"But these little “informational lapses” can’t continue if refinery officials want to gain the public’s trust and approval of their project."

Typically, I do not agree with Lois Henry on many subjects, including the proposed expansion of the Big West Refinery. However, this one time, this one article, for the most part, I agree, particularly with the above statement. Big West Refinery has repeatedly shown an unwillingness to be truthful, and most alarming, ethical.

While I fully understand and appreciate the idea to remain profitable, however, in the precarious position Big West finds itself, top ethical standards must be in the forefront and not left to be an after thought.

This is one more example of Big West sidestepping and holding back the entire amount of information available to policy makers and citizens, alike. While this " informational lapse” may seem trivial, when will another "lapse" be no longer trivial and possibly life threatening too many many innocent tax paying citizens?

I strongly urge all policy makers at the local, including city and county and state level, and citizens alike to say NO to the proposed Big West expansion. 

Have you ever run a refinery Lois?

It is much easier to be a member of the peanut gallery and carp at every decision made thereto.

You remind me of the trombonist jumping on the bandwagon after noting no slides on the wagon..........

First, Alternative D was not put on the table in the first place because it doesn't achieve what is needed. Just as stated in you opinion column "Alternative D will produce gasoline and diesel but not alkalyte, a blending component for cleaner burning fuels".

Now let's ask this question... is this called the 'Make More Diesel Project'? No.

How about is it called the 'Make Big West More Money Project'? No.

Oh that's right... it's the 'Clean Fuels Project'. Well it sounds as if Alternative D will not produce the alkaylyte to accomplish that, correct. So rather than pointing the finger at Big West and saying, "shame on you for fooling us", you should be saying, "thanks for helping the environment." Now you answered your own question of why it took over a year to hear about an alternative... because the alternative method ISN'T the goal!

Yes Big West is interested in making money but you do a great injustice by not mentioning that it does not do so at the expense of the safety of its employees and community. Just as you mentioned the refinery has been in location for 76 years and for just now hearing about the refinery I'd say it does a pretty good job of protecting those mentioned.

Do you really think that because you now know one chemical that was planned to be introduced that the public will now be "more aware of what's cooking over there"? No. You don't have a clue what is going on in everyday operations. It is beyond you to know unless you have ever worked at a refinery. Do you ultimately believe adding video cameras for the public will make the refinery any safer than it already is? No one would know what to look for at any matter. Did you include a mention that the refinery has it's own Rescue team, Fire Brigade and soon a Hazmat Response team so that any emergency situation is aided with qualified experienced operators of the refinery. They are there as volunteers... for their families, for their community, and for their livelihood. Everyone has made it sound as if the Fire Department is going to have to do all the emergency response when the fact is they just assist the refinery.

The refinery has been part of this community. It was here before this was a community. It helps and cares for it's community. It always has because the workers there make up the community that surrounds it. I would be willing to state that at least 90% of the employees live within 5 miles.

Long and short, that refinery is an asset to the community. Whether you count it by gasoline output, the community outreach it participates in, the people that it employees, or just by the tax dollars it pumps into the local economy. Negative and ill-stated opinions such as yours will be its downfall. Will you be the person to tell the workers that you caused the plant closure and the loss of their jobs? Are you going to be happy paying $7+ per gallon of gasoline? Are you going to complain that there aren't enough tax dollars to fix problems in the city? I surely hope not, but that is the road you are motivating people to travel down with your half-thought opinions.

It would be nice to see some retractions from your letter. It would be nice to see you be positive about this project. In the end, if you must occupy your time by bird-dogging a company with dangerous chemicals and a not-so-good track record, maybe come out with an article about the ammonia release that General Mills just had. I would expect nothing less, lest you are just prejudiced to Big West now.

Lois,

There was a very good reason for the original plans including an HF alky unit.  THE ONLY REFINERY they own has an HF alky unit.  You go with what you know.  They didn't think of every possible combination of units  that could be assembled to make clean fuels. They went with what they were familiar with, and what has worked for 40 years in Utah.  I am sure they had no idea the regulatory gauntlets they would have to go thru, as the regulatory climate in Utah is much different than California.  IF they had known that it would take 3 years to get approval for an expansion that is not what they originally envisioned, my guess is that they never would have purchased the refinery.   And the city would be sitting with a mothballed refinery generating no tax income.

It is good that alternatives are being discussed, but I am a bit worried about the power the government continues to grab..

