Violence (abortion, euthansia, etc.) begets violence, don't you think? At least Palin thinks so: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/...

For telling it like it is ... amen, sista!

Put a sock in it, Pax.

Apparently, health care reform is a partisan issue.  The Republican Party has no ideas about what to reform regarding health care since all of their leadership never listens to anyone not in their shrinking inner circles. The Party wants health savings accounts for their cronies on Wall Street to manage. The Republicans want tax breaks disguised as credits for write offs that really only the wealthy will be able to take full advantage of. There is no help for small business, because Republicans only offer a guide to let trade associations pool business entities to help lower premiums (as if that pathetic bone is not already used by everyone in America working for themselves).

What should be a rational and information filled discussion on what we need for changes in our broken system gets pushed aside in the defeat Obama at all costs rhetoric of partisan hysteria. I still do not understand why these conservatives hate our new President so deeply. It is extremely troubling to see what poor sportsmanship the losing side has demonstrated so loudly and boorishly these first six plus months of a new Administration. The left gave George W. Bush the benefit of decency, even though he did not win the popular vote and even though the U.S. Supreme Court overruled the Florida Supreme Court to close the deal.  I see no decency from the many posts on this blog site, even though our new President is coping with the wreckage the former Administration left him. There has not been, from day one of this Administration, a grace period of trying to work with this new White House. It has been a nonstop attack with a vehemence usually reserved for foreign despots, not a newly elected by a large majority President of the United States.

It would be one thing if our new President had crammed a package through Congress preying on the fears of attack from some foreign source that suspended civil liberties like the Patriot Act. Or, contemplated having federal troops primed to invade American cities under the premise of arresting known terror cells. But, our new President has not done any such thing.

This week our new President has seen a government program work beyond all expectations in getting people back in automobile showrooms. Our new President worked to diplomatically get the release of two journalists from North Korea done this week. Unemployment dropped for the first time in 16 months. We had the lowest job loss numbers this past month in over a year and three months. There is every likelyhood one of the Taliban's main terrorist leaders was killed by our military. The stock market closed with a new high for 2009 at 9370.07. The first Latina American Supreme Court Justice, Sonia Sotomayor was confirmed by the Senate.

Americans should be celebrating this weekend, not hysterically shouting down Representatives gathered to discuss health care reform bill progress. I have to ask the conservatives, where is your pride in seeing America win no matter who is pitching? And why is it so wrong to have everyone in America with health care coverage?

The link plainly says it has not been confirmed that Palin said or wrote anything.

The organized disruption at town hall meetings is calculated propaganda portrayed as a "grass roots" movement of a majority outraged with democrats and the Obama administration. Like the Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh rallies, I notice that middle aged and elderly white people are in a frenzy. I don't see any young voters or hispanics or blacks in the crowds of these outraged, grass roots citizens.

Meantime, the GOP is hemorrhaging membership. It won't be long until Sarah and Rush are preaching to a handful of eccentrics at their gatherings. By 2012 an Independent candidate will be getting more votes than a republican. 

Ugh, geez, Palin again? Give it a rest. She's a liability, and anyone who can't recognize that needs a psych evaluation.

It seems to me that the things that everyone is upset about isn't anything that's being proposed. Death panels, etc. When is the right wing going to realize they're being fed misinformation by people that have a financial interest in the outcome of this reform (insurance, pharma, etc.). I would hate to call conservatives easily misled, but it sure seems like it recently.

i missed Pax's post. I'm sure it was of little substance.

No, you didn't. It's right above mine.

Somebody call me name? Why listen to me? Why not listen to Christ through the church he founded, specifically what New York's archbishop has to say about "unhealthy care?" http://www.catholicnewsagen...

I suppose a good analogy to all this can be the "devil in the details" that erupted after we were tempted by the forbidden fruit in the form of the "Summer of Love": http://www.spiritdaily.com/...

If the reference at the end of the article to the stare by Manson that one dude thinks may have something to do with his watch stopping intrigues you, then you may want to check out a similar incident involving Pope Paul VI from those days: http://chanceevents.wordpre...

Bet the folks will do something about Obamacare like they do with an unwelcome alarm clock. Tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ...

Are you feeling ok Pax, that post didn't make very much sense. Is that "speaking in tongues?"

