No, krgal, we have abortion because it's the best alternative in many, many cases.

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God's word clearly speaks against eating shrimp, too.   

We don't want you to "accept" sin.  We just want you to keep your nose out of other peoples' families.

"we have abortion because it's the best alternative in many, many cases." 

Rfactor...that is not true.  Abortion takes innocent life and for no good reason.  It is not the child's fault that someone either got pregnant through unprotected sex or was raped.  Please do not misunderstand me and think that I do not have compassion for people.  I do.  I cry with others when bad things happen (I've had my own share of heartaches) to them, and my heart goes out to someone who is raped, but I would not want them to abort an innocent child.  Adoption is always available.  

LOL...(no offense) but your argument about the shrimp is a moot point.  First of all God was talking to the Jewish people and it was in the old testament (under the law).  Secondly, when God was talking about homosexuality, He was talking to ALL people, Jews and Gentiles alike (and it's found in both the old and new testaments).   

Sorry, but when it comes to "the family unit", I'm going to put my nose in there and say what is wrong.  You probably have the philosophy "to live and let live", am I correct?  I'm sorry, but that is not my philosophy.  I want to honor God with what I do and say, and I would not be honoring Him if I keep quiet on this issue.

I pray that you have a wonderful day...and I really do mean that.     

It *IS* true, and you can't make it not so by declaring it. 

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My argument about shrimp is *ON-TARGET*.  The writer of Leviticus (who was *NOT* god) was *ALSO* talking to the Jewish people when he said nasty things about homosexuality, cotton/poly blend fabrics and not going to church if you need glasses.

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Where in the New Testament is it found that homosexuality is wrong?  And you should read Romans 1:33 before answering.

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You can put your nose in there, just don't be surprised if it comes back bloody.  Some folks are touchy about outsiders meddling in their families' business.  You do your god no honor by backing bigotry.

Y'see, you seem to think we haven't seen this crap a hundred times before.  It's been hashed out and hashed out.

I'm getting really tired of agreeing with you RF.

Jimmy Carter for Vice President!

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(feel better now?) 

Voted for him once.  Before I grew up. Not again. That's really not even funny, I will not get that out of my mind all day now.

We have procedures,some of them dangerous,to test if a fetus(baby) is going to have many disabilities~ some of which are not the "cute" variety. A friend of mine did all these tests and her child was born with no scull,six fingers and six toes,blind. The hospital and doctors convinced my friend that to let the baby die was the kindest thing~ so they gave her no water or food. She dehydrated and starved to death,my friend had the courage to stay with her till she passed,holding her and loving her. I saw many other children with sever disabilities whose birth parents could not handle them,and gave them up to the state....I can not judge another human being,and wish these issues were much more clear cut,but IMHO some cases abortion would be the kindest solution. That is why choice remains the best option.

Rfactor...I apologize...Moses (who was the author of Leviticus) was the one who said that.  And since you want to bring up Leviticus, I encourage you to read the following article/interview concerning homosexuality :  http://www.lifesitenews.com.... 

I will not argue you with you anymore.  I have said what I had to say.  Threats will not silence me when it comes to speaking out against what is wrong.  I do speak to you in love...not in hate...as you have done to me.  Please tell me now, who is the bigot?

As I said earlier, I do pray that you have a wonderful day.

KernRiverGal, you have been polite from where I can see, but where is it your place to interfere with people who want to be left alone?  If you believe in the Christian faith, you undoubtedly know that you try to bring people to Jesus first, and then persuade their consciences of what you believe are sins within Christianity.

You mentioned the value of human life.  Wouldn't you rather see this $100,000 go toward promoting the safe surrender programs for unwanted newborn babies?  Wouldn't you rather see it go to convalescent care for people in the final stages of their lives?

Interfering with the lives of people who have not first chosen to accept your savior and adopt your faith is un-Christian and anti-humanitarian.  Until you first convince individual persons of the truth of your faith, you might as well be speaking Russian to them.

Dear Apollo...

Thank you for your comments.  Please allow me to respond to you. 

