Thank you very much for your input Shaine,

We are currently working on getting access to private land that is not used, with owners consent of course. Next battle is that in this day and age of sue happy people, it has made everyone so afraid of being sued that they don't want you to even look at their property lol. But hopefully in due time we will find the solution, and possibly get people to understand the protection against law suits provided by the California Penal Code.   ( Which I never thought would be something I would invest so much time into reading and understanding)        ;-)

Seems the solution is simple: organize and pay for a location at which you can practice your sport. Create the equivalent of a "track" for your sport by buying or renting property and setting up all the necessary safety requirements. Alternatively, petion the city to provide such an area (although this will take a whole lot longer, look how long it took to get the skate park at Beech for example). Very few people will begrudge you for doing this (well, some may grumble about costs if you go the route of petitioning the city).

However, don't expect people to support you setting up an ad-hoc "track" at the any location without getting the appropriate permits/permission from the propery owner. You have the right to practice, but property owners, even the county, have equal rights to deny you access to their land or set limitations on how you can use the land. As the old saying goes, your rights end where my rights begin. Maybe the best bet for you guys now is to see if a private property owner will donate some practice space while you work on getting a more permanent location established.

Keeping it short and sweet.......    We do not feel we are entitled to anything, in fact I have what I need, the race track because I don't stunt. But I believe the stunters deserve the same. And yes they are willing to pay fees in order to stunt at this said spot. Stunt riding is a mainstream sport, but because its still in its early fazes, the riders are having to practice illegal to be point blank, in order to perform at shows that are attended by the same people who may ticket them. Not their fault they are doing their job, we understand. What we are trying to push for is a stunt practice spot for these guys. Nothing more than an open parking lot to say the least. City pays for development and maintenance of baseball fields. football fields, tennis courts, basketball courts, and even skate parks. We understand these have all  been sports for some time and this stuff all came in time. We welcome the public input and ideas on how to come about this. The only thing that sets us off usually is when we are criticized for our sport by people who just don't understand or like it. Most of this is usually due to being misinformed or having a bad experience with a sport bike rider in the past. We in no way endorse dangerous riding, and as said before never argue about us or someone we know getting a ticket if they are doing something stupid.   Hope that clarifies a little and shows are side on a more calm and cool headed view now =)

OB said the same thing I did and you thanked him???  This is really bizarre.

Not to worry..I really am done here.    ROFL..not many leave me shaking my head in wonder, but you managed.

Thank you Blue. You have a great weekend my friend...

True, it's city owned property, but it's there for a specific reason. It's NOT open to the public. Families can't picnic there in between the runways. You can't go out there and walk your dog up and down the property. And as you now know, you can't ride your bikes on the property. Also, the FAA has a say as to what goes on at airports.

Time to move on.

So discussing it with you as I did in the above comment is negative enough for you to delete?  Apparently you aren't open to anything that doesn't agree with you 100%.   Whether or not I fly an airplane has nothing to do with anything.  And no, just because a property is open for public use doesn't mean there are no fees for using it or permission needed to use it for private events. My mention of the entitlement issue is in relation to some of your supporters who DID make comments to that effect.

Delete all you want.  That puts you in a category of bloggers who don't want any dissension or real discussion on their postings, they just want to editorialize.  Not one time have I violated any terms of service by calling names or insulting anyone.  I stated facts and asked hard questions but apparently you aren't ready to take any criticism.

Amazing..simply amazing...that's about as childish as you can get.  My suggestion is that if you're going to delete my posts, you delete all who disagreed with you, otherwise it will look like a personal vendetta.

The funny thing is I'm one of the few who support M/C sports.

