I wonder what would have happened if students tried to pass out the Qur'an and were treated in the same manner, would we be reading about it here?

And here come the sheep!

I know someone who was in Bonetti's class and their observation is a bit different than the picture painted here.  All Stockdale students are told, in the school handbook and policies, that they must obtain permission before distributing ANY published materials on campus.  Bonetti did not get that permission.   I think he has a right to, as an individual, give out a gift to his classmates.  But, he could've and should've done that on his own time and off school property.  For one, it's divisive.  Second, by the time someone is graduating high school, you would think they'd own a Bible if they believed in Christianity.  So, I have to wonder what the point of this was?  The student I know, who is a Baptist, by the way, said that Bonetti's actions didn't exactly gel with the laid back description he provides.  There were students who were very uncomfortable with his actions (Christians included!).  The non-Christian students felt like Bonetti and his friends were trying to make an "us-v-them" statement.  Third, since when is a public school okay for proselytizing and evangelism?  But, I'm glad to know that it's okay for students to do this, I think I'll encourage some of the atheist teens in Bakersfield to hand out copies of Richard Dakwins, "The God Delusion" or Sam Harris' "Letters to a Christian Nation".  Shouldn't be a problem, right?

possummomma - I couldn't agree more.  In fact, Ms. Shrider here is incorrect when she states that civil rights were violated.  In a school setting, high school students do not have the freedoms that the first amendment provides - if they did, student newspapers would be allowed to print whatever content they deemed appopriate.

FSG, you'll find out that Shrider is incorrect about a lot of things. There's a reason that Rosa Brooks and Meghan Daum write for the L.A. Times, and Hagatha doesn't.

jbs - yes, I'm already finding that out.  I've already traded a few emails with her on another subject.  She has yet to respond to my latest, and it's been a number of days..

I have worked closely with Brant Bonetti for two years, and anyone who accuses him of being "divisive" or of proselytizing does not know him and does not have first-hand experience attending school with him.  Possummomma, I am afraid that the only accurate part of your post is your claim that a free bible is unlikely to turn someone to Christianity in some miraculous way.  You are right about that and, knowing Bonetti as I do, I would bet that he would agree too (in a calm and graceful manner).  But beyond that you seem to be off the mark.  You say that Bonetti's group did not receive permission to distribute published materials on campus.  But John Teves from KHSD said that the FCA "...followed every bit of that process; they did everything the right way... ."  You say that these gifts should have been distributed off of campus.  However, the FCA is a school-sanctioned organization and therefore has a right to distribute its materials on campus, given proper permissions.  You say that Bonetti creates an "us vs. them" environment.  I can only say that Bonetti is an extremely well-liked and well-respected student, and that this respect extends FAR beyond his fellow FCA members.  The atheist and agnostic and Muslim and Hindu students who attend class with Bonetti are not put off by him and are not put on the defensive and are not made uncomfortable.  I know this because I have seen him interact with students for two years.  You say that if I were to hold up a bible and ask if you would like to have it that I would be guilty of proselytizing and evangelism.  This action does not fit either of those terms unless one is applying them very loosely.  And lastly, you seem to believe that a student would somehow be considered "a problem" if he or she were to purchase and give away copies of Dawkins' or Harris' work at school, either as an individual or as part of a school club.  I hate to break this to you, but a student could do this quite easily (assuming he/she wanted to go to that level of trouble and expense, and assuming the school's educational mission was not interrupted) without incurring the wrath of the district.

Prominent local Christians like Chad Vegas and Marilee Shrider are shrill and judgmental and smug in their holiness.  They deserve to become targets for snarky people who like to post on public forums.  Brant Bonetti is calm and demonstrates a proper level of humility when he discusses complex social and religious issues.  There is a big difference between him and the type of religious posturing that rightfully annoys you.  Stockdale's Fellowship of Christian Athletes thought it would be a nice idea to distribute bibles as a gesture that would be consistent with their club's identity.  They followed the rules and then were improperly prevented from accomplishing that gesture.  Mrs. Shrider is obviously not an objective source on this matter, but as much as it pains me to say it, it appears that she is right.

