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talkofthetown - > Talk of the Town -> Lingering thoughts about 9/11
Lingering thoughts about 9/11
 The events and ramifications of 9/11 are so widespread and encompassing that all of our lives have felt its impact.

It's there every time we travel. It's there on every news report about the deaths in New York, Washington D.C. and Pennsylvania.

And we see the survivors -- adults and children, who are battling with grief, lung problems and nightmares.

America is trying to recover and cope.

It's hard to see if there is an end, except for time and new generations — who didn't live it — that will regard it as a history lesson in much the same way of the World Wars.

It's unsettled now. It seems the best we can hope for is a wary peace.

Posted by Steve E. Swenson
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posted by talkofthetown on Monday, September 11, 2006 at 09:00 AM
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1 2

posted by randomfactor on Sep 11, 2006 at 07:33 AM
Sadly, it could have been mostly over by now.
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Sep 11, 2006 at 09:57 AM
I saw someone today with "remembering 9-11" painted on the back of their gas guzzling SUV. No wonder they were driving so slow. Probably chatting on the phone too. I think it's more important to move on rather than dwell on what happened 5 years ago.
posted by JulieJordanS on Sep 11, 2006 at 10:18 AM

My daughter, Emma, got upset with me when I suggested she take a copy of  my well worn copy of “Chicken Soup for the Soul of America”… the best selling book that contains her name and a bit of the story of her experience as a four year old on  September 11, 2001.

 

Her teacher wanted the children in her fourth grade class who actually remember that momentous day to bring photos to class - “No, Mom, that embarrasses me. I just want to bring pictures.”

 

I read my words that were published in this very popular series of books  this Saturday during my poetry performance at the (burn the witch) all woman’s art show at the Empty Space theatre… and it made me cry… my message, so deeply embedded in my heart… held up against all that has transpired since that day, five years ago.

 

I am finding it a bit challenging to focus today. I’m remembering………..

 

posted by anonymous on Sep 11, 2006 at 11:03 AM
9/11, a media event, a gift that keeps on giving for the republiken party. If it happened anywhere else, it would just be sad history not a living memorial.

If you cannot cope as a result of 9/11 after five years ago you need psychiatric help.

 

posted by anonymous on Sep 11, 2006 at 10:53 PM

Can't you whiners take even ONE day off? 

What does an SUV or a cell phone, have to do with this day ?  

Hindsighted people like Randomfactor wanted 9/11 treated like a law enforcement problem.  After the towers were bombed in 1993, and Clinton did nothing, liberals were satisfied that we had a trial and put an old blind turd in jail.  They have too many old blind turds that they will exchange for skyscrapers.  When somebody f's with us, they are going to get their desert turned to glass.  

"...it could have been mostly over by now."   We have to be more careful now.  Wars are more complex. That number that some bozo keeps putting up about the death toll in Iraq doesn't even realize that while that number seems horrifically large to us now, it would have been nothing in past wars.  Wars are messy.  Diplomacy doesn't solve everything.  Why didn't England negotiate with Germany?  Oh; they did.  As Chamberlain said "Peace in our time."  Boy was he wrong, and so are you. 

