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Real Name: Tom Webster Gender: male Member Since: August 14, 2006 Last Signed In: September 04, 2008 Profile Views: 11651 Blog Views: 13458 One Last Time for the Fans - Drinking Liberally Tonight Bloggers and Lagers: This Saturday from Noon to Three at Pizzaville Bloggers' Beer and Pizza at PizzaVille on Saturday Drinking Liberally - The bar is now open! Drinking Liberally Thursday Night Not Yet Drinking Liberally Drinking Liberally? Bush Announces The End of the Surge McCain Breaks His Own Laws McCain's Idea of Love August 06 September 06 October 06 November 06 December 06 January 07 February 07 March 07 April 07 May 07 June 07 July 07 August 07 September 07 October 07 November 07 December 07 January 08 February 08 March 08 April 08 May 08 June 08 July 08 August 08 September 08 
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Checking in from Yearly Kos
Yearly Kos (yKos) is a yearly conference of the online Democratic activist community that hosts politicians, writers, journalists, bloggers, and activists from every all sorts of liberal and progressive groups.
I got in to Chicago late last night and met up with a ton of friends from all over the country. The registration desk had already closed, so I spent time catching up, having a few drinks (the Hyatt apparently can't get Coke, and Rum and Pepsi isn't quite cutting it), and then trundling off to bed. This morning meant breakfast at 6:30 (4:30 California time) and registration just after 7. Another cup of joe and off to see General Wesley Clark give an electrifying speech at 8am. If you want to get a look at the thinking of the Former NATO Supreme Allied Commander on Iraq, you've got to watch this video. http://www.yearlykosconvent... He certainly challenged this administration but he also made sure that he understood and would not back down from his beliefs that we have ongoing concerns in Iraq and the Middle East. He spoke warmly of Gen. Petraeus who has a mission and will do everything he can with the orders he has. While my personal beliefs have not always coincided with the outline put forward by General Clark today, I am certainly not in any place to even suggest that my knowledge of the situation is better than his. I'll write more at length about what he had to say in the coming days and weeks, but you should invest the time to hear his words for yourself. After that, it was time for some panels and workshops. The schedule is here: http://www.yearlykosconvent... I attended a group of workshops around nuts and bolts campaigning, messaging, polling and ballot initiatives. What is really fun is getting together with others at the end of the day and hearing about what is going on in other sessions. One of the beautiful things about the way the blogging community works is that no one person is expected to know everything since there is frankly so much to know. We have people from all walks of life here and it is really impressive. I've had offhand conversations with a geneticist, and full time blogger, a grad student in Human Interface Technology, a stay-at-home mom and a programmer for Microsoft. Sunday, a group of the people who are in the construction trades are getting together for breakfast, so I can't wait to meet all of them. Tomorrow promises to be a fun day as well. All of the Democratic Presidential candidates will be here and I hope to get some good pictures to share with you all. I'll be going to the main panel where they all speak and then off to a "breakout" session with John Edwards. He's an underdog right now, but he's fighting for the underdogs as well, so I think he's in a good spot. It's 1:30 am here now and Chuck Schumer is kicking of the day in 6 and a half hours, so it's time for me to get a bit of shut eye. For those of you who want to check it out but can't make it, the convention is being hosted in Second Life as well: http://www.yearlykosconvent... 83 comments from 10 users
posted by
TomW
on Aug 3, 2007 at 11:41 PM
And yes, I'll post a comment so that those who watch the "New Comments" section see it.
posted by
ronmexico
on Aug 4, 2007 at 08:17 AM
Did anyone ask Wesley when the troops he put in Bosnia were ever going to come home???
posted by
adampayne
on Aug 4, 2007 at 09:01 AM
Great work, Tom. Thanks for the links and coverage.
posted by
randomfactor
on Aug 4, 2007 at 09:09 AM
Thanks, Tom. Kicking myself for not attending the Las Vegas one last year. I did wear my Mojo 4.0 shirt in solidarity, though... . Ronm, quite likely they'll stay in Bosnia longer than the ones in Iraq do. That's the difference between winning a war (or breaking even) and losing one. We've still got significant number of troops in Korea, too, but not in Vietnam. The difference between Vietnam and Iraq? Bush had a pullout strategy for Vietnam. Do you know how many are still in Bosnia? When was the last time one of them was blown up by a car bomb? posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 09:33 AM
Just attended a great workshop by OrangeClouds (for those that know her) and a few other people as well. Really well thought out addressing obesity, health care costs, Local/organic growing, farm subsidies, etc. Quite incredible.
posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 09:34 AM
RF, you forgot Germany.
posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 09:36 AM
Ron, you should have come yourself to ask him. It's a good question and if you've got an issue with it, it should be addressed.
posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 10:01 AM
Howard Dean's opening keynote address is now online: http://drinkingliberally.or...I'll send all y'all over to the Drinking Liberally link since it may give someone some ideas about starting a local chapter. :) posted by
woofwoof
on Aug 4, 2007 at 10:17 AM
Hey while your in Chicago, I can recommend places to go....Restaurant wise, check out Shaw's Crab House, it's kinda behind the Wrigley Building on the other side of the river, one of my favorite places, next door there use to be the Blue Crab Lounge with great blues music, I wonder if it's still there. ......ah I just realized your at the Hyatt by the McCormick Place ( I use to work with one of the McCormick's, lol). I saw my first concert there.....David Bowie, back in 1973. Can you see that big red building in the Chicago skyline? It's the CNA building, I worked in the building directly in front of it, right in front of Grant Park and down the way a bit, the Art Museum. I bet your busy just staying where you are.....I'm jealous....I still consider Chicago home, though I have no family left there. Can't wait for the pics of the Democratic Candidates, I'm gonna check back later to your links to see what they have to say this time. posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 02:19 PM
Woof, I can see that building from my hotel room. The running joke right now is that we're not in Chicago, we're on an island near Chicago. I did make it out last night to Ed Debrevic's though.As for the candidate pictures, my pictures in the main debate hall didn't come out. The lighting is really poor and my new camera couldn't handle it. I got front row for Edwards though and he's awesome. I'll have a ton of Edwards pictures tonight. I've always liked the guy and his positions but now that I've seen him and shaken his hand: I trust him to lead the country. posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 02:38 PM
Lemme see if I can post this w/o blowing the margins:
posted by
ronmexico
on Aug 4, 2007 at 03:03 PM
Looks like the Daily KOS is practicing their version of Freedom of Speech. Feel free to say anything you like, as long as it is in agreement with the management of KOS.... posted by
TSM
on Aug 4, 2007 at 05:16 PM
Did anyone ask Wesley when the troops he put in Bosnia were ever going to come home? The troops in Bosnia are there as peacekeepers. They are not being shot at, wounded, being blown up or coming home suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome. In fact, not one U.S. solder was killed in combat in Bosnia. The only two American casualties were from accidents. Bosnia is a perfect example of the results when a true multinational force with a set strategy, the backing of the entire membership (NATO in this case) and executes the strategy as planned. Since your intention was to criticize Clinton, you should have searched for a different example. You might as well ask when the troops in South Korea will be coming home. Feel free to say anything you like, as long as it is in agreement with the management of KOS.... Pajamasmedia is a far rightwing web site. Do you have something from a cite which doesn't have an obvious biased agenda? I find it interesting how I've watched you disparage posters who use Liberal sources, yet you expect those same people (and others) to accept a cite from a known rightwing site. Perhaps in the name of fairness you'll refrain from doing the very thing you criticize others of. Or you can always stop criticizing the source. posted by
ronmexico
on Aug 4, 2007 at 05:31 PM
Wow. If no one is getting killed, sounds to me like they are not really needed, no?? SOunds to me like there is peace??? So why keep an occupation force in a peacefull country?? Are you saying the serviceman who spoke at KOS really was not there, and Pajamasmedia just made it up?? So it was all just a big show and really did not happen?? Please point me to an objective site which will explain how it really did not happen. Thank you... posted by
TSM
on Aug 4, 2007 at 05:47 PM
So why keep an occupation force in a peacefull country? To keep it peaceful since the groups are still working on creating a lasting amicable arrangement. Are you saying the serviceman who spoke at KOS really was not there, and Pajamasmedia just made it up? Pajamas Media is a biased source with an obvious agenda. And they've been known to be wrong (about the Lancet report for example). I want to hear it from an unbiased source. Since the MSM all have a presence there, it should be easy enough for you to find a source from one of them. If it were an opinion piece, there would be no issue. But since they are presenting it as fact, I want confirmation of the fact. Just as some people hold suspect "unnamed sources" who are quoted in the media. Please point me to an objective site which will explain how it really did not happen. You can't prove a negative. You learn that in a high school logic class. Rather than get offended and request the impossible, wouldn't it be preferable to provide a source which everyone would be satisfied with? posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 06:02 PM
