Just reading about this case over at CNN. An 88 year old person should have better sense. My thoughts go to the guard and his family.

A travesty.

Von Brunn served six years in prison on federal attempted kidnapping, assault and firearms charges after what he called a citizen's "legal, nonviolent citizens arrest" of members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors.

On his Web site, "Holy Western Empire," von Brunn said he was "convicted by a Negro jury, Jew/Negro attorneys, and sentenced to prison for eleven years by a Jew judge."

"He is in our files going back way into the 1980s," said Heidi Beirich, a researcher for the Montgomery, Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center.

"He has extremely long history with neo-Nazis and white supremacists. He's written extremely incendiary publications, raging about Jews, blacks and the like."

Von Brunn's Web site states he served as a Navy officer during World War II. But by the late 1970s, Beirich told CNN, he had become a "hardcore neo-Nazi" and an associate of William Pierce -- the white supremacist leader whose 1978 book, "The Turner Diaries," is credited with inspiring Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh.

The suspect's site proclaims itself "a new, hard-hitting exposé of the Jew conspiracy to destroy the white gene-pool."

 http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRI...

They are now reporting the guard has died.

Ah, but we all know that the right-wingers are the only ones with any sense.

Well this nut has jumped that shark! 

""A posting attributed to von Brunn on another Web site, antichrist.net, calls both Christianity and the Holocaust "hoaxes."

"'Christianity' destroyed Roman Civilization. The 'Holocaust' religion is destroying Western civilization. The Aryan gene-pool dies, 'unwept, unhonored and unsung,'" the item states.""

calls both Christianity and the Holocaust "hoaxes."

Apparently Obama's speech in the Middle East wasn't just directed at Iran's president.

Too true..

O/T but I know you'll bear with me:Terry Jones has an excellent series about Barbarians over at netfix. I knew I'd rather be a Celtic Barbarian woman than a Roman wife.

The reasons why Rome fell,while multifaceted, can be attributed to the fact they had no mathematicians and stole all they had from others,then called them "Barbarians".

Terry Jones has an excellent series about Barbarians

Just added to my queue. Thanks for the recommendation.

It never made any sense to me how someone could deny something that is so well documented as the Holocaust.

Witch Hunt was taken off of short wait and I'm getting it tomorrow.

So if this guy is representing the entire scope of people mentioned in the DHS reports, including returning vets, and showing how correct that list is, I wonder...is the Muslim convert who shot and killed one young Private and wounded another a representative for the entire Muslim world? 

Don't you think it's silly to take one person's act and turn it into a representation of an entire group of people?  Seems like stereotyping to me.  As a conservative and the fiance of a military vet, I am offended that you can say this man is proof the DHS memos are valid.  It's just like the left to blame everyone else.  Tiller gets killed, blame the anti-abortion group.  Two military men shot at, one killed, by Muslim convert, no one says anything.  If society is going to generalize and stereotype, why not apply it to everyone?  Seems fair. 

Don't you think it's silly to take one person's act

In case you haven't noticed, it's been more than one person's act.

I am offended that you can say this man is proof the DHS memos are valid

Have you read the report, especially what it says about returning veterans? It sure doesn't seem so based upon your post.

Religious extremists are also in the report.

Two military men shot at, one killed, by Muslim convert, no one says anything

That lie again.  Another conservative made that same claim and was buried under an avalanche of evidence proving contrary.

Very well said wndrwoman27. I don't guess there are left wing extremist.

I don't guess there are left wing extremist

Sure there are. Or more precise, were.

Just don't confuse them with Liberals.

A heavily criticized Department of Homeland Security Report on right-wing extremism that was released in April warned precisely of the type of violent anti-Semitic activity that occurred at the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C. on Wednesday.

James W. Von Brunn, according to reports, has a history of anti-Semitism and may have been driven by such feelings when he committed his violent act. Indeed, Von Brunn even had anti-Semitic writings on his web site, and had made pejorative remarks about Jewish control of the Justice system.

Anti-Semitic extremists attribute these losses to a deliberate conspiracy conducted by a cable of Jewish 'financial elites,'" the report read. "These 'accusatory' tactics are employed to draw new recruits into right-wing extremist groups and further radicalize those already subscribing to extremist beliefs."

When the 10-page DHS memorandum was made public, however, warnings like these largely took the back seat to charges that the department had been politically motivated in its assessments and writings. Indeed, a wide swath of voices in the conservative movement -- from Rush Limbaugh to RNC Chairman Michael Steele -- lashed out at DHS Secretary Napolitano over what they deemed an anti-Republican report.

