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rightthinking - > Right Thinking -> Anti-spanking official should butt out
Anti-spanking official should butt out

Moms and dads who believe toddlers benefit from an occasional spanking might want to close the curtains and soundproof the house. If a certain Sacramento busybody has her way, parents who slap hands or swat fannies could end up in jail.

To spank or not to spank is a decision most parents are capable of making without the government's help, but Mountain View Assemblywoman Sally Lieber believes when it comes to our kids the Legislature knows best.

Lieber plans to introduce a bill next week that would outlaw spanking children up to 3 years of age. Should she manage to push the bill through, it will make California the first state in the country to ban parents from spanking their kids.

If the thought of such blatant government intrusion isn't scary enough, Lieber promises the bill "will be written broadly," meaning one parent's idea of loving discipline could very well be a nosy neighbor's idea of abuse.

Rational parents, including those opposed to corporal punishment, understand the difference between a carefully delivered spanking and child abuse. But Lieber -- who has no children, but does have a cat she really likes -- makes no such distinctions.

When speaking with reporters about her bill, Lieber repeatedly uses terms like "beat," "whip" and "punch," insisting that, under current law, "parents can beat their children to a reasonable degree."

Lieber, who apparently was so swamped with media calls about her bill she had no time to return mine, told reporters Thursday "we ought to have a law against beating children," as if there were none already on the books. But there are plenty of them, as any police officer or Child Protective Services official can tell you.

What an arrogant and intrusive proposal. It's a piece of legislation that some child experts, like Diana Baumrind, a research psychologist with the Family Socialization Project at the University of California, Berkeley says could seriously harm children by undermining parental authority.

"Any act by society that overrides the authority of the parent has serious consequences for family relations," Baumrind says. "Education, not legislation, is the method of choice to improve parent practices, with the exception of clearly abusive practices."

Baumrind, who defines spanking as "physically noninjurious punishment administered with an open hand to the buttocks," says spanking or any other punishment should be reserved for times when methods like persuasion or distraction don't work. She believes that spanking a child under age 2 is ineffective, but the short- and long-term effects on children older than that are "no more or less harmful than a mild scolding or time-out."

Child experts may disagree on the issue of spanking, but even some opposed to the practice are aghast at the idea of Lieber's law, punishable by up to a year in jail or a fine of up to $1,000.

"Do I think it's a wise parenting choice?" asked Cathy Seguine, a local licensed clinical social worker. "No, but we already have laws that protect children from abuse. And I don't like the idea of legislating parenting."

No parent does. Lieber's idea is not only arrogant, it's dangerous. It's a slippery slope proposal that, if passed, would further erode parenting rights in California, could cause irreparable harm to families and turn friends and neighbors into snitches.

If she's smart, Lieber will back off, butt out and leave the parenting to parents.

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posted by rightthinking on Monday, January 22, 2007 at 07:15 AM
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13 comments from 10 users

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posted by randomfactor on Jan 22, 2007 at 07:50 AM
3054.
posted by anonymous on Jan 22, 2007 at 08:08 AM

You are right. To spank or not to spank is a decision that parents can make without the government's help.

As can one choose the gender of his spouse without the government's help.

 

posted by freethinker on Jan 22, 2007 at 08:15 AM
This is one of the few times I'll agree..i couldnt believe it when i heard this on the news.  I'm just.. speechless. sigh.
posted by randomfactor on Jan 22, 2007 at 08:26 AM

And decide whether or not to bring a pregnancy to full term without the government's help.

posted by anonymous on Jan 22, 2007 at 08:43 AM
The problem with todays society is there aren't enough parents spanking! Kids have no respect for authority or fear of consequences. It needs to start when they are young, it's too late to try to fix them when they are 15 or 16. Wasn't the world just a little better when kids knew if they got too far out of line they would recieve a butt whoopin'. I say send kids to churh, to teach fear of consequences and bring back the swatting in school.
posted by YGH on Jan 22, 2007 at 08:53 AM
I believe spanking is left up to the parents.

