I was waiting to see when someone would respond to the article.  I must agree, the parents and their excuses are jokes.  The parents all have criminal records and to say they were at the wrong place at the wrong time was plain dumb. I'm sure this was not the first time any of these kids were in trouble.

We as a society can only do so much. It starts at home. How are we going to break the cycle? Good question and this should be an interesting topic.  MAYBE, all felons should get sterilized for one as they would not be able to reproduce into society.

Mandatory Spay & Nuter the residents in the gang areas???? No more kids - the gangs will die out - no pun intended.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! I've mentioned that before witters and someone jumped all over me but YEAH, I believe it would work. Maybe Bakersfield should be the testing center.

Bakersfield is a test market for restaurants why no mandatory sterilzation

I recommended months ago on another blog that the MSN people should take along a surgeon to sterilize the irresponsible pet owners as they can't even care for their own kids. 

Wouldn't it be nice if people addressed the real issues? As least homeless pets don't grow up to be gangster thugs with no appreciation or respect for the life of another. The same people responsible for discarded pets are the same people responsible for discarded humans who go on to kill innocent people. JMHO.

There is one girl that I know that just got out of juvenile hall, was in there for drugs and went through a drug rehab program in there.  While she was in there, she and her mother went through counselling and her mother became clean too.  I know this girl because she used to live with her elderly grandparents around the corner from us.  She ran all over those grandparents.  She started hanging around our house as all the kids in the neighborhood did since we had a pool.  She moved in with us for a week but I had to ask her to leave because she did not want to follow the rules.  Our rules were simple...we want to know exactly where you are if you are not here.  We want phone numbers, addresses and the names of parents.  She would just disappear and once did so with one of my daughters who was not nearly as worldly as she was.  I grounded my daughter and sent the other girl on her way back to her grandparents house.  Her mother was a drug addict and had not participated in her life in several years.

This girl hung out with bad kids, did drugs, stole her grandparents' car and credit card, ended up pregnant by a boy who was 19 to her 15.  The baby now lives with the mother of the boy.  The girl ended up in Juvenile hall, on drug charges and in a rehab for 7 months.  While she was in there her mother became clean, started going to counselling with her and promises were made.

The day the girl got out of juvenile hall, she came to see me.  Her mother came to pick her up from "the hall" higher than a kite.  Then her mom and her boyfriend kicked her out so she was back at her grandparents house.  These people are like in their late 70s.  Neither one of them are well enough to take care of a teenager.  Not to mention that this girl has a 1 and a half year old son that she needs to be a mother to.  She just runs the streets.  She will sometimes call us in the middle of the night drunk asking us to pick her up and take her to her grandparents house and we do because we do not want anything happening to her.  We give her rides to her probation officer and to counselling.  These are things her mother should be doing...but her mother is hitting the crack pipe instead.

I think that parents of kids on probation should be drug tested.  My son is on probation and they can drug test me all they want...I would not mind...because I do not do drugs.  I know where my kids are and who they are with.  I do not hang out with gang members.  I try to be an example to my kids.  I hope I am.

Vanityfair...The homeless pets don't grow up at all. 

Maybe it is time to hold irresponsible parents responsible and irresponsible pet owners responsible -- but that would involve more laws -- but who cares...those laws wouldn't affect responsible people, so why not?

MSN for both, sure!

These "parents" need parents! Nonetheless, these boys should have known beating an old man,or anyone for that matter, to death is,to put it mildly "wrong". 

I can not understand the allure of jail. 

meandpete: You have my respect and admiration for trying to help a problem child who isn't yours. While your efforts don't seem to be doing much good, no one can predict the difference in the future. You may very well be giving this child a sense of direction that she doesn't yet understand. Only someone jumping to a pessimistic conclusion would say you wasted your time.

As a father with a teen, no one has to tell me that teens are prone to following their impulses before thinking about consequenses. I have yet to meet the parent of a teen who hasn't at some time scratched his head and wondered what is wrong with this kid? What was he thinking? This seems to go with cutting classes, sneaking out the car, drinking, or--unfortunately--having sex.

vwilroy asked in her original post, "How do we break this cycle?" That is a tough elusive answer. What may be effective for one teen, may not do anything for another. We've all heard or know of devoted, caring parents who send two or three kids off to college and have the thankless task of dealing with one individual who is hell bent to be a failure. As the link pointed out, some kids who come from a disadvantaged home life and criminal parents overcome the odds and become productive successful citizens. 

