From the disent opinion by Justice Moreno:

"The rule the majority crafts today not only allows same-sex
couples to be stripped of the right to marry that this court recognized in the
Marriage Cases, it places at risk the state constitutional rights of all disfavored
minorities.  It weakens the status of our state Constitution as a bulwark of
fundamental rights for minorities protected from the will of the majority.  I
therefore dissent."
 

The people have spoken...twice. The gays need to get over it and get on with life.

The people have gotten it wrong...twice.  We'll give them as many chances as they need to get it right.

ghost ~I love you and completly understand where you are coming from.

However, the decision today made all of us a little less safe in regards to civil rights.In my opinion.

I am glad my friends marriage will stand.I do not think this will go away.

The second time less people spoke in favor of banning gay marriage than in the first time.

It's just a matter of time, so get used to the fact.

Here's an interesting tidbit from today's ruling:  The California Supreme Court all but said legal gay marriages from other states would be honored in California. There's no other way of interpreting their decision on allowing the marriages before the election to stand.

The California Supreme Court all but said legal gay marriages from other states would be honored in California. There's no other way of interpreting their decision on allowing the marriages before the election to stand.

I don't see that necessarily.   It could be that marriages performed elsewhere during the "window" last year are upheld.  One of thousands of loose ends left by this Dred decision.

The decision turned out what most credible sources predicted. Does this mean we can finally take a break from this devisive issue?

Thanks, sage. I know you understand. I also know my feelings regarding this are unpopular on this blog. I just find it difficult to get past my issues. However, I do realize that this forwards the efforts of big government, something I usually have a problem with. This is so hard....

The decision turned out what most credible sources predicted. Does this mean we can finally take a break from this devisive issue?

Nope.  It's not settled yet. 

Catpaw, we can take a break until the next general election.  Any decision made at the ballot box can be overturned at the ballot box, and I'm sure you would not want to deprive all of the pro-same-sex-marriage kids who will turn 18 in the next 4 years their chance to have a say in the matter.

Meanwhile, this from Justice Werdegar's concurrence: 

Accordingly, all three branches of state government continue to have the duty, within their respective spheres of operation, today as before the passage of Proposition 8, to eliminate the remaining important differences  between marriage and domestic partnership, both in substance and perception. The measure puts one solution beyond reach by prohibiting the state from naming future same-sex unions “marriages,” but it does not otherwise affect the state’s obligation to enforce the equal protection clause by protecting the “fundamental right . . . of same-sex couples to have their official family relationship accorded the same dignity, respect, and stature as that accorded to all other official recognized family relationships.” (Marriage Cases, supra, at p. 830.) For the state to meet its obligations under the equal protection clause will now be more difficult, but the obligation remains.

RF I don't see that necessarily.   It could be that marriages performed elsewhere during the "window" last year are upheld.  One of thousands of loose ends left by this Dred decision.

ya but those marriages will be over soon enough cause they were mostly older gays that waited a life time..the younger ones arent ready to settle down yet..still got too much premiscuity in their veins..

those relativley few marriages will die off in no time given the death rate between gay couples suffering from AIDS etc..

another ridiculous thing you guys keep saying is the YOUNG will over turn it..I dont know what young people hang out around your house but the load of kids we know from 4H schools foster agencies etc  sure dont share your enthusiasum..

The Federal government needs to take a proactive approach and rule on this now. It makes me sick to think of the millions of dollars spent by both sides, state by state, and the heartache for everyone involved. The Supreme Court will ultimately make the decision eventually, but I think it would be prudent to do it sooner rather than later.

And frankly, at this point, I really don't care one way or the other. I have Gay Marriage Fatigue and I'm sick of hearing about. And sick of blogging about it.

Catpaw,

The court decided that California voters, with a simple majority, can change the California Constituation's stance on the issue of same-sex marriage.

Can you see either side in this fight giving up?

My humble prediction: This issue will be on every general election for the foreseeable future, no matter which side wins.

Find out who donated money for and against Proposition 8 at http://www.sfgate.com/webdb...

Donations are public record.

sioux city said,

another ridiculous thing you guys keep saying is the YOUNG will over turn it..I dont know what young people hang out around your house but the load of kids we know from 4H schools foster agencies etc  sure dont share your enthusiasum..

Well, Sioux, consider the possibility that the kids you know won't speak their minds for fear of being taken out to the woodshed and "learned a lesson".

The teens that I am acquainted with are mostly community theater kids I know from Stars, Spotlight, BCT etc. They are against Prop. 8 about 10 to 1.   The statistics from the last election demonstrated that  voters under 30 were against Prop. 8 about 70% to 30%, and this probably accurately reflects the opinions of those who will become eligible to vote in the next few years.

