Dummies is right,  What a mess this is becoming.  As many questions as answers. I just hope lawmakers don't rush it through like they did the stimulas bill, and try to get it right ( geez there is that right left thing again)

I'm starting to think this is about something other than providing health care for everyone. It's starting to occur to me that it's more about governmental control.

There are many things that could be promoted and done to provide health care to the masses without total governmental control. Do you realize that health insurance is sold and limited to each individual state? That means 50 little health insurance markets. This is government mandated. Why don't they allow a little competition to go on between states. Why can't a person in California but their health care insurance in Oklahoma if it's cheaper there? I think this would go a long way to bring down the costs.

Why don't they promote health insurance co-ops so small businesses can join and realize the cost benefit of sheer numbers. These days, we don't need labor unions. We need health care co-ops for bargaining power.

I also want to know what they're going to do about availability. I know several retired military who have medical cards. Their medical benefit are covered for life. The problem is that they have to drive over an hour just to see a Doctor. It doesn't matter if they have the flu or a broken arm. They have to drive an hour to find medical care that accepts their medical card. Is this what we're all in for?

There are more questions than answers now~ but as the final idea is not even set out now....it is important we do not muddy the water so to speak.

This whole business of scaring senior citizens should stop~ yesterday.

As much as I believe our health care system needs change~ a slow approach sounds best to me. We need our best minds to work on this~ without any political one upmanship for once. For the good of the nation and for the good of the people.

They do not call me "Rebbecca of Sunnybrook Farm" for nothing! :-)

Tonh:  I has always been about government control. The cars, banks, executive pay, health care, home loans, etc. People can foo-foo it all they want but unless/until the people of this great USA wake up (like the arrested seniors) and actually DO something, like 'fire' all those who support and vote for this "change", we are all in deep buffalo chips

Thanks for the great example witters~ No seniors were arrested. That is exactly what I mean by muddy the waters.

Los Angeles police Sergeant Rich Brunson said Thursday that police lured the group of seven outside somehow, then locked the building's doors behind them.

Brunson had said earlier that eight people were being taken into custody, but corrected himself after getting new details from officers on the scene.

I just wish someone would get on Rush's case for trying to pass off "cover hospice and end-of-life counseling if requested by the patient" as "mandatory counseling for the elderly on how to kill themselves". My blood got pretty darned near to boiling upon hearing that latest "talking point" from the talking heads. Muddied waters don't even begin to cover that sort of thing.

Agreed Shwaine.  As a country we need to drop all the foolishness. Repeating outright untruths,such as witters "arrested seniors" and the outright blatant lies of Rush are undermining this country.

I was shooting for polite.

Read Robert Price's editorial in todays paper. It is excellent.

I'm starting to think this is about something other than providing health care for everyone. It's starting to occur to me that it's more about governmental control.

I am curious, tonyh, why you would think this was about government control. What has the private health insurance industry, the pharmaceutical industry and the vast clinic and hospital associations done to rein in costs this past decade? Exactly who, or what entity, do citizens rely on to address giant out of control problems? 

The proposal for a public health care option in no way indicates to any rational person that a government takeover with loss of personal freedom is on the docket. Of  course, stakeholders who enjoy the immense profits do not want to see real competition in the market place. These companies prefer to stake out territories among themselves to shake down consumers and force financial ruin on the populous. They are strictly a for profit bunch that so happens to be engaged in the health industry. 

My eldest son recently had a very small spot near his eye diagnosed as skin cancer. The spot was removed with no problem and the HMO where he was then insured gave him the clearance he was cancer free. As his last policy was up and he applied for a new year with the HMO he was informed he was no longer insurable with that health provider. It is a distinct probabiltiy that he will be uninsurable for a long time unless he lands a job with a large company or organization, which will allow him to enter into a very large social insurance pool.

I was at a small gathering last night, and one woman spoke of her brother working at a local tire company until he was injured on the job, and not through negligence. A small piece glass had from a coworker's station at the job managed to find this young man's eye and required surgery to remove. The cost of the surgery forced the owner of the tire company into a dilemma. His health insurance costs would go through the roof next year if this young man stayed on the job thanks to this one injury. He fired the young worker. This young guy is now without insurance.

You don't something is wrong here in America over health care? You think it is right to force people into financial ruin over an accident not of their making and from which they may never be able to dig out from under?

No other country that is civilized in this world does this to its citizens. And you're worried that this is about government control?

Please! 

Adam~ those are the very real costs I want to see compared with the cost of "paying" for the proposed changes.

Clearly we are going to pay somewhere along the line~ lost productivity,jobs...lives... We will end up paying no matter what,it is the price of having a society.

Sage:  TBC's Bob Price is a genius. But don't tell him I said that.

I think fear of change is what motivates many of the anti-health-care-reform foes. Yet, as another blogger has repeatedly pointed out, we already have the Medicare system that could be refined and expanded to include the rest of the population. It doesn't have to be a "new from the ground up" type of change.

And it puzzles me that so many people think their health care isn't already "controlled." They're kidding themselves. Insurance companies and drug companies control it. They don't exactly have our best interests in mind.