 "Rightwing extremism in the United States can be broadly divided into those groups, movements, and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups), and those that are mainly anti-government, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely," the DHS report reads. "It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."

Funny, those on the left fail to list their "extremism" cases because they do not believe any exist.  Here's some:

Charles Manson and the Manson family , Symbionise Liberation Army, Weather Underground, Earth Liberation Front, PETA, Black Panthers, Code Pink - and this is just s few.

Several of these groups murdered scores of Americans, kidnaped many more, destroyed lives and property and harassed and stalked anyone they desired.  Yet, the government is only able now to highlight potential 'right-wing' cases without shining the light of truth on left-wing terrorism.  

Since the originator of this post demands that the 'right' claim ownership of the crimes committed at the DC Holocaust Memorial, I hereby demand that TSM and the American left pay penance for, and accept ownership of, the crimes of Charles Manson, Bill Ayers and the Symbionise Liberation Army.

Denying that beyond extreme right wingers exist is the height of lunacy~ and very dangerous as todays tragic news shows. Thank goodness that the SPLC and others keep track of these loonies for us.

Charles Manson and the Manson family , Symbionise Liberation Army, Weather Underground, Earth Liberation Front, PETA, Black Panthers, Code Pink - and this is just s few.

None of which were Liberal.

Code Pink?  Are you out of your damned mind?  LOL!

But your confusion is understandable, considering how conservatives believe socialists and communists can co-exist in the same system.

I guess I confuse left wing liberals with statists. :)

LOL @ were.

The guy's also upset that a non-Aryan is President and refuses to show his birth certificate.

Mostly the non-Aryan thing, of course.    But he seems to be an equal-opportunity hater.  Even hates the Christians (guess that will be ignored by his fans at LGF).

Also thinks the news media are left-wing and controlled.

Anti-immigrant.

Tried to "arrest" the Federal Reserve Board.

Thinks there's an international one-world-government conspiracy.

He's a living showcase of right-wing nuttery. 

TSM  But your confusion is understandable, considering how conservatives believe socialists and communists can co-exist in the same system.

hahah Sorry but you sure have that one backwards..you sound like the lunatic that the article was written about..Like you libbys *LOVE* to say..you cant blame one nut job on a whole party..opps sorry I used one of your excuses..my bad???

But your confusion is understandable, considering how conservatives believe socialists and communists can co-exist in the same system. 

Your right they can't co-exist because they are pretty much the same.

Socialist :

Communism :

He's a living showcase of right-wing nuttery

We have our own showcase of that here in the blogs.

Tkozy has put up some of his "thoughts"~ and I am being liberal using that term~ on his post. Apparently Pax sited this nut as a source. If you can not see that this guy is a crazy person...well you ....*nothing nice to say so I'll shut up"

they can't co-exist because they are pretty much the same

Don't know where you got your definitions, but they're not accurate.  I'm guessing you used Wikipedia.

Apparently Pax sited this nut as a source

Now why isn't that a surprise?

Ah, I love these types of  "debate."

Don't you think it's silly to take one person's act

In case you haven't noticed, it's been more than one person's act.

***In case I haven't noticed?  I can say I have noticed that more acts of violence are committed by more types of people now than ever, it seems.  It also seems that the liberal media pounces on any chance it has to try to tie this individual to the right, without any regard to how just because he SAYS he is a member of the right, that doesn't mean he represents ALL members of the right.  An extremist is an extremist, regardless of their race, political beliefs, gender, nationality, etc.  Do I take the Muslim extremists who destroyed the World Trade Center, have beheaded people on video, have committed various acts of TERROSISM as a representative of the entire Muslim community?  No.  Is the man who shot Tiller a representative of the pro-life movement?  No.  Is the man who shot those soldiers a representative of the Muslim convert community?  No.  So why are the acts of this ONE person seen as a reflection of the right?  And please, note any other acts that have been committed by any other persons who validate your theory.

I am offended that you can say this man is proof the DHS memos are valid

Have you read the report, especially what it says about returning veterans? It sure doesn't seem so based upon your post.

Religious extremists are also in the report.

***I love it when people can determine what I have read and what I haven't read based on one sentence in a post.  Yes, I have read the document and I also can realize that because of our obvious difference in political beliefs, we can both read the same thing and come to different conclusions.  For the record, if my conclusions were that far gone, the American Legion would not have issued this:

April 13, 2009

Dear Secretary Napolitano,

On behalf of the 2.6 million-member American Legion, I am stating my concern about your April 7 report, “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence and Recruitment.”

