HR3400 is Christmas all year long for the health insurance industry. After this lame attempt at trying to deceive Americans. How could anyone believe anything that comes out of McCarthy’s mouth.

TK: possibly because we know better then to argue/discuss anything with a rock. And yes, I know you all will turn that sentence around and aim it at the conservatives. Have yourself a ball.

WP:  I'm still wondering when they're going to get back the 1,700 stimulus checks mailed out to prison inmates.  I'm wondering how we're going to get back the nearly million bucks Social Security Administration spent on a spa vacation in (I believe) Las Vegas because of their "stress."  I want to know when they're going to get back the 10,000 stimulus checks that were sent to dead people. 

I want to know how worthwhile is the study of the sex life of the Japanese quail is -- at a cost of $107,000.  And the U.S. spends $700 billion a year on various welfare programs, amounting to $65,000 for each poor family of four, yet we still have the poor with us. 

The last paragraph can be looked up on the National Center for Policy Analysis Federal Spending & Budget issues for 8/26/09, titled "National Suicide."  http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd..._.  It was also interesting to learn that one of the "more outrageous pork projects ..." is $150,000 to study the Hatfield-McCoy feud. 

Heck, fire, they'd have more fun looking into the feuds on this blog site.

They are also spending hundreds of thousands for a "committee" to study humans sex lives.  HUH???

Wit/ali

The things you point out are anomalies.  Bankruptcy in the private sector has become the norm.

Did you hear about the 'Cash for Clunkers' mess?  The bulk of the funds went to Toyota (Japanese owned) and Hyundai (S. Korea owned) and now analysts are reporting that used car prices are going through the roof because so many perfectly running used cars are now scrap.  New car dealers are also reporting that sales have tanked since the program ended - and they still haven't received the money due them from the federal government.  But the left-wing robots keep saying that Obamacare will make everything better and cheaper.

Here's a better slogan:  YES WE CAN'T!

Wit/Ali.Mexico/Dril/Never

Why can't you say it. McCarthy's/republican HR3400 will drive America to bankruptcy.

Say that McCarthy's plan is to enrich the health insurance industry.

Say it is so or prove it is not.

Yep, Toyota only has about 9 plants in the US. Oh the horrors.

The cash for clunkers program was a complete sucess. How could you possibly be such a pessimist that you would still dis it?

Savvy,

Toyota and Hyundai are both made in America by Americans. You see something wrong with that.

But I get your drift. You feel that Obama should have pulled the plug on American industry. Let the Auto workers go unemployed.

Your one heck of an economist Dude. I am sure glad that Warren Buffet is on mine and Obama''s side and not you.

And I am sure you speak for all Auto dealers when you say that you wish not a single car would have been sold.

If there is indeed any increase in price. It will be tempered in short order if half your predictions come true.

If the dealers don't sell cars the price will come down. That's capitalism, that's supply and demand.

Tkoz.

How much is Obama giving families for health insurance?

This chart doesn't even include the SSN Ted Kennedy healthcare plan.....

Mexico,

The  deficit is Yours You poured it into  Iraq and and the TARP financing of wall street. And tax cuts for the wealthy.  You and Bush managed to raise that deficit. Without spending a nickle on the American Citizen. 

Not one penny of that deficit is due to Health reform, Any one with common sense know s your game. You are exposed. 

Now what about McCarthy's 5000 buck gift/ family to the health insurance industry. You got a way to pay for that? 

Conservatives. What about McCarthy's 5000 gift/ family to the health insurance industry. You have to stand up for it. You own it. Don't run from it like children from the bogey man. 

You praised HR3400 McCarthy Praised HR 3400. Now you have to defend it.

The $5000 is a tax refund. It was their money to begin with.

Now tell me how the SEIU/Acorn bills pay for Ma and Pa Kettles health insurance......

mexico,

You know nothing.

It is a refundable tax CREDIT.

Read the bill before you open your mouth and insert foot.

The Republican plan pays for insurance for those that can't afford it with tax credits.

The Democrat plan written by SEIU/Acorn pays for insurance for those that cannot afford it by printing more money?? And that is good for the economy???

mexico,

How does McCarthy and the republican plan pay for those refundable tax credits????

Refundable tax credits do not grow on trees.

Hey, just print more money.  Just like Obama plans on paying for the SEIU/Acorn/Ted Kennedy healthcare package...

The difference is, the patient gets to decide what insurance he wants, how much of it to get, what the terms are, what doctor he wants to see, etc. etc.  He gets to decide what is the best insurance for his family.  Not some overpaid Czar in Washington who has no idea what this man needs. Get it??