Incidently, a give-away behavior of children who would commit violence without remorse is their regard toward animals. A child who would torment a dog or cat without apparent reason is likely to have the same insensitivity toward people. I would be curious to know if the boys in custody tortured animals before beating an old man to death. 

personally if ground rules allowed it..Id rather beat on two legged creatures than four...I would also be in favor of MSN for those that walk upright and are irresponsible about birth control and not my furry friends moving around on all fours..We as the more intelligent species can control that..sadly not so true with our own kind..

I know..let's leave it to the family of the murdered victim...BIMHO,raised like a gangsta..lock up like a gangsta..raised like an animal..lock up like an animal...commit a murder..lock up with the rest of the murderers...this is the life they chosen...THAT is how you end the cycle...NO chance to re-produce and pass on those fine qualities...

By the way,was the 'mothers' collecting welfare-(our tax dollars) to raise these fine members of society...then it is particially our fault IF they were collecting welfare money...NOW we have to pay to keep them alive in prison....but that's o.k.--I'm sure they have more children out there being raised the same way....

Well said catpaw. There are no one size fits all solutions. When my youngest was still alive there was an inovative program in L. A. that took young gang offenders and placed them in Special Education classes. Under close supervision they assisted the teachers and aides with feeding, and other activities we all take as a matter of course. At the end of the experimental program the majority of young people had markedly changed their lives,some going into Sp.Ed. Many had said they sought  gang life for a sense of belonging and sadly , a sense of being loved. The interaction with the children ,in the words of one participant,showed her what real love was.

Clearly that approach will not work for all kids,but in a broader sense each person has a "key" to unlocking dispair inside themselves.The trick is finding it.

I agree, Sioux. Margaret Sanger believed in sterilization and euthanasia as a means of improving mankind. She was ahead of her time in many aspects, and this was one of them.

The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.  I don't know when or how the determination is made to remove children from a bad environment, but the whole process needs revamping. 

I posted this a few days ago, but it's worth repeating.

Children Learn What They Live
By Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph.D.

If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.
If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.
If children live with fear, they learn to be apprehensive.
If children live with pity, they learn to feel sorry for themselves.
If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.
If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.
If children live with shame, they learn to feel guilty.
If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.
If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.
If children live with praise, they learn appreciation.
If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.
If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.
If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.
If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.
If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.
If children live with fairness, they learn justice.
If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.
If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.
If children live with friendliness, they learn the world is a nice place in which to live.

Copyright © 1972 by Dorothy Law Nolte

Children learn by example and they are not just watching their parents for those examples.  Music videos, video games, TV shows,  and movies have all glorified behavior that in the past would not have been condoned. As members of the purchasing public people need to let the distributors and retailers of this trash know that it is not what they want their children exposed to.  So yes again it is the parents and grandparents who are the first and most important guide to acceptable behavior.  How is a teenager who is still learning the right way to behave supposed to be a good role model as a parent?  You have to pass a test to get a drivers' license but most anybody can produce offspring no training necessary.

Thats a whole lotta IF'S...raised like a wild pit bull...be treated like a wild pit bull..you really think that those PARENTS of these MURDERS are reading this....step one(1)....must know how to read....like I said,Let the family of the murdered victim determine their fate...it's their right to be heard

As usual, TBC has messed up a headline. The headline for this article should have read, "SUP, WHERE THE PARENTS BE AT?"

ROFLMAO!!!!!

(might I add OB) while shouting "SUP, WHERE THE PARENTS BE AT?" -Throwing out the W's or E's with both hands.....

I still believe in the old saying "Monkey See Monkey Do".  If these kids are seeing their parents going in and out of jail, using drugs, violence, they probably watch their moms throw down in the street with other moms, watch their dads or mom's boyfriends beat the crap out of their moms or even out of them.  This is probably what they know.  I am sure that they know that beating a poor elderly man to death is wrong,  but these kids are raised without consciences...human life means nothing to them...that is purely obvious. 

So explain the uppity family that works really hard everyday, drive a fancy car, live in a fancy house, all the children attend school on a daily basis, and the parents have never been in any trouble ........and then their little angel goes out and murders in cold blood.......oh maybe he was too spoiled......this is b/s... stop putting the blame on these mothers...the dads are probably gone. It is very hard being a single mom. These boys know right from wrong. I honestly believe if these moms could do it over again they would make sure their children were at home that morning.