The couples who I know who got married run across all age groups.  Again holding to stereotypes of any group is a limited perspective.

The future is not ours to know~ but I agree this issue will be voted on again and again.Till the Supreme Court rules,and even that can be revisited.

The education campaign has already begun.

 The teens that I am acquainted with are mostly community theater kids I know from Stars, Spotlight, BCT etc. They are against Prop. 8 about 10 to 1.  

because people like you tend to do that to young, pliable minds

because people like you tend to do that to young, pliable minds

Learnem,

I'm glad that gopherbro is a positive influence on today's youth. Teens face many hardships. They need good role models. Teens who are gay or confused about their sexual orientation have a high rate of depression and suicide, so it's important for people who care about teens to not be judgemental. They aren't doing anything to hurt you.  

did ya catch the kids hes talking about learnem..mostly community theater kids?? pulezzzee not near as many ballet dancers as there are normal street kids everyone knows that..

that old woodshed seems to have been such a big influence in you life for what ever reason goph..the impact of those 'learned lessons' must have been herindous  for a pee wee herman wanna be..yuk yuk..your one sad individual..

and granting them the right to wed will stop those suicide attempts hot and foggy (good name by the way)..I dont think so.they know somethings not wired right

now due to  inpu t from guys like gopher perpetuating it instead of really trying to fix them so they can have a normal life..its been proven its no genetic..its learned..why cant you people just admit it and stop stirring the pot trying to build a larger community to hide in..

"Surrounded as I am now by wonderful children and grandchildren, not a day goes by that I don’t think of Richard and our love, our right to marry, and how much it meant to me to have that freedom to marry the person precious to me, even if others thought he was the “wrong kind of person” for me to marry. I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry. Government has no business imposing some people’s religious beliefs over others. Especially if it denies people’s civil rights."

- Mildred Loving, who had to fight in court for the right to marry the man she loved because he was Black.
 

CANNOT COMPARE THE ISSUE OF RACE AND SEXUAL PREFERENCE...APPLES AND ORANGES

NICE TRY THO

boy they will pull out the race card every chance they get..just shows not much else around to make it right so they start grabbin for things no matter how Insignificant to further their cause

CANNOT COMPARE THE ISSUE OF RACE AND SEXUAL PREFERENCE...APPLES AND ORANGES

 Same with race and religious preference, or race and gender.  Yet all are protected classes under the law.

.

For those looking for a thoughtful analysis* of what Prop 8 *DOESN'T* do:

 http://www.dailykos.com/sto....

*(that lets out anyone who balks at the Dailykos link.  The poster argues that Prop 8 "cut the label off" of same-sex marriages, but didn't end them.)

 and granting them the right to wed will stop those suicide attempts

It'll help.

CANNOT COMPARE THE ISSUE OF RACE AND SEXUAL PREFERENCE

Maybe you can't because your little brain won't wrap around it, but it absolulely is a legitimate comparison.

And just like you lost the battle in trying to keep whites from marrying blacks, you'll lose this battle as well.

As I wrote in another blog, if Conservatives were smart they would pull back. Let men marry  men, women marry women and legalize abortion on demand. In three generations there would be very few Liberals left.

There would be very few Republican male politicians left too.

Although my marriage is still legal (which is bothersome to many, I'm sure- all I can say to that is mind your own marriage), I am disappointed that it is now "ok" to legalize descrimination by putting it on a ballot.

However, I am wise enough to know that change takes time.  Sometimes, it takes a whole lot of time.  Civil rights don't happen overnight.

As for those who use their religious convictions and the Bible to justify everything...all I can say is this...if Christians can get over what the Bible has to say about women & shrimp, then it is only a matter of time before they will get over the gay thing too...which will mostly be people getting over nasty stereotypes.

Change takes time.  Equality will eventually prevail.

TSM: you are so right,  

I'll wager any amount of money that my generation will eventually overturn prop 8.

The vast majority of 20-somethings currently have the attitude of "to each his own."   I think I have a better understanding of the general consensus for my peers than someone in their 40's, 50's or even older.

here we go again..race card and religion..cant anyone just accept the fact its something that goes against how the majority of hetro people feel about same sex partners..if they dont then they usually have a tie to the gay community that they feel needs defending..

trust me its no excuses just a fact of life..you expect us to understand where your coming from yet you wont step back and accept the reality of where we are coming from either..

whatever im just banging my head against a wall here..have fun sorry about your luck..

FSG hahah hay genius we invented 'to each his own' when i was a teen....i thought you were a history buff..

