http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168 &ldquo;I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase.&rdquo; &ndash; Obama (video link http://tinyurl.com/cuxwr9 ) &ldquo;The largest cigarette tax in history will take effect Wednesday, April 1, 2009, and many penny pinching smokers are considering kicking the habit. President Obama signed legislation earlier this month that raises the federal cigarette tax by 62 cents a pack.&rdquo; - http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10105485 Oops. Is anyone surprised though? An interesting fact about the tax hike is that most smokers are low income. &ldquo;According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, only one in five Americans smokes, so the excise targets a minority -- and over half of all smokers are low income, and one of four are officially classified as poor.&rdquo; &ndash; Wall street journal This is not even counting all the other ways the poor will be hurt under Obama offsetting his pathetic &ldquo;tax credits&rdquo; that amount to $10 a week for an individual (two happy meals at McDonalds!), such as printing money (inflation tax), or cap and trade. Setting this aside, one of the said benefits of the tax hike is that it will give high incentive or just force people to quit. Here are few quotes: &ldquo;This legislation also wisely increases taxes on other tobacco products to encourage smokers to quit tobacco use and not simply switch to other less expensive products.&rdquo; &ndash; Medical News Today &ldquo;If the past is any guide, the sizable tax boost should have an immediate impact in getting many smokers to quit, and anti-smoking advocates were making the most of the moment yesterday.&rdquo; &ndash; Washington Post One of the &ldquo;benefits&rdquo; of a tax hike on cigarettes is that it will reduce smoking. Remember that voodoo concept supply and demand? When price goes up, demand goes down, right? If the price of cigarettes goes up, demand for them goes down. The interesting thing about admitting this is the implications. If politically liberal people are happy to admit one of the effects of taxing something is we&rsquo;ll see less of it, to remain consistent they must admit that this applies to all the things they want to tax. Statists want to tax productivity, investment, employers, trade, and work. So to say &ldquo;We should raise capital gains made on investment and savings&rdquo; is equal to saying &ldquo;We should reduce capital gains made on investment and savings.&rdquo; Simply change the words. &ldquo;This legislation also wisely increases taxes on employers to encourage employers to quit providing employment&rdquo; &ndash; Medical News Today (parody) &ldquo;If the past is any guide, the sizable tax boost should have an immediate impact in getting many investors to quit investing, and anti-investment advocates were making the most of the moment yesterday.&rdquo; &ndash; Washington Post (parody) For those of us who are consistent in advocating free market principles, it&rsquo;s not hard to come out of the closet and admit you accept controversial ideas like supply &amp; demand. In the same way that &lsquo;if price goes up, demand goes down&rsquo; applies to cigarettes, the same reasoning explains why minimum wage increases (and minimum wage in general) hurts the poor. When you use state force, backed by prison and death threats, to raise the price of labor by artificially setting price controls, you&rsquo;d expect less &lsquo;labor.&rsquo; &ldquo;If the past is any guide, the sizable minimum wage boost should have an immediate impact in getting many employers to quit hiring, and anti-job advocates were making the most of the moment yesterday.&rdquo; &ndash; Washington Post (parody) Can you imagine how upset people would be in liberals advocated tax increases, or minimum wage hikes like this? Of course when do gooders advocate ideas like wage hikes this is exactly the consequences are. There&rsquo;s no difference in the reasoning, just a difference in the rhetoric. In short, by Obama legislating higher taxes for poor smokers, supporters of the tax have revealed an inconvenient truth &ndash; that an increase in price means we see less of it. &ldquo;I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase.&rdquo; &ndash; Obama (video link http://tinyurl.com/cuxwr9 ) &ldquo;The largest cigarette tax in history will take effect Wednesday, April 1, 2009, and many penny pinching smokers are considering kicking the habit. President Obama signed legislation earlier this month that raises the federal cigarette tax by 62 cents a pack.&rdquo; - http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=10105485 Oops. Is anyone surprised though? An interesting fact about the tax hike is that most smokers are low income. &ldquo;According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, only one in five Americans smokes, so the excise targets a minority -- and over half of all smokers are low income, and one of four are officially classified as poor.&rdquo; &ndash; Wall street journal This is not even counting all the other ways the poor will be hurt under Obama offsetting his pathetic &ldquo;tax credits&rdquo; that amount to $10 a week for an individual (two happy meals at McDonalds!), such as printing money (inflation tax), or cap and trade. Setting this aside, one of the said benefits of the tax hike is that it will give high incentive or just force people to quit. Here are few quotes: &ldquo;This legislation also wisely increases taxes on other tobacco products to encourage smokers to quit tobacco use and not simply switch to other less expensive products.