First, I want to assure you that The American Legion has long shared your concern about white supremacist and anti-government groups. In 1923, when the Ku Klux Klan still yielded unspeakable influence in this country, The American Legion passed Resolution 407. It resolved, in part, that “ ... we consider any individual, group of individuals or organizations, which creates, or fosters racial, religious or class strife among our people, or which takes into their own hands the enforcement of law, determination of guilt, or infliction of punishment, to be un-American, a menace to our liberties, and destructive to our fundamental law ....” The best that I can say about your recent report is that it is incomplete. The report states, without any statistical evidence, “The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks.”

The American Legion is well aware and horrified at the pain inflicted during the Oklahoma City bombing, but Timothy McVeigh (mentioned in the Homeland Security report) was only one of more than 42 million veterans who have worn this nation’s uniform during wartime. To continue to use McVeigh as an example of the stereotypical “disgruntled military veteran” is as unfair as using Osama bin Laden as the sole example of Islam.

Your report states that “rightwing extremists were concerned during the 1990s with the perception that illegal immigrants were taking away American jobs through their willingness to work at significantly lower wages.” Secretary Napolitano, this is more than a perception to those who have lost their jobs. Would you categorize union members as “right-wing extremists”? In spite of this incomplete, and, I fear, politically biased report, The American Legion and the Department of Homeland Security share many common and crucial interests, such as the Citizen Corps and disaster preparedness. Since you are a graduate of New Mexico Girls State, I trust that you are very familiar with The American Legion. I would be happy to meet with you at a time of mutual convenience to discuss issues such as border security and the war on terrorism. I think it is important for all of us to remember that Americans are not the enemy. The terrorists are.

Or received this APOLOGY from Janet herself:

Homeland Security chief apologizes to veterans

Two military men shot at, one killed, by Muslim convert, no one says anything

That lie again.  Another conservative made that same claim and was buried under an avalanche of evidence proving contrary.

Prove it with cites from anything other than left wing sites, please.

Oh, and sagefever?

"Denying that beyond extreme right wingers exist is the height of lunacy~ and very dangerous as todays tragic news shows."

I would say that denying that beyond extreme LEFT wingers exist is the height of lunacy and very dangerous as today's tragic news shows, right?  Or is it only the right than can have extremists?  If it is, why is it that the left is not capable of having extremists?

Two days before what would have been Ann Franks 80th birthday~ this nut job says Frank was a hoax too~ a good decent man is shot dead protecting the public.

WE should ALL back off politicizing this tragedy. All of us.

"There are no words to express our grief and shock over these events. He served on the Museum's security staff for six years. Our thoughts and prayers go out to Officer Johns' family," the statement said. "We have made the decision to close the Museum tomorrow in honor of Officer Johns, and our flags will be flown at half mast in his memory."

Putting words into the mouths of others is foolhardy.

Sagefever,

That is the smartest thing I have read today.  I think the willingness to politicize any tragedy such as this one, or any other, just feeds into the animosity that many people feel when discussing politics.  Thank you for your wise thoughts and I know my thoughts and prayers are with the family of the guard who was taken in this tragic and senseless act by someone who was obviously a madman.

Thank you for reminding me of what's important, it's easy to forget.

Sagefever, I didn't put words in your mouth.  I just took what you said and applied it to the other side.  Why is that wrong?  Is it unfair to believe that extremist behavior can be seen in both the right and the left?  If not, why?

Why do people use the term "anti immigrant" when someone is referring to illegals?  No one I know is opposed to immigration done legally.

As for left will extremists not being compared to Liberals then I submit that right wing extremists not be compared to conservatives.

There are extremists, radicals and the like of all kinds ...they cross all party lines and, in fact, rarely are in line with party lines. 
Careful about throwing all those stones when you live in a glass house.

Nancy,

Eloquently put, as always.  If it was admitted the left had extremists, they wouldn't be able to judge conservatives so harshly for the behavior of so called "right wing extremists."  Then where would all that moral superiority go? 

"None of which were Liberal."

Really?  Manson and Bill Ayers?  No, they were 'radically' liberal and one of them is Obama's good friend

"Code Pink?  Are you out of your damned mind?  LOL!"

No, bucko, I'm not.  Code Pink is a left-wing, anti-war protest group.  Sorry if you can't understand.

You libs crack me up.  You foment anti-war, anti-government, anti-establishment protestations, but when some go off the rails and start killing you act like you just can't figure out what happened.  The 1960's birthed many leftist groups that turned violent and are still with us today.  Put your silly hypocrisy aside and start paying attention.  