Yes parents can do more to prevent incidents like this from happening but some things are out of our hands...

timec, with all due respect, it happens much more often in situations of this type than in the "uppity families" you refer to.  There is so much to be said for teaching by example.  Serving time and seeing parents on visiting days become normal for these kids. 

Timec-PLEASE!! I too, know it is very hard being a single mother but my kids aren't hoodlums and their dads weren't around.   Alot of kids are raised by single parents and turn out to be fine citizens. My kids didn't grow up visiting me in Lerdo or talking to me only by phone from jail. My kids were raised by me . The thing is most of these kids mothers have been in trouble with the law as well. 

These kids won't do hard time and I can almost bet you at least 1 of these kids will kill again in their future.  Anyone care to raise it to two?

Its going to be a sad day. These boys will be labeled "products of their enviroment." Its going to be a sad day because all parties involved including us will be cheated. The tax payers being us, will fork out $36,000 each a year to house these little monsters (a college eduacation could be purchased for the same price). But more importantly the famiy of the victim will be cheated true justice, an eye for an eye. Its going to be a sad day.

Couldn't agree with you more GrizzlyCoach.

Maybe some one will punch their ticket while they are awaiting trial. We can only hope.

DG

All I am saying is that this can happen to anybody. Did the Columbine Killers parents have a criminal record? Did those Mendez boys parents have a criminal record? Did the University of Virgina boys parents have a criminal record? Does Bruce Sons parents have a criminal record? Does Matt Reeds parents have a criminal record?

I know the majority of all of the black boys that have murdered someone in Kern County? Most of there parents have never been to jail. Most of them just live in a screwed up neighborhood and they got caught up in the wrong crowd...

If my little brother were to go murder someone today would it my mothers fault...I think not. My mom preached don't take nuttin that don't belong to you, keep your hands to yourself, respect your elders, trouble is easy to get in and hard to get out of.....but if he decided to kill that is on him not my mom. My mom attended college and has always provided for us...we wanted for nothing...parents can only do so much.

Michelle

I can guarantee you this...you don't know what your kid is capable of doing. S*** happens. I can tell you all day long that my children would never kill..and I honestly believe that to be true......but will I bet my life on it..hell no......because you just never know. There are children that have the world and they start using meth...why? Parents always question themselves ...where did I go wrong.  I don't believe these parents did all they could do to prevent their children from being thugs....but the death of this man is not the parents fault.

Don't get my wrong I would feel responsible but let's be honest ....would it be my fault? The answer is no.

Did the parents do all they could do? I think we all can agree to "no" they didnt. As parents all we can do is the best we can. Provide the essentials, teach, role model and love. Were these children taught that, and if they were would they have commited such an act? I dont know, and I wouldnt bet my life on it, but the chances do drop. The parents are to blame in this case, but in the cases you stated timec maybe not.

 Michelle

 We did things when we were young that we would ever do now. I believe they will commit another crime because prison and YA turns troubled kids into monsters.....but I do not feel they would ever kill again.

I do believe the parents are somewhat to fault.  I'd really like to see if any of these kids already had a probation or juvenile record. Also, I'd like to see the school attendance record of these kids. 

Griz

I do agree with you..... these are some sorry a** parents but to blame a murder on these parents is a bit harsh.

I dont know about our education system, but thats another topic. And this is not a slant on our teaches, I feel you guys are sent to war with a broken sling shot and bubble gum for ammo.

 Somewhat is better than the total blame....

timec -

But not to put any responsibilty on them is going a little light.

These kids are old enough to know right from wrong but had they had 1 or 2 stable,  consistent parent/s, maybe this wouldn't have happened. 

Grizzly-I do not believe the schools or teachers are at fault here at all. They are not babysitters.  I would like to see the attendance records to see if the parents actually sent the kids to school.

This happened during their summer break though. Or am I wrong?

June 14, so yes, during summer break.

However, don't assume these thugs even attended regular school. My guess is they were at best attending one of the continuation schools for the ones who are already in the "system."

Maybe someone could post their First day of schools paper on 'what I did during my summer vacation' whatta memorable story line that would be..

I know someone will jump all over this, but here goes.

