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tonyh - > The World According to Me -> What’s up with all of this? I don’t understand.
What’s up with all of this? I don’t understand.
Why don’t people stay married anymore? Whatever happened to carefully choosing a partner, marrying, having children and happily growing old together?
 
What has happened to our society that now makes it acceptable to have children out of wedlock? It wasn’t long ago, that this was a disgraceful act, which brought shame upon the whole family. Isn’t life hard enough, without making personal choices that make it even harder?
 
What’s up with all of this? I don’t understand.
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posted by tonyh on Saturday, April 7, 2007 at 08:38 PM
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posted by xlnt1 on Apr 8, 2007 at 01:13 AM
If you'll forgiveI have some thoughts garnered from years of observation.....The answer is religion....and fear.  The religious do not have the majority any more. The liberated people are not afraid of going to hell any more.At least in the blue states.This,in my mind,free's people to live lives as God intended.God bless America!
posted by possummomma on Apr 8, 2007 at 02:12 AM
I think the divorce rate is climbing because young adults, and teens, aren't given a realistic picture of what marriage involves.  You have television shows that make dating, and love, into a reality game show.  You have people who think marriage is the wedding and don't think beyond the white dress and tux. You have people who've been told, by their religion, that the only "moral" way to have sex is to do so within marriage,...so they rush into marriages so that they can have sex without guilt. You have a culture that isn't supportive of the family. You have a large percentage of people for whom instant gratification is the name of the game. You have people who marry too young and too stupid. You have people who don't approach marriage with the same care with which they might approach a car purchase. You have a culture that celebrates "alone time" and "me time". You have people who are afriad to stick-it-out. You have a culture in which children are encouraged to grow up fast and consider a wedding to be "the goal"....in reality, better relationships and life skills should be the goal.  I don't think having a child out of wedlock should be a disgraceful act.  In fact, I think THAT VERY MENTALITY is what causes some young women to rush into marriages with men/boys that they would've otherwise passed on.  I don't think having a child, before your an adult and financially independent, is a good idea!  But, I've known some great single, gay, or otherwise unmarried people who are great parents.  Children born out of wedlock aren't only born to 17 year old girls... Atheists have the lowest divorce rate  amongst ALL philosophical/religious belief systems.  So, I don't think that religion is the golden ticket to long marriages.
posted by coochee on Apr 8, 2007 at 11:38 AM

Time just did a poll that stated, supposedly, 90 percent of Americans are Christian. If that is the case, and the majority of marriages end in failure, it kind of makes you wonder. Maybe it's time they all climbed out of the gay and abortion trojan horses and seriously did some tending to the flock. I'm an aethiest. I will be married for 25 years this May. I do think alot of it has to do with reality. Once the honeymoon is over and you realize that this person farts and belches and is fatally flawed like all humans, and is not the perfect speciman you thought, can you deal with it?

posted by sagefever on Apr 8, 2007 at 12:40 PM
  I am a bastard~ conceived in an unsuccessful attempt at entrapment.The view that shame is the response to bastards is not the same in all cultures or times.Long ago the people from whom I get my genetic makeup held to a tradition.On one night a year what happened was what happened~ any child born of this night became gifts from God,considered a sign of your worth. The organization Bastard Nation has excellent information on the issue,and many  articles on adoption rights  actions.Having been both a single parent and in  a two parent situation I feel it is easiest with two. That takes two committed individuals,if that is not present being two is actually more difficult.We are here to live,that often entails "mistakes"~ but they are often blessings in disguise.i hope whatever situation you or one of yours finds themselves in they come to peace with it.
posted by NancyII on Apr 8, 2007 at 03:01 PM

I think it has more to do with our throwaway society than anything.  "Lets live together to try it out.  If that works, maybe we'll get married...and if that doesn't work out there's always divorce."