How soon before  a citizen submits a building permit appication for a 5000 sq ft house with a 6 car garage and the building department tells them it has too big a carbon footprint, and they should have been more ethical and submitted a plan for a 3000 sq ft house with a 2 car garage??  Is that what we want from our government??

 No. You don't have a clue what is going on in everyday operations. It is beyond you to know unless you have ever worked at a refinery

hear hear!

You cabesa de nudillos will run this co. off and you will have a hunk of junk collecting your dust. Then you will bitch about --

REPUBLICANS

GASOLINE PRICES

REPUCLICANS

DIESEL PRICES

REPUBLICANS

AIR QUALITY

REPUBLICANS

GLOBAL WARMING

REPUBLICANS

HEALTH CARE

REPUBLICANS

GASOLINE PRICES

REPUBLICANS

POLLUTION

REPUBLICANS

Past will be Prologue..................

Good job Dean Florez.......... the sheeple will elect you again, you will have a microphone ergo, and you will oversee a stagnating West Coast Rust Belt............ Good Job Dean! Lois Too! Henry Ried too! Sheesh!

Dont feel like the 'Lone Stranger'...Lois seems to promote as much negativity as possible in her columns. I'm not quit sure if she really believes what she writes about or if she just post to stir the pot and keep her name in lights... I mean occasionally I can read a column and at least once in awhile agree with the columnist's views but its just never happened with her articles yet...EVER... Just for once it would be nice to read something that we were both on the same side of the fence on..

Good job Lois......... you exercised your great gastrocnemius'  flexibility and jumped right on that bandwagon once you realized the wind was  "blowing your way"......

It must be nice having a job where you just wait until turtle tries to do something and you stand on his shell waiting to drop guillotine when his neck pops out (since yours never does and you make your money hoping the head ceremoniously rolls into the basket to the cheers of your irresponsible {yet all too loud} mis-informed minions..........

     Oh where to begin boogie... first, the trained and qualified refinery "rescue" personnel. While well intentioned, these individuals are not professional firefighters or professional hazmaters. Will these refinery personnel be qualified to the same level as KCFD/BFD Haz Mat technicians?? Furthermore, will they have the experience operating in extreme environments, as do our local fire hazmat boys. I have been a public servant for 20 years including a long stint as a reserve FF for the city. And while our reserves trained side by side with full time career FF's, the full time guys were always more proficient due to their every day exposure. Just as I have been a career Paramedic handling thousands of 911 calls in my life of all  types I am more proficient at my task than a volunteer with good intentions. I have a hard time believing your statement that local fire will, in essence, be the refinery lackeys in an emergency. Yes, personnel familiar with the refinery will no doubt be on scene, at the command post, to lend their experience and understanding, but the pro's will do the job.

As for your comment about consumers paying  dollars at the pump if Big West is either shut down or prevented to expand is false. Many issues are currently in play including speculators hedging their bets with oil as the US dollar falls coupled with supply issues in Western Africa and rising tensions in the Middle East, the whole bomb Iran thing, and just ood ol' supply and demand are what is driving up prices, not closing a single refinery in California.

The only factual part of your post was the loss of tax dollars from Big West. And while preventing loss of sustained tax revenue must be an important consideration, it must be only one consideration. 

Big West has not done a quality job of being a good neighbor in recent years. And as our city grows and co-mingles with refineries, refineries must work together with and not against the community it hopes to serve. In the case of Big West, this organization has taken the low road in each and every move in recent years, and with them asking me a taxpayer and someone who lives approximately 2-3 miles south of the refinery,  Quailwood/Stockdale, to support them in their expansion bid has done a very poor job of convincing me they will do the right thing all the time....and until that changes, Big West Refinery, while a tax benefit, is not an overall asset to this community.

Yeah Flight Medic (are you related to Monte Thompson BTW?) keep regulating this new  "neighbor" to death and see them leave.

Then you can join Monte the  "VN Medic"  and sit around bitching about high gasoline prices and how its all the fault of those evil Republicans.......

Flight medic, get over yourself. 

The question should be will the fire department be as trained in "industrial fires" as the Refinery Fire Brigade?  There is a big difference between fighting a structure fire that the fire department trains every day on than a processing unit fire.  Much different situation.

As for the rescue team, I would rather have someone from the Refinery Rescue team be the lead if I need rescued, for the simple fact that I know they would be more willing to put their life on the line for their coworker than the "public servants" would be for someone they don't know, who might be in an area that is unfamiliar and scary to someone not accustomed to an operating plant.