As was mentioned before hand the owner of Harmons gave us permission to be on the runway after hours. Coming to the conclusion from Tuesday nights event he isnt authorized to do so. Nobody seen anything wrong with us being on the runway (pilots and restaurant owner). That being said we are now aware of the PROBLEM that you have and also aware that you have been around motorcycles for sometime and I applaud you for that. You beef as you stated is the sense of entitlement. We are not claiming that we're entitled to be there, hell nobody is entitled to anything in the world. Here are my questions to you Nancy, Are you a pilot that has a plane at the airport? If the city owns property that is open for public use then its for public use. Lets say we were drag racers and we were testing a dragster would you frown upon that? How about a monster truck like Shocker which is a very visible truck inthe monster truck circuit. What if they were testing their truck. What is the difference? To add to your coment on attitude I feel that you have a negative attitude towards my blog. So from here on out if you comment I'll simply delete your negative comments.... Good Day.

GSXR750

HA!  The very thought of me slapping skates on is too funny for words.  You wanna see upside down..that would be me.

Look, I'm not the enemy here.  I spent years with the kids who rode M/X out of Tehachapi and I know how hard it is to find places to ride.  I explained that earlier.  My son started when he was 14 and still occasionally rides a dirt bike.  When he raced we had to pay entry fees which went toward track fees, insurance, and ambulance standby.  He's been a Harley owner for I dunno, 7-8 years now and I know all about bikers and fundraisers....all the bikers do a great job there.

My beef with this whole thing is the sense of entitlement (as I mentioned ad nauseum) in people assuming they can use any property they like for any purpose they like.  If I sound hard nosed about it, I guess I am.  I still fail to see that the lawyer in your midst did not know what you were doing at the airpark was NOT sanctioned by the owners of the airpark, namely, Kern County.  If I rented a few acres of land I could not give you permission to use it as a track without the owners consent.

THAT my friend, is what bothers me.  Not your bikes, not your stunting, not anything to do with bikes.  It has to do with property rights.  And it has to do with attitude and the sense of entitlement about those rights.

Why wouldnt we? We pay for everything else we do. IE: Group rides that other groups have to raise money. We do fund raisers for the community. We hold several events each year for our fellow riders who are no longer with us. We raised over $10,000.00 for Jared Browns family and son Jordan with-in the last two weeks. When it is a cause for us to pay for something we are very well ready to pay a fee. Join us at one of our Bike night gatherings they are every Tuesday night at Harmons Rocket Cafe. We call it JJ's in memory of our brother Jared who was working on the kinks to have a nice establishment like Harmons for us to gather and have a good time without the drinks. Thanks for the idea. If you have more keep them coming. Matter of fact we're working on having a skate night at Skateland every last Sunday of the month durring the summer bring the young one and slap some skates on.... Good day.

GSXR750

Bako Boyz 

  Im thinking airports charge landing fees.  I know they charged airlines who were training with  T&G's at Meadows Field.  (use of runway)   

Are the "Stunters" prepared to pay a user fee?

city owned property that everybodys tax money pays for but cannot use unless you own an airplane?

maby deversify the use of the property for all taxpayers to use.

like the idea for different nights for different events.

the mayor could even make bucks for his ambulance service.

It is 4:45 pm. What did the city officials say today that you contacted regarding doing stunts inside the airpark? Or is this just all talk?

I believe the point has been made and the rest must be followed up outside this forum.  There is so much energy around this topic but we do not need to lose site of the issue.  What can we all as a community do to help resolve this for everyone.  If all this energy was used to find a solution we woud be that much closer to ending this.  Don't be so negative.  Help these riders find an acceptable means to enjoy what they do safely.  They are trying.  I don't know if they are learning by trial and error or trial by fire here.  Keep seeking answers and trying to find a resolutions "Syncalryder".

Heres the sum of it. Im not complaining that we cant practice on the air strip, im complaining that there is absoulutly no where we can pracitce. there are a few spots we go, which i will not mention where, that we can go that are less traveled but we have been chased off before and we still run a huge risk of being fines and/or arrested if caught even though these places see no traffic. Untill that time that we do have a spot, there will ALWAYS be that idiot you see on the freeway doing a tank spreader going 90MPH.