RonM, I wasn't there. Did you watch the video? First, he wasn't "escorted" from the room. The speaker tried to pull him aside to talk to him in depth because the Q&A session is for short questions and he was asking for a dissertation. Secondly, they pulled him aside because it's actually illegal for him to do what he did. You can't speak about political issues in uniform. The people on the panel knew that and so did he by his own admission on the tape. PJ's screwed up the story. As for the "management" of Kos, you're very wrong on two counts. First, the website and the convention are two wholly unrelated things. Markos Moulitsas, the military veteran who owns Daily Kos, let some bloggers use his name and his site to promote a convention that shared his name. That's the extent of the relationship. Now, if you know anything about Democratic politics or bloggers, you probably be laughing at the idea of "management". As Will Rogers said, "I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat." That's doubly true of the blogs. Going back to the video (and BTW, thanks for posting this) At the 7 minute mark, the soldier says, "I'm here because these people here are good people. It's not like how they make it out in the media that they're crazy or whatever. These are good people." What else you got, Ron? posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 06:06 PM
I'm actually satisfied with the source, TSM. Pajamas Media are idiots, but they can't fake tape. They didn't seem to watch it before they posted it, but the tape itself is as biased as it can be and yKos still looks great. BTW, people who don't know him might not of recognized him, but sitting next to Stoltz was Gen. Clark. Now, if RonM wants to say that General Clark is working for Markos, more power to him. :)
posted by
ronmexico
on Aug 4, 2007 at 06:12 PM
Clark is working for whomeven gives him the most money. Kinda like that fighter for the underdog, Ambulance Chaser John Edwards.. posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 06:22 PM
Wow, Ron, way to support the military. As for John Edwards, talk to me about the ambulance chasing. Tell me about the girl who had her intestines sucked out by a defective pool filter cover. One that the company knew was defective and continued to make and sell. How much money did she deserve? How much would you accept to allow a company to suck your child's intestines out through their anus? I hate to bring it down to that, but if you're going to call him an ambulance chaser, I think you've got an answer for that and I'm guessing it's less than the money Edwards got in that case.
posted by
ronmexico
on Aug 4, 2007 at 06:26 PM
He is an ambulance chaser. Plain and simple.
posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 06:35 PM
Tell me how, Ron. Seriously. Give me an example.
posted by
TSM
on Aug 4, 2007 at 06:47 PM
Clark is working for whomeven gives him the most money. Wesley Kanne Clark (born December 23, 1944) is a retired four-star general of the United States Army. Clark was valedictorian of his class at West Point, was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship to the University of Oxford where he obtained a degree in PPE, and later graduated from the Command and General Staff College with a master's degree in military science. He spent 34 years in the Army and the Department of Defense, receiving many military decorations, several honorary knighthoods, and a Presidential Medal of Freedom. Do you feel this way about all U.S. soldiers who served their country most honorably but don't adhere to your political beliefs? I'm actually satisfied with the source, TSM. Even though they got the story wrong by your own admission and account? That's hardly a vote of confidence in my mind. Tell me how, Ron. Seriously. Give me an example. It must have been the time Edwards represented a family whose little girl was sucked through a defectively made pool drain and had her intestines pulled out of her body. It happened again recently to a 6 year old girl in Minnestoa and thanks to Edwards defense of the family in the first case, the girl who was recently injured will get the medical care she needs to live. posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 06:58 PM
TSM, sure, PJ got the story wrong, but the video, even with all the slant, is still video and is accurate in what it shows. They lied about what it showed hoping that some people wouldn't watch it. That's why I added the summary.Lemme clarify what I meant by "the source". I meant I'm actually ok with the source video. PJ's lies about what was on the video, not so much. Of course, if Ron wants to watch the video and tell me where anything he said holds up, I'm happy to talk about it with him. posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 07:01 PM
BTW, Ron, I dropped this earlier, but who is paying Clark? Was he paid to come here and talk?