First of all, I am not interfering with their lifestyle.  If a person chooses to live in a homosexual lifestyle, they are adults and are allowed to do so.  Do I agree with them?  No (and I think that I've been clear as to why)...but it is their right.  I do not agree; however, with the fact that they should be allowed to be married.  And this has nothing to do with bigotry as was stated earlier.  

You are correct that I believe in the value of life.  How do we know that Mr. Bolthouse has not taken on that cause as well?  I still think that his donating to this cause is the right thing to do.  

You are right that I can not change others to believe the way that I do.  But how is a person supposed to know what is right and what is wrong if it is not shown to them?  We are supposed to be the light and the salt in the world...and that doesn't mean that we have to keep quiet.  How does a child know not to cross a street with oncoming cars?  They are shown...they are taught.  I believe that this demonstrates love.   

If I have said anything in a harsh tone, it was not my intention...and I apologize to anyone who believes that I have done so.  I will not; however, apologize for what I believe to be right (in accordance with the Bible). 

With that said, thank you again, and I pray that you have a wonderful day as well.

For all of you that buy 2 packages a year of Carrots    I just bought 2   and plan on many many more

I was buying Grimmway    but now Bolt house

Ron

KernRiverGal, I know your intentions are good, or I wouldn't be wasting time discussing it with you.  I don't waste a word on people who don't have good intentions.  Trying to use well-intended reasoning with people without good intentions is like trying to bribe a vegetarian with an all-meat pizza, and I see it as pointless.

But you say, "I do not agree; however, with the fact that they should be allowed to be married."

If you honestly don't believe in interfering with their lives, they don't need your approval to get married.  The fact that you think they need your permission means you are intending to interfere with their lives.  The way that you scoff at the expression "live and let live" tells me that you envision for yourself some right to interfere with the lives of non-Christian people.

How would you feel if you were planning to get married, and some joker whom you don't even know said that you shouldn't be allowed to get married for some reason that you don't understand?

There is not a word, not one word in the Bible that directs you to lecture the world on your idea of right and wrong.

Your mission, according to Jesus Christ, is to spread the Gospel and win converts to your spiritual path.

Only then can you begin to lecture them on Biblical right and wrong and expect it to carry any weight with them.  Not before.

 Yippee! I have a new nick-name for all the hating-breeders: Carotene-freaks!

Think I'll get t-shirts printed up. Come to think of it: My wedding colors will be Orange and White, instead of Black and White.

Flippin' hetero-haters make me laugh!

Well, if the popular vote always prevailed, all you white folk would still be fightin' to keep yo slaves! 

Thank you, President Lincoln!!!

Grimmway is a bigger processor than Bolthouse. Bolthouse is not a farmer, by the way: the company is a processor, packager and marketer. It contracts with individual growers to grow carrots to their specifications.

As for the issue of federal farming subsidies, Bolthouse doesn't qualify under the 2002 farm bill, but could under the new 2008 farm bill, but not for direct payments. The farmers who sell carrots to Bolthouse would qualify for direct payments. Bolthouse may get some agricultural money for market development, but otherwise, no.

The company benefits more from things like illegal immigration, tax policy, and the like, but not federal farm payments.

The family's fundamental religion is well-known in agricultural circles. The Grimm family s also quite religious but I doubt the former Mrs. Grimm (not sure what her new married name is) will donate money to a cause like this.

Way to go Bolthouse.  It is about time someone stand up for what they believe to be wrong and to speak out about it - also to finance it!

Hey NancyII,

You ironically suggest that gays are only interested in causes when they affect their own group.  But have YOU ever noticed how so many religious people get involved in things that DON'T affect them in the least? 

If I married a man, how would that make your marriage worse, better, more exciting, less valid, spicey, less sexually satisfying, or anything else?  Is there some magic spell I'm not aware of that can only be inflicted upon heterosexuals when two men or two women say wedding vows?