&rdquo; &ndash; Medical News Today &ldquo;If the past is any guide, the sizable tax boost should have an immediate impact in getting many smokers to quit, and anti-smoking advocates were making the most of the moment yesterday.&rdquo; &ndash; Washington Post One of the &ldquo;benefits&rdquo; of a tax hike on cigarettes is that it will reduce smoking. Remember that voodoo concept supply and demand? When price goes up, demand goes down, right? If the price of cigarettes goes up, demand for them goes down. The interesting thing about admitting this is the implications. If politically liberal people are happy to admit one of the effects of taxing something is we&rsquo;ll see less of it, to remain consistent they must admit that this applies to all the things they want to tax. Statists want to tax productivity, investment, employers, trade, and work. So to say &ldquo;We should raise capital gains made on investment and savings&rdquo; is equal to saying &ldquo;We should reduce capital gains made on investment and savings.&rdquo; Simply change the words. &ldquo;This legislation also wisely increases taxes on employers to encourage employers to quit providing employment&rdquo; &ndash; Medical News Today (parody) &ldquo;If the past is any guide, the sizable tax boost should have an immediate impact in getting many investors to quit investing, and anti-investment advocates were making the most of the moment yesterday.&rdquo; &ndash; Washington Post (parody) For those of us who are consistent in advocating free market principles, it&rsquo;s not hard to come out of the closet and admit you accept controversial ideas like supply &amp; demand. In the same way that &lsquo;if price goes up, demand goes down&rsquo; applies to cigarettes, the same reasoning explains why minimum wage increases (and minimum wage in general) hurts the poor. When you use state force, backed by prison and death threats, to raise the price of labor by artificially setting price controls, you&rsquo;d expect less &lsquo;labor.&rsquo; &ldquo;If the past is any guide, the sizable minimum wage boost should have an immediate impact in getting many employers to quit hiring, and anti-job advocates were making the most of the moment yesterday.&rdquo; &ndash; Washington Post (parody) Can you imagine how upset people would be in liberals advocated tax increases, or minimum wage hikes like this? Of course when do gooders advocate ideas like wage hikes this is exactly the consequences are. There&rsquo;s no difference in the reasoning, just a difference in the rhetoric. In short, by Obama legislating higher taxes for poor smokers, supporters of the tax have revealed an inconvenient truth &ndash; that an increase in price means we see less of it. en-us Thu, 21 May 2009 22:57:27 PDT <p>PLEASE&nbsp;tell me it aint so...I&nbsp;dont smoke and I&nbsp;didnt vote for him..I&nbsp;find one tastes bad and the other is distasteful..If he wasnt picking on the smokers he would be hitting on another consumer good like milk products..its a no win..same as giving a meager $250 stimulus to older folks and then cutting their paychecks not once but twice..hes a real peach that one..</p> <p>Can we impeach a peach..</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403623 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403623 <p>PLEASE&nbsp;tell me it aint so...I&nbsp;dont smoke and I&nbsp;didnt vote for him..I&nbsp;find one tastes bad and the other is distasteful..If he wasnt picking on the smokers he would be hitting on another consumer good like milk products..its a no win..same as giving a meager $250 stimulus to older folks and then cutting their paychecks not once but twice..hes a real peach that one..</p> <p>Can we impeach a peach..</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Little sympathy will be found among nonsmokers, many of whom feel that&nbsp;&nbsp;nicotine addiction&nbsp;merits&nbsp;no more sympathy than any other drug addiction, especially those who have watched friends or loved ones suffer agonizing death resulting from the deadly habit.</p> <p>Hiking the price of tobacco with&nbsp;consumption taxes doesn't kill cigarette smokers but continued use of tobacco products might.</p> <p>The highly addictive&nbsp;properties&nbsp;of nicotine use are often likened to&nbsp;heroin.</p> <p>The&nbsp;deadly effects of nicotine&nbsp;consumption are well documented.</p> <p>Many smokers have quit as the price of tobacco products rose beyond their willingness&nbsp;to pay.</p> <p>That's a good thing.</p> <p>How about a boycott of tobacco?</p> <p>Smoke no&nbsp;cigarettes and&nbsp;pay no&nbsp;tobacco&nbsp;taxes.</p> <p>If all smokers got the monkey off their back, many lungs would be saved.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403629 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403629 <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Little sympathy will be found among nonsmokers, many of whom feel that&nbsp;&nbsp;nicotine addiction&nbsp;merits&nbsp;no more sympathy than any other drug addiction, especially those who have watched friends or loved ones suffer agonizing death resulting from the deadly habit.</p> <p>Hiking the price of tobacco with&nbsp;consumption taxes doesn't kill cigarette smokers but continued use of tobacco products might.