And in case you are wondering about me, I am not a part of FCA and have not been to church in at least 18 months.

I am not posting to defend the author (I'm sure she is capable of taking care of herself), but you left-wingers here are so full of barnyard excretions that you are really smelling bad on this post.

Actually, I'm full of about 50 grams of whey/soy protein and 16 ounces of 2% milk. I just finished my chest workout about an hour ago.

Hey TrueBlu - why don't you back up your accusation with a real argument?

I personally find her humorous.  She's against abortion but for death penalty.....I don't get it.  I think only God should decide.  These brand of people is exactly what makes living in Bakersfield quite unbearable.  I guess that's why I moved :)

Kafka, please go back and re-read what I said.  For one, I did not call Mr. Bonetti "divisive".   I said the action was divisive.  The only personal statement I made about Bonetti is that the student felt his laid back impression wasn't entirely accurate.  And, by your own admission, he's not laid back (but very involved), so I'm not sure what you're arguing here.  From what I was told, the process for obtaining permission to distribute religious material or publications is different than, say, a student activities poster or pamphlet.  The rest of your critiques are based on opinion.  It is MY opinion that this type of activity was better suited off campus.  The "us-v-them" comment was not made by myself, but by those in his own class.  I'm sure he's a very nice young man, but that doesn't prohibit someone from seeing his actions as divisive.    Also, as for distributing other religious materials...can you show me where other students (non Christians) have done this?  I would love to see that backed up by some hard evidence.  For the record, what people can do and what they should do are often very different animals.  

If you walk up to me, in front of thirty other people, and ask me if I want a Bible on a public school campus, then you are asking me to disclose a very personal detail.  If  I accept your offer, then some might take that to mean I was a Christian.  If I do not take your Bible, then you've made my personal religious beliefs a public spectacle.  You've taken someones desire to keep religion/believe private and made it public.  If you don't see how that's inappropriate, then I'm very sorry.  Being a Christian does not give you, or anyone else, the right to expose the beliefs of another student. And, just because an action was done out of pure intentions to promote Christianity does not mean they are appropriate for a public school setting.

This kid is probably an amazing kid.  That's not what's being questioned.  I'm not even claiming that HE was divisive.  What I'm saying is that there are some who were made very uncomfortable by this and felt that if they didn't take the Bible, that they would be harassed.  In particular, a female Sikh student felt that, by not taking the Bible, all eyes were on her.  Is that right?  Should students feel as if they have to defend their beliefs in a place where they're supposed to be focusing on academics?

adocat:  "She's against abortion but for death penalty.....I don't get it."

It is a whole lot easier to understand this position than the opposite.... Snuff out the life of the innocent unborn, but spare the life of the murderer???

As a high school teacher years ago I was designated to assist the Gideon Society distribute Bibles at graduation. It was  America's textbook for many years, and America has suffered from the loss of it in our schools. No one has a legitimate claim to being educated that has not read the one book that has had more influence on Western Civilization than any other and continues to exert that influence on millions throughout the world. The abuse of the Bible by some for religious purposes is no excuse for being Biblically illiterate.

Our exchange student just graduated from Stockdale.  She went to pick up her diploma and came home with a Bible too.  She was actually quite impressed with the fact the the FCA (a STUDENT organization) was offering Bibles to anyone who wanted one.  She wasn't offended at all and according to her none of the students there were 'uncomfortable'.  She didn't feel (as an earlier poster wrote) that she was disclosing 'a very personal detail' in accepting or not accepting the Bible.  Had they passed out veggie-burgers and she declined one do you think she would have felt 'intimidated' or that her personal religious beliefs were on display?  I don't think so.

Good morning, all.

Some of you seem to be ignoring the fact that Bonetti followed local and state regulations to the letter and the school district readily admits that (Possum, you're are woefully misinformed). Also, Florida, Bonetti's civil rights were clearly violated and student newspapers CAN publish "content they deem appropriate" (guess you missed that recent ruling). As an aside, if you recently sent me an e-mail to which I have not responded, there is one of two reasons.  I received a number of lengthy e-mails after my last column and am responding to them as my schedule permits. Also, I do not respond to profane, irreverant, insulting or otherwise disrespectful messages. If your e-mail falls into the first catagory, you'll hear from me soon, if the second, not at all.