posted by randomfactor on Sep 12, 2006 at 06:06 AM
The Brits treat terrorism like a law-enforcement problem because that's what it *IS*.  So do the Belgians, who just caught 17 Christofascists.
.
It could have been mostly over by now if we'd stayed in Afghanistan and done the job there instead of lying our way into Iraq.  We'd have had lots of help, too.  Forget about Poland.
.
Yeah, using nuclear weapons against the people living *NEAR* the people who attacked us wouldn't cause more terrorism.  
.
Did I ever say we had "peace in our time," Warren?  At this point, I doubt we're going to have "peace in my kids' time."
posted by Glocker on Sep 12, 2006 at 06:12 AM
9/11 was and is more than a media event. It also has nothing to do with party lines you idiot. The murderers that took charge of those planes cared not for what anyones party affiliations were. Just as they don't care what yours are now. They wished to kill all that do not follow their beliefs then just as they do now. Have you forgot that this happened on our soil? 
Because it happened during a republican term in office it was a gift to them? Perhaps in your little mind we should have just appeared on TV and made empty threats never to be carried out as previous administrations did? Multiple threats of hunting down the bad guys without actual action did nothing to stop the attacks on our soil or interests throughout the world. Idol threats are just idol threats, nothing more, nothing less.
Is your last name Chamberlain by chance? Do you really think that the only plots that have been foiled since that day are the ones that are publicized in the media? If you believe that this war is fought only to help party lines, then you need to seek help yourself for you are living in a dream world as a bitter, warped person who may be obsessing a little to much about politics.
posted by randomfactor on Sep 12, 2006 at 06:17 AM
I didn't say 9/11 was a gift to the Republicans...but it's interesting to hear you think that.  
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Given that this administration politicizes *EVERYTHING,* including the identities of covert agents and cryptographic secrets, yes, I believe that the plots announced are the only ones "foiled"  (if even *THEY* were.)
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This war *IS* being fought to aid the Republican party and help it stay in power.  And that's why we lost.
posted by Glocker on Sep 12, 2006 at 06:28 AM
Random, I agree that it is a law enforcement issue. But it is also a battle that should and I believe is being fought on many fronts. While the Brits are fighting it as you state, so are we, and every other nation that is involved. It is a combined effort, military and law enforcement.
I do not believe that it would be over or alomst over if we had stayed in Afgan. It was and is a movement that is bigger than the Afgan battles. While I don't agree 100% with the premiss of the Iraq invasion, I believe that had the U.N. quit smacking Iraqs hand and taken real action against things they knew were going on it would not have escalated to where we are today.
Sad to say but I feel that you are 100% correct that we will not see peace anytime soon.
posted by Glocker on Sep 12, 2006 at 06:31 AM
Random, I was not refering to you with the "gift" comment. It was anny.
And the repubs are not the only ones to politicize issues. The last admin did it as much as the one currently in power........
posted by randomfactor on Sep 12, 2006 at 06:32 AM
It's definitely getting bigger than the Afghan battles:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id...

Wonder if Bush is planning to pull a Reagan in Syria in retaliation.
.

Whatever may be said about the UN sanctions against Iraq, you've gotta admit they worked.  No WMD's.  None.
.
If we'd gone into Afghanistan and *STAYED* there, done the sorts of "nation building" we've abandoned now in Iraq, well, bin Laden might be on trial or dead now, and Afghanistan wouldn't be having their biggest-ever opium crop. 
posted by randomfactor on Sep 12, 2006 at 06:42 AM
Glocker, a specific example of Clinton politicizing the death of 3000 people, por favor?
posted by Glocker on Sep 12, 2006 at 06:46 AM
Becuse of what I do, I get a chance to talk to many individuals rotating back to our world. It's very interesting to hear their perspective on the issues that are written about on these blogs. I guess you can say I get to hear more sides than the average person. If you ever get the chance to talk to anyone who has rotated back, listen to what they say. I have talked to both military and those from the "private contractor" sector and for the most part they have the same things to say. It reminds me of Vietnam, get the damn politics out and let them do their jobs................
posted by randomfactor on Sep 12, 2006 at 06:56 AM
Iraq, too, reminds me of Vietnam.  Blaming the media and those who oppose the war for the failures at the very top of the command structure.   It'll end the same way, too, with helicopter evaculations from the fortress in Baghdad.
posted by Glocker on Sep 12, 2006 at 07:35 AM
Since Mr. Clinton did not have to deal with the deaths of 3000 individuals in a single day, I can't cite anything specific. However I think you understand my point. Both sides play games, it's not just one side or the other that relies on the b.s. to reach the goals they wish to see accomplised. They (both parties) are full of horse munure when it comes to telling the truth or should I say the whole truth. Politics are politics, and have been since before the Romans conqured the world...............it will never change.
posted by randomfactor on Sep 12, 2006 at 07:42 AM
Alas, Glocker, that's generally the tune:  "They did it FIR-R-ST!"  Well, it has never (in my lifetime) been done as blatantly, as cynically, or with such a bad result as in this Administration.  That's why I (and apparently most historians) believe Bush will go down as one of the three worst, if not *THE* worst, president.
posted by TomW on Sep 12, 2006 at 09:50 AM
For anyone who missed it, Keith Olberman knocked one out of the park last night.  Olberman isn't even a liberal, but if we had a liberal media, it might look something like this
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Sep 12, 2006 at 10:08 AM
Oh, that rocks.  Every word is true.
.
"The only positive on 9/11 and the days and weeks that so slowly and painfully followed it… was the unanimous humanity, here, and throughout the country. The government, the President in particular, was given every possible measure of support.
      Those who did not belong to his party — tabled that.
      Those who doubted the mechanics of his election — ignored that.
      Those who wondered of his qualifications — forgot that.
       History teaches us that nearly unanimous support of a government cannot be taken away from that government, by its critics.
       It can only be squandered by those who use it not to heal a nation’s wounds, but to take political advantage.
       Terrorists did not come and steal our newly-regained sense of being American first, and political, fiftieth. Nor did the Democrats. Nor did the media. Nor did the people.
       The President — and those around him — did that."