</p> <p>The highly addictive&nbsp;properties&nbsp;of nicotine use are often likened to&nbsp;heroin.</p> <p>The&nbsp;deadly effects of nicotine&nbsp;consumption are well documented.</p> <p>Many smokers have quit as the price of tobacco products rose beyond their willingness&nbsp;to pay.</p> <p>That's a good thing.</p> <p>How about a boycott of tobacco?</p> <p>Smoke no&nbsp;cigarettes and&nbsp;pay no&nbsp;tobacco&nbsp;taxes.</p> <p>If all smokers got the monkey off their back, many lungs would be saved.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Cigarette smoking is like playing Russian Roulette.</p> <p>You never know which one will start the cancer, emphysema, heart disease or other deadly malady.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403639 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403639 <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Cigarette smoking is like playing Russian Roulette.</p> <p>You never know which one will start the cancer, emphysema, heart disease or other deadly malady.</p> <p>good idea Saber then he could move on to taxing our babies for the milk they drink..he wants money..dont you get it??</p> <p>They are hitting the smokers because of people who believe like you do so it isnt such a bad tax in alot of people eyes..geezz the old addage... people who try to appear overly intelligent usually have no common sense sure rings true here...</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403640 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403640 <p>good idea Saber then he could move on to taxing our babies for the milk they drink..he wants money..dont you get it??</p> <p>They are hitting the smokers because of people who believe like you do so it isnt such a bad tax in alot of people eyes..geezz the old addage... people who try to appear overly intelligent usually have no common sense sure rings true here...</p> <p>I'll drink to that...now to go out in the patio and fire up a smoke and read the paper before I have to go to CBCC...</p> <br /> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403641 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403641 <p>I'll drink to that...now to go out in the patio and fire up a smoke and read the paper before I have to go to CBCC...</p> <br /> <p>Wait until alcohol and soda is hit with higher taxes. Obama needs income to cover his agenda.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403652 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403652 <p>Wait until alcohol and soda is hit with higher taxes. Obama needs income to cover his agenda.</p> <p>If taxes go up on soda and wine, I'll pay the higher taxes.&nbsp; I'm more interested in seeing income taxes go up on folks making $250,000 a year or more, though.&nbsp;</p> <p>I'd also love to see Obama impose a federal tax on legalized cannabis.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403654 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403654 <p>If taxes go up on soda and wine, I'll pay the higher taxes.&nbsp; I'm more interested in seeing income taxes go up on folks making $250,000 a year or more, though.&nbsp;</p> <p>I'd also love to see Obama impose a federal tax on legalized cannabis.</p> <p><strong>If taxes go up on soda and wine, I'll pay the higher taxes.&nbsp; I'm more interested in seeing income taxes go up on folks making $250,000 a year or more, though.&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p>Those that don't pay taxes think we should have higher taxes.&nbsp; Those that do pay taxes think we are paying too much.&nbsp; RF apparently doesn't pay enough taxes and thinks we ought to happily pay higher taxes.&nbsp; What do you have against people that are successful?&nbsp; Why do you justify that it is okay for those making higher income to pay more taxes than what they already pay?&nbsp; Where is the logic in this?&nbsp; Would you be happy if everybody just became lazy and became dependents of the government like you?&nbsp; Your statement is a good crying rally for communism. Let's punish those that actually put some effort into their lives - how dare they be successful.</p> <p>As for smoking, goverment can't afford people to quit.&nbsp; Remember when the campaign was to 'further cancer research'?&nbsp; Guess what?&nbsp; Just like all taxes, good intentions are over ruled by greed.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403663 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403663 <p><strong>If taxes go up on soda and wine, I'll pay the higher taxes.&nbsp; I'm more interested in seeing income taxes go up on folks making $250,000 a year or more, though.&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p>Those that don't pay taxes think we should have higher taxes.&nbsp; Those that do pay taxes think we are paying too much.&nbsp; RF apparently doesn't pay enough taxes and thinks we ought to happily pay higher taxes.&nbsp; What do you have against people that are successful?&nbsp; Why do you justify that it is okay for those making higher income to pay more taxes than what they already pay?&nbsp; Where is the logic in this?&nbsp; Would you be happy if everybody just became lazy and became dependents of the government like you?&nbsp; Your statement is a good crying rally for communism. Let's punish those that actually put some effort into their lives - how dare they be successful.