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United States of Christ
This video is for all of our Soldiers serving in the Military in the United States. Video link: http://youtube.com/watch?v=... 50 comments from 19 users
1
posted by
antiextremism
on May 18, 2007 at 06:43 PM
Nice work Matt.
posted by
possummomma
on May 18, 2007 at 08:56 PM
Gee...and here I thought America was a land of freedom and founded on principles that over-whelmingly excluded a government supported, exclusive belief in one deity. Do you not realize that more than 30% of American troops don't even belief in the same God, or Christ, that you do. I know you were trying to do something nice and up-lifting...but, wow. posted by
MSgherzi
on May 18, 2007 at 09:01 PM
posted by
buffoo
on May 18, 2007 at 09:18 PM
posted by
Hardliner4freedom
on May 18, 2007 at 09:31 PM
Amazing. I wish I could perform video magic like that. "but you obviously have no clue what the whole video was made for." I'm asking. What was it made for? What do you mean to infer by "United States of Christ?" (Spam code: UHSSR) posted by
MSgherzi
on May 18, 2007 at 09:42 PM
I called it that because I'm trying to restore and remind people that this nation was founded on the basis of Christianity and that it is a Christian nation. God has blessed this nation greatly and you can disagree saying God doesn't exist, I don't care. But this nation would not be where it is now if it wasn't for the Lord. posted by
possummomma
on May 18, 2007 at 09:46 PM
posted by
possummomma
on May 18, 2007 at 09:49 PM
I called it that because I'm trying to restore and remind people that this nation was founded on the basis of Christianity and that it is a Christian nation. God has blessed this nation greatly and you can disagree saying God doesn't exist, I don't care. But this nation would not be where it is now if it wasn't for the Lord. Rrrrrrrright. You really need to bone-up on the beliefs of the "founding fathers". Furthermore, this country was founded by emperialism and democracy. NOT theism. As for your other comments, if the Lord led this nation to where it is right now, then I have some issues with his management strategy.
posted by
Hardliner4freedom
on May 18, 2007 at 10:00 PM
"this nation was founded on the basis of Christianity and that it is a Christian nation. " And what does that mean to you? What are the characteristics of a nation founded on the basis of Christianity? What does it mean to be a Christian nation? How does it differ from a nation that isn't? (Eerie spam codes. This time it's GEMAN.) posted by
paxchristi3
on May 18, 2007 at 11:48 PM
posted by
ki6amd
on May 19, 2007 at 01:55 AM
It's a simple gesture of goodwill towards our armed forces, please take it as simply that and move on. Whether you deny his existence or not, God still loves you, and would like you to love your neighbor like a brother, no matter what he does/believes. posted by
possummomma
on May 19, 2007 at 02:40 AM
Hey Skyler, Yeah. I realize that I probably hopped on the OP too rashly. For that, I apologize. No excuse, really. I'm just kind of irritated by all of the predominantly Christian hoorah over a situation that a dear friend of mine (who I spoke of in Nancy's post) is so enmeshed in. I realize the OP meant no harm. However, it's disrespectful to those who DO NOT believe in Christ, but are fighting for THEIR COUNTRY, to have others state things such as "this is a Christian nation". Tell that to the Jewish soldier who's fighting for the USA. Tell it to the atheist who's died on the battlefield defending the country. Tell it to the Muslim soldier. Seriously... tell that soldier that, despite their own beliefs, they were really doing it all for a God, or savior, that they either do not recognize or do not believe in. That's disrespectful, in my opinion. As for God loving me... I think some people are still missing the point (from the atheist perspective). Atheists do not believe there is a deity to love them, whether you believe there to be one or not. When I hear Christians say that, my gut instinct is to respond with, "That's okay... just because you don't recognize the illogical nature of your deity does not make him/her/it logical." If I loved my neighbor like I loved my brother, we'd have some problems. ;o) My brother and I aren't very close. And, I may not be a theist, but I do recognize the humanitarian and biological imperative to treat other humans the way I desire to be treated. posted by
linfestyp
on May 19, 2007 at 07:57 AM
I for one find it very inspiring that we can use the power of our love in Christ to give us the strength to slaughter our enemies in foreign countries. Jesus must be proud.
