AB634 was so watered down by the time the Senate had a chance to vote on it that it wouldn't have resulted in any pets getting sterilized, anyway.

Backyard breeders, rejoice --- you are now free to continue adding to the enormous pet overpopulation problem we are currently facing.

Backyard breeders can be dealt with in other ways than mandatory spay/neuter. This fixation on the false dichotomy is why the issue will continue to stall legislatively.

I'm not so sure Bako..all the hoopla has opened alot of peoples eyes to the over population problem...now if they get some worthwhile low cost spay and neuter going It will help the problem immensely..

"...irresponsible mandatory sterilization laws which will result in more dogs and cats being sent to animal shelters and euthanized."

Care to explain the logic behind that?  How do sterilization laws, even "irresponsible" ones, add MORE pets to the problem? Please be specific--for instance, cite the euthanization rate change of any US city which put spay/neuter laws on its books.

Shwaine, as soon as I see someone actually making a decision and doing something positive I'll be the first to champion it. By and large what I see is an apathetic public and a Board of Supervisors who will do almost anything to avoid doing anything to address the issue. My personal opinion is that MSN is something that's borne out of utter frustration. It's not that people (including myself) aren't open to other solutions, but that other solutions never seem to materialize into action.

ha wont do the research for you RUSSKY,,go to google.com and feel free to post..I think the problem is that people will start dumping their animals in the shelters because they wont want the added HIGH expense of S/N nor an annual registery filling their mailboxes..plus if you want to rebreed an excellent dog for your family to keep rovers lines intact..your neighbor shouldnt have the right to make that descion for you.

you wont stop the breeders who don't care or follow rules anyway so its a mute point..the problem is too huge..they cant control it as a mandatory so why waste their resources..an Awareness program and low cost S/N stands a better chance of helping with the problem by appealing to peoples conscious rather than cram another unenforceable law down their throats.

You're speculating and assuming rather than actually proving what you claim in your original post.  If *you* can't defend yourself and can't at least do a little research to back up your generalized claims, then your argument isn't worth a whole lot.

sorry not here at your beck and call Russky...its your question you answer it..

EX: if I go into a blog with a thought as does everyone else here...simply to carry on an INTELLIGENT DISCUSSION..they will come with a link to either prove or disprove the subject being discussed..Its totally improper to join in demanding the blog poster go get them info..are you nuts?? incase you didnt notice thats a petpac announcement..go here and ask them to explain it to you.

petpac.net

Bako..what about the 10 grand that was recently raised?? baby steps kiddo baby steps

I'm asking (not demanding) that YOU defend what YOU wrote.  If you can't, then I'm free to think what I want about your claim.  The basic rules of debate and argument require one to explain and prove one's own position.  You don't get any benefit of the doubt when you're trying to persuade somebody that you're right--YOU have to do that work.  Pretty simple.

For the record, over $13,000 was raised, and I commend the Californian for putting together a promotion to help. Now if we can just get 10-20 other large businesses in the area to pony up, we might have something going.

Also, for the record, MSN was not going to stop your ability to "rebreed an excellent dog for your family to keep rovers lines intact". It was going to ask you to obtain a permit to do so, in the event that the other five puppies that were born in the interest of having that one to keep the line intact found themselves at the shelter at some point in the life. It was never going to stop you from breeding.

If there is one misconception that is out there about MSN that I'd like to see changed, that's the one. 

so whos to say that other family members and friends that are familiar with this dog wont want one too?? You need to think on the positive here Bako..there are two sides to every story..stop being negative..I refuse to live that way...

How is stating the truth negative? Perhaps you're one of the lucky few who always has more homes avaiable than puppies to place in them, but given the rate of surrender in this area, that's certainly not the case everywhere.

The purpose of establishing a breeding permit was to provide funds to assist with those animals who find their way into the shelter. How is that negative? For every person born, 15 dogs and 45 cats are born (HSUS). Only 1 in 10 dogs stays in the home where it was originally placed. I'm not being negative --- I'm being practical.

There is another blog that had statistics from other counties that had implemented MSN which showed a spike in owner surrenders immediately following the law. I should have bookmarked it, but did not. It was posted back in early summer when the MSN debates with Pup raged on. I don't have the time to search for it for you, but it should be in the archives.

bako..im not attacking you at all...the negativity is that you speak like all the pups are doomed except for one lone pup they hold back from that litter and its just not so..granted there are way too many meeting an unjust fate but ya cant plug everyone into that catagory to make a point. your one in ten sounds a bit harsh..if a person pays a few hundred dollars for a dog they arent going to dump it in a shelter.. the dogs that are dying are generally mutts throw aways or bad attitudes...I feel for them and this is the target area...lets try and keep things in perspective..breeding permits might still be workable but not MSN

Is that your border collie Sioux?

Sioux, the 1 in 10 number is also from the Humane Society of the United States, not me. It does sound harsh, I agree. I'm not feeling attacked, nor do I feel I'm attacking, and I'm certainly not trying to restart a debate over MSN. I was simply voicing my opinion about why I think people become MSN champions --- out of frustration over the sheer numbers of unwanted pets, and seeing little action on the part of pet owners or of local government to do anything substantial to address the issue.

Anti..well thats my wifes dog..he has a blue eye on the black part of his face..very smart  bred to chase sheep..his dad is one of the best iive ever seen..comes from up north of here..

my dog is a frisbee flyer..I picked him before he was born because I knew his mom and dad..told em I wanted a split faced male and he was born just like i ordered him..hes very flashy....couldnt have asked for a bertter companion..hes been my pal for about 10 years now....hes gettin older and doesnt leap over my head to catch one anymore..but if the weathers nice and hes feelin good he can still be very impressive..

bako..fingers crossed its all going to move forward from here..but keep in mind we all need to remind the public occasionally so this issue doesnt fall between the  cracks..

I love Border Collies. Smart kids.

I had Siberians forever, but after losing my last two after they lived to be 17, which is long for a husky, I didn't want anymore animals.

Now my daughter brought me a lab mix to keep while she gets a new apartment. Had him about 6 months now. LOL

Borders are the smartest dogs there are IMHO.

I especially like the red ones.

I always had the skinny ones, they could work up a storm. I like the looks of Kelpies and Queenslands as cowdogs go, but there is nothing that can work cows or sheep (anything really) smarter than a border...........

Remember the one in the Movie where Nick Nolte was a bum? Beautiful border.

and are wayy easier to train than the other herding breeds..when we used to give lessons with our dog club out back the borders picked everything up hands down faster..agility herding whatever..once they got the course down you could just give voice commands and stand in the middle rather than running with the dogs and point ..plus voice..

always made me smile to watch that...