Sam Heath
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samheath - > Sam Heath -> Despite detractors, our debt to the Bible and Jesus remains
Despite detractors, our debt to the Bible and Jesus remains

On the basis of historical facts no one can legitimately dispute the Bible and the Christian religion giving rise to a Christian Western Civilization wherein the best of the arts and sciences began to flourish is the basis for the founding of America as a Christian nation beginning with those early Pilgrims for the glory of God and the advancement of the Christian faith. There is no disputing the finest charitable organizations in the world given to serving humankind have their basis in the Christian religion, and one need not be a Christian to acknowledge these facts and own their debt to the Bible and the Christian religion for these things.

However, to acknowledge the historical significance of the Bible and Jesus quite obviously should not divorce the mind from reason, nor ignore the facts of human nature being such as to emphasize Emerson’s remark that men like George Washington leave no class. Reading the New Testament narrative of Jesus and the early beginnings of the Church one can only shake their heads over how far those naming the name of Christ could have descended from a promising beginning into the Dark Ages.

But despite the twists and turns of the Christian religion, even the most heinous crimes being committed in the name of Jesus at one time or another, the burning of heretics and other cruelties of great notoriety in history men like Luther would arise to confront these things and the benefits of the Christian religion once becoming civilized far outweigh the negatives. Without the Christian religion and the Bible one might well imagine the enormous loss to the world, and there might well have never been an England or America upholding and advancing the finest benefits of Christianity in literature and education, the arts and sciences, in charitable works, benefits none profiting from would exchange for those of Islam for example.

The many years I gave to the study of the Bible were years well spent, such a study leading to other areas like history, geography, languages, cultures and mythologies of ancient civilizations and so much more. It was in such a manner I acquired a personal library of some 5,000 volumes dedicated to such studies and it was for this reason Theology became known as the Queen of the Sciences while Philosophy remained the King of Disciplines. The two were joined since those like Copernicus and Newton were a product of both, as have the best of thinkers throughout the history of Western Civilization realizing one cannot separate science entirely from the spiritual which alone accounts for life. Science gives us understanding about much of our physical world, but offers nothing as an explanation for life or its origin, cannot tell us what animates at birth and departs at death.

Here in America we enjoy the greatest freedom to express ideas that often conflict with the majority opinion; and this freedom of such dissent we owe to the Founding Fathers who built into our government the right to dissent. But it is regrettable that political correctness shouts down what is often the majority opinion of We the People the great majority expressing a belief in Christianity in some form, but the MSM often crediting the opinion of minorities having far greater weight than they do in fact. It seems politicians are far more given to such minority opinions than the will of We the People. And in just such manner do the Bible and Christianity suffer attack from the minuscule minority that would denigrate all those who credit our debt as a nation to the Bible and Christianity for our being the freest and most powerful nation in the world.

But to repeat, one need not be a Christian as defined by any one belief system to acknowledge this fact of America’s history; though for the sake of intellectual honesty one must separate what one believes from what one knows as empirical fact. And it is here in the matter of beliefs as opposed to facts we find so many schisms often setting otherwise good people against one another. And here as elsewhere the cautionary word should be exercising discretion when pronouncing beliefs, and there is no room for bullies in a sharing of differing beliefs and I refuse to be cowed by bullies of any kind or provide them a forum to attack me. They are free to write and speak as they will elsewhere.

While I may not share the belief of some that lighting candles for the departed is of any benefit I welcome the thoughtfulness of those who do believe such a thing, but the best of such people are not going to attempt to force their belief in the efficacy of such a thing on me. When someone tells me they will pray for me, I don’t try to disabuse them of the notion but express my gratitude for their thoughtfulness.

One would think the goodness of people ought to eventually overcome the evil that men do. But such is not the case. And because this is not the case, but the facts are a history of humankind being one of evil ever in the ascendancy I give myself over to often thinking and writing about the cause of this, and the Bible is a primary source on the subject notwithstanding The Great Books and The Great Conversation.

And so I do resort to metaphysical speculation about the reason there are monsters in our midst in the guise of human beings, monsters without conscience preying on women and children, monsters without conscience perpetrating the most fiendish of acts against the most defenseless of victims like children. And while only a belief, I believe war of some kind in the heavens is visited upon the earth, that the world being Satan’s domain offers a plausible explanation for hell on earth with a history of conflict and no end in sight. And what can possibly account for human beings believing the murder of the innocent that simply do not believe the way you do is glorifying to any other deity but Satan?

But to even give a voice to such expressions of belief or disbelief is one of the benefits of living in America, an America founded on the Bible and the Christian religion that despite my heterodox beliefs and the fact I don’t belong to or attend any church I give thanks and I am duly appreciative. And even for those that disagree they can be thankful they were not born in Iran, but are the beneficiaries of the Bible and Christianity.

Yes, regardless the belief system hypocrisy abounds. But to attempt to discredit the good of the Bible and the Christian religion with all the benefits accruing is to ignore the facts and refuse to give credit where credit is due.

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posted by samheath on Sunday, December 31, 2006 at 10:19 AM
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posted by anonymous on Jan 5, 2007 at 12:29 PM

Random, I beg a thousand pardons if I'm in error. I must have misread the intent of the "Sam/Anny"  post you made in reference to how I determined that Ghengis Khan was a Christian on Mattloch's blog. Thanks for the correction.

anti, thanks for the info on "God''s Chinese Son".  I'll have to check that one out.