posted by
antiextremism
on May 19, 2007 at 08:39 AM
I don't really think Matt was trying to shove Jesus down our throats. It was simply the viewpoint that many soldiers obviously hold, and it is represented in a video designed to inspire, not insult. A non believer shouldn't feel insulted by another's viewpoint regarding a nations relationship with a deity. I know that religion has no place in government, but that doesn't mean G.I.s can't bond through similar beliefs. This country was NOT built to be a strictly Christian nation by our forefathers, but it would be intellectually dishonest to think Christianity did not have an influence in it's tenants. Atheists have a right not to believe in an invisible entity, and Christians have a right to hold on to their faith....thus the beauty of America.
posted by
Hardliner4freedom
on May 19, 2007 at 09:07 AM
As for me, I was trying to explore what it meant to Matthew, because I have never seen any ill will in any of his other writings. Being "founded as a Christian nation" can mean some very different things, depending on who is saying it, why, and in what context. I think what might concern some viewers is the inference (intentional or unintentional) that our soldiers are fighting for a religious cause, thus a religious war; when you infer that a nation is associated with a specifc religion, and show troops fighting for that nation while engaging in religious behavior, it creates the feeling that they are fighting a religious war. If this is the case, then we are no better than any other warring Middle Eastern country. I can see and appreciate the inspirational side of it. Shown to its intended target audience, it can easily be taken as a benign and uplifting message. But to the unscreened audience that is this blog, I'm concerned that a very different message might be perceived -- a message that I'm hoping was not intended.
posted by
Rie
on May 19, 2007 at 10:04 AM
posted by
possummomma
on May 19, 2007 at 11:50 AM
Yes, RIe. Because, CLEARLY, I'm afraid of looking different and not fitting into a pigeon hole. *heavy sarcasm intended* As for the world being cold... nope! Quite warm, actually. I actually enjoy my world (my life, my family) to such an extent that I don't miss the shackles of religion. I don't miss the yoke self-loathing that some religions affix to your shoulders. I don't miss the time devoted to bringing more money to a church that didn't need the money in the first place. I don't miss the time spent on knees, piously praying when I could have been actively pursuing what I was praying for or actively helping those who I was praying for. My problem was not with the video so much as it was with the title of his blog post: "The United States of Christ" and his insinuation that the cause they were fighting was religious in intent, nature, and purpose. And,...as far as "it's called faith" goes: great! If you live a faith based life, then the next time you get sick, I'm sure you'll turn away from the logical process that is medicine and pharmaceuticals and, instead, live or die in faith. If you believe in the "Lord's protection", then I'm sure said deity will make you all better. After all, who are you to question his wisdom and will by taking medication and using logic, science, or rational/reasonable. If God wants you better, he'll make you better...right? Do you have enough faith in your deity to refuse medical care? posted by
Hardliner4freedom
on May 19, 2007 at 02:02 PM
Oh, at 3PM this afternoon on TBN, you can see the Religious Right's revisionist history -- and the man who popularized it -- my evil twin, David Barton. "America's Godly Heritage" is the origin of the historical revisionism being bandied about today. (For my counterargument, read here: http://people.bakersfield.c... ) posted by
Hardliner4freedom
on May 19, 2007 at 05:18 PM
Possum, what is an "OP"? Please don't assume that everyone knows what obscure abbreviations mean. Randomfactor's habit of doing that is one person too many. ;-)
posted by
johnburnssucks
on May 19, 2007 at 10:32 PM
posted by
tonyh
on May 19, 2007 at 10:46 PM
I think that's a very narrow-minded statement. I'm not weak-minded, and I believe in God. I'm a scientific kind of guy, but my beliefs are strong. posted by
possummomma
on May 20, 2007 at 12:12 AM
Possum, what is an "OP"? Sorry, Hardliner... "OP" usually means "original poster" in net-talk. But, your point is well-made. ;o) To Matthew, I apologize for hopping on you like a cheetah on a wounded gazelle. It was poor form and bad netiquette. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and your video was, technically, very well done. So... yeah. I disagree with your premise and your position, but I should not have been so quick to flame-up. posted by