"But please, do not come here and whine that you're being denied the right to practive your sport."

On the same note please do not come here and to an open blog as you suggested and tell us to quit whining, when if you read the rules above the comment box we are within our guidelines.

You opinion, more than welcome obviously, your telling us to quit whining and go away............ dont look if you dont want.

Thank you

I'm not sure who you're talking to Gs but when a blog is posted it will draw comments.  If you, or others, don't want comments then it's not a good idea to put your opinions out in a PUBLIC forum.  I don't see childish banter here, I see people attempting to explain laws and situations.   As you can see from the "ground rules" above the comment box, the rules are being followed here.

If you want to editorialize I suggest you write a letter to the editor where you can state your opinion and no one can respond.

Please keep the ignorant banter off this blog please thank you... It was simply placed here for the recognition of the issue that took place. Not for your childish banter. If you feel that we're being a nuisance then you need  to step aside and find another blog to badger. Thank you for your opinion but it wasnt asked. Good day Ms, Mrs, Mr etc.

GSXR750

Look up "attractive nuisance."

edited..I'm no lawyer but even I know there are extenuating circumstances to any code or ordinance.  I suggest you let the atty in your group do the lawyering.

Now whos the Attorney? Let me pull out my California book of Civil Codes... Greetings Councilor.

GSXR750

Yeah GSXR, quit complaining on it. You making the people that are tired of reading your bulletins waste their time. They don't have enough self control to go " I don't want to hear these guys whine about not having a place to ride, so I will just not read that blog anymore".  If my mind is made up on an issue, then I am no longer going to waste my time reading it. Unless I have nothing else to do but add negative statements to people that are pushing the city towards a positive movement for the future.

I live by a park and you know what that's city property and those kids are going to get injured playing football, time to file a complaint!  

Figured if everyone else is reaching then I will too right? >=)

My next question is if its an issue of being on city property, then why have we been told that we will be cited if they see us doing it in a parking lot, even with the owners permission?

Oh yeah its because of liability I forgot, I'm just a uneducated sport bike rider. But oh wait, what was just popped up on my desk. California Civil Code Section 846. Ohhhhhhhhhh if you have private property that is used for recreation and someone is injured on it, the owner is protected under this code from any type of law suit. Hey look at me I sound like I went to school or something =)

 I choose not to comment on the issue of my occupational status. The issue is about the city owned airpark and stunt riders having aplace to practice their stunts for competition purposes only. Tuesday night just happens to be the day that the streetbike riders meet up at Harmons Rocket Cafe. BPD was out in force looking for problems and they profiled the group of riders I may or may not represent.

GSXR750

OB..again,  we're on the same wave length here.

I think you're missing the point here.  The discussion was about stunters performing illegally on land where they had no permission to be.  No one is denying your group enjoys doing what it does, or that it's a family event just as the other sports you mentioned. 

All the rhetoric in the world isn't going to change that.  All the things you've been saying have been said by MX'ers and skaters.  Do what they did.  FIND A PLACE.  Lobby for it. But please, do not come here and whine that you're being denied the right to practive your sport.  I find i hard to believe that if you have an attorney in your midst that he or she did not know what you were doing was illegal and that renters of space at airports do not have the authority to grant you permission to ride there without the owners knowledge and consent.

You're not facing any larger a battle than off roaders have been facing for decades.

gsxr750, I thought this whole issue was about stunt riders not being allowed to do it inside the city owned airpark. I didn't know they were out to crush the American dream of our youth.

Are you an attorney? You sure sound like one.

Lets just say your son or daughter wanted to stunt ride would you support them if they were bringing home six figures or more each year from sponsers and endorsers that want your son or daughter to ride for them. Now this becomes a double standard. Because they are making loads of money and your seeing it from your child/ children as they support your family by STUNTING. Regardless if these people stunting in town are making major figures right now if they had a place to practice and a place that was designated to practice these athletic tricks they could be the NEXT BIG THING.... Negative reactions create negative action. Positive action brings in positive actions. BE POSITIVE.