</p> <p>As for smoking, goverment can't afford people to quit.&nbsp; Remember when the campaign was to 'further cancer research'?&nbsp; Guess what?&nbsp; Just like all taxes, good intentions are over ruled by greed.</p> <p><em>Those that don't pay taxes think we should have higher taxes.&nbsp;</em></p> <p>I pay taxes and think they should be higher on many people, quite possibly including me.&nbsp; Warren Buffett agress with me.</p> <p>.</p> <p><em>Why do you justify that it is okay for those making higher income to pay more taxes than what they already pay?</em></p> <p>Because they were the ones whose unjustified tax cut got us into the hole in the first place.&nbsp; Obama is proposing going back to the hideous tax structure that was in place during that horrible time known as the 1990's.&nbsp; You remember that &quot;long national nightmare of peace and prosperity&quot;?</p> <p>It's called a &quot;progressive income tax.&quot;&nbsp; It makes for a healthy economy when it's done right.&nbsp;</p> <p>If it helps any, think of it as pruning for growth.</p> <p>.</p> <p><em>As for smoking, goverment can't afford people to quit.&nbsp;</em></p> <p>Government would save quite a bit more money than the losses in tax revenue would cut.&nbsp; Smoking influences the #1, 2, 3, and 4 causes of death in America.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403667 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403667 <p><em>Those that don't pay taxes think we should have higher taxes.&nbsp;</em></p> <p>I pay taxes and think they should be higher on many people, quite possibly including me.&nbsp; Warren Buffett agress with me.</p> <p>.</p> <p><em>Why do you justify that it is okay for those making higher income to pay more taxes than what they already pay?</em></p> <p>Because they were the ones whose unjustified tax cut got us into the hole in the first place.&nbsp; Obama is proposing going back to the hideous tax structure that was in place during that horrible time known as the 1990's.&nbsp; You remember that &quot;long national nightmare of peace and prosperity&quot;?</p> <p>It's called a &quot;progressive income tax.&quot;&nbsp; It makes for a healthy economy when it's done right.&nbsp;</p> <p>If it helps any, think of it as pruning for growth.</p> <p>.</p> <p><em>As for smoking, goverment can't afford people to quit.&nbsp;</em></p> <p>Government would save quite a bit more money than the losses in tax revenue would cut.&nbsp; Smoking influences the #1, 2, 3, and 4 causes of death in America.</p> <p>Those who scream bloody murder over MJ being illegal and then complain about people smoking cigarettes are being a teensy bit hypocritical.&nbsp;&nbsp;Both are harmful physically and yet one does not alter perception while the other does.&nbsp;</p> <p>Is it really about health or is it about money?</p> <p>For the government to subsidize tobacco growers then raise taxes on it saying it might help people quit?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Nawww...that dog won't hunt.&nbsp;</p> <p>Does anyone else see the twisted thinking on this?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403668 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403668 <p>Those who scream bloody murder over MJ being illegal and then complain about people smoking cigarettes are being a teensy bit hypocritical.&nbsp;&nbsp;Both are harmful physically and yet one does not alter perception while the other does.&nbsp;</p> <p>Is it really about health or is it about money?</p> <p>For the government to subsidize tobacco growers then raise taxes on it saying it might help people quit?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Nawww...that dog won't hunt.&nbsp;</p> <p>Does anyone else see the twisted thinking on this?</p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Your young~&nbsp;a politician</span> <span style="font-size: medium;">says things,then circumstances change and,when the politician is bright,he changes his stance on an issue.<br /> </span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">This ain't my first rodeo~</span><span style="font-size: medium;">the process gets easier,your &quot;outrage&quot; gets less and less and your shiny bright ideals get a dose of reality. You will live.</span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403676 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403676 <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Your young~&nbsp;a politician</span> <span style="font-size: medium;">says things,then circumstances change and,when the politician is bright,he changes his stance on an issue.<br /> </span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">This ain't my first rodeo~</span><span style="font-size: medium;">the process gets easier,your &quot;outrage&quot; gets less and less and your shiny bright ideals get a dose of reality. You will live.</span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&quot;<em>Those who scream bloody murder over MJ being illegal and then complain about people smoking cigarettes are being a teensy bit hypocritical&quot;</em></p> <p>Really ... ? I don't&nbsp; know anyone who has died from smoking marijuana.</p> <p>Cigarettes are a health hazard. And people die from smoking them - it's true!</p> <p>Hypocritical is a simple&nbsp; word which doesn't&nbsp;take&nbsp;much to&nbsp;understand how to use correctly. Try again, Nancy.