http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335 The $8 minimum wage has profound impacts on business, columnist Marylee Shrider writes this week. She's seeing it in higher prices on menus around town. And the business owners and managers she talked with say it's making them adjust hours down and hold off on hiring. So was the $8 minimum wage a good move? &mdash; Christine Peterson The $8 minimum wage has profound impacts on business, columnist Marylee Shrider writes this week. She's seeing it in higher prices on menus around town. And the business owners and managers she talked with say it's making them adjust hours down and hold off on hiring. So was the $8 minimum wage a good move? &mdash; Christine Peterson en-us <p>The outcome really doesn't surprise me. I've seen it happen before and expected it again this time.</p> <p>The $8 minimum wage wasn't a good idea. This was known and predicted before it was passed.&nbsp;I guess &quot;Seeing is Believing&quot;, or maybe not, for some folks.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203977 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203977 <p>The outcome really doesn't surprise me. I've seen it happen before and expected it again this time.</p> <p>The $8 minimum wage wasn't a good idea. This was known and predicted before it was passed.&nbsp;I guess &quot;Seeing is Believing&quot;, or maybe not, for some folks.</p> <p>Obviously it is NOT Tony&nbsp; (re &quot;seeing is believing&quot;)</p> <p>Many of us warned just this would happen</p> <p>Unfortunately, the people for Min Wage are not business people</p> <p>They are Pols, Libs, and Feel Good Types</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203979 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203979 <p>Obviously it is NOT Tony&nbsp; (re &quot;seeing is believing&quot;)</p> <p>Many of us warned just this would happen</p> <p>Unfortunately, the people for Min Wage are not business people</p> <p>They are Pols, Libs, and Feel Good Types</p> <p>Yup, every time we pass the minimum wage, all the businesses say they won't survive.&nbsp; Then all the businesses gripe about how hard it's made things.&nbsp; Then they all do fine.&nbsp; Look at the areas of the country that have the highest minimum wage.&nbsp; How are those places doing?</p> <p>The probem with people who are against the minimum wage is that they have no understanding of economics.</p> <p>Edit: I'll add to this that I'd like to see MaryLee follow up on this in six months to see how business is.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203982 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203982 <p>Yup, every time we pass the minimum wage, all the businesses say they won't survive.&nbsp; Then all the businesses gripe about how hard it's made things.&nbsp; Then they all do fine.&nbsp; Look at the areas of the country that have the highest minimum wage.&nbsp; How are those places doing?</p> <p>The probem with people who are against the minimum wage is that they have no understanding of economics.</p> <p>Edit: I'll add to this that I'd like to see MaryLee follow up on this in six months to see how business is.</p> <p>Ya', too bad the &quot;Feel Good&quot; only lasted a few seconds. We'll be dealing with the damage for years to come.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203984 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203984 <p>Ya', too bad the &quot;Feel Good&quot; only lasted a few seconds. We'll be dealing with the damage for years to come.</p> <p>Actually, Tony, every time the minimum wage goes up, wages increase in the bottom 3 quintiles of income.&nbsp; If by &quot;damage&quot; you mean &quot;expanding middle class&quot;, that seems about right.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203990 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203990 <p>Actually, Tony, every time the minimum wage goes up, wages increase in the bottom 3 quintiles of income.&nbsp; If by &quot;damage&quot; you mean &quot;expanding middle class&quot;, that seems about right.</p> <p>and I support worker rights to earn a fair wage, which benefits all people.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203991 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203991 <p>and I support worker rights to earn a fair wage, which benefits all people.</p> <p><i><b>The probem with people who are against the minimum wage is that they have no understanding of LIBERAL economics.</b></i></p> <p>Mattloched that for ya...............</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203993 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203993 <p><i><b>The probem with people who are against the minimum wage is that they have no understanding of LIBERAL economics.</b></i></p> <p>Mattloched that for ya...............</p> <p><i><b>and I support worker rights to earn a fair wage, which benefits all people.</b></i></p> <p>Thanks for prividing a real life real time&nbsp;example:</p> <p><i><b>They are Pols, Libs, and </b><span style="color: #ff0000"><b>Feel Good Types</b></span></i></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203995 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203995 <p><i><b>and I support worker rights to earn a fair wage, which benefits all people.</b></i></p> <p>Thanks for prividing a real life real time&nbsp;example:</p> <p><i><b>They are Pols, Libs, and </b><span style="color: #ff0000"><b>Feel Good Types</b></span></i></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>It doesn't take a math genius to see a that a $1 increase in the minimum wage at most restaurants would not result in more than a 1% raise in total costs to the restaurant.  Maybe that $20 meal needs to go up 25 cents; big deal if someone can feed their kids a little better.  So what is really causing restaurants to raise their prices?  Anyone ever hear of inflation from higher oil prices?  Or sky rocketing food prices because all our surplus corn has been turned into fuel for our SUV's?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203996 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203996 <p>It doesn't take a math genius to see a that a $1 increase in the minimum wage at most restaurants would not result in more than a 1% raise in total costs to the restaurant.  Maybe that $20 meal needs to go up 25 cents; big deal if someone can feed their kids a little better.  So what is really causing restaurants to raise their prices?  Anyone ever hear of inflation from higher oil prices?  Or sky rocketing food prices because all our surplus corn has been turned into fuel for our SUV's?</p> <p>What good are increased wages if the cost of goods and services go up too. When things smooth out, there's NO increase in buying power, so those increased wages did nothing. In the mean time, the economic turmoil that the rise causes, prices a lot of people out of certain goods and services. This causes spending to decrease temporarily, which hurts the job market for those minimum wage earners. They actually get hurt in the short run by the shock wave. In the long run, it doesn't do a damn thing for anyone.</p> <p>&quot;The problem with people who are against the minimum wage is that they have no understanding of economics.&quot; Nobody here said anything about being for, OR against a minimum wage. Before you proclaim us all to be a bunch of blithering idiots, maybe you should read the article.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203999 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_203999 <p>What good are increased wages if the cost of goods and services go up too. When things smooth out, there's NO increase in buying power, so those increased wages did nothing. In the mean time, the economic turmoil that the rise causes, prices a lot of people out of certain goods and services. This causes spending to decrease temporarily, which hurts the job market for those minimum wage earners. They actually get hurt in the short run by the shock wave. In the long run, it doesn't do a damn thing for anyone.</p> <p>&quot;The problem with people who are against the minimum wage is that they have no understanding of economics.&quot; Nobody here said anything about being for, OR against a minimum wage. Before you proclaim us all to be a bunch of blithering idiots, maybe you should read the article.</p> <p>Chico, there's no such thing as &quot;liberal economics&quot; or &quot;conservative economics&quot;.&nbsp; Of course, if you understood economics, you'd know that too.&nbsp; I think a follow up piece should clear all this up for you though.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204000 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204000 <p>Chico, there's no such thing as &quot;liberal economics&quot; or &quot;conservative economics&quot;.&nbsp; Of course, if you understood economics, you'd know that too.&nbsp; I think a follow up piece should clear all this up for you though.</p> <p>Perhaps some people missed the part where the business owners said they are cutting hours, not replacing workers&nbsp;and removing benefits?</p> <p>Sounds like we really helped out there.....</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204001 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204001 <p>Perhaps some people missed the part where the business owners said they are cutting hours, not replacing workers&nbsp;and removing benefits?</p> <p>Sounds like we really helped out there.....</p> <p><span style="font-size: small">Well tell Ms. Shrider to check out the new 79 cent menu at Taco Bell...saying the min. raise is the cause for higher prices ,is like getting out one cactus thorn and thinking you got them all.Synergizium,interconectivity..economics is many faceted.</span></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204003 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204003 <p><span style="font-size: small">Well tell Ms. Shrider to check out the new 79 cent menu at Taco Bell...saying the min. raise is the cause for higher prices ,is like getting out one cactus thorn and thinking you got them all.Synergizium,interconectivity..economics is many faceted.</span></p> <p>I told my wife in 1970 if we make $ 5.00 per hour we would be rich&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I started @ Kern Rock right after that for $ 4.65 per hour</p> <p>I worked for Culligan in 65/70&nbsp; for $ 300,00 a month&nbsp; with five of us we really had to make ends meet</p> <p>When I meant my wife i worked for Safeway Markets I told home $ 13.13 a week&nbsp; believe me I didnt wine and dine her&nbsp; but I was a box boy and only worked Sat/Sun</p> <p>When I went into Dispatch @ Kern Rock in 1992 over $20.00 per hour&nbsp; a very nice truck&nbsp; four weeks vacation and a retirement plan</p> <p>But I really enjoyed the $ 300/400 a month income&nbsp; all of us family and friends seemed to be together more nobody had anything but I believe we were happier then</p> <p>Money plays agaisnt family and friends</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204004 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204004 <p>I told my wife in 1970 if we make $ 5.00 per hour we would be rich&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I started @ Kern Rock right after that for $ 4.65 per hour</p> <p>I worked for Culligan in 65/70&nbsp; for $ 300,00 a month&nbsp; with five of us we really had to make ends meet</p> <p>When I meant my wife i worked for Safeway Markets I told home $ 13.13 a week&nbsp; believe me I didnt wine and dine her&nbsp; but I was a box boy and only worked Sat/Sun</p> <p>When I went into Dispatch @ Kern Rock in 1992 over $20.00 per hour&nbsp; a very nice truck&nbsp; four weeks vacation and a retirement plan</p> <p>But I really enjoyed the $ 300/400 a month income&nbsp; all of us family and friends seemed to be together more nobody had anything but I believe we were happier then</p> <p>Money plays agaisnt family and friends</p> <p>Just a PS: when I started @ K/Rock concrete was $11 per yard&nbsp;&nbsp; When we were bought out by Cal Mat Concrete was $ 70.00 per Yard</p> <p>I hear now it is $ 95.00 plus p/yd.