 As young adults that we always had people telling us NO YOU CANT DO THIS OR THAT. Think about the one thing that you as a person in your life have been denied something you loved and still have that closed door lingering in your life wishing you would have and now your too old to follow up with it...  Street Rodders all have the same story they build the car that they couldnt afford when they were young and they do it now that they are older. We as younger generations enjoy stunting motorcycles while were young when we're in our fifties etc we'll be the ones making the noise. Will we prevent our younger citizens from fulfiilling  their dreams? NO... My son and my daughter want to be this and be that well, as a parent I will support the choices they make. If you dont like what we do then leave us alone turn the other cheek we will continue doing the stunting on the streets.  If your a dirt rider and you are looking for suport in your events that you may be doing count us out.  Look at Evel Kenevel he was the first stunter and you were a fan as a kid...   

GSXR750 

Bdub,

bikes come from the show room ready to race not to stunt. yes mx bikes are made to jump 50ft in the air thats why they make the suspension the way they do. im not arguing that you need a place, look at what happened to most of us dirt bike riders in the past years. the point is someone doesnt want you there. just like the dont want mxers which is why a few so cal towns have banned it to the point that we cant ride on private land. im making the point that you dont have a place because you dont have the numbers to support it right now. just because I think stunting is stupid doesnt mean you shouldnt do it. im telling you why its frowned upon at this time

Learnem..Thanks for that note and support. 

OldBlue56 and Bonuschris.... I ate at the Rocket Cafe last night too.  No comlaints from me.

Sincalryder....Thank you for trying to share information instead of just bashing.  PS...I am proud of you.

guys...i am trully sorry to hear about this.. given an opportunity to get offthe streets and showcase your talents, only to be hassled and told no

as an avid off roader....i feel your pain, and call on local leaders to quit relegating city space to classic sports such as baseball, basketball and football, yet leaving out newer up and coming sports like motorcycle freestyle and atv/offroading...

for crying out loud, you built a skate park for the skaters...where is our areas to participate in our sports???

GoBlue,

We have not argued your point one bit, and yet you keep passing over ours. Yes stunting a high performance bike On the street is dangerous and illegal, and should not be done. Which is why we are looking for a controlled placed to practice stunt riding. And no most the bikes that are set up for stunt are not made for speed. These bikes have big name manufactures that make the parts for the bikes such as larger sprockets, crash cages, hand breaks, etc..  

All the big bike names have stepped up and actually sponsor stunt riders now. Please do me a favor and check out this site  http://xdlshow.com/    and inform yourself. This is where our biggest problem comes from. Due to the sport being so new and in its beginning, the general public is not aware of what is actually involved. Stunters now are making the same $ as other sports figures, and even have in their contracts item such as no street riding.

The kids coming up and seeing this new sport are wanting involved. Do me a favor each and every one of you and just do a little research about professional stunting and where it is going and what involved before bashing us. As said many times before we are arguing with each other over the same thing, both groups want the riders off the road not putting themselves or the public in harms way.

If companies such as Kawasaki, Suzuki, Redbull and Monster Energy drinks are dumping so much money into the sport, there must be something there.

Goblue41, so you mean to tell me dirt bikes were intended to jump 50 feet in the air? snow boards were made to grind rails? bicycles were made to ride in skateparks? or have they all been adapted to fit different needs? Whether you belive me or not street bike stunting IS a sport and is Very popular around the world. No i would not take a race ready bike and stunt it, thats why there are modifications to be made. its the same as taking a car and modifing it for the track. I do not encurage racing or stunting on the street and if you would read what i said you would see that we are trying to keep it off the street and away from where people could be hurt. also, there are legal areas for stunting in other counties. If we had one here there would be a lot less people on the streets doing tricks.