.
What word of this is untrue?
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Sep 12, 2006 at 10:13 AM
Finally, someone out there that so eloquintly says the words that are on so many people's minds. It's refreshing.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Sep 12, 2006 at 10:17 AM

Funny thing; if we really had a "liberal media," we'd be hearing speeches like this three times a week.

 

posted by TomW on Sep 12, 2006 at 10:26 AM

It's that last part that gets to me.  It sums up so much in so few words. For context, he's speaking in front of the World Trade Center Site.

When those who dissent are told time and time again — as we will be, if not tonight by the President, then tomorrow by his portable public chorus — that he is preserving our freedom, but that if we use any of it, we are somehow un-American…
When we are scolded, that if we merely question, we have "forgotten the lessons of 9/11"… look into this empty space behind me and the bi-partisanship upon which this administration also did not build, and tell me:
Who has left this hole in the ground?
We have not forgotten, Mr. President.
You have.
May this country forgive you.

Really though, the whole thing is worth the read.  Even more worth watching, just to get the sense of how painful the day is for him since he lost four friends.

posted by anonymous on Sep 12, 2006 at 10:30 AM
"Politics are politics, and have been since before the Romans conqured the world...............it will never change. " is that what we are trying to do? Are we the modern Romans?

"Cowards die many times before their deaths, the valiant never taste of death but once, of all the wonders that I yet have heard it seems so strange to me that man should fear the necessary end that comes, when it will come.
posted by anonymous on Sep 12, 2006 at 07:39 PM
If Clinton were still President , you guys would be waving flags, instead of trying to undermine our President in the middle of a war.  Your feigned support of the troops is exposed as BS when you constantly try to undermine the mission, thereby NOT supporting them.  You give hope to the enemy and encourage them to prolong their doomed struggle.  You are costing US troops lives, and all just so you can have back the POWER that you all crave.  Don't count your chickens yet. People are finally realizing that they have been brainwashed by a never-ending chant from liberal media that the war on terror is a failure.  From the ash-heap of failure, Dan Rather looks on bitterly, wishing he had never attempted to push a phony story on Bushie.  This country will wake up in time for the elections, and the same media that predicted Democrat victory in 2002, with the same headlines they use today, will be exposed as the lying hacks they are.  Shills such as those in these local chatrooms, are nothing but life's losers who lament their misfortune and wish the same on others.  Don't fall for their sour grape take on current events. 
posted by TomW on Sep 13, 2006 at 12:15 AM
Anon, lemme clear up a few things for you.  First, i do still wave a flag.  I love the flag.  If you think there are people walking on the flag, you're right.  But it ain't us.  As for not supporting the troops, that is insane.  We're not trying to undermine the mission.  We don't even know what the mission is.  Neither do you.  Is it to get Saddam?  To stop Iraq?  To prevent the smoking gun from being a mushroom cloud?  I can't keep up with the rational of the weak.