We don't keep jobs as long these days, we don't keep cars as long, why would we be expected to keep spouses forever?  When things don't suit us, we just get rid of them and try something new.  That's fine with TV's and sofas but maybe we should work a little harder at relationships.

posted by coochee on Apr 8, 2007 at 04:19 PM

That is a good point Nancy. By nature, I'm a keeper of everything. My car has 300,000 mile on it, the sofa is 22 years old etc. I'm not dazzled by the latest shiney new thing either, except for the Roomba (not the Scooba). The hubby is getting old and his long curly locks are greying on him which makes him look eerily like a cross between Jesus, Geraldo and Jerry Garcia, but what the Hell, I kept everyhthing else. I might as well keep him too.

posted by NancyII on Apr 8, 2007 at 04:37 PM

Coochie...I drove my Plymouth Sundance for 11 years, just bought my first sofa in over 28 years and even at that, couldn't get rid of the old one.  It's in the garage along with it's buddy, the loveseat.  (and I hate the new one)  I have two blouses that are over twenty years old and a sweater my daughter had in high school 30 years ago and STILL get compliments on it when I wear it.  I'm a keeper of old things too..when I really like something, I don't get rid of it.  (I wonder what that says about my two ex'es.)  I lived in a townhouse for 9 years with a 9 month haitus in TN.  When I came back I moved back in the same apt  and put the furniture in the same place.  I finally moved into a house where I also lived for 9 years and only moved this time because the landlord evicted me to sell the house. (which he still hasn't..it's sitting vacant.)

I do the throwaway thing with clothing to some extent...I don't pay a lot for some and that way can have new ones more often.  Quality clothes are basics and stay with me forever as mentioned above.

Relationships continue to elude me.  I'm waiting til I get in the old folks home..that seems to be where people eventually get married.   ;-)  By then, it's too late to throw them away.

posted by randomfactor on Apr 8, 2007 at 07:54 PM
I think the divorce rate has climbed because people are living longer, and they realize they have alternatives to staying in loveless marriages now.
posted by coochee on Apr 8, 2007 at 08:54 PM
Nancy,  he still treats me like I'm the most beautiful, wonderful thing on the planet. I just got very very lucky, and maybe that is a key point too.
posted by NancyII on Apr 8, 2007 at 09:40 PM
RF..that's a definite possibility too.  The stigma of divorce is a thing of the past so people are less willing to be unhappy.
posted by mattloch on Apr 8, 2007 at 10:26 PM
I'm just not sure why having children out of wedlock should be disgraceful, unacceptable, shameful, etc., Tony. If you're such a supporter of marriage as some sort of "glue" to keep together two loving, caring people and allow them to make a stable family unit, are you supportive of two same-sex people being "married" in a loving, caring, livelong marriage? Do you think two people can't make a "family" unit without marriage? I'm afraid that your concepts of marriage above represent a deeper mystery than you've attempted to write about. It seems to me that equally valid questions could be asked about marriage than about the lack of it....
posted by tonyh on Apr 9, 2007 at 06:59 AM

Mattloch,

I wasn't attempting to write about anything. I asked a couple of questions. So far, everyone but YOU have been doing their best to give me their best answers and I appreciate their input. With enough of this good input, maybe I'll come to understand what's going on.

YOU, on the other hand, are the only one who can't seem to play along. This isn't, and WILL NOT become a blog for debate. I've asked a couple of short, but difficult questions, looking for input. I;m not going to allow you to pervert this blog into an argument to push your own agenda.

Answer the questions or don't post on my blog.................It's that simple. 

posted by steveeswenson on Apr 9, 2007 at 08:00 AM
While it is true that 50 percent or more of marriages end in divorce (mine included after 25 years), it is also true that many, many couples stay married for lots of years.

I have friends who have been married, 30, 40, 50 and 60+ years. 

Marriage requires love and commitment that will overcome its disappointments and heartaches. I think most marriages fail because the effort wasn't put into finding the right person in the first place. No one really understands what marriage is like until you're in it.

That combined with the self-absorbed lifestyle of far too many of us leads to the search for greener pastures. It takes effort within a marriage to make it work, and that becomes a whole lot easier when each spouse is squarely within the other's one's corner.

We can be beat up a little bit if we know we have someone who will stop the bleeding and care for our wounds. When that's a two-way street, it lasts forever.
posted by tonyh on Apr 9, 2007 at 08:25 AM

Thanks everybody, for the well-thought responses to my questions. I really appreciate it.

My Wife and I have been married for 21 years and I can't imagine living without her. We were married for 6 years before deciding to have kids. We felt like we needed to prepare for parenthood, emotionally professionally and financially.