This blog is about healthcare, and right wingers becoming more and more violent. I could care less what some religious figure in NY thinks, and I really don't see what Charles Manson has to do with any of this. I don't want to be a deleter or a censor on here, but stick with the topic, or at least post something interesting, or heaven forbid... your opinion in your words.

Is the smashed clock picture an endorcement of the kind of violence that some extreme right wingers are calling for? Honestly, if you actually think that Jesus would support that kind of behavior, you're so severely misled, I wouldn't know where to begin.

PP2:  I don't go out much, but I intend to make a supreme effort to go to a townhall meeting.  I'm not going to take my gun.  Just me.  That'll be enough.  I don't intend to shout; I don't intend to insult anybody; I don't intend to be rude; I don't intend to get arrested; I don't intend to embarrass my family.  None of that. 

I want to go because I have questions about what some of the ideas for plans are.  There are no plans yet.  They're in the making.  However, I have never been to a townhall meeting. 

I have sent letters and e-mails until I'm blue in the face, but I've never met one of those guys.  I'd like them to see who it is that has been sending those eternal, never-ending, everlasting faxes, etc.  And I want to know what they have to say for themselves.  I want them to answer a question I have already asked every one of them:  if there is a public option, will you make it mandatory for Congress and all federally- elected officials, appointees, employees and members of the judiciary? 

That's just one of the questions I have.

Well alicen, I have no problem with that. Attending town hall meetings gives the people a chance to communicate. Storming en masse into one of the meetings and simply shouting a catchphrase does nothing more than make it so nobody can be heard. If we all cooperate and demand reasonably priced, accessible healthcare, we all win.

If extreme right wingers and people from the insurance industry insist on escallating these public forums into near riots, they will likely get the same treatment that the old man at the baseball game got. 5000 volts of electricity.

I find it so bizarre that people in europe demand affordable universal healthcare, and in this country we have people demanding that we keep extemely expensive and fairly inexcessable healthcare. I just don't get it.

This link will take you to a televised (well, radio) speech made by Ronald Regan on this subject, before he was President. He made a lot of sence. What he had to say seems to fit nicely with what's going on today.......

http://www.sodahead.com/blo...

Just watched Greta Susteren do a special about the "Summer of Evil." Guess the liberals had their violent fun back then. Now 40 years later it's our turn to have a little fun with the August recess and the upcoming tea parties on Sept. 12. This time the devil in the details won't have its way with our health care and we'll just send it back to hell where it came from.

By the way, NOW who's being violent? http://people.bakersfield.c...

Well Pax, isn't that what you wanted? I guess the people that answered the calls to disrupt town halls and bring guns and prepare for a battle were expecting to be greeted with flowers and hugs?

We aren't talking about hippies here. This is a matter of whether or not you think everyone is entitled to affordable healthcare. You are on the side of the insurance/pharma industry. Maybe you sell insurance for a living, I don't know. We can all have a civil discussion about healthcare in this country, but not until the right wing noise machine stops this.

tony, can you post a link to a transcript of the speech?

I didn't find one. All I found were several links that point to the audio. Maybe you can find it.

I would need more details about when and where the speech was. That link didn't provide much. I'm actually curious as to what he said. I will say, it's not like anybody's proposing socialized medicine at this point, even though I'd be all for it.

Why is it so hard to provide a public option plan---the kind that provides every elected official in D.C. that WE the taxpayers are paying for...IF you already have health insurance AND like it---cool....IF you don't have health insurance and want it---cool...

Yet there are those that STILL want to play politics with the health of our nation---for that-I say SHAME on them.....

PP2:  If you saw me you'd know that I'm not going to storm anything.  I'm no wild-eyed, placard-carrying evil right-winger.  I'm just a normal-eyed, non-placard-carrying nice right-w ....... er, conservative.  And I'm not going to shout.  The only time I go anywhere near shouting is when I see certain things on TV.  Political in nature, just to be clear.

From what I can tell, the ones raising the biggest stink are industry plants. Not average type people, but Insurance industry plants, republican party plants, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if they were even paid to disrupt the town halls.