ki6amd
on May 20, 2007 at 01:14 AM
However... You mentioned earlier about telling the soldiers of different faiths that our country was founded on Christian principles. I would say most of them would agree. Although it's not entirely accurate, one could assume so, due to the ideas shared in both the Bible, and the constitution, and other founding documents. While some may disagree, you must also realize, that the founding fathers also had their disagreements. (See John Adams & Thomas Jefferson.) Yet these two still worked together despite their VASTLY differing opinions, and were able to overcome their differences to found this great country. The moral of this story... Even though we have our differences, we still have to work together if we are to accomplish anything... Someone please inform congress (and the President), that they're being too DAMN stubborn! posted by
ki6amd
on May 20, 2007 at 01:18 AM
And where do you (EVERYONE) stand on supporting our troops? posted by
ki6amd
on May 20, 2007 at 01:22 AM
posted by
coochee
on May 20, 2007 at 03:56 AM
posted by
antiextremism
on May 20, 2007 at 01:19 PM
Supporting the troops and supporting the war are two different things. I can think of few people who don't support the troops. It is why I balk at underfunding them as a way to get them out. If we're going to get out, let's get out, but not through attrition. Anyone who has ever played team sports, much less carried an M-16 in some God forsaken land, can attest to the importance of bonding. I don't care what bonds our troops whether it be Jesus, or Angelina Jolie's poster. Bonding is essential to victory in any cooperative event. The one thing I do want them to rally around is justice and freedom for all. I agree with Skyler that the Congress and the Administration need to stop the game playing and do some kind of bonding. Differing opinions is a hallmark of democracy, but complete polarization accomplishes nothing. We are all Americans first, and dems or repubs second. If we don't realize that, we won't be an effective nation, and we may be thrown into the annals of history just as the Romans were. Only our reign will be much shorter. posted by
anonymous
on May 20, 2007 at 03:05 PM
ki6, you look like a fine strapping young man; why aren't you serving? posted by
anonymous
on May 20, 2007 at 03:12 PM
I served in the military and bonding was the farthest thing from my mind, staying alive and in one piece was top priority. Bonding is overrated when your life and limbs are on the line.
posted by
MSgherzi
on May 21, 2007 at 11:11 AM
P-Momma: You're correct for apologizing, apparently something must have sparked you into some sort of tirade. Secondly, this country was founded by the founding fathers and I am in no way taking anything away from what any of our past leaders in Government and Military did and still are doing. But the point you don't want to seem to understand is that the "United States of America" is a Christian country. It was found in the basis of Christianity. Have you forgotten the Ten Commandments? Or perhaps "In God we trust"? Or "God Bless America"? The people in the ACLU sure tried to fight many of those, and maybe you were one of them you joined in fighting, I don't know. But the point is that those will never change because this country was founded on Christianity, and is predominantly is Christian. You can be Muslim, or Buddhist, or even Atheist. Multi-culturalism and the right to worship any religion is what makes this country great. But don't come and shove your opinions down other's throats with your religion because the U.S is a Christian nation. If you don't like the country having the Ten Commandments outside Government buildings, or "God Bless America" then leave. Goto Iraq or some Muslim country and tell them you don't like foot baths in public places and see how far you get. My response to the individual to posted that they had to work harder because they were not Christian is a line in my opinion. Maybe you were a slow learner and just could not perform under pressure so they made you work harder. Don't play the religion card every single time someone has a problem with something because it makes it convenient. So, the fact that the video says "United States of Christ" is offensive to so some of you? Well that's just too bad. The Lord is going to name his videos what he wants and how he wants. This video isn't mine, it was made by my hands yes but instructed by Christ. I'm not trying to force my religion down anybodys throat. You have the freedom to decide whether or not to watch it. Oh and by the way, if you're saying that 30% of soldiers do not believe in my same God has to do with one out of three friends dying from cancer, then you need to get your facts straight. My response to you is that if 30% do not then 70% actually do believe in the same God I do. This is nothing but a numbers game and is irrelevant. The point here is that if you don't like the video, don't watch it. posted by