</p> <p>--virgil</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403678 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403678 <p>&quot;<em>Those who scream bloody murder over MJ being illegal and then complain about people smoking cigarettes are being a teensy bit hypocritical&quot;</em></p> <p>Really ... ? I don't&nbsp; know anyone who has died from smoking marijuana.</p> <p>Cigarettes are a health hazard. And people die from smoking them - it's true!</p> <p>Hypocritical is a simple&nbsp; word which doesn't&nbsp;take&nbsp;much to&nbsp;understand how to use correctly. Try again, Nancy.</p> <p>--virgil</p> <p>Smoking is not a necessity - you choose to do so.&nbsp; Plain and simple. Therefore, to argue that this tax is targeting the lower class and thereby going against Obama's plan is incorrect.&nbsp; He spoke plainly in stating that the taxes that <em>everyone</em> normally pays would not be raised - income, capital gains, etc.&nbsp; No matter what you do, as a U.S. citizen, you will pay certain taxes - those are the ones which Obama referred to.&nbsp; However, if you willingly choose to purchase specific non-essential goods, it's fair game IMO.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403680 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403680 <p>Smoking is not a necessity - you choose to do so.&nbsp; Plain and simple. Therefore, to argue that this tax is targeting the lower class and thereby going against Obama's plan is incorrect.&nbsp; He spoke plainly in stating that the taxes that <em>everyone</em> normally pays would not be raised - income, capital gains, etc.&nbsp; No matter what you do, as a U.S. citizen, you will pay certain taxes - those are the ones which Obama referred to.&nbsp; However, if you willingly choose to purchase specific non-essential goods, it's fair game IMO.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Yeah, I'm about ready to quit.&nbsp; I've had enough.&nbsp; I guess those First Five kids will just have to shift for themselves, and California and the Federal gov't will just have to do without my taxation without representation from now on.&nbsp;</p> <p>And since I've been paying my unfair share of taxes for years, now it's OTHER people's turns.&nbsp; I&nbsp;want extra taxes on :</p> <p>Off-road vehicles, just because I&nbsp;think they're noisy and create dirt and dust and I&nbsp;don't like them, but for the record I'll say it's because they're dangerous to people's health.&nbsp; Uh, and the environment.&nbsp;</p> <p>Trucks over 6' tall, because I&nbsp;can't see over them in my little car and I just simply don't like them.&nbsp; For the record I'll say it's because they're...uh...gas guzzlers.</p> <p>American Idol, because everyone seems to like it but me, and because I&nbsp;think it's irritating and noisy.&nbsp; And a vapid, soap-opera waste of time that could be better spent doing something else.&nbsp; $5 per American Idol viewing.</p> <p>There--that's a good start.&nbsp; Once everyone else catches up with me on my unfair tax-paying, I'll be satisfied.&nbsp; In the meantime, I'm going to quit smoking and let the gov't find another cash cow to pester to death.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403686 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403686 <p>Yeah, I'm about ready to quit.&nbsp; I've had enough.&nbsp; I guess those First Five kids will just have to shift for themselves, and California and the Federal gov't will just have to do without my taxation without representation from now on.&nbsp;</p> <p>And since I've been paying my unfair share of taxes for years, now it's OTHER people's turns.&nbsp; I&nbsp;want extra taxes on :</p> <p>Off-road vehicles, just because I&nbsp;think they're noisy and create dirt and dust and I&nbsp;don't like them, but for the record I'll say it's because they're dangerous to people's health.&nbsp; Uh, and the environment.&nbsp;</p> <p>Trucks over 6' tall, because I&nbsp;can't see over them in my little car and I just simply don't like them.&nbsp; For the record I'll say it's because they're...uh...gas guzzlers.</p> <p>American Idol, because everyone seems to like it but me, and because I&nbsp;think it's irritating and noisy.&nbsp; And a vapid, soap-opera waste of time that could be better spent doing something else.&nbsp; $5 per American Idol viewing.</p> <p>There--that's a good start.&nbsp; Once everyone else catches up with me on my unfair tax-paying, I'll be satisfied.&nbsp; In the meantime, I'm going to quit smoking and let the gov't find another cash cow to pester to death.</p> <p>In the back door, sneaking around the corner..all ends up in the same place.&nbsp; People paying more taxes...period.</p> <p>virgil, I don't know anyone who died from smoking cigarettes either.&nbsp; My Mom was a life long smoker and died from complications of lung cancer.&nbsp; She was also in the area of Utah where there was believed to have been health effects of hydrogen bomb testing.&nbsp; Would she have not developed cancer if not&nbsp; a smoker or in a radiation area?&nbsp; I don't know.&nbsp; Neither do the doctors or the scientists.&nbsp; As usual my point is lost..or maybe I&nbsp;wasn't clear enough.&nbsp; Either way I&nbsp;knew it was an exercise in futility when I&nbsp;posted it.</p> <p>By the way...I DO&nbsp;know the meaning of hypocrisy, I see it here on the blog all the time but thanks for attempting a&nbsp;linguistic lesson.