Students of all faiths, races and genders regularly print, post or hand out materials on our high school campuses. And ALL of them, including Bible-toting Christians, should be allowed to do so without harrasment, particularly from district officials who should know better. Bonetti and his fellow students were merely offering their friends a farewell gift of a Bible - classes were over, students were leaving - it was a lovely gesture, one that only a religious bigot would find offensive.

I don't know about other people, but this kid wouldn't have bothered me back when I was a teenager.  I would have just ignored him that day, like every other day before that.

"...one that only a religious bigot would find offensive." Thus sayeth Shrider Almighty.

Read the link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...

Jeez. Has any legitimate reporter deemed this worthy of coverage, or is Shrider the only one to throw it against the wall and see what sticks?

amadoracat..and thank GOD you did..

This is an update from April 23:

The suit stems from an incident in which the Gideons visited Loranger Middle School, and positioned themselves outside the principal's office to hand out Bibles. The principal then emailed teachers, letting them know that the Bibles were available for students who wished to come get one. He also stated that getting a Bible wasn't mandatory. When fifth-grade student "Jane Roe's" class was sent down, "Jane" was told by the teacher that students who didn't want a Bible could remain behind with a sixth-grade class. According to the court findings, "Jane alleges that she felt pressured to get a Bible because of potential teasing and name-calling by her peers if she refused." The student then went with the rest of her class, and received a Bible and a blessing from the Gideons. Her father brought the suit after learning his child had been given a Bible while in public school.

The court found that the incident did in fact violate the establishment clause, and that the child was subjected to "unconstitutional element of coercion as she, an impressionable young elementary-age child, experienced pressure to support or participate in religion or its exercise, or otherwise act in a way which establishes religion." In addition, the court found that the school board had failed to explain any sort of secular purpose for allowing the Gideons to be present in the school in the first place, and that letting them hand out Bibles "evidences a preference towards religion, specifically, Christianity."

Being that it is - on occasion - a part of the United States, Bakersfield and its school districts are subject to decisions handed down by federal judges.

They might be children, but why shouldn't we crucify them on Truxton? How dare they state their opinion that the Bible is a good book? Bakersfiledians, shouldn't you start eliminating anyone who thinks differently from your view? Why should you be kind to an enemy? Shouldn't you exercise your freedom of speech rights to take revenge? Shouldn't you? 

Marylee,

No, I haven't heard of any recent ruling in which students at a school function have full protection under the 1st Amendment.  Please, direct me towards such information, because I would love to read it.

I agree Cat~ and by that time I already owned 3 bibles.In high school I might have had occasion to debate the young person in question,but my religious path was already picked and a "gift" such as this would have been politely refused.  Now I have 5 bibles~ my favorite being my Nana's 'cause it is so beautiful,but fragile, so I rarely read it.

I hope this acceptance would be extended to atheists,pagans and all concerned with such matters.

Sounds like the church/state arguments have come to an extreme. At what point do we keep "religion" out of the schools at the price of intellectual freedom? If kids are going to learn about sex, they are going to look a pictures of pee-pee's; moral guardians will just have to be offended. If kids are going learn about Darwin vs. creationism, they will have to be exposed to religious belief; athiests will just have to be offended.

After four years of learning these views, I'd think graduation is an appropriate time for a student to be equipped to say, "yes, I want a bible," or "thanks, but no thanks."  The God We Trust posters was an example of a non-profit interjecting their religious philosophy directly into the classroom. I took exception. That argument does not apply in this situation. If anything, I think it compliments the grads level of maturity to make choices, whether the free book is the bible or a copy of Mein Kampf.

We atheists aren't offended by these repeated wastes of time. Annoyed, yes, that we continue to spend so much time working with and around people who believe in myths, but not offended. If the kid followed procedures and wants to hand out mythological texts, I say sure...nobody's got to take one.

I do find it ironic that the Pledge of Allegiance was altered in this clause..."one nation indivisable"...by one of the most divisive inclusions possible.