Hardliner4freedom
on May 21, 2007 at 11:18 AM
I'm still curious about what you mean, though: "this nation was founded on the basis of Christianity and that it is a Christian nation. " What does that mean to you? What are the characteristics of a nation founded on the basis of Christianity? What does it mean to be a Christian nation? How does it differ from a nation that isn't? posted by
robbwillis
on May 21, 2007 at 11:32 AM
Don't you know Hardliner? The Christian concepts this country was founded on were first laid down by ol' JC himself. The planet was completely lawless before His appearance. As to the notion of ".. if you don't like, leave", that cuts both ways. If you can't handle the fact that this country was not founded as a Christian nation, why don't you leave and start one that is? Hope you have more luck than the Jonestown folks. posted by
randomfactor
on May 21, 2007 at 11:37 AM
The problem is not that the Country was founded on Christian principles, but most Christianity *ISN'T*. They like Leviticus better. posted by
randomfactor
on May 21, 2007 at 11:40 AM
Yes, I agree 30% is a VERY sizable amount, but nobody is having Christian beliefs shoved down their throat. posted by
sfinboston52
on May 21, 2007 at 11:47 AM
This country was not founded on Christian principles read about the revolution and there is no manifest destiny. Read about the history regarding the revolution and the concepts that were developed from it and the reason for the revolution. Also, what the constitution is based on and come from. Also, look at the concepts of “ posted by
randomfactor
on May 21, 2007 at 11:51 AM
I was thinking about Christian principles such as "feed the hungry, heal the sick, comfort the dying," you know, the stuff many modern Christians find too hard. . Jesus of Nazareth was a wonderful political organizer, gathering to his side those who were disenfranched by the entrenched political systems. Today he'd be a Green, since too many Democrats like the corporate welfare. posted by
sfinboston52
on May 21, 2007 at 11:58 AM
Hum! lets see. If founded on Christian Principles explain the following and how it fits into the Christian lifestyle: 1. Allowing slavery and using the bible to support it. Also, I am not of the christian belief system. I do follow more of the teachings of Buddha & Gandhi and my family on both my fathers & mothers side can trace our root back to well over 300 years on this continent. posted by
randomfactor
on May 21, 2007 at 12:08 PM
Because as I noted, organized Christians don't follow *THOSE* principles. They like the Old Testament better. *LOTS* of war, slavery, mass murder and forced relocation of those who are "different." . Christ had some wonderful things to say. Most of his followers aren't listening. posted by
sfinboston52
on May 21, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Randfactor I agree.
posted by
randomfactor
on May 21, 2007 at 12:16 PM
Gandhi said it: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians." . (His take on "Western Civilization" is also priceless.) posted by
sfinboston52
on May 21, 2007 at 12:31 PM
I use this as one of my guides t0 life: Written by Gandhi
Regarding "In God We Trust", check out the http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Became the national motto in 1957 due to the red scare (communist) over E Pluribus Unum. posted by
Hardliner4freedom
on May 21, 2007 at 01:08 PM
I just find it interesting that nobody wants to answer my question when I ask it. Personally, I have no problem with religious displays on public buildings -- as long as the intent isn't malicious. (Example of malicious intent: Judge Roy Moore's "Ten Commandments" monument was intentionally set up to disrespect other religions.) If all he wants is exhibits of Christianity around public buildings, and to acknowledge our long historical association with Christian tradition, that's one thing. But I draw the line if "I'm free to follow my religion" really means "I'm free to follow my religion unless it conflicts with his 'national religion'."