posted by
TSM
on Aug 4, 2007 at 07:15 PM
I meant I'm actually ok with the source video. PJ's lies about what was on the video, not so much. I was more concerned about the story on the web site than the video. Pajamas Media is a web site that deserves no credibility. Lying about the Lancet report, distorting what Dick Durbin said during an interview and outing the page who released Mark Foley's sexual explicit instant messages to him was enough for me. I'm always amused by the Conservatives who complain about DailyKos yet are unable to provide evidence of the type of "reporting" Conservative web sites like Pajamas Media is known for on DailyKos. who is paying Clark? Was he paid to come here and talk? It is my understanding that none of the attendees, speakers or candidates are being paid. Is this correct? posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 07:40 PM
TSM, you are correct. Everyone who is here is here to meet, connect, grow the movement and throw their ideas and causes into the mix. No one is getting paid.
posted by
TSM
on Aug 4, 2007 at 07:44 PM
No one is getting paid. So where did ronmexico get the idea that Clark was being paid? You don't have to answer, it was rhetorical. What was the brohaha I heard mention of about Hillary and a breakout group? Something about she didn't show or did show. Either one, it got the right all bent out of shape. posted by
TomW
on Aug 4, 2007 at 08:03 PM
TSM, she had a conflict and couldn't show up at the scheduled time. She moved some things around and did the breakout group before the main panel. She was there for everything and did a great job when I saw her.For full disclosure, she's number 4 with me of the top 4, but only because the Democratic field is so strong. I'd be damn happy to call her Madam President. posted by
TSM
on Aug 4, 2007 at 08:30 PM
she had a conflict and couldn't show up at the scheduled time Limbaugh probably claimed she went to get a $400 haircut. I'd be damn happy to call her Madam President. I'll seriously consider leaving the country this time. Two egotistical maniacs with an inferiority complex mixed with an oversupply of paranoia as a president in my lifetime is enough for me (Nixon & Bush). Although I'll hang around for awhile since it will drive the right absolutely bonkers. I wouldn't want to miss that. posted by
adampayne
on Aug 4, 2007 at 09:20 PM
ronmexico, given the grave condition of our health care system, we certainly could use the best ambulance chaser we can get. I'm not sure why you direct so much animosity at a person who stood up for the average citizen against criminal corporate negligence and abuse, and won. Are making defective products and dumping toxins without penalty your idea of the free market and corporate responsibility? You could be a real Republican.
posted by
ronmexico
on Aug 5, 2007 at 12:18 PM
Grave condition of our health care??We have the best doctors and best hospitals in the world. Period. End of Story.. posted by
TomW
on Aug 5, 2007 at 01:18 PM
Ronmexico, I think you're right that of the doctors in the world, many of the best are here. Of the hospitals in the world, many of the best are here. That isn't "health care". We have the biggest mansions in the world here too, but it doesn't mean there are no homeless people. We have more food in more varieties than any other country in the world, but it doesn't mean everyone has enough to eat. We have the best paying jobs in the world, but that doesn't mean that everyone who works 40 hours a week can feed their family or afford a home. I'll be happy to go into this further with you if you'd like an explanation of the difference between "heath care" and good doctors and hospitals. posted by
ronmexico
on Aug 5, 2007 at 02:37 PM
Like I said, the condition of Health Care in this country is not grave. Best doctors an hospitals in the world. Illegal immigrants get health care without paying anything. Those that are without insurance cannot be turned away from hospitals... Of course, some in this country think they are entitled to the best doctors and the best hospitals without having to pay more than a happy meal and a big mac a week. Somehow, they think the best doctors and hospitals should be at their disposal with no out of pocket expense....That is the grave condition this country faces.. posted by
TSM
on Aug 5, 2007 at 03:58 PM
We have the best doctors and best hospitals in the world. Period. End of Story. Not quite. Although we have the some of best doctors and hospitals (Sweden holds more claim to having the best doctors and hospitals in the world), we also have the highest rates of uninsured in the developed world. We have the highest costs for health care and Americans receive the lowest rates of care in the developed world. We also have one of the highest rates of child mortality in the world, period. Cuba's child mortality rate is lower than America's. So you see, the story is just beginning. Illegal immigrants get health care without paying anything. Ah, this old myth again. It appears you have no intention of approaching this honestly. posted by
ronmexico
on Aug 5, 2007 at 04:07 PM
Why have insurance when you don't need it?? Please cite me the law that says hospitals can turn away those that are not insured... posted by
TSM
on Aug 5, 2007 at 04:21 PM
Please cite me the law that says hospitals can turn away those that are not insured They not only turn them away, they sometimes dump them off in skid row. And since you like to play this game, show us a law that says they can't. posted by
TomW
on Aug 5, 2007 at 04:29 PM