Marylee,

I actually agree with most of what you said, but as other bloggers pointed out what would your opinion have been if someone was distributing another religious text or a book on atheism? Stockdale is a great school, but from what I hear it can be similar to any other high school in town as regimented.

As I already noted in my column and on this blog,  ALL students, including ALL those who claim various faiths or none at all, should be included and or covered by state and district regulations regarding the right to distribute publications.That would include athiests, agnostics, Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, AND Bible-toting Christians.

I trust this point has now been clarified to everyone's satisfaction.

Marylee.. I'm still waiting for you to point me in the direction of current law as it pertains to first amendment rights for students on school property..

Brant sounds like a great young man who follows the rules.  Anyone who is offended by he and his club handing out Bibles to those who want them should talk to the other students before venting their outrage.  Even though I am an agnostic I would like to meet this fine young man.

I'm surprised the Principal let this happen. He is a good guy with a decent head on his shoulders. He had to have known that handing out Bibles in this manner was OK according to policy.

4094.

MrLo, the Bible per se is just a book - Paul's letter to Philemon is a hilarious example of first century arm-twisting - but it's the people who somehow believe they're superior to others because of said book that have so many people against its distribution in the schools.

"I'm gonna make you an offer you can't refuse" -The Apostle Paul

LOL, JBS.  Paul WROTE big, just like some bloggers on here, but that was easy for him to do in the safety of his parent's basement.  I'm gonna get a lightning bolt between the eyes for that.  : )

I don't have much of a problem here except for Marylee's framing this as a violation of civil rights.  If it is, in fact, a civil right to pass  out literature on school grounds, you wouldn't need the principal's permission to exercise it.

Marylee, can you hook me up with a Bible? I'm not sure what happened with mine, but I want one, so I can read the violent parts of it. Eve was one bad woman.  Why would a woman want knowledge, anyways?

Dear Florida State Grad:

Coming from Florida, you probably aren't aware of California Education Code Section 48907  pertaining to freedom of speech for California high school students, when you wrote:  "In a school setting, high school students do not have the freedoms that the first amendment provides - if they did, student newspapers would be allowed to print whatever content they deemed appopriate (sic)."

Verbatim, here's some of the the wording: "Student editors of official school publications shall be responsible for assigning and editing the news, editorial and feature content of their publications subject to the limitations of this section."

Further, prior restraint by school officials is prohibited. Students, however, may not publish  "obscene, libelous or slanderous" material and material that "incites students as to create a clear and present danger of the commission of unlawful acts on school premises or the violation of lawful school regulations, or the substantial disruption of the orderly operation of the school."

So, in fact, students have the exact same rights and responsibilities as the professional press. They get to write about anything that the young editors believe would be of interest to the student newspaper's readership. And that's a beautiful thing, for students to participate in exercising this utterly American right of freedom of speech afforded to us all by The First Amendment. What a great state!

This important part of the Ed Code also allows students to distribute printed materials on campus, including Bibles. Or the Koran.

This Ed Code section was added in 1977; nothing too recent about that.

FSU Grad -- Here are links to a couple of news stories about a local incident from the not-too-distant past that Ms. Shrider may be thinking of when she refers to a "recent ruling."

http://www.splc.org/newsfla...

http://www.highschooljourna...

Do you all believe in unicorns? Or Leprechauns maybe? Menehonnies from Hawaii? How about the Tooth Fairy, Santa, the Easter Bunny, Mother Nature, The man on the moon, lets see who else was in the Santa Clause,oh yeah Jack Frost, Do they or do they not exist? If someone wrote an article about them and how they really existed would anyone blog on that article? And Blog so heatedly? Probably not. If you all don't believe in God, good for you, but I don't ever hear anyone bashing the other mythical creatures in my post, so if God is just another one of these myths why does the discussion get so heated? If God doesn't exist then it doesn't really matter. There are millions of books about Santa, the Easter Bunny, The Tooth Fairy, Mother Nature, Leprechauns, Unicorns, and no one stops or questions their distribution at school, but there is only one Bible. Maybe there is such a strong reaction because in some small part of your heart you have the little nagging thought that maybe it is true or you are guided by satan and his followers and will attack anyone who puts forth the truth because you know that old saying, misery loves company and satan and his gang are probably the most miserable souls around. And you are right, there are a lot of  people out there who profess to be Christians and their behavior is not the best. We are all fallen humans and commit sin, Jesus never ate with the religious leaders, he ate with the sinners, the worst of the worst of the time. Sick people turn to a doctor for healing, sinful people turn to Jesus for healing.  May God bless each and every one of you. I will remember you all in my prayers tonight.