posted by
mattloch
on May 21, 2007 at 02:02 PM
Don't forget the whole quote, Random: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." I had a chance to use that quotation this weekend when two nice ladies came to my door to "talk" to me. They tried to convince me that life everlasting was a good thing, and that simply by proselytizing they would make things better for the "meek". They even admitted (on their own, with no prompting by me) that religion was responsible for much of the bloodshed in the past. They seemed suspicious when I said I think Jesus was a great philosopher, and had nothing bad to say about his lessons. I had to admit my reservations about the organizations that sprung up around his lessons and used his teachings for their own enrichment. They had never read the Jefferson Bible, nor any of the alternate or "missing" Gospels. When I asked them why not, they said that they trusted their church was correct in saying that the Bible was perfect. The look on their faces was precious when I said "I thought that churches were responsible for more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of Creation." Ah, bringing "enlightenment" to humanity, one soul at a time...... posted by
Hardliner4freedom
on May 21, 2007 at 03:06 PM
Matthew wrote, "Oh and by the way, if you're saying that 30% of soldiers do not believe in my same God has to do with one out of three friends dying from cancer, then you need to get your facts straight. My response to you is that if 30% do not then 70% actually do believe in the same God I do. This is nothing but a numbers game and is irrelevant." Y'know what point just dawned on me? We're not supposed to criticize the Iraq war because it might hurt troop morale, and we're not supposed to accept openly gay people in the military -- because doing so would be bad for "unit cohesion." Yet it's perfectly OK for one large segment of the military to alienate fellow soldiers and Marines over religious differences? So much for the unit cohesion and troop morale argument... posted by
randomfactor
on May 21, 2007 at 03:15 PM
Nobody's proven to me that criticizing the Iraq war doesn't *RAISE* troop morale. All we seem to have are idle speculations by nontroops (many of whom ought to *BE* on the front lines if they really wanted to help the efforts.) If I were stuck in Iraq, my tour of duty extended, seeing first-hand how bad things were getting, I'd cheer any attempt to get me the hell out of there.
posted by
anonymous
on May 21, 2007 at 03:18 PM
Geez, you are so unfair, didn't Cheney tell you that the insurgents are in the last throws? And Republicans never lie, they restored integrity to the Whitehouse.
posted by
possummomma
on May 21, 2007 at 03:35 PM
Oh man. Where to start? There are so many faulty presumptions in your response, Matthew. How old are you? I'm guessing you're between 17 and 20 and were probably homeschooled? If not homeschooled, then you learned your history from a religious member of your family or a recent, religious author. Why don't you try picking up some primary sources? The "founding fathers", as you called them, were a rag tag bunch of aristocrats and farmers with various levels of religious beliefs and precludements. Most were, in reality, deists (meaning that they believed in a higher power, but not necessarily a Judeo-Christian God). I've read ALL of John Adam's diaries and letters (at the Smithsonian). I've read every original writing of Thomas Jefferson that is available to the public. Thomas Paine is one of my personal heroes. Martha and George Washington wrote several letters to one another, and I've read them! You know what the common theme is? NONE of speak of Church attendance or affiliation. In fact, a few of them outright deny that they are Christian and speak of the need to keep the states, and the country, secular. So...before you base your "belief" on what others have told you about your "founding fathers", why don't you actually go see what they had to say, unedited, for themselves. Furthermore, the colonies were established to escape persecution at the hands of the majority. Be it for religious or speculative economical purposes... people came to America to avoid many, many traditions/religions/persecutions in the "Old World". When they arrived, they found an ALREADY THRIVING group of people who did NOT believe in a Judeo-Christian god. So, when you say that this country "has always been Christian", you're ignoring the 20,000 years before Columbus arrived. How very "white" of you. You have a view of American history that has been white-washed and doled out to you in incomplete bundles. It would behoove you to go educated yourself a bit further before making ridiculous statements about our country's history. Did you notice that? OUR country. Not "the Christian's country". OUR country. posted by
MSgherzi
on May 22, 2007 at 03:28 AM