Don't know where you got your definitions, but they're not accurate. 

 I happened to use a dictionary named http://www.merriam-webster....

I don't guess they know their definitions. And to think they publish a dictionary.

Naturally there are nut jobs on all sides~ the point is so moot as to be laughable.

Savvydude,

But those violent Black Panthers just wanted to be treated equally!  =-)

 Rwestfall:

I mean really, who do those Merriam Webster people think they are, publishing definitions and all?  Hehe

 Why do people use the term "anti immigrant" when someone is referring to illegals? 

Because what they're *ACTUALLY* "anti-" is generally "brown people."    And such people refer to "illegals" when those people they're targeting, 99 percent of the time, have broken no criminal laws.

.

As for left will extremists not being compared to Liberals then I submit that right wing extremists not be compared to conservatives.

I'm sure as heck going to object to citing 30-year-old crime gangs (SLA) as "left wing" as a counterpart to the Operation Rescue thugs currently cheering the murder of St. Tiller.

Get back to me when "animal rights" have a plank in the Democratic Party platform and I'll let you equate the PETA nuts to the liberal cause the way the anti-abortion groups are attached to the right.   Show me one violent act by Code Pink to counterbalance the violent rhetoric of the teabaggers and Palin's Posse.

wndrwoman27,

I couldn't help but remember a video clip posted on a blog here just a few days ago.  Granted, the blog title was a bit over the top, but the clip was pretty exhaustive in debunking Fox News claim that no one besides them reported much about the shootings at the recruiting station.

The Californian blog entry with the video clip is here.

Rick Sanchez from CNN shows example after example of how Fox News is not correct, and that they had extensive coverage of the shootings.  CNN's coverage is pretty horrible in many cases, but they did cover that story.

But those violent Black Panthers just wanted to be treated equally! 

Yes, they did.  Thirty years ago.  Isn't it about time that happened?   

.

Rwestfall, you've made a common mistake regarding dictionaries.  They don't tell you what words mean.  They tell you how folks are currently using those words.  If people consistently misuse a word--as using "communist" when they mean "socialist"--dictionaries will dutifully report them the same.

The key difference between them:  Socialism focuses on the "means of production" (factories, rails, etc.) and Communism on all facets of life.

Example of Socialism:  Sweden.

Example of Communism:  Early Christianity.

Show me one violent act by Code Pink

There isn't any, but once a conservative gets on a roll it's hard to stop them.

Think of OxyRush's tirades, for example.

Here's a nutshell distinction between the two:

From each according to his ability, to each according to his deeds (socialism).
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs (communism).

http://www.marxmail.org/faq...

Why do CONservatives hate America?

RF,

One point with regard to illegals. As far as I am concerned the term Illegals include all non documented immigrants along with those that employ them.
It makes no difference their nationality. It makes no difference their race.

And in the case of the criminal employer it makes no difference that they are citizens.

Should we excuse Brunn and Roeder because they have what they describe as a calling. An ordination. A right to enforce laws that they claim are righteous no matter the wishes of the majority. No matter the morality standards set by society.

Of course Not.
But in effect that is the course taken by the illegal and the criminal employers that hire them.

Concerns for the legality of certain laws can be addressed through the courts in a honorable way.
Laws are meant to be addressed in the court room. Not on the street. Those that chose not to participate lawfully. Must address those laws in a criminal court room. Then pay the price.
 

Apologia notwithstanding, the left doesn't generalize as much as the right. The party of the left, the Democrats, are the largest collection of the most diverse body of people the world has ever seen. Generalizing is not part of the formula that makes that possible. The party of the right, on the other hand, is in a time of withdrawal and emergency re-definition that has included an increase in the homogeneity and wrestling with how much they want to be associated with racists, misogynists and zenophobes.

Is there, rationally,  more reason to believe that there is a viable threat from the extreme right moreso than the extreme left? Take a second to review reality: which side has members fond of the phrase "from my cold dead hands"? Which side is first to the switch when it comes to hate speech? (If you haven't read my blog reporting this data, I suggest you do so: http://people.bakersfield.c... This is not just opinion or a 'pot calling the kettle black". There is a huge difference between the way the left and the right proceed with their politics in this country. There have been violent people on the left, but far fewer than on the right - fact. Lynchings were carried out by conservatives. The anti-civil rights violence that still scars this country was carried out by conservatives. There are so many more incidents that could be described as 'anti-civil rights violence' than anything that was carried out by extremist hippies or eco-terrorists that it is just sinful to try and equate the two.

