you fringe liberal men out there and others who voted against Prop 4 I can say only this: It is painful. You will bleed for weeks. There are complications. Shame on anyone who thinks that a 14-year-old child should have an abortion without parental consent. 

Sorry to hijack your blog, FuninBako. I understand if you delete this.

Vanity,

It is the Right wing that has insisted that the question of Abortion be left out of the Health reform debate. And that is the way it is. Abortion will not be funded by government money.

Of course it seems as if you believe you know better.

Just for your information. The debate in the courts has been about the right of the women to make her own medical decisions.

Because you have been provided that right. You were allowed to have your procedure.

The mainstream argument is Pro Choice. Not Pro Abortion.

Your argument is stuck in another century.

tkozy, At what point did I reference a "wing" or political party in my comment?

Umm, since you're so blinded by your own bias, I will answer the question for you: NEVER

As far as "choice" goes, my argument is not "stuck in another century." 

This really pisses me off: Because you have been provided that right. You were allowed to have your procedure.

Really? I had dead tissue with a partially developed fetal pole. No viability, no heartbeat. RvW wouldn't matter here.

And by the way, thanks for you condolences about losing the baby I wanted. 

Vanity,

I didn’t depicted one bit of pity in your descriptive comment, for the women who had to chose between her cancer treatment and an a abortion.

I am amazed you didn’t post photos.

Why should I feel sorry for you.

You admittedly interrupted a blog with your personal story. A story when counted by another ‘Vanity’, looking for the impact of numbers. Will count yours as an abortion. Even you admit this in your account.

The question is not about abortion. It is not about the child, it is about the right of the women such as you to choose.

Just the same as you would have another women’s choice removed, so could you.

Stop complaining about health reform eliminating personal choice in medical Care.

You have been on that mission for decades.

The abortion issue is a dead issue even in the Republican party. It is in fact splitting the Party. You have got to get into this century. Understand the truth that a Women has the right to make the decisions concerning her medical care.

Every decision you make in life, changes history. That is a unmitigated fact. Some of those decisions are life ending.

You can’t use that fact as an excuses to dictate what a person should think or do.

When or whether a egg becomes an life has no bearing on the issue.

Would you take away the right of one to decide to own a pistol. Only because pregnant mothers and their unborn get killed by pistols?

GOD gave us FREE WILL. You have no right to take that back from any human.

GOD will be the judge. And My GOD is a compassionate GOD.

tkozy, you obviously missed my point; I guess I shouldn't be so surprised. Perhaps it was too "nuanced" for you.

My extreme example was in response to adampayne's assertion that health care is a constitutionally protected right. Sorry, but when people start trotting out the "right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" as a reason to bankrupt our country even further my stomach starts to turn. 

I'm surprised that anyone who supports abortion can even type the words "right to life" without their keyboards melting.

And for what it's worth, tkozy, it was you, not me, who brought up political parties and religion.