I like you. lol

History has and will always follow that model. Nice post !

I concur...well said.

 That which is accepted today was considered offensive yesterday.

And often to societies detriment ala the Roman Empire.

Someday, gays will marry, polygamy will be legal, brothers will marry sisters, the living will marry the dead, etc. Society will continue down hill.

Some of us are just trying to apply the brakes a little. But we all know the end will come eventually.

And the band plays on.

witbee, that's a slippery slope if I've ever seen one.

Witbee...I've often noted folks will throw out "look what happened to the Roman Empire" as an example of what happens when gay rights come up.

I also note--without humor--the downfall of the Roman Empire also coincided with the rise of Christianity. Seems to me empire collapses have more to do with religion becoming powerful than with sexual orientation...but...maybe that's just me.

FSG... slopes are slippery by nature... just as sand is grainy. I don't really know what that means... but it sounded cool didn't it ?

Nice post.

 the downfall of the Roman Empire also coincided with the rise of Christianity.

Chicken/egg situation?

Very interesting post.

That which is accepted today was considered offensive yesterday.  Likewise, those things we may find offensive today will not retreat, but rather endure, until that day comes they too becomes accepted as commonplace and normal

This decribes man's march towards tolerance.

This decribes man's march towards tolerance

But man likes to stumble along the way doesn't he? :)

I was unaware of the Kafka quote, but I love it.

In my own mind, I compare the current dispute over gay marriage with the campaign to decriminialize private sexual acts among consent adults waged in California in the 1960s and 1970s. At that time, the only legal act was vaginal intercourse. Other sexual acts were illegal, regardless of the gender of the parties, although in practice the laws were only used against gays and lesbians.

Every year starting in 1966 Willie Brown would introduce a decriminalization bill into the Assembly, and every year it would be voted down. Every year the vote against the bill got smaller and smaller.  Finally, in 1975, the bill passed the Assembly and went to the California Senate where it tied 20/20.  In a dramatic move, George Moscone locked the Senate doors so that no one could leave while the Lieutenant Governor Dymally flew back from a conference in Denver to cast the tie breaking vote.  Governor Brown signed the bill. Active gays and lesbians stopped being automatic felons, and conservatives grumbled about perverts being allowed to run free and reminded everyone about the End of the Roman Empire.

The lesson to remember, of course, is "if at first you don't succeed......"

Some of the bloggers keep saying that the "people have spoken".  This should always be modified by "for this election cycle".  We don't elect governors or presidents for life.  They get 4 years to show us whether or not they can do the job, and if they can't "the people" get to kick them out.  We review the conduct of Congress and the state legislature every two years.  Any political issue can be reopened every election cycle so long as the proponents of change can get enough signatures to put a proposition of the ballot.  

"The people" is also constantly changing.  Every day a large number of teenagers reach the magic age of 18.  Every day some regular voters die.  Each election "the people"  have the right to make new choices.  In four years, some 800,000 new voters will be eligable to vote, and some 1,000,000 old voters will have passed on.

The "Yes on 8" people are running scared.  From 61% to 52% in eight years!  That is an earthquake of a change in attitudes.  Those kids who are turning 18 every day?  More than 6 our of 10 favor marriage equality.  Those folks who are dying off - they're against marriage equality by the same margin.

We obviously haven't reached marriage equality yet, but it is clearly on the horizon.

Although most of you on this little coffee & california think that we're not progressive enough, most of us (I think about 75% of Bakersfield or Kern County) likes the idea of perserving traditional values as much as we can.  As a society, we must have a set of rules and we must learn to live by those rules.  If not, we become no different than the very animals we mock at the zoos.  If this issue does become part of our 'ceremony', then what is next and why should that be stopped?  We must have some constraints.  Can you imagine a society with no rules and everyone lives by the motto of 'do what ever you want'?   Prove that we can control our behavior and that we are different than the animals we mock. 

I don't mock animals whether they're at the zoo or not. I also don't agree with your suggestion that gays aren't controlling their own behavior.

Speaking of mocking animals, here is a hilarious article about peregrine falcons

I find it ironic that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints strongly encouraged its members to contribute money to Proposition 8, since they used to promote polygamy. It's estimated that members of the church donated up to $20 million. The last two days there have been protests outside a Mormon church in Los Angeles.

http://www.latimes.com/news...

Although I have never been interested in Mormonism, I've always been polite when approached by missionaries. My attitude has now changed. If they approach me, I'm going to tell them that I didn't appreciate their church's support for a divisive proposition. I don't care if they're right out of high school. I hope they have a difficult time recruiting people in California. 

I almost forgot. The Laramie Project is at the Empty Space.

Whats wrong with Polygamy??

OK, the drive to collect enough signatures to put the repeal of Proposition 8 on the 2010 ballot has started. Here is the link:

http://www.couragecampaign....

 Gopher, you are my hero. 

How come no one complains about TV shows like Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire, The Bachelorette, or Wife Swap?  I think those are demeaning to the institution of marriage and it is literally in your living rooms. 

nine, I completely agree with you on that. It is demeaning, I have never watched any of those programs nor would I recommend them to anyone. I didn't even know that "Wife Swap" existed. Gross.

I also agree with your opinion of gopherbro. If anyone could ever come close to changing my vote, it would be him with his very eloquent and reasoned words. 

Vanityfair,

Thank you for the kind words, but I absolutely reserve the right to rant and rave if the mood strikes.

What did I miss here, gopherbro? I never suggested that you didn't have an absolute right to rant and rave if the mood strikes. 

 ...  I was appreciating your approach to not only prop 8 but other issues.

Sorry for making a compliment. 

Vanity, I really do thank you for the compliment. The rest was just a poor attempt at being funny.

 "Whats wrong with Polygamy??"

Nothing in and of itself.  I'd even like to see more polyamory, more swinging, and more open marriages.  If we let the free market take over in sexual relationships, I think the average quality of both men and women would improve significantly, because uncaring or abusive slobs would no longer be able to claim "ownership" of a woman for any length of time.  (And men with great bodies, good hands, and sensitive hearts could have two, or three, or four.  Free market competition rocks.  ;)

It might make for an interesting post to write, in fact.

Gopherbro, thanks for your response. I'm sorry for misinterpreting your comment that was meant as humor. I was sitting here in a "huh?" moment when I read it last night because the very actions and words from some who support gay marriage "rant and rave"  only make my resolve stronger to support marriage between one man, one woman ....  my opinion and appreciation of your eloquence and reason seemed to be ridiculed by you in my sleep-deprived brain.

I believe that if same-sex marriage becomes a reality, it will be because of people like you. Diligent, determined, respectful of others, and a great sense of humor. I don't read every blog thoroughly regarding this issue (and there certainly were PLENTY), but what I have noticed is that you have never called anyone a bigot, never criticized another's religion, and always show respect to others. 

I struggle with this issue.  I had a "friends update" on my profile months ago where I basically said take it up with the Feds. What happens in bedrooms between consenting adults is none of my business, but what my kids hear and what they are taught IS my business. Introducing concepts way beyond their ability to understand and practice is not in their best interest, IMO. If you've read enough of my comments here you know that I'm convinced that Plato's Republic is our destination. Maybe for some that seems like a good idea ... for me ...  not so much.

BTW, your comment about retreating to your nest of shredded Republican absentee ballots had me laughing.