no and no............. politics suck

 They are lucky they are not in China doing this..the outcome would be totally different...think I'll just stay home and breath this ' clean ' air compared to the filth in China....I'm with ~Gube~ on this.....answer: No and No........10-4?

 The problem with a boycott is that many of these athletes only have a small window where they can be competitive.  An 8 year gap would kill the Olympic hopes of many athletes.  It would be nice to see countries and athletes. boycott the opening ceremonies.

I think the torch ceremony is going as it should, as an opportunity to take a look at China.

Boycott the opening extravaganza,which is China's PR moment,then play and win what games our athletes can considering the pollution there. China (insert adult word here)!

 I think the opening ceremonies are half the reason these athletes train night and day to go to the Olympics. The honor and patriotism that they must feel when they walk into the arena waving the American flag is something that they have worked hard for. Politics and sports suck. let them compete.

 Wearing black arm bands or some other unofficial protest image might be the answer, or people turning their back to Chinese national anthem or some other gesture.

Compete~ but I think they must feel the most patriotism as that gold,silver or bronze medal slips over their neck and the anthem plays.The show case of the nations is really Chinese attempt to show they have changed.I'd be happy with them winning nothing this year.Unfortunately politics and the Olympics are part and parcel in this day and age. I thought the cube was way cool when I first saw it,now all I see is Darfur and Tibet's blood running.Dead monks and old men,women and children......I'd feel more of a patriot not being part of China's horses and pony show.

 SF, I think you either need to be there or not be there.  An armband would be fine, but turning your back to the Chinese anthem seems over the top because it is the anthem of the people, not just the government.

Gube, the problem is that the Olympics are not just about sports or there wouldn't be an opening ceremony.  My point I suppose is that you should remove the political aspect if you don't support the politics and just focus on the athletics.

 Time to practice some of Dr.Martin Luther King's teachings.....Passive Resistance....let them compete....find another way-and get out of the way of that tank----our own citizens did that with the black glove salute on the medal stand--remember.......

 Tom...just throwing out ideas, but as lingtaowoo maybe some of Dr. Martin Luther Kings teaching, Ghandi, would be helpful.

 Well hopefully this will shed more light on the real china. Why aren't there more documentaries on the real worlds we live in. All most of us know is what the media feds us and we all know that their main curse is chit.

 It would be LIVE-UNCENSORED-and worldwide....no hiding the truth....just don't violate any of China's laws cause the will lock you down for 100yrs. or throw you under that tank-and there won't be a damn thing anyone can do about it---China is another WORLD governed by THEIR LAWS....

 Lingtaowoo: That was exactly what I was thinking of (the raised Black glove incident). Using such a large scale event to get your point across without using violence is a good idea. I also like the idea of putting pressure on countries by way of NGOs to implement changes in policy. I brought up a similar idea to my professor a year ago and he told me to "get real". 

 He's right----China is another world within itself.....the world as a whole can suggest what they want to China--but China has the last say as to how their country WILL BE RUNNED......and its not just China...alot of countries around the world are standing up to us and are saying to The United States to stay out of their business----Bush sold MILLIONS of military equipment to Saudi Arbia and the asked to open up some of those oil valves.....response: the old thumb on nose salute-----yup..they really respect The Bush..and one day our sons and daughters will have to go up against the military hardware The Bush sold to them....Remember...China backed N.Korea...and thats still NOT resolved.....Bush making a deal with N.Korea is still called giving aid and comfort to the enemy......don't we still hang people for that?

gube,netflix has two good documentaries(just a quick look at their site) "China from the Inside"PBS,more modern day stuff and "China:A Century of Revolution",a comprehensive overview.

 China does have the last say. But I would also say that economics and public perception play a part in international relations. I'm sure any developing country would appreciate the economic windfalls of the Olympic games. As a form of multilateral politics, why not use the Oly games as a institute of change? I think that preferable to say, military might or some other aggressive policy. What other avenues would you propose to bring such an issue to light?

 The U.S. can say whatever it wants over it own people as well since it's a sovereign nation but the international scrutiny due to the raised fist put domestic problems on the international stage and it was a disgrace. I would also say it played a part in instituting change in America. What better place for two young Black Americans to voice their displeasure (and be "heard") with American policies than the 68 Olympics?

 And we showed the world that if any of us didn't like the way anyone was preaching a way of change or running the country---that we would just up and take up a high powered rifle or hand gun and make history...I for one am damn glad that nobody took out Bush...that would leave ' Mr.KBR' running things---and I don't look good in red coveralls.....

 I thought the raised fists were about the civil unrest (people being killed, Jim Crow, inequality, etc). I wouldn't want anyone to kill a leader, either. I much rather someone make a political statement or protest.

jfancis~ interesting you bring up '68, thats the heart of my post for today . I only made it six months into that year(and left out major events)and can not beleive what happened in those 12 months...

 There has to be a way to Passive Resist---no violence-----and have the world see it......by any nation that wishes to participate....of course our history would make that null and void....Democracy is not right for all...Putin is thumbing his nose at Bush.....Bush is leaving..Putin isn't going anywhere...and he is getting stronger....and don't forget those friends of Alia that wants all those virgins when they die...they want the bomb too....imagine if they had that and detonated it during Super Bowl.....that will make you spit up your pop-corn.....remember,they took down two towers right in front of us---whats next

 The 1968 Olympics Black Power salute was a noted human rights protest and one of the most overtly political statements in the 110 year history of the modern Olympic Games. African American athletes Tommie Smith and John Carlos performed their Power to the People salute at the 1968 Summer Olympics in Mexico City.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

 Sage: I've been watching a few of the documentaries/shows on RFK, MLK, and 1968 over the past few months and it makes me realize how we've revised how we perceive those events of the past. MLK was a hated figure (not just in the South) and the death of RFK was celebrated because he was a "n---er lover". We look at them now through iconic eyes. We're really not that far removed from those events, historically speaking, but from a generational pov, it seems so far away.