Ronmexico, can you get a cancer screening in an ER? How about having a physical? Hospitals can't turn you away, but you can't get preventative care. So what ends up happening is that people wait until their cancer is inoperable before they go in.BTW, are you thinking of answering the other questions that were asked earlier or have you decided you got beat? You're starting to live up to your picture, but you ain't the guy standing up... posted by
TomW
on Aug 5, 2007 at 04:37 PM
Oh here it is. Gosh, so easy, a caveman could do it...http://articles.moneycentra... What you're not entitled to If you're not having an emergency, then the hospital emergency room does not have to treat you. The hospital most likely will direct you to your own doctor or to a less-intensive-care setting, such as a community health clinic.What is considered an emergency situation? According to the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act (EMTALA), an emergency medical condition means:(A) a medical condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain) such that the absence of immediate medical attention could reasonably be expected to result in:
(B) with respect to a pregnant woman who is having contractions:
posted by
Neverleft
on Aug 5, 2007 at 06:39 PM
Respect Clark as an Army Officer and his service but not as a politican. 51 minutes of liberal sound bites. Just what I expected from a Ko's convention. Spam Code-KJOKI= Ko's Jokes Overcome Ko's Inteligence. posted by
TomW
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:02 PM
Yeah, neverleft, it was pretty much a liberal/progressive crowd. Government oversight, clean air, clean water, national security, etc. Heck, the Sunday Morning prayer service even let some non-Christians in. ;)
posted by
TSM
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:08 PM
Respect Clark as an Army Officer and his service but not as a politican. When you criticize the man, you criticize the uniform he wore. Heck, the Sunday Morning prayer service even let some non-Christians in. You mean they weren't shouted down and accused of being Satan worshippers? posted by
randomfactor
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:10 PM
Neverleft, it's "Kos," not Ko. Short for "Markos." Unless the Revered Keith Olbermann was in attendence? . Thanks for the missives, Tom. Wish I Were There. posted by
TomW
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:15 PM
RF, I'm going to post a summary later tonight. I'm working on it now and hopefully can do some of my own breakout sessions over the next few weeks.BTW, "Kos" was the nickname he got while he was in the military. It's a bit of trivia I'm sure we can have fun with. posted by
Neverleft
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:19 PM
Yeah, neverleft, it was pretty much a liberal/progressive crowd. Government oversight, clean air, clean water, national security, etc. Heck, the Sunday Morning prayer service even let some non-Christians in. All controlled be the socoalist government and paid for by the over taxed taxpayer. Respect Clark as an Army Officer and his service but not as a politican. Bullpucky!! They are two seperate things. I respected Tyson for his boxing ability but hated him for the life he led and the things he done. posted by
TSM
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:27 PM
I respected Tyson for his boxing ability but hated him for the life he led and the things he done. How exactly did Tyson serve his country? I'm assuming you know what I'm getting at. posted by
Neverleft
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:40 PM
TSM. Even a "Caveman" could understand what I mean. You can respect a man for some things he has done in his life but dislike him for something other that he has done. I am from a long line of the Military going back to my Great Grandfather. I still do not like Clarks politics. posted by
drilnliftcrude
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:49 PM
TSM said, "When you criticize the man, you criticize the uniform he wore." Are you saying that you can not criticize anyone who wore the uniform? Or you can if you maybe "loathe" the military? I'd be interested in your explanation of this statement. posted by
TSM
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:49 PM
You can respect a man for some things he has done in his life but dislike him for something other that he has done. I guess you have a different definition of respect than I do. I don't see it as something you can pick at like a plate of food, only eating what you like. I don't agree with much of Colin Powell's politics, but I respect the man completely. I am from a long line of the Military going back to my Great Grandfather. My family's military history goes back a lot longer than that. A whole lot longer. But that's neither here nor there. I still do not like Clarks politics. What don't you like about Clark's politics? Give some specific things he's said or done so we have a frame of reference. posted by
TSM
on Aug 5, 2007 at 07:53 PM
Are you saying that you can not criticize anyone who wore the uniform? There is a difference between criticism and respect. Neverleft specifically said he didn't respect Clark's politics, as if respect was a smorgasbord. posted by
Neverleft
on Aug 5, 2007 at 08:04 PM
TSM. I am beginning to believe there is a sheet of Kryptonite between us. What is so hard for you to understand. I respect Clark for his service to our Country but do not respect his politics. I can't be any clearer unless I draw you pictures. That's my opinion, get it! End of story.
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