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403689 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403689 <p>In the back door, sneaking around the corner..all ends up in the same place.&nbsp; People paying more taxes...period.</p> <p>virgil, I don't know anyone who died from smoking cigarettes either.&nbsp; My Mom was a life long smoker and died from complications of lung cancer.&nbsp; She was also in the area of Utah where there was believed to have been health effects of hydrogen bomb testing.&nbsp; Would she have not developed cancer if not&nbsp; a smoker or in a radiation area?&nbsp; I don't know.&nbsp; Neither do the doctors or the scientists.&nbsp; As usual my point is lost..or maybe I&nbsp;wasn't clear enough.&nbsp; Either way I&nbsp;knew it was an exercise in futility when I&nbsp;posted it.</p> <p>By the way...I DO&nbsp;know the meaning of hypocrisy, I see it here on the blog all the time but thanks for attempting a&nbsp;linguistic lesson.</p> <p>FSG, if that's the case then raise taxes on EVERYTHING..including taxing unprepared food.&nbsp; Some states already do that but lets make it across the board... that way it's a fair tax on EVERYONE since we all eat.&nbsp; Why target just one segment?</p> <p>Tax ice cream, chips, cookies, candy, after all none of those are necessities and it's a choice people make.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403693 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403693 <p>FSG, if that's the case then raise taxes on EVERYTHING..including taxing unprepared food.&nbsp; Some states already do that but lets make it across the board... that way it's a fair tax on EVERYONE since we all eat.&nbsp; Why target just one segment?</p> <p>Tax ice cream, chips, cookies, candy, after all none of those are necessities and it's a choice people make.</p> <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Siouz says: </strong><span style="color: #0000ff"><em><strong>&quot;good idea Saber then he could move on to taxing our babies for the milk they drink..he wants money..dont you get it?? They are hitting the smokers because of people who believe like you do so it isnt such a bad tax in alot of people eyes..geezz the old addage... people who try to appear overly intelligent usually have no common sense sure rings true here...&quot;</strong></em></span></p> <p>Duh, even us who only <span style="color: #0000ff"><em><strong>&quot;appear&quot;</strong></em></span> intelligent but&nbsp;have <span style="color: #0000ff"><em><strong>&quot;no common </strong></em></span><span style="color: #0000ff"><em><strong>sense&quot;</strong></em></span> understand that revenue must be raised by the government in order to pay the bills.</p> <p>We haven't yet thought of&nbsp;taxing babies' milk, though. Good idea.</p> <p>Duh, how would we tax mother's breast milk?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403694 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403694 <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Siouz says: </strong><span style="color: #0000ff"><em><strong>&quot;good idea Saber then he could move on to taxing our babies for the milk they drink..he wants money..dont you get it?? They are hitting the smokers because of people who believe like you do so it isnt such a bad tax in alot of people eyes..geezz the old addage... people who try to appear overly intelligent usually have no common sense sure rings true here...&quot;</strong></em></span></p> <p>Duh, even us who only <span style="color: #0000ff"><em><strong>&quot;appear&quot;</strong></em></span> intelligent but&nbsp;have <span style="color: #0000ff"><em><strong>&quot;no common </strong></em></span><span style="color: #0000ff"><em><strong>sense&quot;</strong></em></span> understand that revenue must be raised by the government in order to pay the bills.</p> <p>We haven't yet thought of&nbsp;taxing babies' milk, though. Good idea.</p> <p>Duh, how would we tax mother's breast milk?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">I'll see that American Idol viewing and raise you $10.&nbsp; What a zombie show~&nbsp;waits for the barrage of Idol fans hate...LOL</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Hypocrisy</span><span style="font-size: medium;"> is a oft used word around here</span><span style="font-size: medium;">...as is calling sarcasm....</span><span style="font-size: medium;">when it is just differing viewpoints dueling.<br /> </span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403695 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403695 <p><span style="font-size: medium;">I'll see that American Idol viewing and raise you $10.&nbsp; What a zombie show~&nbsp;waits for the barrage of Idol fans hate...LOL</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Hypocrisy</span><span style="font-size: medium;"> is a oft used word around here</span><span style="font-size: medium;">...as is calling sarcasm....</span><span style="font-size: medium;">when it is just differing viewpoints dueling.<br /> </span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p></p> <p><em>&quot;virgil, I don't know anyone who died from smoking cigarettes either.&quot;</em></p> <p>But, Nancy.&nbsp; You know they do die from smoking ( cigarettes ).</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><em>&nbsp;&quot;thanks for attempting a&nbsp;linguistic lesson.&quot;</em></p> <p>You're welcome.