It is crazy, naive, or just being a parrot to say that the people showing up at the town hall meetings are plants. It was said of the tea parties, now of the town hall meetings on health care. I went to a tea party, and I was not a plant and dang sure was not paid. I will go to a town hall meeting given the opportunity. I'm neither Republican, or Democrat. I'm an American Citizen that sees my country changing faster than anyone can keep up with. Not sure who is running our country. Obama spends way to much time traveling around appoligizing for us, or begging for votes or I should say sway opinion on another plan of his that will bankrupt our country. PP2, you are dead set on making things Left/Right. My husband just got done having a surgery down south this past week. My DD-in-law and I spoke with other loved ones waiting for family members to get out of surgery all day long. The topic was health care, and the direction Obama is taking our country. I met 3 people that said they were Democrats that voted for Obama. All three said they sure wished they hadn't. They wouldn't vote for him again. One was a doctor. His opinion was that this HC bill from what we know of it so far will be a disaster. One of the people ( and I thought this was a bit extreme) works in health care, and has for 20 years. Her husband was having an exploratory surgery as he has had blockages in his arteries before, and had been having some similar pain and wanted to make sure his life was not in any danger. They were afraid that if this bill is past that if he had blockages he could die waiting for the proper procedure to fix him. She said where she works  medicare has already been making them ask for approval on tests that before they could just do. She said some of what is already taking place proves to her that if the Government has it's way it will end up in time being strictly Government run. The negative  things we are hearing will happen, will be true. PP2, you are no different than what you accuse others ( fox news, right wingers) of doing. You are a talking head, parrot of the Democratic party. At least that is how you come across to me. By the way, I have NEVER heard anyone on Fox News tell people to get crazy, loud, and violent. What you say they are telling people to do is exactly what ACORN and the like do. Interesting how that goes! People that make false accusations about others usually are guilty of doing whatever it is they are accusing others of doing. Life experience has taught me that!  How much more debt can we as a country sustain? I keep thinking, what the hell were people thinking voting for a man who for the most part ran on being a community organizer. Can't really use his experience as a Senator, as most of his votes were present. That tells me ( I'm here but don't know enough to put my two cents into it). That or knowing his extremeist views would come back and doom any further political positions.

Why is it so hard to provide a public option plan---the kind that provides every elected official in D.C. that WE the taxpayers are paying for...IF you already have health insurance AND like it---cool....IF you don't have health insurance and want it---cool...

Good question.  Why not ask your Democrat congressman why it takes multiple versions of a bill over 1000 pages long to accomplish what you want.  Then ask them why they haven't read the bills they are trying to jam down our throats... 

Surely, the health care that the Democrat let Congress has for their members is not over 1000 pages long.

Once upon a time our president wasn’t always down on dissent. After all, he was a community organizer way before he ever became a politician.

“Go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,” Senator Obama told his supporters on the campaign trail in fall of 2008. 
 
So I suppose he was for bickering before he was against it? 
 
The left has always loved community organizing—when it’s their interest. Heck, they are being lead by an expert in the field. But when regular folks gather to express unhappiness in the form of a dissenting opinion to their progressive agenda, they despise it, delegitimize it and seek to stop it at all costs. Grassroots are bad when the roots aren’t firmly planted in the liberal ground. Apparently bills in Congress aren't the only thing Democrats haven't read in a while -- how about the Constitution? Remember that? Isn’t this enshrined in the Constitution -- freedom of Assembly? Isn’t this one of the foundations of our democracy, organizing, getting like-minded people with the same views to come together, whether they're in Birkenstocks or Brooks Brothers? 

The White House has called the uproar at recent town halls on health care “manufactured outrage.” Senator Harry Reid calls the concerned citizens speaking their minds “loud, shrill voices.”  Nancy Pelosi called protesters Nazis, who are "carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on health care." There is no evidence on this whatsoever. 
 
And Senator Barbara Boxer (not to be outdone on insanity by Speaker Pelosi) has objected to the dress code of protesters. (Did I mention she was a Senator??) She claims they’re “too well dressed” to be legit. You just can’t have a real protest without some tie dye, marijuana and a flaming brassiere, huh.

Ma’am, this is what people with jobs look like. I guess one needs to strip to his or her tighty whities to be taken seriously. 
 
But the polling discredits their charges. According to a recent Quinnipiac poll, on Obama’s effort to overhaul of the health-care system, 52 percent disapprove of his handling of the issue while 39 percent approve. Disapproval jumped 10 points in the last month alone, and 60 percent of Independents – a key voting block – disapprove of the plan. Bottom line: the outrage is real. 
 
