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talkofthetown - > Talk of the Town -> Unlicensed contractors, how the bad guys can win
Unlicensed contractors, how the bad guys can win
I have a sense of fairness that is royally violated by these scenarios.

It is the unlicensed contractor or his family who sues a homeowner when something goes wrong on the job.

Thus the unlicensed contractor benefits from his own injury and the homeowner who hired him, maybe out of trying to do a guy a favor, is the one who pays.

The moral is don't hire unlicensed contractors.

Here's an example of what I mean: Thomas and Vivian Nelson of Ventura hired Luis Flores, 23, an unlicensed tree trimmer, to cut off some branches near a power line.

Flores was using an aluminum tool when he made contact with a 14,000 volt power line and was electrocuted, dying on the spot.

If Flores was a licensed contractor, he would have been insured and the Nelsons would have no liability whatsoever.

But as an unlicensed contractor, he was an employee of the Nelsons. Because he had not yet put in 52 hours of work for them, the Nelsons' homeowners insurance could not kick in.

It was the parents of Flores who sued the Nelsons for their son killing himself by illegally using a tool within six feet of a power line. The Nelsons are personally on the hook for any award.

This was all decided by the Second District Court of Appeal in April. (2nd Civil No. Bi79275)   Other courts have made similar rulings.

The theory behind all this is the homeowner in an effort to save a buck can be held liable for injuries.

I understand that, but it galls me that an unlicensed contractor or his family can benefit from the unlicensed contractor saving money on his license and insurance.

Posted by Steve E. Swenson
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posted by talkofthetown on Thursday, November 2, 2006 at 01:18 PM
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13 comments from 11 users

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posted by randomfactor on Nov 2, 2006 at 11:46 AM
Steve, the guy was killed.  It wasn't *ALL* profit on their side.
posted by robbwillis on Nov 2, 2006 at 12:50 PM
Good deal for Julian Rodriguez’s tree service. Is it back to business as usual for them or did they have to pay a penalty? 
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Nov 2, 2006 at 01:05 PM
Exactly RF, how did the "bad guy" win when he died?

I don't really think it's fair of the Flores' to sue either. This is definately a good warning for homeowners. I've had a neighbor try to save money by using a non-licensed contractor to do cement work. They poured on a rainy day and ruined the slab. Oops. But they did save $100. Licensed tree trimmers are just as important, unless you want one of those clubbed trees like I've seen on Truxtun. Take the hit and hire an Arborist.
posted by dgrealish on Nov 2, 2006 at 01:11 PM

I had a "tree service" trim my eucalyptus trees once.  The "owner" was in one of the trees with a chain saw, while his "employee" was on the ground loading branches.  The owner slipped and was dangling from a branch with one arm while he held the running chainsaw in the other hand.  His employee told me not to worry, he'd be fine, it happened all the time.  A few months later, I saw them roll into a gas station.  The employee jumped out of the pickup and threw a piece of wood in front of the tire to stop the pickup.  My husband trims the trees when they need it now.  It's safer and he won't sue.

posted by ScaryMary on Nov 2, 2006 at 01:51 PM
I brought this case home for Steve to see.  Its one of several such cases that I see in my business. The same principle holds for most work which requires a license.  If you hire someone to do work and you dont check their license and insurance you could be in a world of hurt.  We had a case a few years ago where an unlicensed uninsured tree trimmer was hired by a homeowner. The tree trimmer fell from the tree and became a paraplegic. That homeowner will be paying benefits equal to workers comp (2/3 of his salary to whatever the maximum was in the year the accident happened)  plus all the medical bills for this tree trimmer for the rest of his life..... and I have seen at least 3 such decisions since then.. Two with tree trimmers and one roofer.
When I first moved to Bakersfield in 96 I hired one of those tree trimmer guys who drives up knocks on your door and offers to do the job for much less than you could hire a company to do it.  It was only about a month later I saw my first case of a homeowner getting ordered to pay for the injuries....I never hired one of those guys again and when one hassled me I threatened to turn them in to labor standars enforcement.  
The "independents" out there under cut the guys who go to the expense and trouble to get licensed and insured....and it creates an underground economy and an unequal playing field. 
posted by anonymous on Nov 2, 2006 at 02:07 PM
" If Flores was a licensed contractor, he would have been insured and the Nelsons would have no liability whatsoever." apparently there are no lawyers where you live. A license is not a guarantee that you will not be sued or even found liable. It is fair to say that even when contractors claim a license, that is not always the case and few people will question the license if they believe that they are getting a good deal.
My experience with a licensed contractor was years ago in Fremont Ca. I hired him to roof my rental house and because he had been recommended and had an excellent reputation from other contractors , I paid out front $4600.00 only to have him start the job,never finish  and walked off.

This was in the late 80's so it is probably better now.
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Nov 2, 2006 at 02:12 PM
Anybody need their tree trimmed?

I'm cheap!
posted by TomW on Nov 2, 2006 at 02:16 PM
It's not.  I work in construction.  Never hire anyone without a license.  They don't give a damn about the work.  Check their license too and their insurance.  A good contractor will have a copy for you to keep.  I hire unlicensed people for small jobs sometimes when they are working with me.  Otherwise, forget it.
posted by anonymous on Nov 2, 2006 at 02:46 PM

What about Gardeners?  If they (or one of their employees ) happen to get injured on your property, are you responsible?

posted by randomfactor on Nov 2, 2006 at 02:51 PM
IANAL, but yes.
posted by steveeswenson on Nov 2, 2006 at 05:40 PM
"and when one hassled me I threatened to turn them in to labor standars enforcement. "
Geez, no wonder they call you Scary Mary. Remind me not to get on your bad side.

And great question about the gardeners. I don't know the answer. But it has to be a business which requires a license, and I'm not sure gardeners quality.

And, yes, Anonymous, I know anyone can sue anyone, but a licensed contractor has insurance for such situations and a good lawyer would get the homeowner off the hook.
posted by anonymous on Nov 3, 2006 at 06:37 AM
The Problem is this the State Agency who enforces the Contractor Laws (CSLB) www.cslb.ca.gov is itself awash of wrong doing them selves. They have had our Contractor RW Hertel & Sons, Inc. under Investigation for years without any results EXCEPT the investigators were removed for giving the builder inside info to protect themselves when confronted the investigators admitted they are defunct builders themsleves and do NOT like to see fellow builders in trouble so Bakersfield beware this builder is NOW doing business in Kern County..............He has caused massive construction defects all over San Luis Obispo to Ventura
posted by NancyII on Nov 3, 2006 at 07:30 AM
Let's see.  A guy decides to go into business for himself.  Chooses an occupation where there is a lot of risk  (tree trimmers..roofers) of falling, slips and actually falls injuring himself and he can sue YOU because it was YOUR fault.  Yep..that makes sense to me.  Now I know where to get my retirement money.  Anyone have a spare chainsaw I can borrow?  I promise I won't sue you if I cut myself with it.  Cross my heart.
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