Hypocrisy? There is a lot of hypocrisy in modern politics, but perhaps wake up calls from brave individuals who are willing to state the facts in the interest of the public's defense like Napolitano will save us yet.

Most of the conservative posts above do nothing more than prove the need to invest in public education.

Rwestfall, you've made a common mistake regarding dictionaries.  They don't tell you what words mean.  They tell you how folks are currently using those words.  If people consistently misuse a word--as using "communist" when they mean "socialist"--dictionaries will dutifully report them the same.

LMAO!! You go ahead and bend it to the color of your world.

Dictionary :

""None of which were Liberal."

Really?  Manson and Bill Ayers?  No, they were 'radically' liberal and one of them is Obama's good friend

"Code Pink?  Are you out of your damned mind?  LOL!"

No, bucko, I'm not.  Code Pink is a left-wing, anti-war protest group.  Sorry if you can't understand.

You libs crack me up.  You foment anti-war, anti-government, anti-establishment protestations, but when some go off the rails and start killing you act like you just can't figure out what happened.  The 1960's birthed many leftist groups that turned violent and are still with us today.  Put your silly hypocrisy aside and start paying attention."

Manson had no politics. Liberal? You are, in a word, wrong.

Bill Ayers: never killed anyone, but one example of a leftist extremist on your list... let's see, you're batting .125 !!! Good work!

Code Pink: http://people.bakersfield.c...

So much of this stuff is so old...

<sigh> The job of educating the right never stops.

rwestfall, there's a long-standing schism between the "descriptive" and the "prescriptive" theories on dictionaries.  "Descriptive," referring to how words are used rather than how they *SHOULD* be used, won out in most popular works.

Dictionaries list their definitions in a particular order.  Try reading #1" on your socialism/communism example and you get a sense of the differences.

But don't quote definitions at *ME*.  I own more dictionaries than you've ever seen.

Random Factor:

You mean this cheering seen by the President of Operation Rescue posted in USA Today where they say:

We at Operation Rescue were shocked to hear of the killing of late-term abortionist George Tiller and were among the first groups to denounce the cowardly act that took Tiller's life. It was not justice, but vigilantism, which must be abhorred by a society that embraces the rule of law over anarchy.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/o...

And what about the Enviromental Liberation Front?  Or are enviromental causes not party of the Democratic parties party line?

Just in 2005..."Senior officials from the FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms (ATF) and Explosives told a Senate panel Wednesday of their growing concern over these groups.

Of particular concern are the Animal Liberation Front (ALF) and the Earth Liberation Front (ELF).

John Lewis, the FBI's deputy assistant director for counterterrorism, said animal and environmental rights extremists have claimed credit for more than 1,200 criminal incidents since 1990. The FBI has 150 pending investigations associated with animal rights or eco-terrorist activities, and ATF officials say they have opened 58 investigations in the past six years related to violence attributed to the ELF and ALF.

Also, just because a crime happened 30 years ago, that doesn't make it unreleavant in the argument.  To act like the conservative party is responsible for this nutcase would be like me saying anything ELF does is the liberals fault. 

Honestly, why is it so impossible for you to admit that extremists exist on both sides.  Random, if you still disagree, why do you believe liberals do not have extremists but conservatives do?

Quest: I believe any media outlet, right or left, is biased.  As far as the military shooting goes, I do believe that it was not given the same media coverage as the Tiller killings because Tiller gave the leftist media permission to blame the pro-life party.

 "Really?  Manson and Bill Ayers?  No, they were 'radically' liberal and one of them is Obama's good friend"

I seriously doubt that Obama is "good friends" with Manson. As far as Ayers, it seems that conservatives have pumped up their casual relationship to that of BFF status. I have a few neighbors, are they my "good friends" too? I work with a few people too. Does that mean I think exactly like they do? 

As far as Code Pink, I'd like to see any evidence of a violent act of protest they've done. Just one will suffice. Keep in mind, holding up signs and yelling is not violent.

And you can usually tell the Code Pink group at a protest--they're the ones *NOT* wearing all-black.

About the definitions of socialism and communism: there is less difference between them than there is between either of them and fascism, but the right has been blurring that line as well of late. I'm guessing that random's eagerness to distinguish between them was born largely from this recent confusion.

That being said, I wouldn't take the dictionary as the last word in defining political terms as used by political scientists. The best way to understand them in that light would be a polit sci text. This site is a good example of same: http://members.cruzio.com/~...

Though notice that the definitions of communism and socialism doesn't mark them as different except in degree. I think that's fair. But also not the same thing as what rwestfall says.