First off, people need to stop treating the growing homeless folks as garbage and recognize that most of these citizens need help. We need far more hospitals to treat the mentally ill. We need more housing for lower income people. We need better public transportation to allow people real choices for their commutes. We need to recognize that education is important, and that kids to need to stay in school. Our current education system  is at the point of breaking down.  Kids are smart, even the dropouts. They realize at an early age  the economics  don't work for good poor students, only exceptionally bright poor students in America. The costs to gain a college degree, and an advanced college degree is beyond the means of most of the population today. The bright kids, the rebellious kids, the no-account kids all quit  because  they realize  they have no real chance given their parents  economic standing to succeed. Why not set up a system like many Eurpean countries have done where all education costs are paid for by the public. All a student needs to gain any degree is the ability to pass the entrance examinations.  Those who cannot pass the college exams will automatically go to trade schools for meaningful occupations that require less demanding scholastic rigors, but challenging course work for health care, child care, mechanics, construction and so on. We are no longer an egalitarian society. Horatio Alger died a long time ago.

 This is such a sad story. These little thugs really need to be hunted down and brought to justice.

I usually don't do this, but what the hey.

First off, people need to stop treating the growing homeless folks as garbage and recognize that most of these citizens need help.

Done. Then we see perfectly healthy people who prefer not to work taking handouts and we get mad and withdraw our sympathy.

We need far more hospitals to treat the mentally ill.

And really assess what it means to be mentally ill.

We need more housing for lower income people. We need better public transportation to allow people real choices for their commutes.

Agreed. Just not in my neighborhood.

We need to recognize that education is important, and that kids to need to stay in school. Our current education system  is at the point of breaking down. 

 I think all adults recognize it. Many cultures put little value in it. Better for the kids to quit school and start working at 14.

Kids are smart, even the dropouts.

 Nope they are idiots for the most part and utter slaves to their whims.

They realize at an early age  the economics  don't work for good poor students, only exceptionally bright poor students in America. The costs to gain a college degree, and an advanced college degree is beyond the means of most of the population today.

Untrue. You just can't easily pay for college and have a really nice car. I went to school on student loans and working my butt off. Anyone can if they are willing to sacrifice.

The bright kids, the rebellious kids, the no-account kids all quit  because  they realize  they have no real chance given their parents  economic standing to succeed. Why not set up a system like many Eurpean countries have done where all education costs are paid for by the public.

Because the education would be worth less. You have to sacrifice for it to mean anything.

All a student needs to gain any degree is the ability to pass the entrance examinations. 

Have you seen the lawsuits and uproar about the high school exit exam? And that exam is super easy.

Those who cannot pass the college exams will automatically go to trade schools for meaningful occupations that require less demanding scholastic rigors, but challenging course work for health care, child care, mechanics, construction and so on. We are no longer an egalitarian society. Horatio Alger died a long time ago.

I'll do you one better. Start students who don't want to set their sites on college in trade programs in high school (already happens in many). You spend two years of high school working on the state standards, then a third year spending half the day in a trade program. When you are a senior, you are an apprentice. When you graduate, you are ready to work. If you change your mind and want to go to college, it will always be there.

ya dream on.....maybe in a perfect world.

I had a post all ready to go but Witbee summed it up as well as I could have.  I will emphasize one thing though.  Kids have to WANT education.  Just because it would be free doesn't mean they'd go or we wouldn't have the dropout rate we now have.  

No money for college?  Again, Witbee nailed it.  

My grandson had NO money for college,  and yet he graduated in four years.  He got a scholarship, grants, and student loans.  He also worked part time.     They have to WANT education and just giving it to them at no cost won't  make them go.  High school is free and we can't even keep them there.

(Keep repeating that until everyone understands it.)

I was a part of the first year of the exit exams and yes... it was really easy.  I could have passed it in Jr. High just as easy.  And I would be really mad if people got to just go to college for free and if they didn't want to well they could just go to trade school so they can still get good jobs.  I don't think lazy people deserve to have the same jobs as someone who works hard.  I came from a family that made too much money for me to get financial aide and not enough to pay for me to go to college.   So I work full time and go to school at night so that I can make something of myself and I work hard to do so.   But anyway... education is only a small part in teaching our children "Oh hey, by the way, your not supposed to kill people."  That's the only way it will happen is one person at a time.  They have to be brough up to have respect for other people.  Usually kids are imitations of their parents.

Well, Witbee..

Done. Then we see perfectly healthy people who prefer not to work taking handouts and we get mad and withdraw our sympathy. And really assess what it means to be mentally ill.

