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talkofthetown - > Talk of the Town -> Day of the Dead: Are you outraged?
Day of the Dead: Are you outraged?
Some Californian readers wrote in complaining about an ad for Mexican celebration Dia de los Muertos (Day of the Dead) and the celebration itself, with one reader likening the festivities to "some voodoo ceremony that's practiced in some third-world country like Mexico."
Now, ignoring for a moment the latent racism behind such a comment, do you regard Dia de los Muertos as a hallowed tradition or a controversial "voodoo ceremony." And is an altar to the dead that much different from little kids dressed up as evil monsters getting candy on Halloween?
And while we're at it, is The Californian chronicling or causing the controversy?

— Andrew Mockett
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posted by talkofthetown on Friday, October 26, 2007 at 08:45 AM
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54 comments from 31 users

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posted by randomfactor on Oct 26, 2007 at 08:49 AM

Can I be outraged at the outrage?  The level of ignorance betrayed is staggering...

posted by thetruthhurts on Oct 26, 2007 at 09:00 AM

I have to agree with Random.  We hear to often hateful ignorant (ignorant...living in 2007 ignorant shouldn't be used..I will use plain old stupidity and racism) remarks.  Can someone who feels the need to make remarks like these please help me to understand how one could have views like this?  This sickens me.

 

I don't know anything about Dia de los Muertos but it sounds like a day to cherish and remember the dead you love.  Does anyone know if this is close?

posted by ProgressivePete2 on Oct 26, 2007 at 09:01 AM
How bizarre that someone would be offended by honoring the dead. Maybe they see the skeleton figures and get freaked out. I imagine it's pretty hard for people like that to be around others. I wonder how many of them have ever been outside of Bakersfield?
posted by randomfactor on Oct 26, 2007 at 09:01 AM

Dead on, forgive the pun.

.

This country's attitudes about death could stand to benefit from a healthy look at Mexico's.

posted by witbee on Oct 26, 2007 at 09:11 AM
I don't understand being outraged. Let people honor what they want to.
posted by maryjonorris on Oct 26, 2007 at 09:12 AM
Dia do Muertos is just like Momerial Day but even more people come out to clean the graves of their loved ones.  They also teach the young ones not to forget their family who are not here by beautifing the graves with many colors and flowers.
posted by TomW on Oct 26, 2007 at 09:12 AM
Don't worry about this holiday.  In no time, we'll strip it of its original meaning and turn it into a another day for kids to pass out cards, the young to go out drinking and old to complain that the young don't respect the holiday they way they once did.
posted by nooneisabovethelaw on Oct 26, 2007 at 09:25 AM

No. The people occupying the cemetary don't care...why should we?

posted by antiextremism on Oct 26, 2007 at 09:29 AM

How dare them Honor the Dead. I mean after all, we should celebrate American things like Columbus Day, Saint Patrick's Day, Hannukah, and Kwanza. Not this foreign stuff. Skeletons should be viewed only during the Pagan Halloween where we honor the Candy industry. Next thing you know, they'll want to celebrate a third world country's Independence........twice in one year even!

This is an issue that should go right to the front of our local government's agenda, like what we hang on our walls, and whether we should issue a Fatwa against foreign languages, or making the statement that "Yes, we won't be a sanctuary city, not because it is already illegal, but because we just wanna make sure you know that". In fact, I think the local government should also make a proclamation saying we don't support murder, and won't tolerate rapists easily."

So, let all of us Amuricans honor their wishes, by actually helping them meet their ancestors on the Day of the Dead. We'll do that right after the NRA meeting. That would solve almost every City Council problem we have and they will have time to actualy fix roads, and make plans for freeways that don't end in the middle of the town.  It's dispicable. As an Irish American, honoring of the dead was our idea to actually celebrate their lives instead of bemoaning our selflshness, and to get wasted on stout beer while doing so. Haven't the English already stole enough from us????

posted by sagefever on Oct 26, 2007 at 10:03 AM
I hope as a public education service the Californian does a Local section front page story all about Dia De Los Muretas. Clearly some people need information on the subject. As a culture we could use a dose of the attitude our neighbors to the south have in regards to death.Ya ken the situation well anti~ down with the brits!( that is a bit of sarcasm least any think it a call to arms or a threat)
posted by CalamityJanie on Oct 26, 2007 at 10:50 AM
I am not Hispanic, but I've lived out west for a long time, and this holiday has become part of my family tradition. We have an ofrenda almost every year. It's a wonderful way to remember people who are no longer with us, and it's a joyful holiday, not a scary one. It's full of humor and love. As the younger people in my family grow up, they learn about this ancient holiday and  get a new perspective on their own heritage. It's a multicultural world now, and we have lots of opportunities to learn. Why aren't all of us doing that?
posted by randomfactor on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:02 AM
Because *SOME* among us freak out at the faintest hint of another culture, particularly one offered by scary brown people?  Just a thought.
posted by alramirez37 on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:12 AM

