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citybeat - > City Beat -> Counting seconds at the red-light cameras
Counting seconds at the red-light cameras

When Asarulislam Syed went to traffic court last week, he was prepared.


He had gone out to California Avenue and Oak Street, the intersection where he’d gotten a ticket, with a stopwatch and a video camera. The result was a DVD showing, conclusively, that the yellow light on the left-turn signal lasts 3.6 seconds.

He had a speed-limit map from the city, showing that Oak Street’s speed limit is 40 mph where it crosses California.

He had a chart from a state manual, showing that when the speed limit is 40 mph, a yellow light should last 3.9 seconds.

And he had the section of state law that said if a city uses red-light cameras, the yellow lights must meet the standards in the state manual.

But he had missed one thing: The page that said the chart applies to through-lane lights, not to protected lefts.

Syed got his documents from the city’s traffic engineering department, including a variety of pages from California’s Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices.

“I gave him four or five copies of various things,” said John Ussery, the traffic engineer who assisted Syed.

Syed seized on Page 4D-27 and its table with suggested minimum yellow light times.

But over on Page 4D-11 is where the minimum yellow light times are set. For through lanes, it says, check the chart. For left-turn lanes, though, the minimum is 3.0 seconds.

Which means the light at California and Oak has 0.6 seconds to spare.

“The end was, the judge said he heard me,” Syed said. “It was very cordial, but he said he’s going to send the result of this by mail.”

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posted by citybeat on Tuesday, March 10, 2009 at 04:41 PM
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posted by witterpitters on Mar 10, 2009 at 06:36 PM

Nothing ventured nothing gained. Good luck to him.

posted by littlealien1 on Mar 11, 2009 at 09:39 AM

If I were the Judge, I would let him off just on pure effort! :)

posted by hpver on Mar 11, 2009 at 11:07 AM

Good for him. I wish he'd won. This type of thing has been an ongoing problem in the city for a long time. Many traffic signals, particularly left turn signals, are too short, especially if you're the only vehicle. And try commuting by bicycle, like I do. And don't even get me started on the pedestrian signals that start flashing red after about 4 seconds of green, leaving even fit adults to rush, not to mention the elderly, the handicapped or the very young. There have been promises to fix things but too often nothing is done. Other cities in CA actually have signals with realistic timing for all road users. But apparently that's asking too much for Bakersfield.

posted by learnem on Mar 11, 2009 at 11:12 AM

im surprised he even got a trial, as red light tickets are sent directly to your house, with an address in arizona to send the money to.

a good friend of mine's daughter was driving his car, and got a ticket from a red light camera...the ticket was to him, but if you didnt know his daughter, you didnt know who was driving the car.

he attempted to fight it at the courts...they told him they had no jurisdiction over it and to contact the company...he just never paid it...that was three years ago

another one of our friends works for a local police department, and we had him looking for a warrant for him...but it never happened

so, i surmise that if you don't pay your red light ticket, nothing happens

posted by Jaguar64 on Mar 11, 2009 at 11:53 AM

I know this is somewhat off the subject, but  the City of Bakersfield ought to hire an someone from another city to study our traffic flow patterns and signal timing.  Driving in Bakersfield is very frustrating, especially during non-rush hour times when you have to wait and wait at a stop light where there is no traffic on the cross street. 

posted by dadofour on Mar 11, 2009 at 11:54 AM

Good job on the judges end to notice the left turn difference.  Here is another person who broke the law trying to get out of it.  I think the signals are timed pretty well here, ever been to Fresno???  Just because you are in the left turn lane doesn't mean you get to go through in one shot.  If you have to stop and wait, you have to stop and wait, it drives me crazy to watch car after car run a red light on a left turn.  With the traffic we've got here, you can't expect things to always move well.


posted by Jimbo69 on Mar 12, 2009 at 12:20 PM

Readers also need to know about Snitch Tickets, which are fake tickets sent out by the police in an effort to get the registered owner to identify the actual driver of the car.  Snitch tickets have not been filed with the court, so they don't say "Notice to Appear," don't have the court's address and phone # on them, and usually say, on the back (in small letters), "Do not contact the court about this notice."   Since they have not been filed with the court, they have no legal weight whatsoever.  Is it necessary to point out that you can, and should, ignore a Snitch Ticket?  If in doubt, Google the term.

posted by violet on Mar 14, 2009 at 08:42 AM

Shame on Mr. Syed.

 Running red lights is dangerous, illegal, and just plain wrong.

Yes, we've all been inconvenienced by the seemingly illogical network of lights in Bakersfield. Yes, we're all busy and in a hurry. Yes, we would all love to blow through those "orange" lights.

But we don't.

If Mr. Syed has this much time on his hands to research traffic flow, examine state legislation, and bicker in court, then he certainly has enough time to stop at a red light.

The judge will likely give Mr. Syed a fine to pay, and that will be the end of it.

 

posted by BrownVaporTrail on Mar 14, 2009 at 09:12 AM

Disagree. I'm the exact opposite of dadoffour. Nothing makes me happier than for a line of cars in a left turn lane to empty itself out no matter how long after the red they keep turning.

I can afford to wait a few more seconds at a green while a line of left turners keeps turning after the red. I lose a few extra seconds. THEY are saved two minutes EACH.

posted by Shwaine on Mar 14, 2009 at 03:54 PM

Violet, given the fact that he was timing the length of the yellow light, then the implication is that he ran a yellow, not a red. It's a subtle but important distinction. One can legally go through on a yellow if one thinks they will clear the intersection before the red or if one cannot stop behind the line without causing a hazard (this later part is the issue I have with red light camera intersections since many slam on the brakes when the light turns yellow even when they can't stop before the line to avoid the red light ticket, but then cause a fender bender because they stopped so suddenly).

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