As far as giving hope to the enemy, George Bush was QUOTING OSAMA BIN LADEN ON NATIONAL TV LAST NIGHT!!!  YOU THINK THAT DOESN'T GIVE THEM HOPE?  When Bush goes on national TV and says that if the streets of Bagdad are not secure, America will have suffered a great defeat, you think that doesn't encourage terrorism?  Bush has given Bin Laden everything he ever asked for, including the war in Iraq.

As for Dan Rather, the story is absolutely true.  The document was confirmed over the phone by the woman who wrote it.  It was a fake copy of a real document.  The only reason Rather is sad is because he worked for a company that had business with the FCC.  If you want to say the document is false, that's ok.  But don't pretend that the story was wrong.

As for the country waking up in time for the elections, I think they already have.

And sour grape take on current events?  I think you're a bit confused on your allusion.  We want the Congress, we want the Senate and we want the White House.  When we win 42 seats in Congress this fall (my official prediction) and 7 seats in the Senate, the Republicans will do the sour grapes thing, saying they didn't want it anyway.
posted by anonymous on Sep 13, 2006 at 01:30 AM

Let's see:  "They'll never get Saddam.   They'll never get  Zarqawi.  They'll never hold an election in Afghanistan.  They'll never get a constitution in Iraq."  When Bin Ladin is captured, you will all say "What took so long?"  

DNC strategory this November:  We hate Bush, we hate WalMart,  we hate Bush,  gas is too high,  we hate Bush,  global warming, we hate Bush.  

Oil now below 64 dollarsa barrel.  6 weeks ago, Democrat ninnies were saying it was going to go to $100.  I am still waiting for Lieberman to crash, as you guys said should have happened by now.  Maybe not the windfall you had hoped for? 

A fake copy of a real document?  Confirmed over the phone.   Was she in Area 51 at the time?  Maybe Dan should have first gone public with the story on Art Bell.  

You clowns don't see everything falling into place:  Dow approaching all-time high, gas 50 cents lower than 2 months ago and falling, Ken Lay dead, Arnold signing minimum-wage bill.  By the time November is here, gas will have fallen even more and Iraq troop numbers will go down.  The only thing Democrats can do is reach into their old tired bag of tricks and pull out the old standards:  class-envy and race-baiting.  With more Blacks and Hispanics joining the middle class, this too shall pass.  

The last century gave us the death of communism; this one will give us the death of another failed system - liberalism. 

 

 




posted by TomW on Sep 13, 2006 at 08:24 AM

Let's see: "mission accomplished".  We knew they'd get Saddam.  We controlled half the country and the last time we attacked Iraq, Iraqi soldiers were surrendering to camera crews.  Don't set up straw men.

DNC Strategy this fall: are you safer now than you were six years ago?  Are you better off now than you were six years ago?

Oil is going down, no doubt.  Funny how that happens before every election.  Oil will go to 100 dollars a barrel, just not during an election season.

Lieberman is now the Republican candidate, for all intents and purposes.  He'll lose this fall along with 7 or so other Republican incumbant Senators.

The story on Bush is right.  He left TANG during Vietnam to work on a campaign.  Notice how the attack was on the document, not the facts of the story?

As for things falling into place, I do see it.  The Dow has been close to it's all time high since Bush took office.  You'll need a Democrat to get it moving again. Arnold may win, but it'll be close.  If he can run far enough, fast enough from Bush, he might hang on for another term.  Here's what you should look at: Anyone who supports Bush or can be painted as supporting Bush is going to lose this fall.  If Bush keeps giving speeches, his numbers will keep falling.  He's one disaster away from falling below 30%.  It may be another port deal or another hurricane, one of the many illigal things he's involved with going to court or something bad in Iraq.  He's spent his political capital and now he's dragging his party down with him.

posted by TomW on Sep 13, 2006 at 08:26 AM

People are tired of incompetance.  They're tired of laziness.  They're tired of the all hat and no cattle Republican leadership.  They are tired of being told to be afraid.  A lot of Republicans who are great people have seen this President skip from one disaster to the next, leaving a trail of broken cities, broken countries and dead bodies in piles behind him.  New Orleans, Iraq, even the hole in the heart of New York City, this are all the legacy of NeoConservativism.  You'd better hope liberalism doesn't fail, or soon enough the whole country is going to look like the Gulf Coast does a year after Katrina.