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204006 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204006 <p>Just a PS: when I started @ K/Rock concrete was $11 per yard&nbsp;&nbsp; When we were bought out by Cal Mat Concrete was $ 70.00 per Yard</p> <p>I hear now it is $ 95.00 plus p/yd.</p> <p>I have read some mean spirited columns, and opinion articles, over the years, but this column sinks to a new low for hostility against the people who struggle the most in this country. The biggest opponent to the minimum wage hike was the restaurant trade association and lobby group, The National Restaurant Association. I guess Marylee must be a charter member. </p> <p>The real facts regarding minimum wage are these. The best minimum wage in the history of the US (and a minimum wage was first established in 1938 at $.25 an hour) was in <a href="http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html">1968 at $1.65 per hour</a>. In real dollars, accounting for all the economic variations and fluctuations that paltry sum translates to $9.47 against today's dollar. America's minimum wage today is still well below what the wage's value was for a twenty year period between 1961 and 1981. The minimum wage still puts people at the poverty level in today's America. </p> <p>I am glad to see that the author of this column still has absolutely no capacity to factor in many of the other costs that may also have contibuted to a higher ticket at her favorite resaurant. Since oil just clocked in at a record of $102 per barrell and our gasoline prices are fast approaching $4 a gallon, transportation costs probably have had no influence these past few months in higher costs of goods. <a href="http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm">The Consumer Price Index</a> saw an increase of more than 22% for the last three month period in transporation costs, and  a three month  increase  of  over 43% for energy costs. When you take a twelve month average  transportation costs have increased by more than 9% while energy costs increased nearly 20% more than we were paying a year ago. Foods this year are also much higher than other goods for an index increase. </p> <p>Maybe you could ask some of these minimum wage earners to provide research for you, Marylee. I am sure they have some stories to tell you about their "flex" schedules and part-time status to dissalow them benefits. Maybe, you could also look into a government run health care plan that would remove the burden of health care costs from employers which could allow them to compete  better in this global economy. </p> <p> </p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204019 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204019 <p>I have read some mean spirited columns, and opinion articles, over the years, but this column sinks to a new low for hostility against the people who struggle the most in this country. The biggest opponent to the minimum wage hike was the restaurant trade association and lobby group, The National Restaurant Association. I guess Marylee must be a charter member. </p> <p>The real facts regarding minimum wage are these. The best minimum wage in the history of the US (and a minimum wage was first established in 1938 at $.25 an hour) was in <a href="http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html">1968 at $1.65 per hour</a>. In real dollars, accounting for all the economic variations and fluctuations that paltry sum translates to $9.47 against today's dollar. America's minimum wage today is still well below what the wage's value was for a twenty year period between 1961 and 1981. The minimum wage still puts people at the poverty level in today's America. </p> <p>I am glad to see that the author of this column still has absolutely no capacity to factor in many of the other costs that may also have contibuted to a higher ticket at her favorite resaurant. Since oil just clocked in at a record of $102 per barrell and our gasoline prices are fast approaching $4 a gallon, transportation costs probably have had no influence these past few months in higher costs of goods. <a href="http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm">The Consumer Price Index</a> saw an increase of more than 22% for the last three month period in transporation costs, and  a three month  increase  of  over 43% for energy costs. When you take a twelve month average  transportation costs have increased by more than 9% while energy costs increased nearly 20% more than we were paying a year ago. Foods this year are also much higher than other goods for an index increase. </p> <p>Maybe you could ask some of these minimum wage earners to provide research for you, Marylee. I am sure they have some stories to tell you about their "flex" schedules and part-time status to dissalow them benefits. Maybe, you could also look into a government run health care plan that would remove the burden of health care costs from employers which could allow them to compete  better in this global economy. </p> <p> </p> <p> So the logic displayed on here is that we shouldn't bother raising the minimum wage because the price of everything is going up, so in the end it doesn't help. The alternative being that the unfortunate people making min wage just wouldn't be able to afford what they could before, but I guess in your view that's their problem right?</p> <p> </p> <p>Every time raising minimum wage is brought up, the same people complain about the cost for business owners, but historically, it hasn't shown to have any effect over the long term. I just see it as the rich wanting to keep every stinkin penny they can. The minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation for a long time now. The min. wage is at it's lowest point in decades when you compare it to inflation. Mix that with the wealthy of this country having more than they have had in decades due to massive tax cuts that we can't afford, and you get the usual  complaining about how bad it would be to have the working poor of this country make a few extra bucks rather than have it sit in a bank somewhere. What next, are the working poor going to start wanting affordable health care? Geez, what's their problem? they should just get another full time job or two, right?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204021 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204021 <p> So the logic displayed on here is that we shouldn't bother raising the minimum wage because the price of everything is going up, so in the end it doesn't help. The alternative being that the unfortunate people making min wage just wouldn't be able to afford what they could before, but I guess in your view that's their problem right?</p> <p> </p> <p>Every time raising minimum wage is brought up, the same people complain about the cost for business owners, but historically, it hasn't shown to have any effect over the long term. I just see it as the rich wanting to keep every stinkin penny they can. The minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation for a long time now. The min. wage is at it's lowest point in decades when you compare it to inflation. Mix that with the wealthy of this country having more than they have had in decades due to massive tax cuts that we can't afford, and you get the usual  complaining about how bad it would be to have the working poor of this country make a few extra bucks rather than have it sit in a bank somewhere. What next, are the working poor going to start wanting affordable health care? Geez, what's their problem? they should just get another full time job or two, right?</p> <p>&nbsp;I challenge Marilee to go a whole month as if she only made $8 an hour for a full time 40 hours per week job. No going out to dinner, no extra trips in the car anywhere, no manicures or getting your haircut or her triple half caff carmel latte from starbucks, and you'd better make your martinis out of that cheap vodka in the big plastic bottle. Oh, and I hope she doesn't get sick sick. People on minimum wage don't have insurance or money to pay for a doctor. No cheating either. Call it a journalistic excercise. Hey you could even write about your experiences.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Don't worry I won't hold my breath that she'd do anything that daring.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204025 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204025 <p>&nbsp;I challenge Marilee to go a whole month as if she only made $8 an hour for a full time 40 hours per week job. No going out to dinner, no extra trips in the car anywhere, no manicures or getting your haircut or her triple half caff carmel latte from starbucks, and you'd better make your martinis out of that cheap vodka in the big plastic bottle. Oh, and I hope she doesn't get sick sick. People on minimum wage don't have insurance or money to pay for a doctor. No cheating either. Call it a journalistic excercise. Hey you could even write about your experiences.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Don't worry I won't hold my breath that she'd do anything that daring.</p> <p>It hurts business, but it is great for the worker.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204032 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204032 <p>It hurts business, but it is great for the worker.</p> <p>&nbsp;It is great for the worker, but keep in mind the worker is also a consumer, and there are a lot more workers than there are business owners.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204044 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204044 <p>&nbsp;It is great for the worker, but keep in mind the worker is also a consumer, and there are a lot more workers than there are business owners.</p> <p>When have employers ever said, &quot;Good idea, it's about time&quot; when minimum wages have gone up? But don't despair, there is a way out of this unfair financial burden before businesses go bankrupt:</p> <p>Call legislators and let them know that you back George's open border policy, amnesty and guest worker programs. That'll show those greedy minimum wage employees.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204048 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204048 <p>When have employers ever said, &quot;Good idea, it's about time&quot; when minimum wages have gone up? But don't despair, there is a way out of this unfair financial burden before businesses go bankrupt:</p> <p>Call legislators and let them know that you back George's open border policy, amnesty and guest worker programs. That'll show those greedy minimum wage employees.</p> <p>Does anyone on this blog actually earn minimum wage? If so, let's hear from you. Are you trying to support yourself and family on minimum wage, or is someone else supporting you?</p> <p>How old were you, the last time you actually worked for minimum wage? Let's hear from everyone. I'll start.</p> <p>I was 15 years old, the last time I had a minimum wage job. It was a part-time job too.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204057 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204057 <p>Does anyone on this blog actually earn minimum wage? If so, let's hear from you. Are you trying to support yourself and family on minimum wage, or is someone else supporting you?</p> <p>How old were you, the last time you actually worked for minimum wage? Let's hear from everyone. I'll start.