Bdub600rr wrote:

This whole ordeal makes no sence to me. We try to keep the stunts off the city streets and this is what happens. Where are stunters supposed to practice in a safe (and legal) enviorment? Stunting is not a crime. If you can consider skateboarding, Motocross, BMX, snowboarding, exc. a sport and legal then why isn't motorcycle sunting? Their are compititions all around the world for MCstunting, so why is it illegal in bakersfield? Im not saying people doing wheelies on streets is ok, i just want a safe place to practice that wont conflict with the safety of others.

motocross is not practiced on city streets where innocent people can get hurt because some idiot loses control of his bike. furthermore motocross, snow boarding, bmx.....are used in the manner in which they were designed, sport bikes were designed to go fast on a closed course competition track. not to see how fast it can go in a straight line to the next stop light. or how long you can keep the front wheel in the air while trying to stand on the seat in a retarded flamingo position. race ready motorcycles are designed for racing not stunts. thats why there are legal places for racing, and not for "stunting". there is not enough demand for it and its not designed to operate in that manner. kinda like taking an m-16 to a paintball match....someones gonna get hurt 

I actually ate dinner at the Rocket Shop Cafe last night and had no idea there was going to be a "BikeNight". Or else I would have rode my bike. The only part of "Bike Night" I questioned was the liability aspect. Other than that, I had my wife and kids there and the bikers were all very repsectful. I did not see them really doing anything that dangerous. Further the whole time I was there I never witnessed one rider on the runway. All of the bikes we parked or riding in the area where the planes park when they fly in to eat at the Rocket Shop. I happen to know several of the pilots with planes out there as well as John Harmon. I have to think if they felt there was a safety issue for planes they would have halted this practice well before it began.

As to the cones on the runway, I wondered why those were there. I thought maybe they were repairing a piece of the runway. I also thought that maybe they were gearing up for some sort of construction project because there were so many cones out there.

OldBlue, you have a God given right to an opinion about the Rocket Shop Cafe. Still, I am here to tell you that you are wrong. The food is good there. The Harmons have done an excellent job bringing that place along. It will continue to improve. Anybody that hasn't been there yet, I urge you to give them a try. Homemade chips, sweet potato fries, great burgers... it really is a classic All-American type of restaurant.

Here is something else to try for everyone that just sits here and pontificates from their keyboard all day. Try losing the "Holier than thou" attitude that has always been so prolific on these blogs. Geez Louise some of you guys are so.... I can't even think of a word that describes it.

My final word on this whole issue, and I think if you really think about it my final point will solve a lot of problems we are facing in this country. The solution is.... PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. There is a terrible lack of personal responsibility in this country today. Everyone has an excuse for everything. I can tell you this, short of an airplane falling out of the sky and killing you, each of us bears at least some amount of responsibility for everything good or bad that happens to us. Once we all recognize this point and start to living life as such, things will get better. Apply that theory to any situation and I think you will begin to see my point.

I have no idea who that is I dont watch AM. Idol. But thanks for the offer. Ill stick to washing my hair.  

OB..no way I'm taking that bet..lol.    In harsh reality, they don't have a snowballs chance in Baks in July.

Nancy, I'll bet you all the rice in China that the city WILL NOT allow anyone to use the airpark for motor sports. They are just hoping.

gsxr750, that is okay, but if you vote for that Jason Castro, you have to leave...

One thing that hasn't been addressed yet is the fact that in any organized motorized event there is ALWAYS an ambulance in attendance.   IF you get permission to continue, I'm sure that will be a requirement and your organization will have to foot that bill as well.

JD,

First off thank you for actually asking us for answers and not just pointing fingers.

#1 we were under the impression that between what we were told and the fact the police had actually had officers watching us stunt out there, that all permissions were under control. And evidentally we were wrong, and are trying to find out how to go about things the right way. But the officers approach to this whole thing with in their own words " Targeting  Motorcyclist" is not right, when what we are in reality trying to do is give the new riders who want to perform, a safe option away from public danger. For the riders that like to ride fast, we have been able to get them on teh track in a conrtolled evironment. Now with stunting becoming a maintstream sport, with even its own place being looked at in the X-Games, its only natural people are going to want to do it. So we are taking initiative to try and promote a safe place for it to be done.