You will? Gee, what a gal.

I will say a special prayer for you JB.  ;O)

kafka  -- You said," Possummomma, I am afraid that the only accurate part of your post is your claim that a free bible is unlikely to turn someone to Christianity."  Guess again! In 1991 when I was in prison God arranged it so that my library book supply stopped, and then the Salvation Army Brought me a Bible. I was alone in my cell, my cellie had been classified and moved to a dorm. I was a hard core agnostic but I started reading the Bible for the first time in my life, and about one week later I gave my life and my heart to God.  

  Thats why Satan will always try to stop the distribution of Bibles!

Kafka  -- P.S. You said, " Prominent local Christians like Chad Vegas and Marilee Shrider are shrill and judgmental and smug in their holiness.  They deserve to become targets for snarky people who like to post on public forums."

....  and....   "And in case you are wondering about me, I am not a part of FCA and have not been to church in at least 18 months."

  Are you going to get back into Church?

  was a lovely gesture, one that only a religious bigot would find offensive.

Very mature.  How much easier is it to automatically stereotype someone than to try to understand where they're coming from.  I just want to make sure I've understood you correctly because there are CHRISTIAN kids at Stockdale who didn't think this was appropriate.  Not to mention the feelings held by seniors of other faiths. 

Does Paradise Lost  have to do with hell? I wrote a brief description what I think I heard it was about.

dcs217, 

Thats why Satan will always try to stop the distribution of Bibles!

Have you read Paradise Lost? I was listening to a Gore Vidal tape, and I think he was talking about Paradise Lost when he explained the devil's perspective aka..Lucifer, satan. Vidal said that Lucifer wanted to show god that people are infallable, and god wouldn't believe him.  Lucifer proved his point  when Eve ate the apple. God then got mad that Lucifer was right and sent him to hell.  Why should knowledge by forbidden?

I have an analogy, the basis for which you can find elsewhere at this site, that might help explain why Bibles often create problems where other distributions might not.

Not long ago, a lender wrote a post about pitfalls in borrowing, and people jumped on him with complaints of "SPAM!"

After reading the lender's response and thinking about it, I had to admit to myself, "no, it's not really fair that his post is considered spam when other self-promoting posts are not."

The problem is that loan posts and lender advertisements in general have come to be associated with pushy advertising and questionable business practices.  Both are turn-offs, and neither do any favors to the honest lenders out there who are just trying to run a business.

The problem here is not Bibles, but the way that Bibles have come to be associated with pushy self-promotion, judgmentalism and self-righteousness.  This does no favors for people who sincerely want to give out Bibles or Christian literature out of the very best intentions.

Whether you're a lender or a Christian missionary, it's in your own hands to rescue them from the disrepute created by pushy, arrogant, or unethical people and restore them to the respect that you feel they deserve.

Nice, ApolloDawn.  Interesting way of thinking about it.

Thank you, swen and theColorNine - it is truely amazing at how much different this State really is from the other 49. 

I think the title of ths story says it all.  The school officials admitted there mistake.

"Chagrined district officials said Friday the call to halt the Bible giveaway was a bad one, a “misinterpretation of our own regulation.”

“We have a process whereby students can obtain permission to do this,” said district spokesman John Teves. “These students followed every bit of that process; they did everything the right way for the right reason.”

Bottom line: Mary Lee needed a new controversy to fill her space.

I think it would do all of you good to remember that this is not an issue of christianity or religion. This is an issue of constitutional rights, and i find it funny how liberals are all for rights on all kinds of crazy things but when a real constitutional right is trampled upon they are no where to be seen. Where is the aclu?