Funny.. I have a feeling that you wouldn't know what a mental illness is if it hit you in the face.  About 1 out of every 4 people who are homeless are estimated to have a mental illness.  The current mental health system in this country is completely out of whack, and therefore those who have a mental illness that also live in a low-income household are at a far greater risk of being homeless.  It's not that most of these people need to be institutionalized - they just need a little extra help and direction, and among everything else, a support system of family and friends.  Sadly, many who have mental illness, both homeless and non-homeless, do not have a good support system, and therefore have a much more difficult time dealing with their illness.

I suggest you read up on the subject before making such an assinine comment:

http://www.nationalhomeless...

http://www.nrchmi.samhsa.go...

http://www.nami.org/Hometem...

Agreed. Just not in my neighborhood.

It's that very attitude that fuels the battle between the classes.

 I think all adults recognize it. Many cultures put little value in it. Better for the kids to quit school and start working at 14.

Wow.. are you serious? I don't think you realize that without a High School diploma, it's becoming more difficult for people to obtain a decent paying job.  With the technological explosion, most employers have no choice but to hire those who have experience with computers and other technology.  The equivalent to an 8th grade education isn't going to cut it. In order to even be a mechanic (actually, call them mechanics and many will be offended.. the new term is "technician") these days, one must learn the computer systems which have replaced moving parts.  So unless you want all these "kids" to be flipping burgers and having very little contribution to American Society, I suggest you change your opinion on this subject.

 Nope they are idiots for the most part and utter slaves to their whims.

If they are idiots, it's because American Pop Culture has brainwashed them.  IF we as a Nation were to put more emphasis on family values, the Arts and education, they would not be idiots.

Because the education would be worth less. You have to sacrifice for it to mean anything.

I agree with you to a point.  However, as I stated above, more and more employers are relying on an educated individual to perform the tasks required to get the job done.

I'll do you one better. Start students who don't want to set their sites on college in trade programs in high school (already happens in many). You spend two years of high school working on the state standards, then a third year spending half the day in a trade program. When you are a senior, you are an apprentice. When you graduate, you are ready to work. If you change your mind and want to go to college, it will always be there.

There's absolutely no reason to force such an important educational decision at such an early age.  Example: 1 in 4 college freshman drop out of college.  Why?  As a society, we push our youth to such extremes, and expect them to make big decisions before they're ready for them.  I graduated with my BA in 2005 in 4 years, as one would expect.  However, I have numerous friends who I know are much more intelligent than myself who have yet to obtain their degree.  Many completely gave up and are now waiting tables.  Others realized that to put a constraint of time on them for getting an education was not working, so they're taking classes on their own schedule instead.  Education is different to each individual.  Some people, like one of my best friends, can obtain a 4-year degree in half the time.  One of my best friends is 25, and already an Assistant DA in Philly.  He's extremely ambitious and his hard work is now rewarding him.   I'm proud of him, but realize that not everyone has that kind of energy. 

So, instead of setting a time table in which our youth should either be educated or get kicked to the curb, I think we should focus on the fundamentals.  Our government believes that test scores will raise the educational level of this country, and the government is dead wrong.  Instead of spending quality time teaching, our scholars are forced to prepare students to crams as much knowledge into their brains in a short amount of time, knowing full and well that as soon as the exam is over, that knowledge will leave their young minds forever.   We teach a distorted and dry version of History, Geography and Politics that puts almost anyone to sleep, and then we wonder why the average American cannot point to Iran on the map? No.. High School should be spent challenging young minds to explore the world around them.  Instead of emphasizing the need to get into a good college, we should be emphasizing the need to have a good grasp of the basic ideals and fundamentals of the human species - who we are, what we do, why we do it, when we did it, and how. 

One thing's for certain - when I have my children, I'm not going to distort the truth or fabricate stories.  I'm not going to forcefeed them the B.S. propoganda that so many parents wind up partaking in.  My children will be educated because I will have taught them the importance of always questioning the environment they live in.

High school education is not going to solve these issues since they go way beyond the classroom and started way before high school. I have no solutions to offer however.

Shwaine - good point, it has nothing to do with the classroom.

What it does have to do with is parenting, or lack thereof.

FSG,

We live in a pop culture, that does not mean it has to be valueless and meaningless. We cannot continue to look down on those that disagree with us, or fail to do our bidding, as though they were worthless and stupid. Just because we all can make a stupid mistake does not mean we are all stupid. Kids are that way, they make mistakes but they act out from what they have experienced. If violence and contempt for other people and for themselves are what they learn, and repeatedly witness, does anyone expect them to be much different than their surrounding criteria of existence? Only a fool would expect different results. The homeless man killed was just another example of looking down through our caste system on someone thought to be less valuable than those malicious violent instigators. They simply took out their anger on someone more helpless than themselves. Happens every day, and just happened here a couple of weeks back.