It is unfortunate that we have ignorant people like Nora Virrey in our community. She does not understand what Dia de los Muertos is about therefore she decides to call it a “voodoo ceremony”. Dia de los Muertos is nothing more than a day to honor those that have passed. Maybe Nora Virrey should do some research before she opens her mouth next time.

posted by srgonzalez215 on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:25 AM

This is what Wikepedia says about Halloween: "Many European cultural traditions, in particular Celtic cultures, hold that Halloween is one of the liminal times of the year when spirits can make contact with the physical world, and when magic is most potent (according to, for example, Catalan mythology about witches and Irish tales of the Sídhe)."  I wonder if Ms. Virrey feels Halloween should not be celebrated since it has "voodoo-like roots", and Ms. Virrey, maybe you should visit Mexico so you can see that it is far from being a Third World Country!

alramirez, you took the words right out of my mouth!

posted by ernestomdo on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:26 AM

"How dare them Honor the Dead. I mean after all, we should celebrate American things like Columbus Day, Saint Patrick's Day, Hannukah, and Kwanza."

You forgot Valentine's Day, Independence Day, President's Day, Thanksgiving, etc., etc.

How dare US scary brown people (BOO) have culture, heritage and love for our ancestors and the beliefs that they had. So when is that NRA meeting?

posted by RoyTullis on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:40 AM
Much ado about nothing.  A cross between Halloween and  Memorial day when they remember their passed loved one and teach their children respect.  Gad! some people who gripe about things like this have too much time on their hands.
posted by casedow on Oct 26, 2007 at 12:10 PM
I understand that recently there has been very little information on Dia de los Muertos in the Californian and I would have thought your article to be a cultural informational piece shedding light on a very integral part of the Hispanic community. I would have also hoped that it would have been a respectful, insightful, and knowledgeable article enabling our city to better understand the culture that makes up a large portion of our community. Instead I was sorely disappointed. You chose to instead focus on the unfounded and frankly ignorant views of people of our community who probably couldn't even tell you what day the holiday is on. The very title signifies the focus of the article which has no purpose but only to validate the uneducated and fearful views of people who have not seemed to comprehend the true meaning of this holiday. However, despite being somewhat backhanded, I do appreciate the media attention on the event taking place at Greenlawn. I would hope in the future your articles will represent the true diversity of Bakersfield instead of spreading a backwards, embarrassing view of our community.

posted by msjenny on Oct 26, 2007 at 12:10 PM
radom always i agree with you, maybe nora does love her family that have passed on to heaven or the other place
posted by mattloch on Oct 26, 2007 at 12:48 PM
TomW: "Don't worry about this holiday.  In no time, we'll strip it of its original meaning and turn it into a another day for kids to pass out cards, the young to go out drinking and old to complain that the young don't respect the holiday they way they once did."

And don't forget conservatives complaining that atheists are secularizing it..... (by "declaring war" on it)
posted by AudreyB on Oct 26, 2007 at 01:36 PM

It's only a big deal if you make it a big deal.  This is another one of those subjects that comes under the heading of : 

"Fun things to be outraged over".

posted by ghostriter on Oct 26, 2007 at 01:49 PM
Some people have nothing better to do than be outraged about things that are not really their concern. As for honoring the dead,  the saying goes that only the good die young. It seems the best of us are all gone, leaving many of us to miss them for our own time remaining. Honoring them is a wonderful way to remember better days when they enriched our lives. What is wrong with that?
posted by johnburnssucks on Oct 26, 2007 at 02:00 PM

...one reader likening the festivities to "some voodoo ceremony..."

So? I used to practice voodoo all the time. Never had much success, though.

How dare US scary brown people (BOO) have culture, heritage and love for our ancestors and the beliefs that they had. So when is that NRA meeting?