 

posted by randomfactor on Jan 5, 2007 at 11:55 AM
No, actually, Random doesn't. 
posted by antiextremism on Jan 5, 2007 at 11:51 AM

The Muslims do owe a debt of gratitude to the Greeks for their speculative ideas. Who doesn't?  But the Muslims turned speculation into experimentative methods that had a huge impact on everything from navigation, to mathematics, to astronomy. There is little disagreement on that, and considering the lack of resources they had as compared to the western world, quite remarkable.

 

Anon, you might also be interested in a book called "God's Chinese Son". It is the story of Hong Houxiu, who led a revolt in China in the mid 1800s. After he could not pass the Confusionism exams, something that would have given him some measure of power, he turned to Christianity that was brought to the Chinese by Baptist and Anglican missionaries. He claimed to be Jesus's brother, and with the help of a couple of hundred thousand 'converts' , wreaked havoc on the Chinese leading to millions of deaths. Ironically, the West had to send troops in to stop the destruction. Some of the same tactics used by this faux Christian were used a 100 years later in the communist revolution.

posted by samheath on Jan 3, 2007 at 05:23 AM
Thanks anon, and among scholars there is little disagreement over the debt Muslims owe Christians. Those that would argue this show their own ignorance and prejudice against Christians.
posted by anonymous on Jan 2, 2007 at 10:30 PM

Sam, you may find this as interesting as did I. It is an article by a Cambridge graduate student, Mark Dickens, on Nestorian Christianity in Central Asia.

http://www.oxuscom.com/Nest...

I have used it as a reference to show Christianity as Ghengis Khan's religion on Mattloch's doppelganger thread to this thread and also as evidence that the Muslims received their knowledge about Greek medicine and philosophy from these Christians. It's worth reading. By the way, Random thinks that I am you. 

posted by johnburnssucks on Jan 1, 2007 at 09:57 AM
The Pilgrims came to America for "religious freedom;" just so long as that religion was Puritanism. Those who didn't follow in lock-step were banished, with many of those banishees forming what came to be known as Rhode Island. The narrow-mindedness of the Pilgrims is one good example of why our government is not based on Christianity of any other religion.
posted by samheath on Jan 1, 2007 at 05:52 AM

For those who know little or nothing of the history of the Bible but what they have seen on TV, know nothing of what it took for this book which has had a greater impact on the world than any other and was to eventually become the crown jewel of literature and the influences that made it so, such ignorance displays itself in comments that have nothing to do with my apologetic. The Pilgrims remain the key element of our history because of the Bible. That many superstitions arose around the Bible is not the point for those like me who have devoted many years to the study of the book and its history and influence.

posted by GotREALITY on Dec 31, 2006 at 07:44 PM
Jamestown ~almost~ died. You must be thinking of Roanoke. It was saved by John Smith and began to thrive with John Rolfe.
posted by Katatak on Dec 31, 2006 at 06:36 PM

     During the reign of an ancient Chinese king named Yao, it is recorded how the "sun stood so long above the horizon that it was feared the world would have been set on fire."

     In like manner to the ancient flood stories, mythologies relating to the sun standing still are found in ancient Babylonian, Indian, and Aztec records. Even the historian Herodotus recounts how temple records in Egypt recorded a strange day almost twice the normal length.

     Although our ancient memory may be shrouded, to uncritically dismiss ancient myths possessing a widely divergent basis  appears to be similar to the fear shown by the professors of philosophy and Cardinal Bellarmine; prejudiced refusal to look through a telescope and critically assess the evidence for oneself. 

     Keep in mind that Galilleo was a devout Catholic and loved the church. He held no intent to harm the church.

posted by tonyh on Dec 31, 2006 at 05:46 PM
Jamestown died too..... There were no survivors to be found.
posted by GotREALITY on Dec 31, 2006 at 05:35 PM
The pilgrims did indeed establish a xtn colony but they were not the first American colony. The first colony, Jamestown, was established well before and its sole purpose was for profit NOT religion.
posted by johnburnssucks on Dec 31, 2006 at 04:57 PM

Whoever wrote the book of Joshua needed a second opinion. The only way the sun could stop is if the Earth stopped spinning on its axis, in which case there would be no more Earth and no more people. Therefore, what is claimed in Joshua 10 is impossible.

The Bible is interesting reading. Mythology usually is.

posted by AudreyB on Dec 31, 2006 at 03:49 PM

You lost me with your first sentence.

If Galileo were alive today, we could ask him how science flourished under Christian run states.

It was the church that ordered Galileo to stop writing that the Earth rotates around the sun.  Doesn't the bible teach us that the sun "stood still" in the sky.

Actually, science flourished  IN SPITE of the Christian religion.

posted by anonymous on Dec 31, 2006 at 01:17 PM
random, the Constitution guarantees you the right to say what you want with some limits, it just doesn't  give you the right to be heard.
posted by samheath on Dec 31, 2006 at 12:55 PM
To state the obvious random, there is nothing preventing you starting one of your own.
posted by randomfactor on Dec 31, 2006 at 12:19 PM
Interesting thread.  I look forward to the back-and-forth on this issue as soon as someone establishes a deletion-free discussion area.  Hardliner?
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