</p> <p>I was 15 years old, the last time I had a minimum wage job. It was a part-time job too.</p> <p>I had a job where I made $6.00/hr (min wage wage was 4.25) and I thought I was on top of the world! I've never worked for minimum wage but had wages that were pretty close to it. As a matter of fact, when I was deployed I'm sure I made below minimum wage based on the hours worked (I love my job anyway!).</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204059 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204059 <p>I had a job where I made $6.00/hr (min wage wage was 4.25) and I thought I was on top of the world! I've never worked for minimum wage but had wages that were pretty close to it. As a matter of fact, when I was deployed I'm sure I made below minimum wage based on the hours worked (I love my job anyway!).</p> <p>Uhhhhhhhhhh............... no math genius here but I had a business wherein approx 70% of the costs were personnel costs. Since your lowest level employee getting the additional dollar (your example AQG) affects what all the others have to get to keep separation, comply with &quot;non-compaction&quot; agreements with the unions, etc. I don't know how you figure the $1.00 would only translate to 25 cents in the increased cost of a meal served.</p> <p>Please enlighten me.</p> <p>I'm no math genius</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204061 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204061 <p>Uhhhhhhhhhh............... no math genius here but I had a business wherein approx 70% of the costs were personnel costs. Since your lowest level employee getting the additional dollar (your example AQG) affects what all the others have to get to keep separation, comply with &quot;non-compaction&quot; agreements with the unions, etc. I don't know how you figure the $1.00 would only translate to 25 cents in the increased cost of a meal served.</p> <p>Please enlighten me.</p> <p>I'm no math genius</p> <p>p.s. I agree with you on the corn going to ethanol though</p> <p>Not smart</p> <p>Need to find other feed stocks and eventually get to the enzymatic processes that are <b>really </b>efficient in conversion on a BTU basis (input&lt;=&gt;output).</p> <p>Did you know there is a Chevron sub working with algae that produces some incredible weight (and acreage utilized) to output figures? I'll look it up and post it!</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204065 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204065 <p>p.s. I agree with you on the corn going to ethanol though</p> <p>Not smart</p> <p>Need to find other feed stocks and eventually get to the enzymatic processes that are <b>really </b>efficient in conversion on a BTU basis (input&lt;=&gt;output).</p> <p>Did you know there is a Chevron sub working with algae that produces some incredible weight (and acreage utilized) to output figures? I'll look it up and post it!</p> <p>My father-in-law is part of a business venture to cultivate&nbsp;a type&nbsp;of grass that grow 15&nbsp;ft. high in hopes that it can&nbsp;be part of the &quot;ethanol solution&quot;&nbsp;.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204067 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204067 <p>My father-in-law is part of a business venture to cultivate&nbsp;a type&nbsp;of grass that grow 15&nbsp;ft. high in hopes that it can&nbsp;be part of the &quot;ethanol solution&quot;&nbsp;.</p> <p>Chico,</p> <p>Check out this website if you want some cool info on algae oil.&nbsp; They are attaching algae farms to coal power plants to feed the algae cO2.&nbsp;</p> <p><span class="a"><font color="#008000" size="2">www.<b>oil</b>gae.com/</font></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204069 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204069 <p>Chico,</p> <p>Check out this website if you want some cool info on algae oil.&nbsp; They are attaching algae farms to coal power plants to feed the algae cO2.&nbsp;</p> <p><span class="a"><font color="#008000" size="2">www.<b>oil</b>gae.com/</font></span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Yes&nbsp; &quot;clear&quot; it up for me TomW</p> <p>That would be nice. A lesson in economics. Please don't just cut and paste some article though, as I have read many. Put it in your own words and give some simple examples.</p> <p>Maybe if its&nbsp; &quot;simple&quot; enough I can comprehend it!</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204071 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204071 <p>Yes&nbsp; &quot;clear&quot; it up for me TomW</p> <p>That would be nice. A lesson in economics. Please don't just cut and paste some article though, as I have read many. Put it in your own words and give some simple examples.</p> <p>Maybe if its&nbsp; &quot;simple&quot; enough I can comprehend it!</p> <p>I will look at it truth. I saw an interesting article in Diesel World Magazine. I'll post the link if I can find it.</p> <p>I agree with AQG, corn is bad idea. Conversion ratio is bad deal. Doesn't mean the whole idea of bio-diesel is necessarily bad.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204073 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204073 <p>I will look at it truth. I saw an interesting article in Diesel World Magazine. I'll post the link if I can find it.</p> <p>I agree with AQG, corn is bad idea. Conversion ratio is bad deal. Doesn't mean the whole idea of bio-diesel is necessarily bad.</p> <p>Maybe we can pay minimum wage to the Algae to Diesel employees and <b>really</b> make a killing! <img id="smilie_13" title="Gut Laugh!" style="cursor: hand" alt=":gutlaugh:" src="http://www.nopc.info/forum/images/smilies/gutlaugh.gif" unselectable="on" editorid="vB_Editor_001" /></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204074 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204074 <p>Maybe we can pay minimum wage to the Algae to Diesel employees and <b>really</b> make a killing! <img id="smilie_13" title="Gut Laugh!" style="cursor: hand" alt=":gutlaugh:" src="http://www.nopc.info/forum/images/smilies/gutlaugh.gif" unselectable="on" editorid="vB_Editor_001" /></p> <p>Why would Marylee want to live for a month on a wage meant for a teenager? Seriously, if you are an adult with a family to feed, you really need to examine your life a little better to try and figure how you got to that position. When I was in college, freshly married with a small baby, I worked two jobs at minimum wage. I didn't expect to make more, I just worked harder to make more. This went on until I got a real 'grown-up' job.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204076 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204076 <p>Why would Marylee want to live for a month on a wage meant for a teenager? Seriously, if you are an adult with a family to feed, you really need to examine your life a little better to try and figure how you got to that position. When I was in college, freshly married with a small baby, I worked two jobs at minimum wage. I didn't expect to make more, I just worked harder to make more. This went on until I got a real 'grown-up' job.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I would love to read that article.&nbsp; I will also try to look for it, do you know what the title was?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204077 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204077 <p>I would love to read that article.&nbsp; I will also try to look for it, do you know what the title was?</p> <p><i><b>Chico, there's no such thing as &quot;liberal economics&quot; or &quot;conservative economics</b></i></p> <p>Tell it to Paul Krugman or Thomas Friedman</p> <p>When some&nbsp; &quot;economists&quot; bleed their economic&nbsp; &quot;theories&quot; over into the political policy realm and utilize their&nbsp; &quot;theories&quot; to support same there most certainly is&nbsp;<strong><em>&quot;liberal economics&quot; or &quot;conservative economics!</em></strong></p> <p>Of course, if you understood <b>either </b>politics <b>or </b>economics you'd know that!</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204079 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204079 <p><i><b>Chico, there's no such thing as &quot;liberal economics&quot; or &quot;conservative economics</b></i></p> <p>Tell it to Paul Krugman or Thomas Friedman</p> <p>When some&nbsp; &quot;economists&quot; bleed their economic&nbsp; &quot;theories&quot; over into the political policy realm and utilize their&nbsp; &quot;theories&quot; to support same there most certainly is&nbsp;<strong><em>&quot;liberal economics&quot; or &quot;conservative economics!</em></strong></p> <p>Of course, if you understood <b>either </b>politics <b>or </b>economics you'd know that!</p> <p>Poor Marilee. She makes at least 3 times the minimum wage, but we should feel sorry for her cuz she had to spend two extra bucks at her last dine out. It costs 700 bucks a month to live in a small apartment, another few hundred bucks for utilities, car insurance costs, gas will be 4 bucks a gallon by summer, yet you want these people to live on 1200 bucks a month take home. The biggest night out for a McDonald's worker's kid is to eat at McDonald's.</p> <p>I can hear it now, &quot;Well if they want to make more money, they shouldn't work there.&quot; Okay then, who should? Robots?</p> <p>Maybe y'all are down with sweatshops too.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204104 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204104 <p>Poor Marilee. She makes at least 3 times the minimum wage, but we should feel sorry for her cuz she had to spend two extra bucks at her last dine out. It costs 700 bucks a month to live in a small apartment, another few hundred bucks for utilities, car insurance costs, gas will be 4 bucks a gallon by summer, yet you want these people to live on 1200 bucks a month take home. The biggest night out for a McDonald's worker's kid is to eat at McDonald's.</p> <p>I can hear it now, &quot;Well if they want to make more money, they shouldn't work there.&quot; Okay then, who should? Robots?</p> <p>Maybe y'all are down with sweatshops too.</p> <p>It's funny how conservative economics means conservative wages for the poor, but outrageous golden parachutes for the rich. A fast food worker should only make 5 bucks an hour, but a CEO who runs a corporation into the ground gets punished by a 5 million dollar severance package.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204107 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204107 <p>It's funny how conservative economics means conservative wages for the poor, but outrageous golden parachutes for the rich. A fast food worker should only make 5 bucks an hour, but a CEO who runs a corporation into the ground gets punished by a 5 million dollar severance package.</p> <p>??  Prices have been skyrocketing on consumer items for the last three years...please explain to me how a recent minimum wage hike is to blame.  That's a joke.  And, frankly, if you can't handle the extra dollar for eating out in your favorite restaurant, then let me be the first to show you to your kitchen.  Where is your indignation at the cost of gas to fill your car?  What about milk hitting all time highs?  Where were you when government officials gave themselves raises? Did you turn down your last raise since it meant the Californian was going to be shelling out a bit more money?  As a concerned consumer, you might've done your part to avoid the rising costs that would be passed along to the readers and subscribers and advertisers. </p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204112 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204112 <p>??  