FYI ...FSG..people change as they get older and that 'to each his own' crap kinda disappears when it starts effecting you and your kids etc..but if it makes you feel better go for it..you got it under control baby..

Off topic but worth noting - There were two other blogs about this topic with a lot of comments. Those blogs are now gone, along with the blogger. I never bother commenting on that guys blogs anymore as I know it's just a matter of time before he's kicked off again, so why waste the time? I can spot that guy a mile away, and I'm sure most of you can as well. DON'T FEED THE TROLL!!

Sioux, you aren't taking into account the fact that the demographics of the average public school in this country have completely changed over the past few decades.  Whereas in the 50's and 60's there was segregation and then the eventual de-segregation, most youth are now introduced to various cultures, backgrounds, races and creeds before they can even spell correctly.  Today, it's perfectly normal for the average child to be friends with Christians, Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Agnostics, Pagans, Hindus, Caucasians, Asians, Blacks, Native Americans, Latinos, etc.

Sure, there are still plenty in my age group who tend to be conservative, and I'm sure most of us will change over time in one way or another - however, our upbringing has had more diversity than any previous generation - and each generation following ours has had more exposure than we have. 

50 years ago, people like you would have claimed that there would never be a Black President, and lo and behold, look what happened!

i think your aging me alot more than the truth there FSG..besides all this whiny crap when you got this to think about..here is your future deal with it..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/...

heheh ya vanity i noticed that too..it took Jason a bit longer than usual to put two and two togetheer this time but he always gets his man..er whatever is hanging out infront of that monitor Moose etc etc hides behind..

lets all give Jason a BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE

Sioux

The young will overturn it.   Where do you get your information supporting your statement that young people are as opposed to gay civil rights as older people are? 

This survey was taken in 2004.  More recent surveys taken by Hamilton College suggest an even stronger showing of support for gay rights among young people. The survey was sponsored by the Center for Democracy & Citizenship at The Council for Excellence in Government and Circle (the Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning and Engagement).  It is the largest survey of young people on gay rights issues since last November's  Massachusetts Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage when the debate became more prominent in Washington and state houses across the country. 

The percentage of young people who support and oppose rights for gays and lesbians are:  

Equal Protection in Housing:  Support 86%   Oppose 10%

Equal Protection in Employment  Support 85%  Oppose 14%

Equal Protection in Housing  Support 86%  Oppose 10%

Equal protection in Employment  Support 85%  Oppose 14%

Equal Protection from Hate Crimes  Support 85%   Oppose 13%

Civil Unions or Legal Partnerships   Support 63%  Oppose 30 %

Ability to Marry    Support  56%  Oppose  39%

Ability to Adopt Children  Support  53%  Oppose 39%

This issue will be left up to these people one day.   Gay Marriages will happen.

The substantive battle has been won.  Fifteen years ago committed gay couples had no rights whatsoever under California State law.  Today's decision makes clear that the only difference that can be allowed  due to Prop. 8 is the name. "Domestic partnership" for same sex couples, "marriage" for opposite sex couples.  Otherwise the rights and obligations of the two groups have to be identical.

"Separate but equal" has always been a stupid concept. Even though 53% of the electorate voted for it, it is still a stupid concept. Very, very soon a majority of the voters will realize how stupid the concept is and Prop. 8 will be repealed.

Sioux

Give me one example of how allowing gay couple's to marriage will affect you.  Other than forcing you to find another group to feel superior to, I mean.

Do you waste a lot of your time worrying what your neighbors are up to?   I can assure you, they're not wasting one moment of their lives contemplating and attempting  to control what you do in your bedroom. 

But I'm  curious why this bothers you to the degree that you want to control someone's sexual behavior.

I wasn't going to even bother posting but AudreyB got the better of me. :)

You just admitted :

I'm  curious why this bothers you to the degree that you want to control someone's sexual behavior.

Ones sexual behavior or preference is not a Constitutional Issue!! Stop trying to act like it is some race or slavery issue.

 i think your aging me alot more than the truth there FSG

1) it's you're

2) Unless your birthdate listed on your profile is inaccurate, you're in your mid 50's.  Considering my parents were born a few years before your listed birthdate, I'd say I'm accurate in assuming that you went to school in the 50's and 60's.

 Ones sexual behavior or preference is not a Constitutional Issue!! Stop trying to act like it is some race or slavery issue.

Sexual orientation is a civil rights issue. 