</p> <p>--virgil</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403696 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403696 <p></p> <p><em>&quot;virgil, I don't know anyone who died from smoking cigarettes either.&quot;</em></p> <p>But, Nancy.&nbsp; You know they do die from smoking ( cigarettes ).</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><em>&nbsp;&quot;thanks for attempting a&nbsp;linguistic lesson.&quot;</em></p> <p>You're welcome.</p> <p>--virgil</p> <p><em>virgil, I don't know anyone who died from smoking cigarettes either.</em>&nbsp;</p> <p>I do.&nbsp; Both parents.&nbsp; I never got to meet my late wife's mother, who *ALSO* died from smoking.</p> <p><em>.</em></p> <p><em>For the government to subsidize tobacco growers then raise taxes on it saying it might help people quit?</em></p> <p>I'm all for removing tobacco subsidies.&nbsp; Of course, that would *DECREASE* the amount of money going to the federal government, but what can you do?&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403699 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403699 <p><em>virgil, I don't know anyone who died from smoking cigarettes either.</em>&nbsp;</p> <p>I do.&nbsp; Both parents.&nbsp; I never got to meet my late wife's mother, who *ALSO* died from smoking.</p> <p><em>.</em></p> <p><em>For the government to subsidize tobacco growers then raise taxes on it saying it might help people quit?</em></p> <p>I'm all for removing tobacco subsidies.&nbsp; Of course, that would *DECREASE* the amount of money going to the federal government, but what can you do?&nbsp;</p> <p>Lets forget about what they are taxing and remember that they are taxing. Obama's motive are not a pure as everyone wants to believe. He has pushed this ridiculous agenda of his since his first day in office. All he has done is created a debt from which this country can never get out from under. The democrat answer is to raise taxes and raise them where they will get the least amount of push back. I do NOT agree with the government raising taxes simply because they can spend the money we already give them with in reasonable means. If I ran my home they way they run the government I would be out on the street. I say not only call for his impeachment but call for cutting all these politicians salaries so they have to live like the rest of us Americans. We don't need to pay these people over 200k a year to spend our money...They should get a dose of reality starting at the top... We don't need tax hikes we need spending control and in the right way...Do not cut teachers cut politicians....Teacher salary...maybe 60k a year...politician 175k to 300 or 400k....lets get rid of a few politicians and save a whole bunch of teachers...COMMON SENSE has been lost from this country.....Sorry for the rant but I felt it was appropriate in this discussion.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403701 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403701 <p>Lets forget about what they are taxing and remember that they are taxing. Obama's motive are not a pure as everyone wants to believe. He has pushed this ridiculous agenda of his since his first day in office. All he has done is created a debt from which this country can never get out from under. The democrat answer is to raise taxes and raise them where they will get the least amount of push back. I do NOT agree with the government raising taxes simply because they can spend the money we already give them with in reasonable means. If I ran my home they way they run the government I would be out on the street. I say not only call for his impeachment but call for cutting all these politicians salaries so they have to live like the rest of us Americans. We don't need to pay these people over 200k a year to spend our money...They should get a dose of reality starting at the top... We don't need tax hikes we need spending control and in the right way...Do not cut teachers cut politicians....Teacher salary...maybe 60k a year...politician 175k to 300 or 400k....lets get rid of a few politicians and save a whole bunch of teachers...COMMON SENSE has been lost from this country.....Sorry for the rant but I felt it was appropriate in this discussion.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>well....what a great inspiration to quit smoking.....</p> <p>I wonder how many nicotine habits are FUNDED&nbsp;by taxpayer money??</p> <p>soda, imo is just as bad as nicotine...with ungodly amounts of sugar...ever notice there is no recommended daily allowance of sugar?&nbsp; hmmmm</p> <p>one 12 oz can of soda has almost 40g of sugar.&nbsp; there are dieticians out there that recommend no more than 15-20 g of sugar for non diabetics per day, and NONE for diabetics.</p> <p>I have come to the conclusion, with my studies and personal knowledge of health, diet and exercise...that sugar is worse for you than saturated fat...again, just MY opinion.</p> <p>i wouldnt mind a hike on sodas....maybe help the poor kids quit drinking it</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403703 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403703 <p>well....what a great inspiration to quit smoking.....</p> <p>I wonder how many nicotine habits are FUNDED&nbsp;by taxpayer money??</p> <p>soda, imo is just as bad as nicotine...with ungodly amounts of sugar...ever notice there is no recommended daily allowance of sugar?&nbsp; hmmmm</p> <p>one 12 oz can of soda has almost 40g of sugar.&nbsp; there are dieticians out there that recommend no more than 15-20 g of sugar for non diabetics per day, and NONE for diabetics.