I have seen the Fire Department respond to refinery incidents.  They, basically stay by the front gate and incident command center and provide support  until the Refinery Fire Brigade gets thing under control, then when everything is safe they go in and assess how the job was done. 

When heater 21H18 burned in the hydrocracker back in the early 90's, I don't think the fire department was within 300 yards of the fire. It was the Refinery Fire Brigade that put the fire out.

Same thing when the refinery side at Ranchers Cotton Oil exploded back in the early 80's..fire dept stood in the parking lot directing traffic while the foreman and maintenance men ran through the blaze and shut the control valves off..The fire departments first reaction was to  hit the chem fire with water and it just floated on top..there was a 5 foot concrete block wall that surrounded the refinery side so it was like a flaming swimming pool.

Their final plan was to let the tanks empty and burn themselves out..enormous waste of fuel and HUGE chance on it destroying more of the plant..In fact when the fire department was called to put out a fire at a prior time in the cotton gin side bale press they ripped down walls to get to the smoldering flames and cost the plant alot of downtime and repair costs..

As maintenance personnel we were told that from then on we would be served a pink slip  if we called the fire department onto the property to put out a fire...sparks blowers and cotton lint resulted in fires on a regular bases out there...however naturally when an explosion that was felt from hwy 99 to the shafter city limits hit that order was temporarily amended for insurance reasons..but the fact remains it was the Ranchers employees that extinguished the fire..not the Fire Department.

the plant crew got alot of experience in dealing with them and not destroying plant equipment or buildings..Its always better to allow the trained workers to do their job than it is to have some one unfamiliar with their surroundings jump off helter skelter into the middle of things..

Ok Flightmedic, let's tackle these 1 by 1. First of all to answer your question, about if the Hazmat team will go through the same training as KCFD/BFD teams. I don't know what kind of extensive training the county and city get, but I know the refinery volunteers will have at least a 40 hour Hazmat response course yearly just as they have a yearly 40 hour hands on industrial fire fighting course.... which by the way, the refinery has taken a different county FF from their local with them to industrial fire school for years. Also did you know that the rescue team from the refinery won a ROCO invitational last year while attending their first time?

Just as Ronmexico states, fighting industrial fires is a different situation (not taking anything away from all the FF out there). Individuals on the fire brigade know how to handle hydrogen fires, LPG fires, crude fires, tank fires, and a range of situations. Again the teams are comprised of people who actually work the units, so they are the first in for incidents. The local departments do exactly stated, they wait at the gate for support and make equipment such as air packs available if needed. Again, not taking anything away from all the FF out there, but most would prefer NOT to run into the refinery because of the fact they don't know the chemicals, situations, and dangers. The refinery has AFFF foam, quick attack carts and firetrucks to help them do the job as best they can. So in this case I'm going to say the Brigade are the pro's, at least the for their enviroment.

Now you just said yourself that supply and demand are driving prices up, but yet don't agree that if the refinery is shut down or loses a chance to expand that it won't hurt pump prices. Hello? Doesn't shutting down ANY gasoline and diesel making refinery at this point in the game create less supply? Do you know how much diesel the refinery supplies to the state of California? Do you think that closing off that supply would hurt the states farmers, which in turn would raise the prices of food and so on. So your statement "and just ood ol' supply and demand are what is driving up prices, not closing a single refinery in California."  is just not well thought out.

Big West has done no different than companies such as Shell and Texaco when they owned and operated it. Do you honestly think that Shell Oil "did the right thing all the time"? No, they didn't... and Texaco was even worse. Neither of those were good neighbor companies that reported all their incidents. If they did, the policies would have already been in place and Big West would have followed suit. Instead they (Big West) are learning they need to modify the process in which they do things... but more importantly they are willing to do it.

The only correct statement in your entire reply is simply "as our city grows and co-mingles with refineries, refineries must work together with and not against the community it hopes to serve". Even in this aspect though, the community has built itself around the refinery and it too needs to work together with it and not against it. When you bought your house 2-3 miles south of the refinery, you obviously knew it was there. Why weren't you concerned with the chemicals and dangers of it back then as opposed to now? If it's because you didn't know of any back then, that reinforces the point that Texaco and Shell did a poor job of reporting their incidents. Or that you just didn't do your research.