Told ya you guys.........Ron, Savvy & Alicen.....................ya just can't have a discussion with rocks correction, boulders!  They are too thick!

mexico,

You better read the bill. McCarthy is going to appoint one of those health czars that you so deeply despise. And those with pre existing conditions will be forced into a high risk insurance plan managed by the state.

And of course you health care decisions will be determined by your ability to pay the out of pocket expenses. There is a 10,000 buck annual out of pocket expense called for in the plan.  How is someone going to pay for that on an income of 200% of poverty level? .

There is nothing in the bill that forces an doctor to accept your insurance and it's payments. 

The 5000 buck McCarthy gift to health insurance will be lucky to cover catastrophic coverage for a family of four.

You know nothing of the bill.  

Your wrong on all counts.

mexico,

You better read the bill. McCarthy is going to appoint one of those health czars that you so deeply despise. And those with pre existing conditions will be forced into a high risk insurance plan managed by the state.

And of course your health care decisions will be determined by your ability to pay the out of pocket expenses. There is a 10,000 buck annual out of pocket expense called for in the plan.  How is someone going to pay for that on an income of 200% of poverty level? .

There is nothing in the bill that forces an doctor to accept your insurance and it's payments. 

The 5000 buck McCarthy gift to health insurance will be lucky to cover catastrophic coverage for a family of four.

You know nothing of the bill.  

Your wrong on all counts.

wit,

All you have to do is answer the question. Just stay on topic. And I will listen.

I found a plan thru Anthem that was $408/month, $5000 annual out of pocket limit, and a maximum benefit of $7million per person, for a family of four......

So, for $5000 a year, a family of four can get coverage of $28 million dollars......

It pays to shop around.

mexico,

5000 out of pocket is catastrophic coverage. That is not health insurance.

Give me a link. Show me the coverage on paper.  Show me the service area and the list of available doctors and Hospitals. What type of drug coverage. Give the age group covered. Is maternity covered?

You can not just make up numbers and toss them out and expect anyone to believe them.  Anthem is Blue Cross. You are not going to get a  Comprehensive Blue Cross PPO plan in Bakersfield for anywhere near that cost.

And rememeber. It was you that said McCarthy said you could see any doctor you wish. That's a PPO plan not a HMO.

 Is maternity covered?

Why should maternity be covered?? That is a preventable condition.  Why should and insurance company, or government, or your next door neighbor pay for your baby??  Isn't that something that you should think about before you decide to have a baby??  I don't get the "its all about me" mentallity of people on this board.  Hey, if you don't want to pay the medical bills for a baby, don't get your self knocked up.....

mexico,

That is a disgusting excuse for a even a catastrophic plan.

That’s 5000 buck deductible that is not counted against your 5000 dollar out of pocket. So that means 10 grand per year out of pocket. Plus 5 grand in premiums for a total of 15 grand per year. Only 5 grand of that would be reimbursed in the form of a refundable tax credit.

In patient hospitalization you pay 650 bucks per day.

30% co pays.

No maternity

You have to use in network providers. You can not just choose any doctor. Out of network doctors are 50% co pay and out of pocket goes to 20000 bucks with a 10 grand deductible not counted against the out of pocket expenses.

15 bucks or 40% co pays which ever is higher on drugs.

You should be ashamed of your self if you should think this is the type of plan that McCarthy and the republicans are offering for over 400 bucks a month.

I will say it again. The McCarthy plan is Christmas all year round for the insurance industry.

http://www.anthem.com/wps/p...

Mexico,

You are going off the deep end. Maternity care is essential to the well being of our children. Are you suggesting abortion for those that have accidental pregnancies?

Without pregnancy our species would go extinct. It is a essential part of mankind.

Are you suggesting that McCarthy feels that only gays get full coverage?

Are you suggesting that McCarthy doesn’t want health care reform. He wants to codify restrictions on coverage for women? To not just prevent choice when concerning abortion. But also choice when concerning sexual relations with ones spouse?

You have become very foolish my boy.

Too bad this isn't Slashdot. I really wish I could deduct points from Ron every time he posts that same old graphic. Hey, let's invent a new term for it... "Ron's Law"... kind of like Godwin's Law (where you lose the argument for making a Nazi analogy), except it means Ron has lost the argument every time he posts that image.

Here are some bottom lines...

The profits for Toyota et al go to HQ in Japan, just as the profits for Ford in Europe come to America. The fact that they keep people employed locally is not the point.

Cash for clunkers was absolutely NOT a success. How many of the people who bought new cars will be able to keep the payments up in a year? The people who this was supposedly designed to help will get NOTHING, as it's unlikely they couls afford a new car even with the "down payment" from an older car. The cars that were turned in had to be destroyed, not returned to the aftermarket where they could be sold to lower income families who can't afford new car payments.