Despite the legitimacy of the public’s concern, demonizing democracy has become pretty common these days for the left. They wrote off the tea parties as fabricated and absurdly claimed they were funded by FOX News . Most of the mainstream media took their cue from them and refused to report on the gatherings. Congressional Democrats sought to reimpose the “fairness doctrine” on broadcasters in order to shut down the one conservative-leaning communications medium, talk radio. And the administration has already tried to label anyone who speaks up as a “radical right wing extremist.”
 
By dismissing the anger of conservatives, moderates, libertarians, conservative democrats  and independents the administration looks out of touch and appallingly arrogant. In fact, it will hurt them even more because Obama promised to listen to the concerns of the citizens, not operate with a tin ear.
 
Once upon a time, liberals prided themselves as the staunchest defenders of free speech. Now they are its fiercest opponents. In case they have forgotten, the root of the word "democrat" means power to the people. That means all people. Even when they aren’t wearing tie dye.   

http://www.andreatantaros.c...

OUR congressman for Bakersfield is 'Good ol' Kevin'...the King of NO...and about as much good as Boobs on a Bull---I would LOVE to see him come to Bakersfield and hold a town meeting--but Nooooo...he has to go thru KGET 17 via phone to talk to the public---now what am I going to do with all of this rotting fruit and vegtables....

Your congresswomen are also Babs Boxer and Diane Fienstien.  Maybe they will get on one of their sleek corporate jets and come down to Bakersfield and attempt to explain the crapfest of a healthcare "reform" package they are trying to jam down everyones throats.

But no.  They have more important things to do. Like demand the Pentagon buy 8 new corporate jets for them to use.....

Proam, just some constructive criticism, use the enter key every now and again. That was painful to read without paragraph breaks. It's the online equivalent of someone who talks a mile a minute; difficult to follow and more likely to be ignored not because of content but just because of readability.

As for the original topic at hand, if people start acting like a violent mob, they should be prepared to be treated that way. It's not like police and security forces are going to turn a blind eye if people start advocating violence. My cynical side says that's EXACTLY what some of these people want, to provoke a photo op confrontation with police so they can go off on some police state or police brutality conspiracy.

PP2:  I'm not going to be a plant at one of those townhall meetings.  Nope.  Not a radish, not a carrot, not a stalk of celery, nothing like that.  Nobody is planting me anywhere.  Yet.  When I'm ready to be planted 6 feet under, they can do so, but I'm not ready yet.  I'm just saying that I am going to be a normal little old granny with a couple of questions.  I'll even dress the way I do usually -- sloppily -- so I won't be accused of being well-dressed.  Sure sign of a plant, all right, if you're wearing decent clothing, have clean hair and nails and shoes.  Absolutely.  A right radical. 

It's true that I'm so angry about government in general that if I were younger, if I were male, I would probably be a little rowdy.  After all, we get very little respect or even attention from our lawmakers. 

However, not all of the dissatisfied electorate are planning to go to townhall meetings just for a You-Tube opportunity.  I'd really rather not, thanks anyway.  I just want to go and let them know there are real people "out there" -- people with legitimate questions. 

Oh how soon the left forgets things.  It was only a few years ago whenRepublican lawmakers had to put up with loud, interupting people opposed to Bush's Social Security reform initiative. 

By now, Jack Kingston is used to shouted questions, interruptions and boos.

Republican congressmen expect such responses these days when they meet with constituents about President Bush's proposal to overhaul Social Security.

Tinkering with the system is always controversial. To make Bush's plan even more so -- political foes are sending people to Social Security forums armed with hostile questions.    

The Democrats wrote the book on disrupting townhall meetings with constituents.  Here is another news report from the 2005 Bush Social Security reform initiative:

Santorum was among dozens of members of Congress who ran gantlets of demonstrators and shouted over hecklers at Social Security events last month. Many who showed up to protest were alerted by e-mails and bused in by anti-Bush organizations such as MoveOn.org and USAction, a liberal advocacy group. They came with prepared questions and instructions on how to confront lawmakers.