He is really smart and nice too~ he interviewed me once.

I hear you about the "control" non-issue.

Tony, they aren't making YOU take their coverage. You like your coverage, you keep it. You like your doctor, you keep him/her.

If you find out that the government is as capable in covering you at a cheaper price, you have the option to use it. If you don't like it, you get to keep your private insurance.

It's still about options, only now people with 20,000 dollar incomes have an option.

The health care system is broke. We get very little bang for the buck here compared to other nations. Personally I'll keep my insurance, but now the guy flipping burgers can pay into his own government insurance, which no matter how bad it is, is still better than no insurance.

I'm going to assume that nobody on the blogs is against everyone having access to some form of health care. Since, if you already have insurance it has zero affect on you, then you guys must believe that either the administration is being totally deceptive, and that it is a slippery slope to mandatorily addressing each other as comrades. LOL

I want to know why asking questions and throwing out probablilities is "scaring" people.  We've aleready seen what HMO care is like.  We've seem what Medi-cal care is like.  We've seen what so many of the doctors who will take either are like.  You're talking about putting every citizen in that kind of plan...and yeah..it IS better than nothing but will you see the Obamas there?

As for the guy who makes 20K affroding insurance.  Are you KIDDING me?  Where is he going to get ANY money together for insurance?  It will be provided at no cost?  Great..it already is.  It's not hard to get state or local medical help.

From what I understand (I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong) is that if you DON'T take the gov't insurance you'll be paying a penalty.  So that's one of the options?

And who is going to pay for all this insurance for everyone?  We are,, just like we do now.

Of course everyone should have medical coverage but it won't change the way it is now...the haves will have and the have nots will pay for it.

Asking questions isn't scaring people unless the questions are like:

"would you be ok with the government deciding how and when you want to die (end of life counseling)"

"Would you be ok with waiting years for a necessary surgery or test (the old canadian health care myth)?"

"Do you want the government making all of your medical decisions (creepy soviet style government)?"

You get the idea. The point is that some people are willing to discuss what would work in an ideal situation, and others don't want to offer solutions but rather make up possible scenarios that make people not want to change anything. I suppose we could use the GOP plan. Lower taxes and give incentive money to insurance companies. Yeah, that'll fix things.

If you read the link Nancy~ some in the GOP are saying that end of life counseling will be mandatory  which it is not under the current form of the bill. That scares people and we all just want the truth~ I assume~ to guide us. Not fear based on a lie.

Nancy,

"As for the guy who makes 20K affroding insurance.  Are you KIDDING me?  Where is he going to get ANY money together for insurance?  It will be provided at no cost?  Great..it already is.  It's not hard to get state or local medical help."

What about the guy with a wife and kids that makes $25k or $30k, or even $35k that is still scraping by. Guess what, they don't qualify for medical or anything else for that matter. If you really think it's not hard to get state or local medical help, that tells me you haven't tried recently. For the  person in this situation, there are no alternatives. They just have to pray they don't get injured or sick.

sage:  I'm with Tony, and I'm with WP on this one.  And I think that her "arrested seniors" was wrongly interpreted.  I do believe the current administration wants, eventually, to control every thing, everything.  Won't we all look cute in our uniforms?

I also believe that there is intense scrutiny being given to options regarding end of life.  One thing for "the government" to do is urge people to write a Living Will and a Health Care Power of Attorney.  That way there is no question about whether to resuscitate someone who's 95 years old and virtually vegetative. 

One of my sisters is a pharmacist.  She was working in a hospital, and when there are these "Codes" (it may be "Code Blue") in the hospital, people from various departments need to be present.  She has been present when someone has insisted upon the resuscitation of poor old grandma, when grandma really hasn't been all there for a long time anyway in any manner.  Somebody needs to make these judgments; that's why the L.W. and HCPA, mentioned above, are truly important. 

I'd rather make the decisions myself rather than have any government bureaucrat do it for me. 

No surprise to me Alicen. I do not subscribe to the theory that all of you will go so gently into that goodnight~ uniforms or no. I do not plan on any such thing,nor do I event scenarios to frighten people. That would be Info wars posts I believe. :-)

Just to be clear~ under the current bill being considered that( end of life decisions) is still a persons choice.

I went through this with my mother~ she made a clear decision to stay alive no matter what, then got Alzheimer's. In the end my sister and I had to decide to withhold food and water or try to use extraordinary measures.

Even with her quality of life being so bad~ sitting with her for the two weeks till she finally died was tough.

Naturally the staff and Doctors gently advised us to let her die. It was the best choice...no matter what.

Sage:  it's always a tough decision, especially when it has to be made for somebody else.  My husband and I have made it easier for our daughter to deal with end-of-life decisions.  Personally I have no desire to live as a vegetable. 

However, I always liked radishes!

(Sorry -- that was my evil twin.)

LOL ~Alicen I understand dark comedy all right! Some times situations are so darn painful that laughter saves some sanity...been there myself.

Sage:  Did you see my comment about having all those birth certificates?  That's how I really CAN justify some of my (more) off-the-wall stuff.  Just blame it all on my evil twin!  I love it!