I counted at least half a dozen comments from you, so I'm sure you're discussing this at your little Church Lady socials on Sundays, but you really need to take a history class and learn how many similar Civil Rights issues were railed against by Conservative Republican Christians in U.S. history...it's just about ALL of them.  They voted for Segregation and against the Civil Rights Act.  They voted against Women's Suffrage.  They support the Occupation of Iraq.  They supported the horrors of McCarthyism and then the lies and criminal activities of that racist Richard Nixon.  They voted against Child Labor Laws, unions, and the 40-hour work week.

Just how many times does your group have to be wrong before you learn your lesson and stop spreading the hate?  Or is your self-esteem really so low that you can't manage to go on living without a group to piss all over?

Bingo !!

Dear kernrivergal63:

What the people of Kern County (like you) so often forget is that we don't create laws based on your religious beliefs (or anyone else's).  If we did, you'd find yourself living under quite different circumstances.  I often find myself in the position of teaching Christians their own religion - so few of them have actually read their own Bible, relying instead upon some leader in their church to read it and offer sermons that are hand-selected to create a myth within a myth.

The truth is, the Bible talks about burning people alive, stoning them to death, cutting off/out parts of their bodies, owning slaves, denying women their rights, and many other horrific things.  People often tell me that they ignore those parts, offering up some excuse or another (e.g., Jesus returned and everything changed).  Poppycock!  Jesus said, "I have not come to destroy the law or the prophets, I come to fulfill. Not one Jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law until all be fulfilled."  In other words, there's no reason for you or anyone else to ignore or deny a SINGLE rule in that book.  So, as a woman, you are to REMAIN SILENT.  You also cannot own property, and your husband is to make ALL decisions for you.  If your children talk back to you, you are to kill them.  All of this and more awaits you if you start basing U.S. law on Biblical teachings.

But you won't, will you?  You're just pull out those sections that your Pastor told you are there, and you'll remain ignorant of the rest.  You won't know that it says that you can't sow two types of seeds in the same soil, or that you're not allowed to eat pork, or that the proper way to deal with leprosy is to "Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient's right ear, thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering."

Oh, and somewhere in all that craziness, it also says that two men shouldn't have sex.  Funny how, out of ALL THOSE RULES, it's only the one that can't affect YOU that you're concerned with.

Hey Sheldon.  Lets take a look at your post on a topic that was put to bed a month ago.  I'll break it down for you to make it easier for you to understand.  I'll even use little words so you won't have any trouble.   Why you dredged up this topic is a mystery to me but my guess is you're just looking to stir up some dust.  

You ironically suggest that gays are only interested in causes when they affect their own group.  But have YOU ever noticed how so many religious people get involved in things that DON'T affect them in the least? 

Apparently you don't read well here because I was talking about how PEOPLE usually don't get involved in a cause until it strikes close to home and even cited Cats comment as the reason it came to mind.  I mentioned that in my qualifying statement and wasn't even referring to gays although they could be included.  I was talking in general about childrens diabetes and so on as well as gay rights.

If I married a man, how would that make your marriage worse, better, more exciting, less valid, spicey, less sexually satisfying, or anything else?  Is there some magic spell I'm not aware of that can only be inflicted upon heterosexuals when two men or two women say wedding vows?  

Not once, not ever, have I said anything about gay marriage affecting my marriage (since I'm not marrie,  or anyone elses.  You'd need to show me where I said anything remotely like that.

I counted at least half a dozen comments from you, so I'm sure you're discussing this at your little Church Lady socials on Sundays, but you really need to take a history class and learn how many similar Civil Rights issues were railed against by Conservative Republican Christians in U.S. history...it's just about ALL of them.  They voted for Segregation and against the Civil Rights Act.  They voted against Women's Suffrage.  They support the Occupation of Iraq.  They supported the horrors of McCarthyism and then the lies and criminal activities of that racist Richard Nixon.  They voted against Child Labor Laws, unions, and the 40-hour work week.