How long will it take for Big West to report every tiny leak, every alarm, and every day going on directly to you before you consider it changed over to doing the right thing all the time? My guess is even if they report everything to the KCFD/BFD you are still not going to know about unless you spend your days calling them to find out the latest info.

They provide over 200 good paying jobs to the community and provide our county with a valuable resource, how could you honestly not say that Big West is not overall an asset to the community. That comment is disingenuous at best.

It's like kids who ask for the the most expensive toy in the toyshop and then "settle" for what they wanted all along.   Big West wants into Bakersfield.  And they're going to make it sound like their entry was our idea all along.   They'll be the nice guys who concede the refining method to the will of the people when the "original" will of the people was to keep them out.  

Lol... Newsflash.... Big West IS in Bakesfield. They still want the original proposal they drew up, but they will concede to the will of the people to not use MHF acid.

" The 73 year old lady that writes in the local section is a real busybody. "  tonyh

Lois has probably never flown a plane either chico. But she would still like her pilot to be licensed. 

Why would any member of the community not want the whole truth of the matter to come out? That's what journalists do.

Does she sit in the cockpit and ask him / her to detail every move he makes and question him on why he made it? Then does she make suggestions about how she feels he / she should fly the plane? Does she want to see all the past inspection and maintenance records since the plane was built before she allows them to fly?

No, she buys a ticket and trusts the pilot knows what he / she is doing IF she even thinks about it at all when boarding the plane.

What "whole truth" do you think is being hidden here? The refinery wanted to expand. They persued gaining the appropriate permits for the project they felt best suited their needs. The reason you didn't hear about an alternate method is because it doesn't achieve the same goal the original plan sought. Think about it, if you were going to buy a Ferrari would you want the details and specs of every car made? Now that it has been decided people want you to have a different car, they are providing details on different options.

Does she sit in the cockpit and ask him / her to detail every move he makes and question him on why he made it?

If he suddenly announces he's tired of using jet fuel and wants to try rocket fuel instead, I think she might be justified in asking him about it.

Gee, what a great analogy RF. 

If I'm in that plane, I'd be just as happy to keep Lois as far from said cockpit as is humanly possible myself........ 

Touche' Random :)

The word that is incorrectly used here is "try". That suggest that it has never been done before. This isn't the case with Big West. The pilot isn't just doing it on a whim... it's been tried and proven many times over by many other pilots as well as that pilot. Then it would be a normal process to complete... therefore he wouldn't even make an announcement.

This isn't something the refinery is experimenting with. Just as Ronmexico stated, this is technology that they have used and trusted for years in Utah.

It hasn't been done before *HERE* at *THIS* refinery with *THIS* surrounding area.

The problem here is Big West's modifications and expansion do affect a substantial portion of the local population, unlike in say, Utah, where's there one person per square mile or whatever the actual density is. Most of the state is a national park, and what isn't, is BLM land or owned by the LDS church. And you can pretty much expect great compliance from the population there, if the church says so, if you catch my drift (which hopefully, isn't the noxious danger of HF acid).

Anyway, Big West does not and cannot operate autonomously. Some of us do not care for their original expansion plan, specifically the use of hydrofluoric acid, for a number of reasons. Some of us do not care for the fact that Big West has had to be (dare I say it?) shamed into using a different method. Some of us are troubled that Big West, from day one, has tried to do this as cheaply as possible to maximize its profits. Some of us are tired of being treated like colonials, ripe for the picking, willingly or not exploited, and seeing the true fruits of our labors and resources exported away for the benefit of a wealthy few. And some of us spoke up about it. It worked in the 1770s....considering Independence Day is rolling around, ibanez, I'd have to classify you with the Tories.

"Sit down and shut up and get with the program" just doesn't work with some of us, you know?

Actually that is untrue Random. There is an old Alky unit *HERE*  in *THIS* refinery with *THIS* surrounding area. Still is there, just not in service. Has been there for years. So again, not a new process or concept to the refinery I'm sure.

"Some of us are troubled that Big West, from day one, has tried to do this as cheaply as possible to maximize its profits"

Isn't that the goal of ANY company? The common misconception here is that they are cutting costs by disregarding safety. Paint that identifies HF leaks, 6,000 gpm continuous deluge system, dump system, IR cameras and unit cameras... not only is that a ton of safety features but it goes well above and beyond what other refineries using MHF are using. The company is using UOP as the unit designers. They are using the most trusted and reliable valves for the MHF service (which also happen to be the most expensive) and they have hired UOP to oversee all the aspects of the project. UOP holds themselves to higher standards than OSHA and recommends high quality equipment for everything. As a matter of fact they are expensive themselves. People need to understand that when Big West says it is trying to do the most cost effecient process for them, that means in actually running costs (as compared to bringing trucks of bought sulfuric acid, regeneration costs, and so on). Not that it cut costs in building the equipment.