Prices have been skyrocketing on consumer items for the last three years...please explain to me how a recent minimum wage hike is to blame.  That's a joke.  And, frankly, if you can't handle the extra dollar for eating out in your favorite restaurant, then let me be the first to show you to your kitchen.  Where is your indignation at the cost of gas to fill your car?  What about milk hitting all time highs?  Where were you when government officials gave themselves raises? Did you turn down your last raise since it meant the Californian was going to be shelling out a bit more money?  As a concerned consumer, you might've done your part to avoid the rising costs that would be passed along to the readers and subscribers and advertisers. </p> <p>Had dinner at a restaurant last night where the salad used to be included with the meal.&nbsp; I had to pay 99 cents extra to have it as one of my sides.&nbsp; I filled my truck up last week, it cost $96.30.&nbsp;&nbsp;Things&nbsp;won't get any better either.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204115 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204115 <p>Had dinner at a restaurant last night where the salad used to be included with the meal.&nbsp; I had to pay 99 cents extra to have it as one of my sides.&nbsp; I filled my truck up last week, it cost $96.30.&nbsp;&nbsp;Things&nbsp;won't get any better either.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;<span style="color: #993300">Maybe y'all are down with sweatshops too. </span></p> <p>We are all down with sweatshops on some level if we shop at places like Wal-Mart or Harry&amp;Barry's (which I do). American-style Capitalism is all bout making as much as you can on as little as you can (i.e. Huge profits via low wages). It comes to a point where Americans just have to recognize the game and play it.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204121 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204121 <p>&nbsp;<span style="color: #993300">Maybe y'all are down with sweatshops too. </span></p> <p>We are all down with sweatshops on some level if we shop at places like Wal-Mart or Harry&amp;Barry's (which I do). American-style Capitalism is all bout making as much as you can on as little as you can (i.e. Huge profits via low wages). It comes to a point where Americans just have to recognize the game and play it.</p> <p>&nbsp;Since someone mentioned gas prices, I'll take this opportunity to bitch about how we now have to pay nearly $4 a gallon and these gas stations can't even afford to keep those window washing/squeegee wands around and filled up with at least water. There's a law on the books about gas stations required to have clean restrooms, I say we make them have window washers and free air too. It's the least they could do with all the extra billions of dollars we are paying the CEO's and shareholders. They're lucky we don't require they hire people to fill our tanks for us like in Oregon. All gas stations in Oregon are full serve only.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204138 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204138 <p>&nbsp;Since someone mentioned gas prices, I'll take this opportunity to bitch about how we now have to pay nearly $4 a gallon and these gas stations can't even afford to keep those window washing/squeegee wands around and filled up with at least water. There's a law on the books about gas stations required to have clean restrooms, I say we make them have window washers and free air too. It's the least they could do with all the extra billions of dollars we are paying the CEO's and shareholders. They're lucky we don't require they hire people to fill our tanks for us like in Oregon. All gas stations in Oregon are full serve only.</p> <p>Tonyh, I'll play. I had an interview with a national chain bookseller here in town to supplement my very modest internet business two years ago. I had  executive management experience , oversaw purchasing, distribution  and in-store operations for a company which did over a billion dollars a year in sales each year during the 1990s and into this decade. The company was liquidated in 2006, the same year I had this interview. The booksellers offered me a job , but never told me what the pay would be until my first and last day on the job. The pay was $7.50 an hour. You receive no vacation for the first twelve months and no health benefits unless you reach a minimum weekly hourly average over a specified period of time. The job was ultimately a floater position where you are on call if some other employee calls in sick, or if business traffic might require an extra body. I left after one day. </p> <p>When I first moved back to town I took a job a a grocery store chain for about seven months. This company did give you benefits after a three month waiting period and when you averaged over 30 hours a week. It paid a little more than a buck over minimum wage. I left that job when they told me during my review that because I had been hired at such a high starting rate I would not see a raise for at least another year.</p> <p>I talk to a lot of people at various locations around town where people in former occupations and industries one day were cashed out and now work at low level jobs, many at more than one to make ends meet. I am lucky in that I do have some investments and a lovely spouse who makes a decent wage at a good company, but the facts are the minimum wage is becoming the prevailing wage for too many people in this country.  </p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204175 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204175 <p>Tonyh, I'll play. I had an interview with a national chain bookseller here in town to supplement my very modest internet business two years ago. I had  executive management experience , oversaw purchasing, distribution  and in-store operations for a company which did over a billion dollars a year in sales each year during the 1990s and into this decade. The company was liquidated in 2006, the same year I had this interview. The booksellers offered me a job , but never told me what the pay would be until my first and last day on the job. The pay was $7.50 an hour. You receive no vacation for the first twelve months and no health benefits unless you reach a minimum weekly hourly average over a specified period of time. The job was ultimately a floater position where you are on call if some other employee calls in sick, or if business traffic might require an extra body. I left after one day. </p> <p>When I first moved back to town I took a job a a grocery store chain for about seven months. This company did give you benefits after a three month waiting period and when you averaged over 30 hours a week. It paid a little more than a buck over minimum wage. I left that job when they told me during my review that because I had been hired at such a high starting rate I would not see a raise for at least another year.</p> <p>I talk to a lot of people at various locations around town where people in former occupations and industries one day were cashed out and now work at low level jobs, many at more than one to make ends meet. I am lucky in that I do have some investments and a lovely spouse who makes a decent wage at a good company, but the facts are the minimum wage is becoming the prevailing wage for too many people in this country.  </p> <p>Actually, I have an extra little question for MaryLee: Can you go back and ask those business owners how their sales are year over year?  With inflation up, I wouldn't be surprised if business was off.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204185 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204185 <p>Actually, I have an extra little question for MaryLee: Can you go back and ask those business owners how their sales are year over year?  With inflation up, I wouldn't be surprised if business was off.</p> <p>Ya' that's what I thought....................................crickets chirping...................Nobody on here is actually making minimum wage and trying to support a family.</p> <p>Nobody on here can even remember when they actually MADE minimum wage.........What a bunch of BLOWHARDS!!!</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204198 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204198 <p>Ya' that's what I thought....................................crickets chirping...................Nobody on here is actually making minimum wage and trying to support a family.</p> <p>Nobody on here can even remember when they actually MADE minimum wage.........What a bunch of BLOWHARDS!!!</p> <p><i>Yup, every time we pass the minimum wage, all the businesses say they won't survive.&nbsp;</i></p> <p>I heard that once from a guy who owned a deli. He and his wife&nbsp;each drove a Lexus.</p> <p>Victims.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204199 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204199 <p><i>Yup, every time we pass the minimum wage, all the businesses say they won't survive.&nbsp;</i></p> <p>I heard that once from a guy who owned a deli. He and his wife&nbsp;each drove a Lexus.</p> <p>Victims.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>And that's the classic attitude of someone who has no clue what it's like to put your entire financial livelihood on the line to be self employed.</p> <p>It sounds like their Deli gamble paid off for them.........at that point in time.&nbsp; How do you know that they weren't living in the back room a couple of years later, when business fell off?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204209 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204209 <p>And that's the classic attitude of someone who has no clue what it's like to put your entire financial livelihood on the line to be self employed.</p> <p>It sounds like their Deli gamble paid off for them.........at that point in time.&nbsp; How do you know that they weren't living in the back room a couple of years later, when business fell off?</p> <p><span style="font-size: small;">I &quot;made&quot; minimum wage at &quot;part time&quot; job when my son was alive~ caring for him.It was no picnic. I'll check back tomorrow for your point.</span></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204210 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204210 <p><span style="font-size: small;">I &quot;made&quot; minimum wage at &quot;part time&quot; job when my son was alive~ caring for him.It was no picnic. I'll check back tomorrow for your point.</span></p> <p>Tony, my first minimum wage job was working as a busboy at a country club.&nbsp; My lowest paying was a scholarship working in a summer rep theater.&nbsp; I pulled 700 a month for 70 hours a week of work.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204211 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204211 <p>Tony, my first minimum wage job was working as a busboy at a country club.&nbsp; My lowest paying was a scholarship working in a summer rep theater.&nbsp; I pulled 700 a month for 70 hours a week of work.</p> <p>Lemmy get this straight. You were being paid to take care of your Son. Do I understand that right? If I'm understanding right, How'd that work? And, were you the primary bread winner?</p> <p>My point is that, as of now, this blog has been viewed 101 times and you're the first person to answer my question who, as an adult, worked for minimum wage. It still wasn't a full time job though. I asked my questions almost 9 hours ago.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204214 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204214 <p>Lemmy get this straight. You were being paid to take care of your Son. Do I understand that right? If I'm understanding right, How'd that work? And, were you the primary bread winner?