Ernesto, antiextremism was being sarcastic.


posted by AudreyB on Oct 26, 2007 at 02:03 PM

My guess is, she never had a high school or college class in sociology.   If she had, she would realize that being different doesn't mean being inferior OR wrong.

posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 03:02 PM
Madre del Maria, santa de dios. ¡ ora por nosotros pecadores, ahora y a la hora de nuestra muerte !
posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 03:09 PM

And don't forget conservatives complaining that atheists are secularizing it..... (by "declaring war" on it)  ~~Mattloch

A mí me gustaría hacerle este día del muerto a mi liberal a una ofrenda amigos socialistas Mattloch, Azar (RF en espanol), y TomW.

Favor de aceptarle en el espíritu que se da. Conservativo para siempre~~

~~ Chico

posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 03:12 PM

Permite nosotros ahora y de aquí en adelante declara guerra en esos quienes declaran guerra en secularisivo, conservatismo, religión, liberalismo, socialismo.

Para "Todo el Mundo"!

ORALE' VATOS!

posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 03:23 PM

Gonzales y Ramirez:

We usually even enshrine the most recently passed of our "tribe" along with our ofrende. So you are quite correct as is the Anglo Calamitous Janious.

However the upstart ernestomdo should learn the 2nd amendment (and by assoc the NRA) is dear to the values assoc w/ dia de muerte para los "sangrias" as well as any anglos or others "no parte de la raza"...........

 

posted by antiextremism on Oct 26, 2007 at 04:03 PM

Me, sarcastic John??????

Unheard of.  When have I ever used sarcasm to make a point?????

You're just stereotyping me now because I'm white.

Uh oh, I'm doing it again aren't I?

Neeeeever Miiiiiind. 

posted by adampayne on Oct 26, 2007 at 04:06 PM
Casey Doward, made some great points on his post. What is the intent when you print the most hysterical and stupid comments from the community about this day of remembrance and celebration? The Californian could have done an article on the history of the celebration and day at the time the advertisement ran. This could have been a win-win to show support for a growing segment of our community and inform those of us ignorant of the cultural importance of the day. When I looked at the photo above the fold, as I received my paper this morning, I thought there was concert or celebration of the Grateful Dead around Halloween.  I thought it might have been a young Jerry Garcia photo next to the skeleton. Oh well, just another uproar by folks offended by anything not in their living rooms, no exposition, and no Dead music. Bummer!
posted by ghostriter on Oct 26, 2007 at 04:17 PM
en ingles, por favor...I just demonstrated my very limited spanish...;)
posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 04:33 PM

long live Cherry Garcia!

Mucus Garcias!

posted by FIZZGET on Oct 26, 2007 at 05:16 PM

Ms. Virrey you must be one of the lucky ones that has never had a loved one pass away, or you just bury them and forget them.   Dia De Los Muertos is a day in our culture where when honor and remember them.  This is our way of showing others that they were loved and now missed very much.  We loved them so much that we created a holiday to honor them.  I suggest you go to your nearest library and read up on the subject, so next time you want to write something you might just sound intelligent.

posted by sfinboston52 on Oct 26, 2007 at 05:24 PM

poor woman is just ignorant. Hopefully she will try to expand her narrow view of life and cultures.

posted by medlock on Oct 26, 2007 at 05:28 PM
Well, said!  She obviously doesn't know much about it if she's going to give it a "voodoo" label.  She probably doesn't know squat about voodoo either!
posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 06:54 PM

Ora para "El Dia De Muerte" para los Liberalisimo's, Socialismo's, Secularisivo's, y Appeasiementos para los "tin pot" dictadores aqui (en esa BB) y todo el mundo .............

Entonces, arbusto (chamiso) no son patinando esse. Y los cabesa de nudillos puede electar Hillario Cleentonius

Then we shall see

What will the nudillos y hijos de chingaras complain about then?

Nothing? Of course, because we will then have achieved utopia esse!

 

posted by johnburnssucks on Oct 26, 2007 at 08:04 PM

long live Cherry Garcia!

Great Ice Cream.

I saw a bumper sticker several years ago that said "Thanks, Jerry for finally dying" Obviously not a Grateful Dead fan.

posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 08:13 PM

mucus garcias, juan morenos succiones

porque tue tienes cherry garcias en tus labios?

porque juan morenos succiones esse!   ;-)

posted by jermox on Oct 26, 2007 at 10:58 PM

This reminds me of something I noticed last Cinco de Mayo.  I was working last Cinco de Mayo and the store I worked at decided to play Spanish music throughout that day only.  The customers were livid.  Many were threatening to not shop in the store again.  All the while these customers were buying out every lime, Corona, and margarita mix they could find and/or heading to the nearest Mexican restaurant to listen to Mariachis while drinking their Coronas and margaritas. Some people nowadays are so touchy about immigration that they see any kind of Mexican heritage creeping into California as an assault on America.