posted by Hardliner4freedom on Sep 13, 2006 at 08:29 AM
I don't foresee too many new Blacks and Hispanics (or whites) joining the middle class, Warren.  The middle class is already shrinking and squeezing out its existing membership.  In places like L.A. and S.F., it's already gone.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Sep 13, 2006 at 08:31 AM
TomW, you're missing the biggie:  We're tired of the all-out all-fronts war on our Constitution.
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Sep 13, 2006 at 08:53 AM
We're tired of having fear thrown at us daily, and being told that our incompetent leaders are the only ones that can protect us.
We're tired of the fear speeches from Bush and Cheney every 2 years. (((election cycle)))
We're tired of campaigns spending 90% of their money on attack ads. (thank you dvr for letting me skip commercials)

America is a strong country. If Bush thinks any damn terrorists can harm our way of life by blowing up a building or train or whatever, then he doesn't think very highly of our resolve does he. America shouldn't let Bush and Cheney make all of us out to be a bunch of cowards just because they started a war with no actual goals or no way to determine whether it's over or not, or have any sort of competence in stopping the violence there. We defeated Hitler and faster than this, and he took over half of europe. The terrorists are doing more harm to us economically by having us drain our treasury in Iraq than if they actually physically attacked us here.

What is our goal in Iraq? Does anyone know? Why isn't Bush asking anyone other than the soldiers to sacrifice anything for his war? We aren't even rationing gas.
posted by SCHLEP on Sep 13, 2006 at 09:43 AM
You only hear about the Americans  killed.  You seldom hear about the bad guys buying it, in droves.  Iraq is like a roach hotel to these schmucks.  They are heading to Iraq from other radical countries.  Maybe these countries are now safer because so many of these thugs are in Iraq, getting their asses shot off.  NBC doesn't want to tell you about that, that might help Bush.  It seems so many forget Libya deciding to abandon their nuke aspirations and agree to let UN inspectors have a look.  This is a result of their seeing our resolve to root out terrorism.  Kaddhafi might rethink his decision today, if he saw the resolve of US media to undermine the war.  

posted by anonymous on Sep 13, 2006 at 09:50 AM
Don't be so gloomy  about the media, shlep.  ABC News reports new polling in Bush's favor, regarding the war.  Maybe it has something to do with their show the other night on 9-11 ?  Did you watch it?I missed it to watch the game.
posted by randomfactor on Sep 13, 2006 at 09:59 AM
I missed the movie because it was crapulous.  Bush is up in some polls, down in others. Never above 45 percent, rarely above 40, usually within the margin of error.
.
Most of those fighting our troops in Iraq are home-grown, not foreign.  And they're mostly killing Iraqis these days, after torturing them.  They learned from our example after all.
.
Kaddhafi was planning to rehabilitate his image before Bush did anything.  But then, he's smarter than Bush is.  He may well be biding his time, but that's because he knows Bush is going to blow it.  Again.
posted by jimthewatcher on Sep 13, 2006 at 10:03 AM
GOOD GRIEF TOM W HAVE YOU READ THE RUBBISH YOU PRINT. THE ONE GREAT THING THAT I AM TIRED OF IS INDIFFERENT, LAZY AMERICANS WHO WASTE THEIR TIME ON THIS SORT OF ACTIVITY AND DO NOT GET OUT AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.    ALAS OLE TOM THAT INCLUDES ME.
posted by TomW on Sep 13, 2006 at 10:23 AM
Jim, I have.  I "waste my time" on this sort of thing while I'm working.  If you think I'm not getting out and doing something about it too, you'd be wrong.  By the way Jim, what did I say that was incorrect?
posted by robbwillis on Sep 13, 2006 at 10:26 AM
If anyone should be upset about the "Path to 911" movie, it should be George Tenet. He came off as a total boob.
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Sep 13, 2006 at 10:32 AM
If we were lazy and indifferent, would we really be typing this much? Ever think this is our way of "doing something about it"

PS, please take your caps lock off.
posted by randomfactor on Sep 13, 2006 at 10:36 AM
How could *THAT* be, Robb?  Didn't Tenet get the Medal of Freedom?   But it fits with Cheney's effort to destroy the CIA...
posted by TomW on Sep 13, 2006 at 10:40 AM