As I watched the show on CNN last night regarding MLK. I remember hearing people saying things, such as he was uppity, trouble maker, communist, etc etc etc.

The establishment never likes a the radical.

That is very true jfrancis Tavis Smiley did an excellent week on the Civil Rights Museum and MLK~ MLK  was hated  and when you watch that last speech...one wonders,and hopes it is just ones imagination,that he knew he had not long to go. Click here in Wiki,world wide events,so much chaos...amazing stuff really.That year should be studied in our history and the worlds history as a pivotal one.

China cares little for resistance of any kind~ so this is one opportunity to for the world's people to protest for those in China and it"s "countries",such as Tibet,that can not.

 sage thanks for info on the documentaries.

 SF, I wasn't beating up on you for the anthem thing, just adding my two cents.  You're spot on about MLK.  He was called a communist and a radical along with the standard racial slurs by the establishment at the time.  His message was about more than racial equality.

 TomW, diddnt think so and didnt take it that way :) I understood where you were coming from.

I do think China has us over a barrel since they are keeping our dollar afloat and own a lot of Wall Street. Very similar to how Europe & the US had them back at the turn of the last century.

 Yup, SF.  One tenth of our debt is held by China and if they decided to dump it, it would kill the US economy.  Of course, it would be mutual destruction so I can't see them pulling the trigger on it any more than I can see the US placing embargos or even heavy tariffs on Chinese goods.

 BTW, a "Free Tibet" banner just went up on the Golden Gate Bridge.  http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/...

There is an economic interdependence between the US and China. An organization like the IOC could use its power/allure to award the olympics under the assumption that certain human rights standards will be met or issues could be resolved.

 Is this the same sanction city for illeagals....I wish they could be recruited too so they may defend the very country that they invaded...

The athletes don't need to make any political statements. That's not what they're in Beijing for.

Honestly, do you really believe that most of the U.S. Olympic athletes are concerned with Tibet or "human rights" violations? I don't. They haven't trained and sacrificed for four years to protest, but to win gold medals. The only athletes who would speak up would be those who don't have a prayer of winning a medal and who only want to get their name in the paper or their face on TV.

 Ling, many have been.  http://findarticles.com/p/a...

 John Burns: http://www.iht.com/articles...

Olympic athletes struggle with protest on Darfur

This week, Mendoza said she would let her Nike representatives know about her participation in Team Darfur, a coalition of more than 200 athletes seeking to raise awareness about what Congress and President George W. Bush consider genocide in Darfur. "I want them to know what my role is," she said. When she is not in uniform competing, Mendoza plans to wear her Team Darfur wristbands around Beijing, and she hopes to visit the Darfur region after the Olympics.

So to answer your question, I do believe that some of the athletes care.

 Athletes train not only to win but also compete and take part in the "Olympic spirit". But if you've followed or read about the Olympics over the past 62 years, political statements have been made. Political protests are not new or out of the ordinary. From Jesse Owens competing in Berlin and Hitler refusing to be a part of the medal ceremony to people protesting human rights in Tibet, it's political regardless. You can't escape it.

 Has no one else heard that people planning to attend the Beijing Olympics as spectators have been told by the US State Dept to expect their rooms to be bugged?  I heard this reported a few weeks ago.  I realize it presents a hardship on the athletes when a country bows out of the games, but sometimes you have to take a stand.  It was a mistake to give the Olympics to China to begin with. 

So to answer your question, I do believe that some of the athletes care.

You didn't answer my question at all. I asked if anyone really believed that most of the U.S. Olympic athletes were concerned with Tibet or "human rights" violations. Some may care, or, in the case of Jessica Mendoza (who?), may or may not truly care but want to stand out from their more distinguished teammates.

jf, the story about Hitler refusing to take part in the medal ceremony has been embellished. The truth is that Hitler had planned to leave the stadium approximately two hours before Owens' medal ceremony, and did so.The American media proceeded to make a mountain out of a molehill, mostly done out of frustration due to the fact that Hitler was doing as he pleased politically and there wasn't anything the U.S. or anyone else could do to stop him at that point in time. John Carlos and Tommie Smith didn't exactly go on to star in movies or run for governor after their political statement. Neither did Vince Matthews and Wayne Collett. Remember them? Not too many people do.

The embellishment doesn't surprise me but those moments still transcend sports. They address an issue bigger than the planned moment. Jesse Owens was a fast track star who happened to be Black and in the process disproved the idea of one race being superior or inferior to the other. Tommie Smith and John Carlos were young college students who were idealist. They didn't have an agenda to run for president or make movies, although Smith went one to become a college instructor/professor. Their agenda was a part of a bigger movement among America's youth in the US and raising awareness of the domestic civil unrest. Honestly, I don't think it done for the glory but to make a statement. I have no idea who Collett or Matthews are (but you do) but I knew of the raised fist photo before I knew of Carlos and Smith.

I think most Americans, athletes included, are ignorant to the Tibet/China situation (myself included). All it takes is one person to make a statement and bring the issue to the forefront. Not everyone agreed with Carlos and Smith.