Before I knew my son was ADHD, my son over-reacted at Toys R Us in Fresno because he didn't get the toy he wanted. He made a heck of a fit. I told him to stop and told him to stop and told him to stop and told him to stop (get the picture?)... But he did NOT. I sat on the floor away from everyone and spanked his butt. That is all I did.

To make long stressful story shorter, the cops were called. Some #$*&ing lady drove by and told the cops that I BEAT my son. The cops went in and looked at the video and saw that I didn't.

I also had a big black guy, in a Toys R Us uniform, threaten to 'beat my ass' (his words, not mine) if I didn't stop spanking my son. I found out later, he got fired.

There was two cops, a good cop and a bad cop. The bad cop called my husband to tell him that I spanked my son and if he want me to be taken to jail. Of course he said no. The bad cop was rude and loud and still threatened to take me to jail. The good cop was calm and gave my son a teddy bear ...

You can say that I never returned to that Toys R Us and everytime I drive by my son reminds me of that incedent. With my husband working retail he heard that story at work.

Its my progitive to punish my child without being brutal. My son use to be uncontrollable. I got, whats the word, repremanded if I let him act that way or if I punish him.

Now, my son is much better, he knows now that if I say no and he continues... he loses his playtime with neighbors or his game systems.


My son was five at the time of this. He is now 8.
posted by anonymous on Jan 22, 2007 at 09:13 AM
I think parents should only spank each other, not the kids.
posted by woofwoof on Jan 22, 2007 at 09:19 AM

I don't spank my kids, I tickle them.  That's punishment.  Then I say, why are you laughing, this isn't funny.  I can't wait till they grow up and tell that story.    

posted by TomW on Jan 22, 2007 at 09:39 AM
I hate this law.  The laws we need are already in place. 
posted by mattloch on Jan 22, 2007 at 10:42 AM
Woof, that's kind of like the "quit hitting yourself"-tactics that siblings use on each other. To quote Dennis Leary: "I've good kids, I love my kids. I try to bring them up the right way, not spanking them. I find that I don't have to spank them. I find that waving the gun around pretty much gets the same job done!"
posted by randomfactor on Jan 22, 2007 at 11:04 AM

YGH, I hope you got help for the ADHD afterward--and realize that spanking is *NOT* an effective treatment for ADHD.

posted by ProgressivePete2 on Jan 22, 2007 at 11:19 AM
any diagnosis aside and I mean no offense YGH, but If it were me in the Toys-R-Us situation, I would have just taken (dragged) the kid(s) out of the store and nobody gets anything. Then I would remain calm and remind the kid why he/she didn't get the toy. I'm thinking you left out quite a bit between taking him and spanking him and the cops being called. To try to shift the blame onto the staff at Toys-R-Us is not accepting that you possibly did something wrong. People around you sure thought you did enough to warrant a call to the police. That right there should tell you something. I'm sure you just let your anger get the best of you. It happens to the best of us.
posted by Christopherv on Jan 22, 2007 at 12:48 PM

There are several countries and many more provinces within some countries that have outlawed spanking.  The American Pediatric Association presents and distributes seminars and curriculum that try to convince parents here that spanking is barbaric and damaging.  Most of what I have seen might be classified as "junk science", in that the empirical citations are twisted or presented in a confluence that clearly distorts.  BUT, it is so seldom I ever see the information challenged by audience members where it is presented.  Social workers, physicians, school teachers, daycare workers, etc. are increasingly being presetned with the arguments made by this legislator.  Outside of Kern County, where religious - specifically Christian - ethics are still very much an influence on our public policy, there is little obvious or subtle rebuttal to the "no spanking" message.

The legislation while unwanted here, is catching on in other places and should be taken seriously.  What's even more intriguing are the outcome measures in countries where it is already law.  In carefully chosen euphemisms you can read how rates of "abuse" (which under the new rule = spanking, with or without "beating") have remained the same or risen slightly, BUT families receiving support and assistance are up significantly.  In other words, in these countries it is much more common to have the government's social service workers alongside of you as you raise your children.

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