I don't know if it has even come up, but I have heard the amount of MHF acid that is actually going to be used is less than 400 barrels. That is miniscule.

I don't believe their philosophy is "Sit down and shut up and get with the program". It's not like they are trying to bully their way into the expansion in the same way this would have been handled in Texas.

I'll disregard the "tories" comment.  I support the expansion and the benefits it will bring to Bakersfield which doesn't classify me as a confederate against Bakersfield.

Did you all miss the part where I said I favored the expansion?

I even favored expansion with use of modified HF and I live in the area, so if something were to happen I'd be right there  in harm's way. (Don't get any ideas, Chico!)

HOWEVER, Big West has shown in various ways, that it needs to be more open to the community and much better at working WITH local government. I didn't just make that up. That's what LOCAL GOVERNMENT officials have said based on a number of incidents, the last being the amonia leak that went unreported by Big West.

Big West has said  repeatedly they need to expand to stay in business. They wanted to make better use of their leftover gas oil which they currently truck to LA to be refined into gasoline and diesel. So they went about seeking the necessary approvals.

They started with HF, yes, what they use in Utah, and were apparently shocked by the community reaction against HF. Since then, they've stutter stepped backward until out popped Alternative D.

No, Ibanezboogie2000, et.al., I'm not a refining expert.

Big West, however is, when I asked Gene Cotten if Alternative D would do the work they wanted done, he said yes. It will cost more and not produce as valuable a product, i.e. alkalyte. But Big West buys alkalyte already and can continue to do so in order to comply with clean fuels mandated by the state.

Working hand-in-hand with local government to create a stronger atmosphere of trust CAN BE DONE. They do it in Torrance every day and the refinery hasn't been run out of business. It took a major lawsuit and several years for them to get there, but now the city and the refinery have a very close working relationship.

I think we can achieve that here, but not if the community sits on its hands and just hopes for the best.

We have to ask questions and if we don't understand the answers, we have to keep after it.

If Big West has employee and community safety top of mind, I'd think they'd be happy to engage in that kind of dialogue.

I guess if you see the pilot knock down 5 kamikazes in the bar before a flight, that isn't a passenger's business either.

Well, bad analogies aside, the point is that yes, it is a company's job to make profits. But also yes, it is Lois' job to get info to the people. If it is decided that the risks are far outpaced by the benefits, then it will go through. However, a company's bottom line should NEVER outweigh the safety of the people. I doubt if any of you have a problem with that. Surely even the staunchest capitalist doesn't believe that all corporations are squeeky clean and able to monitor themselves.

So, let's see how it pans out. Until then, the more info the better.

Now you are referring to a definate and deliberate unsafe act (drunk pilot) , which is no where near similar to what is going on in this scenario.

But much agreed.... we can ask all the questions we need to become better informed. This doesn't have to be the witch hunt it has turned out to be though. Can't the pitchforks and torches be set down for the time being?

Lois,

How bout for your next story you do something on all the industries in ths town that use ammonia and other dangersous chemicals?? Lets hear about how they report their releases and spills to the authorities..I think it would make some pretty interesting bird cage lining.  My guess is you have no interest in finding out what chemicals other industries are spilling around this town.

You say Big West needs to be more open with the community.  Maybe next time Big West should just let you be the project manager and all your buddies in the community can design the next expansion.  There are probably 50 different combinations of units they could use in an expansion.  They went for the most common combination used when and FCCU is used, ie an alky unit.  Whether it be HF or Sulfuric, when most plants put in an FCCU, they also add an alky.  IF you are going to spend 700 million, why wouldn't you put in an alky so you don't have to import it? 

Not really going to matter anyway.  My guess is Big West goes out of business before any expansion gets built.

http://www.bigwestca.com/bi...

Incase some one is passing through and wants to read up on Big West the refinery we are discussing

ronmexico:

We have reported — including in my column — the other businesses in Kern County (188) that use dangerous chemicals on the level of modified HF.

And I have complained in my last column that other refineries/industries in populated areas should also come under a stricter reporting criteria for spills and leaks.

I'm an equal opportunity complainer, ronmexico.