</p> <p>My point is that, as of now, this blog has been viewed 101 times and you're the first person to answer my question who, as an adult, worked for minimum wage. It still wasn't a full time job though. I asked my questions almost 9 hours ago.</p> <p>Tony, I am self-employed so I guess whatever I think is the classic attitude of a small business person.&nbsp; By the way, I'm not sure if you caught it, but this hike also raised the minimum wage for people who provide their own tools to 16/hr.&nbsp; That bumps my hourly charge as well.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204215 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204215 <p>Tony, I am self-employed so I guess whatever I think is the classic attitude of a small business person.&nbsp; By the way, I'm not sure if you caught it, but this hike also raised the minimum wage for people who provide their own tools to 16/hr.&nbsp; That bumps my hourly charge as well.</p> <p>Gee, Tony, didn't realize we were all on a schedule.&nbsp; I'll be posting some questions for you tomorrow.&nbsp; I'll expect a prompt reply.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204216 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204216 <p>Gee, Tony, didn't realize we were all on a schedule.&nbsp; I'll be posting some questions for you tomorrow.&nbsp; I'll expect a prompt reply.</p> <p>&quot;Tony, my first minimum wage job was working as a busboy at a country club.&quot; ......and you were how old? Part-time of full-time? Were you living with Mom, or paying your own bills?</p> <p>&quot;My lowest paying was a scholarship working in a summer rep theater.&quot; I have no clue what this means..............</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204219 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204219 <p>&quot;Tony, my first minimum wage job was working as a busboy at a country club.&quot; ......and you were how old? Part-time of full-time? Were you living with Mom, or paying your own bills?</p> <p>&quot;My lowest paying was a scholarship working in a summer rep theater.&quot; I have no clue what this means..............</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>You seem to have plenty of time to profess the stupidity of all who disagree with you. I figured you'd also have plenty of time to humor me here.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204220 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204220 <p>You seem to have plenty of time to profess the stupidity of all who disagree with you. I figured you'd also have plenty of time to humor me here.</p> <p>Tom, does YOUR version of self employment require a business license? How many&nbsp;employees (besides yourself ) does your business have?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204221 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204221 <p>Tom, does YOUR version of self employment require a business license? How many&nbsp;employees (besides yourself ) does your business have?</p> <p>Tony, I wasn't here all day.&nbsp; Second, sorry if you feel like you felt like I was picking on you.&nbsp; I get tired of people who collect a couple of anecdotes and try to pretend it's data.</p> <p>As for the rest of it, let's just skip all the details where I answer your questions and you talk about how much more experience you have or how your little brush with experience is so much more relevant than the experience I have and get to the end of your drama show and you can just storm off now because no one understands just how much in depth unchallengable knowledge of the subject matter you and only you possess.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204228 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204228 <p>Tony, I wasn't here all day.&nbsp; Second, sorry if you feel like you felt like I was picking on you.&nbsp; I get tired of people who collect a couple of anecdotes and try to pretend it's data.</p> <p>As for the rest of it, let's just skip all the details where I answer your questions and you talk about how much more experience you have or how your little brush with experience is so much more relevant than the experience I have and get to the end of your drama show and you can just storm off now because no one understands just how much in depth unchallengable knowledge of the subject matter you and only you possess.</p> <p>That's perfect.&nbsp; Thanks.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204232 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204232 <p>That's perfect.&nbsp; Thanks.</p> <p>I guess gas is headed to $4 a gallon because of the minimum-wage hike. And prices on corn, wheat, and other crops are skyrocketing for the same reason (people earning minimum wage harvest those crops, right?). And health care costs are out of control for the same reason (because doctors earn minimum wage too, right?). <br /> <br /> Yup. Makes total and perfect sense, Ms. Shrider.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204250 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204250 <p>I guess gas is headed to $4 a gallon because of the minimum-wage hike. And prices on corn, wheat, and other crops are skyrocketing for the same reason (people earning minimum wage harvest those crops, right?). And health care costs are out of control for the same reason (because doctors earn minimum wage too, right?). <br /> <br /> Yup. Makes total and perfect sense, Ms. Shrider.</p> <p>The only way to offset wage increase is to also increase productivity. Of courst gasoling prices heading to $4 a gallon isn't wage related, I'll  take a chance and say that we all agree on that.</p> <p>U.S. factory produced goods will go up. Services will go up a lot. The deal is that when minimum wage is increased, all pay and wages go up too. Yes, the saleries of the people who work for the HPO or PPO will go up and the salery of your Doctor will go up too. It pushes the cost of everything up, so where's the benefit to the minimum wage earner (if there are any who aren't teenagers living with Mom & Dad)?</p> <p>Before Tom decided to roll over and play dead, I was trying to show him what I ain't seeing. I'm not seeing this described population of Americans trying to raise and support a family on minimum wage. I'm not.</p> <p>Around where I live, even the local High School Football players who work as day labor in the Summer make at least a dollar more than minimum wage. The adult day laborers tend to make at least a couple of bucks more than that. I used this as an example because it's the lowest paying job that I could ask around about on short notice.</p> <p>The local McDonald's pays minimum wage for the first 90 days of employment. Then, you either get a pay raise, of fired for being a no load.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204262 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204262 <p>The only way to offset wage increase is to also increase productivity. Of courst gasoling prices heading to $4 a gallon isn't wage related, I'll  take a chance and say that we all agree on that.</p> <p>U.S. factory produced goods will go up. Services will go up a lot. The deal is that when minimum wage is increased, all pay and wages go up too. Yes, the saleries of the people who work for the HPO or PPO will go up and the salery of your Doctor will go up too. It pushes the cost of everything up, so where's the benefit to the minimum wage earner (if there are any who aren't teenagers living with Mom & Dad)?</p> <p>Before Tom decided to roll over and play dead, I was trying to show him what I ain't seeing. I'm not seeing this described population of Americans trying to raise and support a family on minimum wage. I'm not.</p> <p>Around where I live, even the local High School Football players who work as day labor in the Summer make at least a dollar more than minimum wage. The adult day laborers tend to make at least a couple of bucks more than that. I used this as an example because it's the lowest paying job that I could ask around about on short notice.</p> <p>The local McDonald's pays minimum wage for the first 90 days of employment. Then, you either get a pay raise, of fired for being a no load.</p> <p>Every time this topic comes up people deny the price of goods goes up when minimum wages go up, or any wage goes up.&nbsp; I'm always amazed that some believe that it doesn't happen.&nbsp; It might not be as noticible with large companies but with mom and pops for instance, if they have to pay that teenager more money they WILL increase the price of their goods.&nbsp; Probably not by a large amount, but it will increase.&nbsp; For those who don't increase their prices, they will cut back on hours.&nbsp; But somewhere, somehow, they will pass the cost of that wage increase on to the consumer</p> <p>When the county was forced to raise pay recently, they immediately began to cut programs, training, consolidated teams, and put a lid on hiring.&nbsp; When jobs were vacated they weren't always filled again.&nbsp; And that benefits potential workers in what way?</p> <p>In the early 60's we were paying 25 cents for a loaf of bread and my ex was making $50 a week.&nbsp; You could buy a new Volkswagon for $1200.&nbsp; What do we pay now?&nbsp; Do you believe that those increases didn't go hand in hand?</p> <p>How naive can people be to&nbsp;think that companies are going to just absorb higher wages and take it out of <i>their</i> bottom line?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204270 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204270 <p>Every time this topic comes up people deny the price of goods goes up when minimum wages go up, or any wage goes up.&nbsp; I'm always amazed that some believe that it doesn't happen.&nbsp; It might not be as noticible with large companies but with mom and pops for instance, if they have to pay that teenager more money they WILL increase the price of their goods.&nbsp; Probably not by a large amount, but it will increase.&nbsp; For those who don't increase their prices, they will cut back on hours.&nbsp; But somewhere, somehow, they will pass the cost of that wage increase on to the consumer</p> <p>When the county was forced to raise pay recently, they immediately began to cut programs, training, consolidated teams, and put a lid on hiring.&nbsp; When jobs were vacated they weren't always filled again.&nbsp; And that benefits potential workers in what way?</p> <p>In the early 60's we were paying 25 cents for a loaf of bread and my ex was making $50 a week.&nbsp; You could buy a new Volkswagon for $1200.&nbsp; What do we pay now?&nbsp; Do you believe that those increases didn't go hand in hand?</p> <p>How naive can people be to&nbsp;think that companies are going to just absorb higher wages and take it out of <i>their</i> bottom line?</p> <p>I support an honest wage for a honest day's work. Employers must pay their employees a livable wage!</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204286 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204286 <p>I support an honest wage for a honest day's work. Employers must pay their employees a livable wage!</p> <p>Tony, it's easily found on the Internet.&nbsp; &quot;Rep&quot; is short for &quot;repertory.&quot;</p> <p>.</p> <p>The increase in the minimum wage is a good thing.&nbsp; And MaryLee wants to pretend the increase in prices we've seen have nothing to do with increased costs for fuel, corn, wheat, etc?&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204292 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204292 <p>Tony, it's easily found on the Internet.&nbsp; &quot;Rep&quot; is short for &quot;repertory.&quot;</p> <p>.</p> <p>The increase in the minimum wage is a good thing.&nbsp; And MaryLee wants to pretend the increase in prices we've seen have nothing to do with increased costs for fuel, corn, wheat, etc?