What Roy and other conservatives fail to understand is that Bush's $1.6 TRILLION in deficit spending is a tax.

Not only does the principal have to be paid back, but the tens of BILLIONS in interest payments A YEAR on the deficit has to get paid out. That amounts to another tax.

And who is responsible for paying it all back?

We are.

And who is getting a large chuck of those payments?

China.

Way to go, George!

"It also likely means increasing the tax on capital gains from the current 15 percent to at least 20 percent and probably to the 30 percent level backed by most liberals. Some even believe she may eliminate capital gains taxation entirely and tax it at the same rate as ordinary income."

Hi Roy,

I think capital gains should be taxed harder than ordinary income.

Capital gains, simply put, is the lazy man's millions.  It's money made without lifting one damn finger of work to get it.

Why should people who earn money the old-fashioned way -- working for it -- be taxed more heavily on it than people who rake in the lazy money?

What kind of message does that send about the "conservative" work ethic?

It sends a message that working is the worst way to make money!

It's also another way to cheat the honest middle class when you realize that the capital gains earned under one's 401(k) or IRA are taxed as ordinary income when it is finally withdrawn.  Working people who invest for their retirements are not benefiting.

The current capital gains tax is nothing more than an unjust, unfair perk to the makers of lazy money.

Wars are not cheap

Simplistic thinking is

LT benefits of war is geopolitical so won't wast keystrokes explaining to those who thought it was a great time to buy RE a month ago!

Roy, quick question: if a politician decides to let Bush's tax breaks expire (as they are scheduled to do with no further actions), do you consider that a "tax hike"? Did that politican actively raise taxes? ~mattloch

If you are trying to go under a bridge and your mast it too high, does it matter if they raise the bridge or lower the river?

Hmmmm.......?

For asking such a prosaic question I felt it deserved a "planning" type analogy

Thats ridiculous hardliner

Investment dollars are the engine that makes the economy go

no wonder you never heard of John Galt

Do you not have investments? Spent your OI discretionary income during your working years or what?

Now you want to penalize those of us that sweated and saved and now have something?

Nice!

"Now you want to penalize those of us that sweated and saved and now have something?"

Read it again.  I want to reward the people who sweat and save.

I want to level the playing field against people who make money without lifting a damn finger to get it.

Didja catch my paragraph about "capital gains" by people who worked and saved?

"It's also another way to cheat the honest middle class when you realize that the capital gains earned under one's 401(k) or IRA are taxed as ordinary income when it is finally withdrawn.  Working people who invest for their retirements are not benefiting."

"Do you not have investments? Spent your OI discretionary income during your working years or what?"

Yes, I do, and thanks to the unjust tax code that I'm speaking out against, my capital gains will be taxed as ordinary income.

Let me add that if we taxed capital gains as we should, that would leave the hard-working folk more discretionary income to invest.

Nobody's saying that making money by investing shouldn't be allowed.  It should only be taxed in accordance with an affirmative work ethic -- i.e. earned wages should be taxed at most equally, if not less.

I'm all for reduced taxes on OI as well as Sch D.

Sec 179, ITC's, incr bus exp's Sch's C & F, Misc Ded's fully ded, etc.

BTW RF, thats a pretty good one

Ulitmately I just "shrugged" it off though.....................

Orange Jew glad I didn't say Rynd 'Em Factor ial?  derivation of quadratic formula (from 10th grade) required

OK, figure that one out

Real estate is a good example, though.

Nancy's example could be handled by indexing, but a better example happens to be local news right now.

The best example of greedy people making lazy money are the speculators who drove up our prices in the first place.  They buy homes in hopes of selling them a year later, walking away with tens of thousands -- even a hundred thousand -- dollars without doing one damn bit of work for it.

Why should the tax code reward this behavior and (comparatively) punish the hard working American?

you better watch loving puns btw

puts you in a "class" you might not want to occupy

(I love puns -- maybe start a thread......)

Puns are the lowest form of wit.  Except for all the others...

Real estate is a good example, though ~h4f

Its only a good example to you because it is familiar to most as an investment vehicle. I forgot Sch E btw

if you bought equipment (ITC) feed, supplies, repairs (Sch F)

or made major repairs "capital" type  (Sec 179) you might feel differently

I'm open to accommodations or reconsideration in certain areas.  It might even be worth our while for our tax laws to differentiate between what you describe and what I describe.  ('Course, there comes a bit more complexity in an already complex tax code.)

I can hear the arguments for replacing income tax with a national sales tax already.  I realize that most liberals are dead set against it, but it's something that I'd have to think on more before rendering an opinion.

Since we're talking taxes here, what about the Alternative Minimum Tax?  This monster, when devised back in the late 1960's wasn't indexed, and now millions of taxpayers are getting hit with it; some will even be surprised when they get hit with it. 

Nat Sales Tax would:

1) Kill "undergound cash economy"  (drugs and all other illegal activities that require laundering of $$) This is mucho billions probably into the T word in magnitude.

2) Re-Structure timing of purchases by major consumers. Economy would adjust however

3) Shift tax collection burden to Vendors. I lived under a system like this. "float" was used by collecting cos. to finance operations. I had at least 3 to 3.5 mos worth (qrtly payms) to utilize VAT payms to finance my own purchases of product

4) less "social engineering through tax code" (until Lefties get ahold of it and start making "exceptions" on what is taxed of course)

Good one color9

I HATE AMT!

It is the bane of tax code for some of us!

Chico we agree...I hate the AMT also, since it is no longer targetting the econcomic group it was set up for. This tax needs to be over hauled and indexed to inflation to prevent the middle class from being hit by it.

But, I doubt the AMT will go away or be adjusted. The money from the AMT tax will be used to pay towards the Trillions of dollars in debt that bush & the GOP has given us.

yeah TomW

sorry, wrong guy. I do my own taxes for all our businesses and and have paid from a low of 5% to a high of 12% during Bush's "regime"

And thats actual not est incl penalties, int, etc.

Bush has been good for those of us who have Sch C's, D's, E's, and F's...........

AMT has hurt some but with enough deductions to bring AGI down sufficiently, it hasn't been too bad.

This will all change under her thighness

Now just what don't you think I understand about taxes my man?

Of course I would prefer even more Sec 179's and bringing back ITC's but you can't have everything. MACRS has been good too. Hillarious will change all that.

Now please TomW, tell me what I haven't "tumbled to" as far as my tax burden under Bush?