#2 The liability waiver is going to be provided now as we try to do through the right routes witht he city to enable a spot for our stunting to be praticed. The are already cities that have built "stunt parks" strictly for streetbike stunting, which has been extremely successful.

#3 Is that the officers on scene told us that the airpark is for aircraft related services only, and that no vehicle under any circumstances is to be on the field unless they are there for an aircraft related issue. And yes before I get asked, I was there, and this is not just hear say.

Once again we are resonable people and are jsut wanting to come up witha  solution to this, not asking for special treatment, just assistance in going about it right.

Heres food for thought lets all watch American Idol at Old blues? Anyone Anyone?

Gsxr..if you see motopoet posting here ask him about the time at Sprockets when he hit a tire right in front of the grandstand and went down.  Heee...sometimes standing ovations aren't all that great.

Thank you curtis, you took the words right out of my mouth. i knew if i waited you would save me from all that typing.

We really are not looking to break laws we just want a safe spot to gather and practice our sport.

sincalryder, a group of us had a get together at the establishment a few weeks ago. Even though the beer was cold, my wife and I didn't like the food. So I see no reason to come down there and have a coke with you. Go ahead and start without me.

Besides, American Idol is on on Tuesday nights....

Sincalrydr,

Your argument is falling apart, so you are running off into irrelevancies.

If the cops were drinking, report them.

If you have a waiver, get it signed.

If some other bikers are out of control, that's not you.

If you're all nice responsible people, act as though you are

Sprockets was cool. Dang am I that old.... Got to love Bakersfield.

If you go to the city and get permission then I say more power to you and have fun.  Once again, your original mistake was not getting the official permission to begin with. 

Trust me though,  I doubt you'll get that permission due to liabilities (waivers notwithstanding) and one thing not mentioned...noise.  How long do you think it would be, in the off chance you're allowed to continue, before someone complains about the noise?  Sprockets got shut down and they were miles from residences.

A few years ago, a group of sport bikers were riding out in the southwest (Old River & Panama area) before all the development went up. Just an empty road with no traffic.

Well, a rider died out there after wrecking with another biker doing wheelies.

If a biker had died or been injured on city or private property some would have said, BPD should have stopped it. Ride the bikes on the street and obey the frigging traffic laws and BPD couldn't care less. But what happens is that they get out there driving in excess, doing wheelies and stoppies, get cited and then b***h because you were caught.

Ride responsibly.

probably sit hear an bitch as long as your life consist of listening to it ;-)   And yes we are going to the city with it, but we aren't making a bunch of spray painted signs and running up the the steps of city hall with bats. Regardless of the image given we are an organized group, and are trying to do things in the up and up in the legal arena. Therefor we want to make sure we are approaching the right people and not just sitting in front of city hall waiting for permission to ride.

Look forward to seeing you at bike night and having a soda?

When not only one but three waitresses claim that they have served the officers alcohol at three different point of the evening then there is a problem. I think you made a great suggestion on the Mon-Thurs. activity. Not only would it allow people to have a SAFE place to  congregate and meet new people that enjoy the same thing. They will also generate revenue for a new dining establishment in town. And to say that the Harley guys are safer than an other group of riders heres where I say you wrong. Out of all the times I have been to Weds. Bike nights I have seen at least 10 minimal of ten doing the burnouts and nearly whiping out several other bikes even young children. We prohibit young children anywhere near the stunters "WHEN STUNNTING" . So to the comments about being a liar point fingers critisize etc but when three different people say the same thing I tend to see some sort of belief. Good day Sir and may you have a safe ride.

GSXR750

sincalryder, it appears your mind is made up. Are you going to go to the city officials and discuss this, or are you going to sit here and bitch?