Now you're either delusional or laboring under a misaprehension because not only do I not belong to a little church lady social group, I don't even belong to a church.  And I'd like you to also show me where I ever denied gays rights.  I've said all along that civil unions between gays should be allowed and that they should have rights to insurance, health decisions, survivorship, and anything else they need.  The only thing I've EVER said about the rights issue had to do with the word marriage and no, I do not believe they should be married in the traditional sense.  As I've stated numerous times on here (and the gay rights marriage advocates can back me up) is that my objections are not religious ones.  Note the word NOT.  You seem to have overlooked that little word.  In fact, you've overlooked most of what I had to say about this topic over time.  If you really did, indeed, read my posts.

Just how many times does your group have to be wrong before you learn your lesson and stop spreading the hate?  Or is your self-esteem really so low that you can't manage to go on living without a group to piss all over?

Once again, I have no "group" to spread anything with and, in fact, this topic rarely even comes up.  You're a foul mouthed little bigot Mr. Sheldon, and my gay friends would probably be interested in your bitter tirade about me hating and "pissing" all over them.

And in closing, my self esteem is just fine thank you.  However, after your rant filled post I definitely question yours.

Sheldon,

I'm sure that you make your Parents proud.................................NOT! They're really good people.

From the Family Research Council, which recently enthusiastically endorsed the two-year boycott of Ford Motor Company by fellow far right "religious" nutcase Donald Wildmon's American Family Association:

Is This Union Label?
Date: July 1, 2008 - Tuesday
==========
Stories of the homosexual lobby intimidating companies and individuals who stand up for man-woman marriage are becoming more and more common:
In Massachusetts, during a petition drive to get a state marriage amendment on the ballot, homosexual activists called people who signed the petition and threatened them with lawsuits or worse.

Boston public school teachers were threatened with
termination if they failed to portray so-called homosexual "marriage" in a positive light.

Michigan's largest homosexual activist group says once marriage is legally redefined to include homosexual couples, business owners and even news media outlets that refuse to recognize such marriages should be jailed, or sued and
"publicly slapped."

In California we are hearing similar stories, but now the intimidation tactics are being endorsed by one of the nation's largest unions -- the AFL-CIO.

Homosexual advocates, with the powerful backing of national union leaders, are calling for a boycott of Bolthouse Farms, a California company that provides organic juices, lemonades, and smoothies to places like Whole Foods and
other organic markets, simply because one of the minority owners donated money to the petition drive to put a marriage amendment on the ballot.
This is another harbinger of how homosexual activists want Christians who opposeh omosexual "marriage" to be treated -- shut out of the public square with no recourse.

Please contact the national AFL-CIO to let it know such tactics are intolerable. As people of religious faith and moral conviction who believe that marriage is between one man and one woman -- we will not be silenced.

Contact the AFL-CIO today and show them that suppressing free speech is not what they bargained for!
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm....

Please take a minute now to forward this Alert to your family, friends, church groups and others. This year presents so many key opportunities, and we need to grow the FRC team to take advantage of these opportunities.

Maggie, you're still an idiot.  Sorry, I forgot to add that last night.  But it was late..or early, depending your your point of view.

(Jason, my apologies, I know that was a no-no, I just couldn't restrain myself any longer. )    <{:-)

You can also contact the AFL-CIO to donate money or time for the cause....http://www.frc.org/get.cfm....

Hotandfoggy said, "going down in SF".

Great. A double whammy. Trample on gay rights and stifle those pesky unions.

Ain`t the USA grand ? So much to do all the time.... Idle hands are the devil`s work...

At least we have seen the limits to the bigots' funding and manpower, at least in California. They had to abandon their paranoid anti-SB777 crusade in order to press forward on this.  Ten years ago, they could have funded and mobilized enough foot soldiers for both crusades quite effortlessly.

Times they are a changin,,, ...was " manpower" the politically correct word to "insert" there ?

I intentionally used "manpower" for its retro effect.

 KernRiverGal, I 100% Agree with u..... You ROCK! I think everything u said is true because the way i see it u haven't offended anyone and u r not getting in people's way of gay marriage so i just wanted to let u know that I'm on your side and don't let anyone else make u change your mind....