&nbsp;</p> <p>Price inflation has lots of causes including fuel costs, material costs, the falling dollar.  Do you think prices woud be lower today if we cut the minimum wage?</p> <p>To address the issue of who makes the minimum wage, about a quarter of the people who make minimum wage are teenagers and over 50% are over 25.</p> <p>Further, studies show that increasing the minimum wage actually increase employment across the economy because forcing money to the bottom of the economy whick increases churn.  In a macro sense, the economy is hlped by passing money through as many hands as possibe before it returns to the government where it was made.</p> <p>Tony, your question about anyone here knowing anyone raising someone raising a family on the minimum wage is silly.  I don't know anyone who lives in Alabama, but I also know that people actually live there.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204325 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204325 <p>Price inflation has lots of causes including fuel costs, material costs, the falling dollar.  Do you think prices woud be lower today if we cut the minimum wage?</p> <p>To address the issue of who makes the minimum wage, about a quarter of the people who make minimum wage are teenagers and over 50% are over 25.</p> <p>Further, studies show that increasing the minimum wage actually increase employment across the economy because forcing money to the bottom of the economy whick increases churn.  In a macro sense, the economy is hlped by passing money through as many hands as possibe before it returns to the government where it was made.</p> <p>Tony, your question about anyone here knowing anyone raising someone raising a family on the minimum wage is silly.  I don't know anyone who lives in Alabama, but I also know that people actually live there.</p> <p><span style="font-size: small;">Tony~ I was paid for 20 hours a week by the agency of Adult Protective Services as a in home health care aid. My son Kelsey took 24/7 care,he could not sit,stand,crawl,walk,grasp or articulate~ in short he needed help to do virtually everything. I was a single parent,no child support,he received $500 or so a month SSI,and I was really lucky as my mother had bought a house. On that income I saved for my property taxes,paid my utilities,we ate, and that was about it. I can make a buck go far,but after 15 years of living that close to the bone,as it were,I can tell you optimism is hard to dig up. </span></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204344 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204344 <p><span style="font-size: small;">Tony~ I was paid for 20 hours a week by the agency of Adult Protective Services as a in home health care aid. My son Kelsey took 24/7 care,he could not sit,stand,crawl,walk,grasp or articulate~ in short he needed help to do virtually everything. I was a single parent,no child support,he received $500 or so a month SSI,and I was really lucky as my mother had bought a house. On that income I saved for my property taxes,paid my utilities,we ate, and that was about it. I can make a buck go far,but after 15 years of living that close to the bone,as it were,I can tell you optimism is hard to dig up. </span></p> <p><b>Tony</b>, people who raise a family on minimum wage typically can't afford computers and internet access.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204347 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204347 <p><b>Tony</b>, people who raise a family on minimum wage typically can't afford computers and internet access.</p> <p>No one addreessed the part about rising wages eating into the bottom line of a business.&nbsp; Who is going to absorb that?</p> <p>Or did I miss that part?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204357 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204357 <p>No one addreessed the part about rising wages eating into the bottom line of a business.&nbsp; Who is going to absorb that?</p> <p>Or did I miss that part?</p> <p>Sage,</p> <p>You wrote exactly what I was thinking about Taco Bell's new 79 cent  menu. The bean and cheese burritos did increase  about  seven cents, but that  is not going to stop me from going thru the drive thru when I am in a hurry.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204358 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204358 <p>Sage,</p> <p>You wrote exactly what I was thinking about Taco Bell's new 79 cent  menu. The bean and cheese burritos did increase  about  seven cents, but that  is not going to stop me from going thru the drive thru when I am in a hurry.</p> <p><i>People who raise a family on minimum wage typically can't afford computers and internet access.</i></p> <p>Which makes it a shame they won't read this: <b>If your making minimum wage, now is not the time to raise a family.</b></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204360 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204360 <p><i>People who raise a family on minimum wage typically can't afford computers and internet access.</i></p> <p>Which makes it a shame they won't read this: <b>If your making minimum wage, now is not the time to raise a family.</b></p> <p>The facts argue that increased productivity has not increased wages at all. Here is a <a href="http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20050421">snap shot from the Economic Policy Institute.</a> I guess my earlier link that showed the minimum wage depreciating against the overall economy since 1981didn't make much impact on people who think raising the bottom wages hurts the economy and businesses employing these workers. </p> <p> </p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204372 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204372 <p>The facts argue that increased productivity has not increased wages at all. Here is a <a href="http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20050421">snap shot from the Economic Policy Institute.</a> I guess my earlier link that showed the minimum wage depreciating against the overall economy since 1981didn't make much impact on people who think raising the bottom wages hurts the economy and businesses employing these workers. </p> <p> </p> <p>With all due respect to the charts and graphs let me dumb this down a bit.&nbsp; I own a small mom and pop grocery store where I employ 2 people part time.&nbsp; Bear in mind that these stores aren't big profit business.&nbsp; If the gov't comes along and tells me that I must pay each of these employees an extra dollar per hour, also bearing in mind that my overhead has not gone down, nor has my business increased, are you saying that my economy is going to be&nbsp;benefitted by this?</p> <p>Or are you saying that I must take more money out of my pocket to pay for this extra cost in wages paid?&nbsp; You do realize that I will have less money (profit) to support my own family don't you?&nbsp; When that happens I can do one of two things..maybe both.&nbsp; I can cut the hours of my employees or I can raise the price of goods to my customers.</p> <p>Sales&nbsp;- overhead&nbsp;= profit.&nbsp; Increase overhead and profit decreases.</p> <p>I'm sorry, I'm not an economist or a deep thinker here but in my simple math a minus is a minus and all the charts and graphs won't change that.&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204379 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204379 <p>With all due respect to the charts and graphs let me dumb this down a bit.&nbsp; I own a small mom and pop grocery store where I employ 2 people part time.&nbsp; Bear in mind that these stores aren't big profit business.&nbsp; If the gov't comes along and tells me that I must pay each of these employees an extra dollar per hour, also bearing in mind that my overhead has not gone down, nor has my business increased, are you saying that my economy is going to be&nbsp;benefitted by this?</p> <p>Or are you saying that I must take more money out of my pocket to pay for this extra cost in wages paid?&nbsp; You do realize that I will have less money (profit) to support my own family don't you?&nbsp; When that happens I can do one of two things..maybe both.&nbsp; I can cut the hours of my employees or I can raise the price of goods to my customers.</p> <p>Sales&nbsp;- overhead&nbsp;= profit.&nbsp; Increase overhead and profit decreases.</p> <p>I'm sorry, I'm not an economist or a deep thinker here but in my simple math a minus is a minus and all the charts and graphs won't change that.&nbsp;</p> <p><i><strong>If your making minimum wage, now is not the time to raise a family.</strong></i></p> <p>yup.</p> <p>It seems to me that the best thing that people working minimum wage can do to improve their station is not to rely upon the government to increase minimum wage but rather to take advantage of training and educational opportunities that improve their ability to attain higher paying work.&nbsp; In Kern, we have an extremely inexpensive community college that offers classes all day and in the evenings in addition to the multiple online programs.&nbsp; Federal school loans are available to just about anyone; low percentage rates and repayment doesn't typically start until a year after the classes are completed.&nbsp; Learn a trade, get a degree, and move into a position that requires specialized knowledge and compensates accordingly.</p> <p>Ironically, the move toward increased education would likely cause an increase in lower wages anyway.&nbsp; Wages are largely&nbsp;based upon supply and demand - if Walmart or Taco Bell or wherever offers minimum wage with no benefits, it's b/c they know that they have a huge unskilled workforce willing to work for that paltry amount.&nbsp; If less workers were interested in working at those places, then these companies would have a smaller labor pool to draw their workers from, forcing them to improve their compensation to attract from the limited availability of talent.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204381 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204381 <p><i><strong>If your making minimum wage, now is not the time to raise a family.</strong></i></p> <p>yup.</p> <p>It seems to me that the best thing that people working minimum wage can do to improve their station is not to rely upon the government to increase minimum wage but rather to take advantage of training and educational opportunities that improve their ability to attain higher paying work.&nbsp; In Kern, we have an extremely inexpensive community college that offers classes all day and in the evenings in addition to the multiple online programs.&nbsp; Federal school loans are available to just about anyone; low percentage rates and repayment doesn't typically start until a year after the classes are completed.&nbsp; Learn a trade, get a degree, and move into a position that requires specialized knowledge and compensates accordingly.</p> <p>Ironically, the move toward increased education would likely cause an increase in lower wages anyway.&nbsp; Wages are largely&nbsp;based upon supply and demand - if Walmart or Taco Bell or wherever offers minimum wage with no benefits, it's b/c they know that they have a huge unskilled workforce willing to work for that paltry amount.&nbsp; If less workers were interested in working at those places, then these companies would have a smaller labor pool to draw their workers from, forcing them to improve their compensation to attract from the limited availability of talent.</p> <p><b>If your making minimum wage, now is not the time to raise a family.</b></p> <p><b><span style="font-size: small;">T</span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;">rue,but to raise a point,when we began our family were self employed.