I believe we owe it to ourselves to try and find a solution to the growing economic disparity that grips the US, and that continues to foster higher levels of violence. After a long period of decline, violence these past several years has been on the rise and it is no coincidence that failing schools, failing jobs with lower wages, and failing credit are big parts of the anger and hostility.

I believe the European model offers a much better opportunity for a greater portion of the gene pool to succeed in today. Our citizens are incapable today of solving one problem. Too many people refuse to compromise for the greater good, even just a little bit. They prefer scapegoats to solutions.

Adam, just so you know, the European model doesn't work for everyone. There are still drop-outs from their system. I've gamed online with several Swedes who did just that. Opportunities, no matter how many or how cheap (free) they are, will not make up for lack of motivation or lack of interest.

We live in a pop culture, that does not mean it has to be valueless and meaningless.

Unfortunately it has becoming meaningless.  I think it is a shame that our culture puts more value on what celebrities are doing every waking minute of the day than on what's happening in their own neighborhoods, much less the rest of the world. 

Kids are that way, they make mistakes but they act out from what they have experienced.

They also act out from what they've seen.

If violence and contempt for other people and for themselves are what they learn, and repeatedly witness, does anyone expect them to be much different than their surrounding criteria of existence? Only a fool would expect different results. The homeless man killed was just another example of looking down through our caste system on someone thought to be less valuable than those malicious violent instigators. They simply took out their anger on someone more helpless than themselves. Happens every day, and just happened here a couple of weeks back.

You hit the nail firmly on the head.

I believe we owe it to ourselves to try and find a solution to the growing economic disparity that grips the US, and that continues to foster higher levels of violence. After a long period of decline, violence these past several years has been on the rise and it is no coincidence that failing schools, failing jobs with lower wages, and failing credit are big parts of the anger and hostility.

Another good point, though I'd take it a step further and say that it's not just about economics, but also about societal emphasis on what it defines as "success".

I believe the European model offers a much better opportunity for a greater portion of the gene pool to succeed in today. Our citizens are incapable today of solving one problem. Too many people refuse to compromise for the greater good, even just a little bit. They prefer scapegoats to solutions.

Agreed.

One out of four is estimated to have a mental illness?  What about the other three out of four?

Nancy - I'm sure you know that there are many reasons for homelessness: physical or mental abuse, unemployment, drug or alcohol abuse, etc.

FSG, I know you're relatively new here so you missed the battles we've had before on this topic.  My son works out of the UP depot and is around these people all the time.  Even he says all they want is to be left alone.  They don't want a job.  They don't want people telling them what to do and when.  They don't want someone making them pray just to get a meal and a cot.  They don't want to go by any rules other than their own.

Nancy, I think that's a pretty wide generalization for such a large population of people.  Also, could it be possible that some of those your son comes into contact with are in the 25% group who are affected by mental illness?  Most people who have a mental illness do not want to succumb to it, however, without the proper medication and professional support and guidance, they cannot sustain themselves.

The same could be said for the drug addicts and alcoholics.  Do you think that deep down they want to be slave to addiction?  These people need our support, not our snubs.

FSG, yes, definitely some in the are mentioned have mental problems.  Unfortunately you can't lock people up because you believe they are mentally deficient.  So what's the answer?  You can't force people into treatment for mental illness any more than you can force people into substance abuse treatment.  (without incentives that is.)   Is the answer to round them all up and put them in homes?  I don't know what your experience is with homeless, addicts, or people with mental deficiencies but it's not all so cut and dried.  People have a right to live the way they want to whether or not WE think it's good for them.  There are times when I think it might not be so bad to chuck it all and go live under the bridge.  Trouble with me is that I'm too used to my creature comforts.  I'm willing to do what I'm told within my profession to have a house and utilities.  Some of the homeless people aren't willing to do that.

Well, Nancy.. it just so happens that I know quite a bit about mental illness, and I come in contact with it on a daily basis. 

First and foremost, just because someone has a mental illness does not mean they are "deficient."  Most people who suffer from mental illness are extremely intelligent.  With the right medication and professional guidance, most can hold jobs and even live on their own.  The problem, once again, is that the current medical system and laws do not do enough for those suffering from mental illness.  One big issue, which you've brought up is that the current laws support the idea that adults can make their own decisions.  I can tell you, as a witness to someone who has a mental illness, there are specific times when someone can NOT make a rational decision for the benefit of their well being.  We must be willing make laws which take circumstance into context, because these issues are not black and white.  If someone is in the middle of a mental breakdown, whether it be dillusions, depression, anxiety, mania, psychosis, etc.., they are not in a stable mindset and in many cases, are not in touch with reality.  They don't neccisarily know what's in their best interest at that point in time. Left untreated, these symptoms can become worse. 

I'd be willing to wager that the majority of those who suffer from a mental illness and also suffer from homelessness probably do not have familial support, nor do they have the full support of the system itself.