MoveOn, which campaigned against Bush's re-election and is now focused on defeating his Social Security proposals, has issued a guide for activists. It includes such tips as: "Ask pointed questions that put the representative or senator on record on important issues like benefit cuts, raising the retirement age and new debt necessary to pay for privatization." It also includes a section on "How to talk to a conservative about Social Security (if you must)." The group says it sent activists to 28 meetings.

Pryce says of such efforts: "It's 'Rabble Rousing 101.' " She contends that the groups gave their followers "everything but eggs to throw at us."    

The Democrats biggest problem now is that the tea party movement and the healthcare opposition really is grassroots.  

Shwaine, Have to admit, it could have, or should have been written with proper paragraph breaks. Hope I didn't cause anyone else as much pain as I did Shwaine. Pain?

proam, first of all, I'm not a Democrat.

I notice you seem to base your opinion on what you've heard rather than the reality of what's being proposed, and more importantly, what we all seem to want and need. You're talking about waiting for surgery. Wouldn't it be even better if you didn't have to worry about the financial consequences of that surgery? How much did it cost you?

We can make this work better for everybody, but not if people are unwilling to change things. Don't get me wrong, I'll probably not be satisfied by what congress and their special interest donors come up with. Does that mean we should just scrap the whole thing? Hell no.

Alicen, You seem like a pretty reasonable person. It's too bad you've blocked me from commenting on your blogs.

I highly doubt any CREDIBLE person said to bring a gun to a townhall meeting

however...with the brownshirts out in force to attempt to violently shout down opposition to the healthcare bill, i would bring my gun, legal and all, even with a CCW, for my own personal safety

I dont see a problem with people exercising their right to free speech, and to protest.  all they want is for our legislators to read and understand what they are about to burden the taxpayers with

I kinda like the way healthcare is now, run through the employer....kinda motivates people to get a job, dontcha think?

PP2:  Maybe we're both mellowing somewhat.  I'll tell you what.  I'll make a deal with you.  You tell me you will make an honest effort not to deliberately and knowingly insult me, and you can comment on my blogs till the cows come home. 

I do not mind honest disagreement; I do, however, take exception to being called names or being insulted, particularly on my own blog.  I'm sure you understand. 

I have never knowingly insulted you or attempted to insult you on your blogs; as far as I remember I have made an attempt to be polite.  That's all I ask in return. 

I will, however, relatiate in kind when provoked.  I'm sure you understand that, too.  When that becomes necessary, you're back on my list.  I despise being provoked into a like attack. 

I shall wait to hear next from you. 

Alicen, you've got a deal.   Peace. Or close to it anyway.  ; )

learnem,

 "with the brownshirts out in force to attempt to violently shout down opposition to the healthcare bill, i would bring my gun, legal and all, even with a CCW, for my own personal safety"

I'm assuming by brownshirts you're referring to either democrats or liberals or something? Sorry, but they aren't the ones trying to stifle this debate. People like you don't want the for-profit medical industry to change. You wouldn't be in any danger at a town hall meeting, unless some anti-liberal crazy started shooting up the place. They like their guns and they hate the libruls. Of course liberal vs conservative should have nothing to do with this discussion. We all need health care.

"I kinda like the way healthcare is now, run through the employer....kinda motivates people to get a job, dontcha think?"

Not in the slightest. I have a full time job, and my small business employer can't afford to cover me. Is my employer to blame or my chosen profession? It used to be offered, but the premiums kept going up until it was costing too much to keep. I'm not alone. This has happened to lots of small businesses and millions of Americans. Not everyone can work for the government and get the really great benefits. I find it funny that you work for the government (socialized school system), but complain about government run healthcare.

PP2:  Deal.  

Now:  what do you prefer to be called?  I'll call you that.  I prefer to be called just what you called me:  Alicen.  

Now I'm going to do whatever's necessary to get you off my "list"; and by golly, I expect a comment!  (JK) 

To those who may be reading this and wondering if it's really true, you'll not know unless PP2 comments. 

And to others of you who may be reading this in disbelief, well, see, miracles do happen!

Pete, ever since watching Firefly/Serenity, the term brownshirt or browncoat has a different meaning to me, heh. But the classical definition is usually a reference to the Nazi stormtroopers.

It doesn't matter what you call me. It's not like it's my real name anyway.

OK, Pete.  I like that better than other names you might have been called (sometimes even by me).

(By the way, is this truce going to ruin your reputation?)