&nbsp; After our son was born the economic stress,the stress of having a child like mine ended the marriage. At the time child care was impossible to find,much less afford to attend any type of school or training program.Not to mention time:our day was none stop,from food,to therapy to helping in school..to the 3am check to see if all is well. Finding an employer so understanding to that, would have been a neat trick..what I am saying I suppose is that not all minimum wage earners start out like that,not all of them can pull themselves up so easily.How being dirt poor drags one down is very hard to understand unless one has been there.</span></b></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204397 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204397 <p><b>If your making minimum wage, now is not the time to raise a family.</b></p> <p><b><span style="font-size: small;">T</span></b><b><span style="font-size: small;">rue,but to raise a point,when we began our family were self employed.&nbsp; After our son was born the economic stress,the stress of having a child like mine ended the marriage. At the time child care was impossible to find,much less afford to attend any type of school or training program.Not to mention time:our day was none stop,from food,to therapy to helping in school..to the 3am check to see if all is well. Finding an employer so understanding to that, would have been a neat trick..what I am saying I suppose is that not all minimum wage earners start out like that,not all of them can pull themselves up so easily.How being dirt poor drags one down is very hard to understand unless one has been there.</span></b></p> <p>For Robb and FreeCognate, say you have a family, lose your job and you take a minimum wage job to keep some money coming in.  Is that also not the time to raise a family?</p> <p>BTW, FreeCognate, you're dangerously close in that last bit to advocating that they die and decrease the surplus population.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204399 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204399 <p>For Robb and FreeCognate, say you have a family, lose your job and you take a minimum wage job to keep some money coming in.  Is that also not the time to raise a family?</p> <p>BTW, FreeCognate, you're dangerously close in that last bit to advocating that they die and decrease the surplus population.</p> <p>Nancy, let's take the supermarket example.&nbsp; Now you have a market in a town where everyone is making slightly more money.&nbsp; Maybe they come in and buy a few of your higher margin goods or some extra beer or soda or cookies.&nbsp; You're right that the immediate impact of the new wage may sting.&nbsp; A buck an hour per full time employee for 2 employees will end up costing the employer about 500 dollars a month.&nbsp; You might raise your prices a bit and cut out some of the people who would otherwise have bought more; you can cut employee hours and save a bit in the short term and either make it up by doing more work yourself or let the service and/or cleanliness of the store slide decreasing the value of your product; or you can bite the bullet for a month or two while that money works it's way through the economy and boosts business.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204400 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204400 <p>Nancy, let's take the supermarket example.&nbsp; Now you have a market in a town where everyone is making slightly more money.&nbsp; Maybe they come in and buy a few of your higher margin goods or some extra beer or soda or cookies.&nbsp; You're right that the immediate impact of the new wage may sting.&nbsp; A buck an hour per full time employee for 2 employees will end up costing the employer about 500 dollars a month.&nbsp; You might raise your prices a bit and cut out some of the people who would otherwise have bought more; you can cut employee hours and save a bit in the short term and either make it up by doing more work yourself or let the service and/or cleanliness of the store slide decreasing the value of your product; or you can bite the bullet for a month or two while that money works it's way through the economy and boosts business.</p> <p>I'm all for helping out a family that has fallen on hard times. But for &quot;John&quot; and &quot;Mary&quot; that are working for minimum wage and are thinking about reproducing, if they are thinking at all while they're making whoopie like crazed weasels: <b>now is not the time to raise a family.</b> In the Willis Utopia, there would be no reproducing without a license which would be handed out after the completion of Parenting 101. A prerequisite would be proof that your child would not have to live on a parent's minimum wage.&nbsp;</p> <p>Hope that clears things up.<br /> &nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204402 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204402 <p>I'm all for helping out a family that has fallen on hard times. But for &quot;John&quot; and &quot;Mary&quot; that are working for minimum wage and are thinking about reproducing, if they are thinking at all while they're making whoopie like crazed weasels: <b>now is not the time to raise a family.</b> In the Willis Utopia, there would be no reproducing without a license which would be handed out after the completion of Parenting 101. A prerequisite would be proof that your child would not have to live on a parent's minimum wage.&nbsp;</p> <p>Hope that clears things up.<br /> &nbsp;</p> <p>Sage, thanks for saying what I was trying to.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204403 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204403 <p>Sage, thanks for saying what I was trying to.</p> <p><span style="font-size: small;">Thank you Tom,for the back up. I agree Robb about the concept,but I must point out I could have taken your class,passed and still found myself at exactly the same place.</span></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204404 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204404 <p><span style="font-size: small;">Thank you Tom,for the back up. I agree Robb about the concept,but I must point out I could have taken your class,passed and still found myself at exactly the same place.</span></p> <p>You could have merely shown your diploma and the Willis administration would have seen to it&nbsp;you were taken care of. Tough luck for the crazed weasel family, though.&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204414 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204414 <p>You could have merely shown your diploma and the Willis administration would have seen to it&nbsp;you were taken care of. Tough luck for the crazed weasel family, though.&nbsp;</p> <p>Sage, I don't know the circumstances of your past and I can't possibly comment on your life.&nbsp;&nbsp;I do know what it's like to grow up dirt poor and I have also been literally dirt poor as an adult.&nbsp; And I know that working a minimum wage job drains the life from a person as much as living in poverty.&nbsp; Minimum wage jobs involve repetition, manual labor, little intellectual stimulus and little compensation, whether they pay $7 b/c that is the minimum wage&nbsp;or $8.&nbsp; The government's increase of the minimum wage doesn't change the essential problem, which is too many people believe that they can have good lives working for the minimum wage b/c the government will keep employers honest.&nbsp;</p> <p>I am not against programs that are designed to help families and others who have fallen on hard times.&nbsp; Safety net programs like unemployment and food stamps are very important for helping families and individuals get through the roughest periods of their lives.&nbsp;</p> <p>I also&nbsp;think that the government can provide &quot;traps&quot; or &quot;openings.&quot;&nbsp; The traps are actions like increasing minimum wage, which makes minimum wage jobs appear more attractive.&nbsp;&nbsp;We have kids dropping out of school in Kern County b/c they think that a minimum wage job will be sufficient to support themselves and their families into the future.&nbsp; The openings are things like government supported&nbsp;job-training programs and opportunities for school loans that help an individual develop skills to improve their job options.&nbsp; I think that those actions by the government are far more effective at helping people to improve their lives for the long term, which I think should be the goal of this discussion.&nbsp;</p> <p>Tomw:&nbsp; I think that sometimes folks do fall into hard times b/c of&nbsp;circumstances out of their control.&nbsp;&nbsp;Hence my answer above.&nbsp; If you honestly think that I would advocate death to decrease the surplus population, then I don't know what to say.&nbsp; Do you want to have a rational discussion or do you want to demagogue me and anyone else that disagrees with you?&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204419 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204419 <p>Sage, I don't know the circumstances of your past and I can't possibly comment on your life.&nbsp;&nbsp;I do know what it's like to grow up dirt poor and I have also been literally dirt poor as an adult.&nbsp; And I know that working a minimum wage job drains the life from a person as much as living in poverty.&nbsp; Minimum wage jobs involve repetition, manual labor, little intellectual stimulus and little compensation, whether they pay $7 b/c that is the minimum wage&nbsp;or $8.&nbsp; The government's increase of the minimum wage doesn't change the essential problem, which is too many people believe that they can have good lives working for the minimum wage b/c the government will keep employers honest.&nbsp;</p> <p>I am not against programs that are designed to help families and others who have fallen on hard times.&nbsp; Safety net programs like unemployment and food stamps are very important for helping families and individuals get through the roughest periods of their lives.&nbsp;</p> <p>I also&nbsp;think that the government can provide &quot;traps&quot; or &quot;openings.&quot;&nbsp; The traps are actions like increasing minimum wage, which makes minimum wage jobs appear more attractive.&nbsp;&nbsp;We have kids dropping out of school in Kern County b/c they think that a minimum wage job will be sufficient to support themselves and their families into the future.&nbsp; The openings are things like government supported&nbsp;job-training programs and opportunities for school loans that help an individual develop skills to improve their job options.&nbsp; I think that those actions by the government are far more effective at helping people to improve their lives for the long term, which I think should be the goal of this discussion.&nbsp;</p> <p>Tomw:&nbsp; I think that sometimes folks do fall into hard times b/c of&nbsp;circumstances out of their control.&nbsp;&nbsp;Hence my answer above.&nbsp; If you honestly think that I would advocate death to decrease the surplus population, then I don't know what to say.&nbsp; Do you want to have a rational discussion or do you want to demagogue me and anyone else that disagrees with you?&nbsp;</p> <p><span style="font-size: small;">Good one~ the crazed weasel families do need to figure out why and how babies keep happening,and the benefits of proper birth control.</span></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204420 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204420 <p><span style="font-size: small;">Good one~ the crazed weasel families do need to figure out why and how babies keep happening,and the benefits of proper birth control.</span></p> <p>FreeCognate, I'll give you a pass on the demagoguing if you let me do it to everyone else.