I find it interesting how offended you are. I came on here to make a point and the Lord used me to create this video, and here you are in an uproar. And now you want to go on making this personal. Do you once ever hear me say anything about George Washington being a Christian? So you've read letters from George Washington to his wife. This automatically makes you some historic scholar? Look, I'll spill this out so that even you can understand it. One would say that America is "Christian" in the sense that it represents Christian doctrines, beliefs and goals. Another way is to argue from the fact that many who came here were Christians fleeing persecution in Europe. And another would say the country is a Christian country because the religion is marginally more Christian than any other religion. Possum, it is our country. You're correct. Look, America is a Christian Nation(or was), and it is now a highly religiously diverse nation with many different sects of religion. But is predominantly Christian. I think you also misunderstood when I said that this has always been a Christian country. I was speaking of ever since an actual Governmental system was established. No I don't agree with what one user posted saying that the religious freedoms are freedoms until it opposes upon our religion. Absolutely 100% incorrect. You can see right now that Muslims are clearly try to take over our nation with their religion and trying to force it down our throats. Did you forget about the story where Muslims demanded foot baths in I believe it was a Minnesota international airport? What I am saying is this clearly, that you have the right to worship Mormonism, Judiasm, Islam, etc. as long as you don't try to change the country entirely into your religion. Go ahead and preach on the streets, do whatever you want. Which is why I keep saying the fact of how the ACLU and others wanted to remove the ten commandments outside of public places because it was "offensive" to those who were of different religions besides Christianity. sfin, I also noticed on that wikipedia article you must have skimmed straight down to the "controversy" section about the "red scare" I'm going to assume you mean because of the Cold War. Above that section it says quote "The neutrality or factuality of this article or section may be compromised by weasel words." And that's great if you want to believe what Gandhi said and whoever else. All I will do is tell you what the Lord says and his Word. It is clearly up to you because you have that freedom to worship and believe whatever you want to. Possum, I think you need to go find a hobby by the way. It is one thing to have a debate about something, it's totally another thing to go on a smear campaign because of someone elses beliefs. If you don't like it, don't watch it. If you are offended, don't read it. Whether or not it's "offensive" to you is not my concern. Perhaps you're bipolar? You just apologized a post ago "Yeah. I realize that I probably hopped on the OP too rashly. For that, I apologize. No excuse, really." And here you are doing the same thing again. You cannot even keep a debate civil, that shows how immature you are. Or maybe it's the fact that for some reason you have nothing else going for you in life and bakersfield.com is the only place where people will listen to fanatics like yourself. You want to hate me? Offend me? Attack me? Go ahead. "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." -John 15:18-19 The final word is that the United States of America if God's nation. Like it or not. It's funny how atheists like yourself have to constantly resort to offend and attack somebody personally to make up for whatever loss you have. The fact of the matter is that when the Lord is speaking to me I will listen, when he commands me to do something, I will do it. I made this video for him, not for you. If you don't like it, then tough. Go watch something that makes you happy and upbeat and confident about yourself if that is what you're seeking for. One of the biggest issues with the whole debate here is the fact that many of you are either atheists or believe in some other God besides the true God of the Bible. "The LORD will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven." Deuteronomy 28:7 NIV I think it's funny how all of a sudden everyone here is a Bible scholar and knows what the Bible says from beginning to end. You all know that God and his word are great but not the Christian. Except you all leave out the parts that are not convenient. So what is great about God's word? Allow me to show you some scripture and you can see if you're applying it to your own life... "We walk by faith, not by sight" - 2 Corinthians 5:7 "Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus. That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth. And every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." -Philippians 2:6a,10-11 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not as a result of works, so that no one can boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever shall believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent his son into the world not to condemn it, but that it shall be saved through him." John 3:16-17 You can deny the Lord only for so long. You need to make up your mind, you do believe in God or you do not. And you do not have to be a Christian to be saved by the way. God will knock on the door of your heart, will you answer? Or will you let his knocks go unanswered? Now that you have gone on to attack my religion, attack my God, and attack me personally, this debate is over. "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in" Revelation 3:20 posted by
steveeswenson
on May 22, 2007 at 08:38 AM
Very nice video. As a Christian myself, I would agree that many of America's best principles are shared with the principles of Christianity. However, America is a universal nation which welcomes people of all faiths and differences. It is a nation that accepts us as we are. It is not based on being Christian. So, be happy in your belief. America welcomes you to do that. America does not ask that everyone else join you. We are all here together to help keep our country strong and free. posted by
ki6amd
on May 22, 2007 at 08:47 AM
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