Yes, sexuality is not part of the constitution, but neither is marriage.  Therefore, by your very argument, I could argue that marriage is not a constitutional issue either, and therefore should not be exploited by the State.  In essence, from a completely constitutional sense, the State doesn't really have the right to discriminate based upon marital status, and therefore the State should have no part to play in the institution of marriage.  Instead, it is my belief that in order to ensure that individuals have the proper authority to bestow certain legal rights to whomever they please (such as the decisions spouses are allowed to make regarding certain extraordinary medical circumstances when the other spouse is not able to mentally or physically speak for themselves), that instead of State-sponsored marriage, the State should provide each individual adult with the opportunity to bestow such rights upon an individual they so choose, whether it be a family member, partner or friend. 

Since when does the Government have the right to deny the rights of individuals based upon sexual orientation?

Ones sexual behavior or preference is not a Constitutional Issue!!  

You're right.  That's why this shouldn't even be debated.  It should be a given that Gays can Marry just like anyone else, without the state, or religion butting in.

I'st a human right which can't be voted away, legislated away or taken away in a court of law. 

It's NOBODY's business other than the two people involved.

Well, I have to say that I am tired of hearing about Prop 8.  We voted twice, the people spoke, but that isn't good enough for the gays.  I don't care about people being gay, that is fine as long as I don't have to look, hear or see it.  I don't think being a homosexual is normal and I don't want my kids to grow up thinking it's normal.  Actually they think it's disgusting and that is because they see it at some of the local high schools.  I think it's time to stop wasting money on this nonsense.  Everyone has the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex.  Afterall, what if God would have made man and man.  That would have been the end of it.  There's a reason why there are men and women.  Deal with it.  The gay community always wants to be accepted but then you see the pictures of gay pride parades and they act like freaks and they want to be respected for acting that way.  I think this issue needs to go away, and in the end it doesn't matter whether it passes or not, God isn't going to say it's okay on judgment day just because California said it was.  It seems society is glamorizing it for the teenagers, they want to be different, get attention, etc...  I agree with Siouxcity, more street kids than ballet dancers.  And that's why it's up to us and not society to raise our children, things have definitely not gotten better over the past 30 years, have they?  I don't think so, crime, teenage pregnancy, alcoholism, drugs, it's all out of hand and it's because people are saying it's okay to not have morals, you don't have to take accountability.  It doesn't take a village to raise a child like Hillary stated, it just takes two accountable, responsible parents.

  but that isn't good enough for the gays.

It's not good enough for a lot of people.

FSG 50 years ago, people like you would have claimed that there would never be a Black President, and lo and behold, look what happened!

I was five years old math genius..I didnt care who the president was.

Audrey I wont go over the list AGAIN..and AGAIN..its over we won..let it go..and you most of all should know what im saying is true about peoples prioritys changing as you get older...being stuck in the 60's and 70's aint as cool as it used to be..The majority of that era have grown up and moved on..not all but the majority..being totally open minded and ready to accept anything and everything that some ding aling tries to shove down your throat not to mention the old peace love dove line is a childs metaphor

 The gay community always wants to be accepted but then you see the pictures of gay pride parades and they act like freaks and they want to be respected for acting that way.

You took the words right out of my mouth with just this line! I usually don't say much about these things b-cuz they get me so worked up. I'm young 23 and I'm a supporter of prop 8. I know a lot of kids that will be able to vote who don't agree with gay marriage b-cuz they say its gross. They may change who knows I changed but I was a supporter of gay marriage and went to support against it.

 I was five years old math genius..I didnt care who was president..

You obviously missed the point (and maybe you should clean those reading glasses of yours, or if you don't use such an item, invest in some) - I wasn't specifically talking about YOU with that statement.  My point was that people like you aren't willing to look at progress - you care only about the status quo, and in some cases regression.  However, people like me constantly question the status quo and ask, "what if?" 

SOME PEOPLE, (not you) 50 years ago probably never would have thought that we'd have a black President because they weren't willing to use foresight.  People like Dr. Martin Luther King and others did have foresight and knew that one day things would change for the better.  I'm one of those people who is willing to make such statements.  The reality, Sioux, is that one day, the majority of Americans will support the civil rights of all individuals, whether you believe it or not, like it or not.

Therefore, by your very argument, I could argue that marriage is not a constitutional issue either, and therefore should not be exploited by the State. 

It really shouldn't.  State should get out of the business of validating/invalidating one's marriage.

 The gay community always wants to be accepted but then you see the pictures of gay pride parades and they act like freaks and they want to be respected for acting that way.

So you believe that the actions of a few dictate the actions of many?  I have quite a few homosexual friends, and none of them have ever, or would ever participate in those events. 

. I know a lot of kids that will be able to vote who don't agree with gay marriage b-cuz they say its gross.

I believe that eating mayo is gross, but I'm not about to call for a ban of Hellman's. 

Tell me, how exactly does a homosexual marriage affect you?  How does it impose on your rights as an American?