&nbsp; As for the dropout rate, that argument has been used and disproven for the last 20 years: http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm</p> <p style="margin-left: 40px;"><strong>Do Minimum Wages Reduce Educational Attainment?</strong>&nbsp; Economic theory predicts that the effect of minimum wages on school enrollment is ambiguous.^{<a href="http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm#19">(19)</a>} That is, a higher minimum wage makes employment more attractive and school less attractive, causing some teens to seek employment and/or drop out of school. A number of empirical studies have advanced the literature by examining the effects of minimum wages on the school enrollment status of teenagers.^{<a href="http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm#20">(20)</a>} Minimum wage opponents contend that it decreases teen employment and prompts at-risk teens to drop out of school. For example, Neumark and Wascher's estimates suggest that President Clinton's proposed minimum wage hike would lower school enrollment by 2.8 percentage points. However, their study used an inaccurate measure of school enrollment, misclassifying some students as nonstudents. As a result, Neumark and Wascher overestimated the adverse effects minimum wages have on school enrollment.^{<a href="http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm#21">(21)</a>} Evans and Turner (1995), using an accurate measure of school enrollment but otherwise identical specifications, found that the minimum wage does <em>not</em> affect school enrollment.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204429 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204429 <p>FreeCognate, I'll give you a pass on the demagoguing if you let me do it to everyone else.&nbsp; As for the dropout rate, that argument has been used and disproven for the last 20 years: http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm</p> <p style="margin-left: 40px;"><strong>Do Minimum Wages Reduce Educational Attainment?</strong>&nbsp; Economic theory predicts that the effect of minimum wages on school enrollment is ambiguous.^{<a href="http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm#19">(19)</a>} That is, a higher minimum wage makes employment more attractive and school less attractive, causing some teens to seek employment and/or drop out of school. A number of empirical studies have advanced the literature by examining the effects of minimum wages on the school enrollment status of teenagers.^{<a href="http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm#20">(20)</a>} Minimum wage opponents contend that it decreases teen employment and prompts at-risk teens to drop out of school. For example, Neumark and Wascher's estimates suggest that President Clinton's proposed minimum wage hike would lower school enrollment by 2.8 percentage points. However, their study used an inaccurate measure of school enrollment, misclassifying some students as nonstudents. As a result, Neumark and Wascher overestimated the adverse effects minimum wages have on school enrollment.^{<a href="http://aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/lwlm99/turner.htm#21">(21)</a>} Evans and Turner (1995), using an accurate measure of school enrollment but otherwise identical specifications, found that the minimum wage does <em>not</em> affect school enrollment.</p> <p>Tom, I can see where you're going with your explanation but it doesn't always work that way.  In small businesses the extra few dollare the employees make probably isn't going to find it's way into your store.</p> <p>As for people on minimum wages having children, that's just ignorance gone to seed.  If a couple is struggling with both making min. wage for instance, what makes them think they can afford a child?</p> <p>My first job was in the students store at BHS for less than min wage and my second was in my boyfriends aunts dress shop where I never made more than min. wage.  The jobs I had in feed and beverage service were all min. wage and I depended on tips to live.  I had no problem with that as I had the potential to make a lot more depending on my service.   I considered myself self employed during those years.  I sort of felt like people who availed themselves of the service appreciated it and the ones who did not avail themselves of the service, didn't subsidize my pay.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204436 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204436 <p>Tom, I can see where you're going with your explanation but it doesn't always work that way.  In small businesses the extra few dollare the employees make probably isn't going to find it's way into your store.</p> <p>As for people on minimum wages having children, that's just ignorance gone to seed.  If a couple is struggling with both making min. wage for instance, what makes them think they can afford a child?</p> <p>My first job was in the students store at BHS for less than min wage and my second was in my boyfriends aunts dress shop where I never made more than min. wage.  The jobs I had in feed and beverage service were all min. wage and I depended on tips to live.  I had no problem with that as I had the potential to make a lot more depending on my service.   I considered myself self employed during those years.  I sort of felt like people who availed themselves of the service appreciated it and the ones who did not avail themselves of the service, didn't subsidize my pay.</p> <p>Nancy, I agree that it doesn't always work that way.&nbsp; Certainly you wouldn't think that your own employee's would spend their additional money in their own store.&nbsp; As I mentioned earlier, minimum wage raises have discernable effects on the wages of the lowest 50% of wage earners.&nbsp; Overall, small businesses will do better and more sma businesses can start when the money in the system is more spread out.</p> <p>Not to seem flip about the hardworking people who don't benefit, but there are winners and losers in every market shift.&nbsp; </p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204444 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204444 <p>Nancy, I agree that it doesn't always work that way.&nbsp; Certainly you wouldn't think that your own employee's would spend their additional money in their own store.&nbsp; As I mentioned earlier, minimum wage raises have discernable effects on the wages of the lowest 50% of wage earners.&nbsp; Overall, small businesses will do better and more sma businesses can start when the money in the system is more spread out.</p> <p>Not to seem flip about the hardworking people who don't benefit, but there are winners and losers in every market shift.&nbsp; </p> <p><b>Nancy</b>: &quot;<i>Sales&nbsp;- overhead&nbsp;= profit.&nbsp; Increase overhead and profit decreases.</i></p> <p><i>I'm sorry, I'm not an economist or a deep thinker here but in my simple math a minus is a minus and all the charts and graphs won't change that.&nbsp;</i>&quot;<br /> <br /> And when <u>everyone</u> has more money, wouldn't that = more profits?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204448 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204448 <p><b>Nancy</b>: &quot;<i>Sales&nbsp;- overhead&nbsp;= profit.&nbsp; Increase overhead and profit decreases.</i></p> <p><i>I'm sorry, I'm not an economist or a deep thinker here but in my simple math a minus is a minus and all the charts and graphs won't change that.&nbsp;</i>&quot;<br /> <br /> And when <u>everyone</u> has more money, wouldn't that = more profits?</p> <p><span style="font-size: small"><font size="2">Way back when, weren't minimum wage jobs for high schoolers to earn extra money &amp; get some job training?&nbsp; During the summer many of my friends worked the sheds.&nbsp; I never thought minimum wage was supposed to be an &quot;income&quot; for a family of four!</font></span></p> <p><span style="font-size: small"><font size="2">I was considering looking into starting a business but I have now decided to not do that.</font></span></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204462 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204462 <p><span style="font-size: small"><font size="2">Way back when, weren't minimum wage jobs for high schoolers to earn extra money &amp; get some job training?&nbsp; During the summer many of my friends worked the sheds.&nbsp; I never thought minimum wage was supposed to be an &quot;income&quot; for a family of four!</font></span></p> <p><span style="font-size: small"><font size="2">I was considering looking into starting a business but I have now decided to not do that.</font></span></p> <p>I owned a couple of businesses in Shafter in the past and I paid our part time help minimum wage only because I had to. The employees that had brains and could help me make&nbsp;more money&nbsp; or make my job easier were&nbsp;paid more.&nbsp;I think their should be a training wage available for a short period especially for workers that fall under the child labor laws and work only a few hours a week.&nbsp; I agree the minimum wage for adults with children is to low, so don't go to work some place that only pays minimum wage if it's not enough. I also know for a fact and from personal experience that lay offs and a reduction in hours and an increase in prices are the reality.&nbsp; The small independent business are the ones that suffer the most, the ones most on these blogs praise over the corporations, because they don't have the buying power or the central kitchens to prepare foods for their franchises etc.&nbsp; Skills and education are the key.&nbsp; You must make yourself more valuable to employers.&nbsp; I know there are circumstances [layoffs and downsizing ] that make that a non issue but that is not norm.&nbsp; I have flip flopped on the min. wage issue before and still really don't know what it should be defined as.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204471 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204471 <p>I owned a couple of businesses in Shafter in the past and I paid our part time help minimum wage only because I had to. The employees that had brains and could help me make&nbsp;more money&nbsp; or make my job easier were&nbsp;paid more.&nbsp;I think their should be a training wage available for a short period especially for workers that fall under the child labor laws and work only a few hours a week.&nbsp; I agree the minimum wage for adults with children is to low, so don't go to work some place that only pays minimum wage if it's not enough. I also know for a fact and from personal experience that lay offs and a reduction in hours and an increase in prices are the reality.&nbsp; The small independent business are the ones that suffer the most, the ones most on these blogs praise over the corporations, because they don't have the buying power or the central kitchens to prepare foods for their franchises etc.&nbsp; Skills and education are the key.&nbsp; You must make yourself more valuable to employers.&nbsp; I know there are circumstances [layoffs and downsizing ] that make that a non issue but that is not norm.&nbsp; I have flip flopped on the min. wage issue before and still really don't know what it should be defined as.</p> <p>My thanks to the ones who see the reality and not just the ideal.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204493 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/MoneyTalks/22335/#c_204493 <p>My thanks to the ones who see the reality and not just the ideal.</p> <p><span style="font-size: small"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman">&nbsp;&nbsp;TomW, Thanks for conceding that I'm not advocating &quot;eat the poor.&quot;</span></sp