In many ways I feel sorry for these kids. They were not born bad just as pit bulls & rotweillers are not born bad. Kids respond to how they are treated. With rules, responsibilities (sometimes a smack on the butt) and love they will flourish. Without – they become the pit bulls of the streets

Their parent(s) were not there for them, I’m basing this on the arrest records posted in TBC, and it doesn’t seem anybody else was either. I’m sure as soon as they were able to toddle out of the house the gangbangers took over the raising of these kids.  One of their dads was killed in a gang related shooting.  Moms on drugs, stealing, going to jail, etc. I was raised by a single mom. She worked. She taught us early on, the right way and wrong way of the world, what was expected of us as people part of a community, taking responsibility for ones actions. All that teaching rolled downhill to my daughter and now to her sons.  That said how were the parents raised? Probably the same way they are raising their kids, or maybe not. I see pictures of these moms and I have to wonder, what were they like as children? What was their home life like? They were not born bad either.  Where did it all go wrong?

If you have not taught a child the right and wrong of things by the time they are 7 or 8 it is pretty much a lost cause.  They have become who they are going to be.

Witterpitters, I see your point.

There is a system in place to help in situations like this but it seems to me that not only is this system failing miserably in the present, it is also perpetuating the cycle of crime and child-neglect to live on in future generations. 

One hundred years ago, this would never have happened as children like this could not have survived for many different reasons (and no, this has nothing to do with race), but much to do with respect, ethics, economics and a sense of purpose. 

Earlier on this blog there was some discussion about whether the parents are responsible, and I say absolutely. What the hell are minors doing roaming the streets in the middle of the night/early morning like a pack of dogs? The parents (or should I write "guardians") are responsible for their children. Period.

Now, if they were adults, that is a different story IMHO.

The boys were entering high school in the fall, correct?  They were probably still on the roll sheets of a public junior high.  These troubled sorts usually get weeded out in high school.  I don't know of any sort of continuation school for the younger kids.  Does anyone out there?

All of the comments for and against the parents' responsibility are rooted in serious thought.  This blog alone probably contains more thought on parenthood than the parents of these kids ever had.  I know that sounds brutal, but vanityfair's comment about roaming like a pack of dogs in the pre-dawn glow of a summer morning is spot-on.  Most teenagers don't even want to be awake at that hour.

If only the alpha member of the group had said, "Come on, that's an old man.  Leave him alone with his cans."

It's like watching a group of kids pick on the handicapped kid at school.  You've got to be feeling pretty low and hopeless to pick on the less fortunate, the weaker, the older, the disadvantaged. 

Who can put together a parent panel of the kids involved so we can chew on their responses to our questions?  Then we'd have more than conjecture to go on.

Who can put together a parent panel of the kids involved so we can chew on their responses to our questions? 

Maybe the churches can help you out Baby. I'm sure they don't want "whitey" in their face.

Maybe the "alpha" kid was the one leading the group.

Really sad that these kids even had that kind of thought process in their heads. Maybe they picked on a weaker person because they were the weak ones in a different venue - at home or in the gang. Sh** rolls downhill.

I'm sure their parent/s would not even know how to respond to any of our questions or they may simply say it's none of our business.

No sense of purpose, no understanding of the value of a life, parents probably swinging in the hammock (safety net) of public assistance when they aren't incarcerated ... I think there should be an investigation regarding the social workers charged with monitoring these children. Surely, with the parents' criminal records, CPS has been involved.

Ahh, the nanny-state. It's working out so well, isn't it?

AAHHHHHHHHHHH  yes, another yada, yada, yada group heard from. 

How many times has this kind of rhetoric blasted forth from the the churches AFTER a horrendous murder? Which church group was it that was given hundreds of thousands of dollars to do what this group is saying they want to do? Where's the money being spent? Where's the "help" for these kids?

They form committees to "look into" what they should do. Then THAT committee forms a "sub-committee" to "look into" what they should do. They sit around coffee pots and donuts for months accomplishing nothing. Then there is another horrendous incident and the hue and cry goes up yet again - hold hands and pray in the parking lot - get the "sub-committee" off their tushes, give us more money to do this. And still........................nothing changes.

The only place I see really trying is the boys & girls club and even they got broken into and stuff trashed.

Yes witters, you are right again. It's after the fact people say they will help and that help eventually goes away. Why weren't these committees out in the streets before this? Also, the boys & girls club and the PAL center have big brother programs for the youths if needed. These parents know this help is out there but don't seek to receive it. It's all FREE!!