Raising kids in this day and time is hard enough when they have two Parents at home.

Sometimes one Parent dies, and that's a bad thing. This is a situation where there is no choice in the matter. I can't understand why someone would elect to have and raise kids as a single Parent. In this case, it's a choice that makes life harder times 10...

Steve, as you put it, we're both squarely in each-other's corner. We've been through a lot of "STUFF" in life, and we always slugged it out as a team. The longer we're married, the more we seem to become ONE. To me, it seems natural. How can this not happen over time? 25 years is a long time to be joined with another, without becoming inseparable. Divorce after that many years has got to be devastating.

posted by mattloch on Apr 9, 2007 at 10:11 AM
Sorry I wasn't "playing" by your rules, Tony. I wasn't trying to "debate", only note that your questions used language indicating a certain bias. I was only trying to clear up if it was intentional, or unconscious. If you want straight answers, here's mine: marriage is changing, evolving, just like many other parts of our society. Whether caused by post-industrial changes, immigration, secularization, or any number of other factors, it seems to indicate that today's society is not as constrained by "tradition" as past generations. Whether part of that or despite of that, I see no reason to prevent same-sex couples from enjoying all of the benefits that society grants to heterosexual couples. I see the changes as amoral, only taking on the ethical dilemma for those who choose to apply it. Why one couple's trials and tribulation would affect other's relationships is beyond me. Marriage is not for everyone. For people to take offense at other's lifestyles shows a certain weakness of their own beliefs, like everyone has to believe in the same thing in order to reinforce it.
posted by camsgirl on Apr 9, 2007 at 05:34 PM

I'm in my third and last marriage.  The same for my fantastic husband.  After all these years I finally found someone who understands that the relationship must change and evolve as the individuals involved change and evolve.  It takes work on both parts to maintain a balanced relationship, as well as trust that your partner will "be in your corner" no matter what put you there. 

For me, the abuse I was subjected to as a child gave me a horrible self-image and my understanding of acceptance meant sexual interaction.  My first marriage was abusive and, no, I would not have married him but for my feelings that no one else would probably truely want me.  After 10 years of that, I quickly (too quickly) moved on to another marriage.  It was less abusive than the first, but my partner had no clue about tending to a relationship and just figured it would go on its merry way no matter what.  That one lasted 12 years and resulted in one child (she actually told him to leave because I couldn't bring myself to do it and she was tired of the arguing and constant tension).  I gave myself some time to heal and try to figure out who I was and wanted to be.  Good Choice!  Cameron suddenly appeared in my life almost 2 years ago and I look forward to a very long and happy relationship.

I've met far too many people who were abused, often sexually abused, as children.  There's so many!  Is it just that people are less afraid to come out about it, or has this cruel treatment actually been on the rise?  When people are broken, and don't know how to be "normal", how can they be expected to make sane decisions?  I think this could be a large factor in all the divorces.  You'd be surprised how many have walked that path.

 

posted by msemilyh on Apr 12, 2007 at 06:15 PM
why don't people stay married?:  the world is increasingly evil, lack of respect, addiction, abuse, manipulation, adultery, dishonesty,  lack of committment, and all the scars that go along with all that. at least that's why i eventually had to divorce my ex.
posted by camsgirl on Apr 12, 2007 at 06:33 PM
Another thought, I commented in another post, regarding child abuse, that single-parent households are more and more common.  This most likely will perpetuate the divorce rate as these kids have  no idea what it is like to be married.  They don't have the tools for how to rationally deal with disagreements among spouses.  Their parental figure for the missing parent may be a passing one as the single parent is dating and these "disposable" parent figures disappear when things get messy. 

How can they learn cooperation, commitment, compromise, etc. that are necessary to maintain a long-term relationship?  There aren't any models.  The baby-boomers had the 50's family, for better or worse, where divorce was less common and, for the most part, most families had both parents.  As we've become more self-aware and more into meeting our personal needs above all else, we've become these new "models" for the following generations.  It's no wonder relationships don't last as long.  We just don't know how to do it.
posted by Roselady on Apr 12, 2007 at 08:04 PM
When the weenie waggles........divorce happens
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