If you're going to tell your detractors to read 3400, you'd better read 3200!

3400 isn't the answer, but neither is 3200. You're telling Ron to "admit it", why dont you?

Moto,

Wrong again. I am asking Conservatives to read their own bill. Even you.

Stay on topic. Answer the question.

I am doing my bet to understand both bills. I am not a democrat puppet. I want health care reform. I am sick of the ‘NO’ people. Those that plead they want reform. But only Reform without change.

3400 puts no limits on insurance charges. How does that make it affordable.

How do Conservatives envision paying for the 5000 buck refundable tax credit with out tax increases. Over half the families in America would qualify for that credit. A credit that would not provide enough money for even a decent catastrophic health insurance plan.

How can being tossed into a high risk insurance program provide for choice in choosing ones physician and care facilities.

Stop avoiding the questions.

Give me answers.

I am tired of hearing ‘NO’

The things you point out are anomalies

What tkozy calls anomalies most sentient, rational beings refer to as "patterns."

The  deficit is Yours You poured it into  Iraq and and the TARP financing of wall street. And tax cuts for the wealthy.  You and Bush managed to raise that deficit. Without spending a nickle on the American Citizen. 

I'll take "what current president voted for TARP financing while he was in the Senate" for $500 Alex ;-)

Not one penny of that deficit is due to Health reform, Any one with common sense know s your game. You are exposed. 

Hmm, remember how many pennies the CBO estimated Obamacare would run up the deficit? Or did common sense vacate you the minute you logged on?

Zap,

That bill was proposed by Bush/Paulson as the only way to prevent the destructon of America. You know that. 

The chart that mexico posts has absoluty no reform money figured in. Those deficits reflect on the TARP money, the tax cuts for the wealthy and Wars in the middle East.

That bill was a total and colossal clusterf****. We all know that. Hell, most people should have known that before it was rammed through. I not only hold it's authors responsible, but those who enabled it to pass. Obama pretending like he had nothing to do with the current deficit is disgusting at best. Perhaps he is right to believe his supporters are too stupid to believe that and let it slide, but most persons with critical thinking skills should call him on that.

/yes that goes for Republicans who voted for it as well.

Zap,

Obama was what? A 21/2 year senator. and he is responsible for the 8 year destruction of the American economy.

Bush put his signature on the proposed bill and the finale bill.

It is Bush's bill. And it is Bush's trickle down economy that caused the failures.

Your complaining about the water damage after the fire dept put out the fire.

Bush signed the 800 billion dollar stimulus?? What are you smoking??  IT was all Obamas and the Democrats.

The Stimulus Package, which was voted on before anyone had even read it, was not supported by any Republicans. IT was supposed to stop unemployment at 8.5 %. Unemployment is already 16% acording to some government sources...

Sorry, Koz, the stimulus package is all Owebamas....

mexico,

I said TARP money. You can read can't you?

Oh, you mean HR 1424??

The one that passed with 40 Democrat votes for, including Owebama, and only 9 democrats no??

Or was it the one Barney Frank sponsored, in which 242 democrats voted Aye, while only 18 republicans voted for it...

Is that the bill you are talking about???

If you have 40 dems voting for. You also have 34 republicans voting for.

Yeas Nays PRES NV

Democratic 172 63

Republican 91 108 Independent

TOTALS 263 171

And few Republicans voted for the bill didn’t they?

Senate

YEAs 74 NAYs 25 Not Voting 1

mexico,

Why no conservatives commenting on McCarthy’s 5000 buck per family gift to health insurance.

Tkozy, if you can tell me where to find the bill & if it will fit on the computer I will read it & comment on it. I'd like to see healthcare go back to the way it was when my dad was a kid. You went to see the doctor for whatever, you paid for the services rendered & you were done. Thats the short way of putting it not the 5 billion pages of crap both sides need to write to make a bill lol. I wish the next bill passed would be to make it law the politians have to read all bills they vote on themselves not their aids reading it for them. This might help in making the bills clear & short & to the point.

JM,

You  can find any bill you want to read @

http://thomas.loc.gov/

For the Republican bill chose the bill # option, and enter hr 3400.

One of the democrat bills is # HR 3200.

None of the bills are a finale product.

But you don't have to wait for the bill to be in print to read it. That's just an unsubstanmtiate wacko lie. On both sides of the isle.

This site has been up and running for many years.

Thanks for the link, now is there ANY WAY to make it to were I can understand this thing? I don't speak "lawyer" or "polititian" none of it makes any sense. I guess I need to go find the subparagraphs they note in the document. Granted I only read the summary of it & the first page of the long version, this is going to take ALOT of reading lol.