Jimthewatcher?  Any errors of mine you'd like to correct?

posted by robbwillis on Sep 13, 2006 at 11:05 AM
Hey Random,
Maybe Tenet got the medal of Freedom for for the same reasons Lucille Ball, Julia Child, Pope John XXIII, Arnold Palmer, Martha Raye and Frank Sinatra got one. But going by what I saw in the movie, Tenet got the award for his resemblence to another recipient: Helen Keller.
posted by randomfactor on Sep 13, 2006 at 11:12 AM
They all helped sell a war the country didn't need?
posted by robbwillis on Sep 13, 2006 at 11:16 AM
I was thinking more along the lines of acting, looking important, puttering around and being deaf, dumb and blind...
posted by anonymous on Sep 13, 2006 at 12:04 PM
" Is your last name Chamberlain by chance?" I love it when you talk stupid.

As for gas coming down, it is only an election ploy back to close to 4 bucks by Christmas. The free market  in neither free nor a real Market. 3% control the wealth and the manipulate the Market at will.  If things go bad for their favorite party they turn it down, if the Republikens are falling, they turn it up, and who is to question, there is absolutely no oversight of their activities.

China and India must be cutting down on their fuel consumption, at least that is what the super 3% claimed was driving prices up. oh wait is the Katrina in waiting that did not happen so will that bring prices down below 2 dollars a gal as before Katrina? Not in a Wall Street minute. So enjoy your big truck and SUV, a bit more than yesterday, because tomorrow you will be back to July prices and more.

"Let's see:  "They'll never get Saddam.   They'll never get  Zarqawi.  They'll never hold an election in Afghanistan.  They'll never get a constitution in Iraq."  When Bin Ladin is captured, you will all say "What took so long?" 

Lets' see, they got Saddam and the war is going great we are making great strides. We got Zarqawi, and now it is possible to walk outside the green zone, kinda if you have good insurance and an Abrahams tank.
They held elections in Afghanistan, and now we have peace, and lots of heroin,  but they don;tknow that we have peace and keep shooting at us.
They have a constitution in Iraq, and that constitution and 10 dollars will get you a cup of coffee in the green zone, depending on whether you are Sunni, Shiite or Kurd.
As for Bin Ladin, it is not yet October and we still have a few hideouts and safe houses in foreign countries, be patient we will show him before the election.
And why it  took so long....well, timing is everything.
posted by Glocker on Sep 13, 2006 at 03:28 PM
"I love it when you talk stupid"
That's a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.......................
posted by anonymous on Sep 14, 2006 at 07:21 AM
Tom W:    Who on the right, told Americans to "be afraid" as you said above? 
posted by anonymous on Sep 14, 2006 at 07:22 AM
Mission accomplished referred to the mission of the carrier.  Leftist media decided to spin it to mean Bush was arrogantly acting like the war was over.

I guess if Bush told a waiter at a restaurant, I'm finished" media would be out with the story "Bush to resign" says "I'm finished".
posted by NancyII on Sep 14, 2006 at 07:31 AM
There's a difference between being "afraid" and being alert and aware.
posted by randomfactor on Sep 14, 2006 at 07:41 AM
"Mission Accomplished" did *NOT* mean just the carrier.  You bought that spin?  You probably bought the lie that it was the Navy's idea.  Oh, and the one where they said Commander Codpiece had to jet out and meet it when in fact they turned the bloody ship around so it would look better on television.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Sep 14, 2006 at 08:58 AM
Ohfercrissakes, Whineywarren...  Nevermind the fact that there aren't any leftist media to spin things, there's only one thing better than Snopes to debunk that nonsense about "mission accomplished" only referring to the carrier.
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That site is http://www.whitehouse.gov .
.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/n...
President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended
.
"
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed."
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Sep 14, 2006 at 09:22 AM
I get it. Major combat operations was referring to the carrier itself. Why didn't I make the connection before?

To think the whole time I thought they were trying to make themselves look good and just goofed with the sign.
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