I have to say I always found Dia de los Muertos to be one of the most amazing holidays.  I remember watching a film on it that showed a very poor Mexican family saving their money to buy their deceased family members the higher quality foods.  It has always been an ambition of mine to visit Mexico during this holiday since I always found the celebration so incredible.

posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:06 PM

When is Cinco de Mayo?

I just can never remember the date. (when it is)

(anyone who drinks Corona must be related to Ghandi somewhere way back there anyway)

 

posted by kangarue on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:11 PM
HAHAHA!!!! Voodoo ceremony... that's the funniest thing I've heard all day, and I just got done watching Jeff Dunham! (For those of you who know who he is...) The ignorance of people amazes me. "Oh my god! A Mexican tradition! What the hell is going on here? Quick, someone make a big deal about it! We're white traditions ONLY here... let's celebrate the slaughter of Native Americans instead! YAY!" Psh. Kudos to those who celebrate it. Half of my heritage is of Mexican decent and if I knew more about it perhaps I might get involved one day.
posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:25 PM

I just love Jeff Dunham's (the other white meat) new character Ahmed the Terrorist

Have you seen him?

Of course the jalapeno on a stick is good too essa's...........

posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:31 PM
posted by kangarue on Oct 27, 2007 at 12:53 AM

Hahah I love the Terrorist! A..... C... flem....

Je-fah-fah Dun-HAM---dot com!

posted by ernestomdo on Oct 27, 2007 at 01:06 AM

"How dare US scary brown people (BOO) have culture, heritage and love for our ancestors and the beliefs that they had. So when is that NRA meeting?

Ernesto, antiextremism was being sarcastic. "

and so was I John...

posted by myxlnt1 on Oct 27, 2007 at 01:13 AM
Chico,  Don,'t  please  Don't turn my blog into a Hispanic language blog.  I have enough trouble with,  08 speak.
posted by robinislost on Oct 27, 2007 at 03:27 AM
I agree with Miss Kangarue's first comment. I agree with her 'cause I'm too lazy to formulate my own opinion. But I don't have the time, either, so there. I don't have a problem with their holiday. I don't have a problem with their language. I'm taking the initiative to attempt to learn their language -- or at least the basics of Spanish, and I'm paying for it. They have a right to their traditions.

No hablo español. (Was that right?) How do you say "I'm flunking Spanish" in Spanish? (Actually, I think I'm passing my Spanish class, but I'll be darned if it wasn't a mistake to try taking college-level Spanish!) Spanish is my easiest class this year. Boy, Chico, that was way too much Spanish for me. I could barely understand any of it. Too many big words.
posted by NancyII on Oct 27, 2007 at 07:15 AM

  "Don't turn my blog into a Hispanic language blog. "

So... — Andrew Mockett from the Californian is myxlnt? 

posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 27, 2007 at 07:31 AM

sorry

If I'd a knowed you wuz an oh eighter Ida not done 'at

I recollect when my bud who live in the dale mowed his lawn last time.

He found 3 cars

posted by ChicoEsquela on Oct 27, 2007 at 07:36 AM

robin (petirrojo)

Fallo clase de español (I'm failing my spanish class)

well, she asked, mr mixalot

posted by artsaalfield on Oct 27, 2007 at 12:46 PM

As a former high school Spanish teacher in Bakersfield, I am heartened to read so many supportive comments on this blog regarding Dia de Los Muertos.  For 15 years, my students observed this special day from the Mexican culture, complete with "ofrenda", "pan de muerto" and "Catrina" and "Zapatista" masks and puppets.  As some bloggers have implied, Dia de los Muertos and Halloween have the same roots.  While the former is a mixture of Catholic/Christian and Aztec beliefs, the latter is a mixture of Celtic and Christian beliefs.  Dia de los Muertos (aka: Dia de Todos los Santos, or All Saints' Day) is observed on Nov. 1, just as it is in many cultures, while Halloween (from All Hallows Evening, or the Eve of all Saints' Day) is observed Oct. 31.  Lastly, Halloween is designed to display a fear of the dead, while Dia de los Muertos is designed to honor the dead.  So Dia de los Muertos is no more like "voodoo" than Halloween!

Cynthia Saalfield

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