</p> <p>I have come to the conclusion, with my studies and personal knowledge of health, diet and exercise...that sugar is worse for you than saturated fat...again, just MY opinion.</p> <p>i wouldnt mind a hike on sodas....maybe help the poor kids quit drinking it</p> <p><em>I wonder how many nicotine habits are FUNDED&nbsp;by taxpayer money??</em></p> <p>Those involving the &quot;patch&quot; or the nicotine gum and covered under publicly-funded health insurance.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403705 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403705 <p><em>I wonder how many nicotine habits are FUNDED&nbsp;by taxpayer money??</em></p> <p>Those involving the &quot;patch&quot; or the nicotine gum and covered under publicly-funded health insurance.</p> <p>American Idol...NO---Billy Idol...YES--&quot; Nice Day For A White Wedding &quot;---OK..I'm outta here..time for ' meds ' and CBCC appt...AFTER I swing by the cigarette shop for a can of Burglar..rolling machine..and zig-zags...</p> <p>Do you have any idea how much smokes costs now...</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403706 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403706 <p>American Idol...NO---Billy Idol...YES--&quot; Nice Day For A White Wedding &quot;---OK..I'm outta here..time for ' meds ' and CBCC appt...AFTER I swing by the cigarette shop for a can of Burglar..rolling machine..and zig-zags...</p> <p>Do you have any idea how much smokes costs now...</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><em>Duh, how would we tax mother's breast milk?</em></p> <p>&nbsp;Some boob will find a way.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403708 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403708 <p><em>Duh, how would we tax mother's breast milk?</em></p> <p>&nbsp;Some boob will find a way.</p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">darth~That is rich after the last 8 years. Where have you been? :-)</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">I used to go to the show with .50~ and got candy and a soda. Today you need a couple of $20's.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Agreed that our priorities are completly out of whack in regards to what teachers get compared to politicians. </span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403709 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403709 <p><span style="font-size: medium;">darth~That is rich after the last 8 years. Where have you been? :-)</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">I used to go to the show with .50~ and got candy and a soda. Today you need a couple of $20's.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Agreed that our priorities are completly out of whack in regards to what teachers get compared to politicians. </span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>By the way--I don't mind if 'The Big O' breaks a promise or two....for the last 8 years--we had an administration that couldn't tell the truth to save their souls---WHAT&nbsp;AMIGO..never been lied to...I'm SHOCKED</p> <br /> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403711 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403711 <p>By the way--I don't mind if 'The Big O' breaks a promise or two....for the last 8 years--we had an administration that couldn't tell the truth to save their souls---WHAT&nbsp;AMIGO..never been lied to...I'm SHOCKED</p> <br /> <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>LOL !!</p> <p>--virgil</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403712 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403712 <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>LOL !!</p> <p>--virgil</p> <p>I&nbsp;agree, Sage.&nbsp; A pox on 'em!&nbsp; Let's face it--the tobacco taxes were passed by non-smokers who don't like cigarette smoke.&nbsp; Weeeell, I don't like A LOT of things that other people like, and I want all of it TAXED!!!</p> <p>Yeah, I'm cranky today, and I'll throw down with any American Idol fan I want!&nbsp; Bring it on!&nbsp; LOL!</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403714 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403714 <p>I&nbsp;agree, Sage.&nbsp; A pox on 'em!&nbsp; Let's face it--the tobacco taxes were passed by non-smokers who don't like cigarette smoke.&nbsp; Weeeell, I don't like A LOT of things that other people like, and I want all of it TAXED!!!</p> <p>Yeah, I'm cranky today, and I'll throw down with any American Idol fan I want!&nbsp; Bring it on!&nbsp; LOL!</p> <p>Sage: Loved the Rodeo comment, and I will raise you $20 and give you Big Brother..</p> <p>I would pay taxes on soda and wine , I am on a diet so bread , pasta, chips, sodas&nbsp;are out for me so tax., away</p> <p>Obama said there would be taxes, thats what I heard him say,</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403715 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403715 <p>Sage: Loved the Rodeo comment, and I will raise you $20 and give you Big Brother..</p> <p>I would pay taxes on soda and wine , I am on a diet so bread , pasta, chips, sodas&nbsp;are out for me so tax., away</p> <p>Obama said there would be taxes, thats what I heard him say,</p> <p><em>soda, imo is just as bad as nicotine...with ungodly amounts of sugar...ever notice there is no recommended daily allowance of sugar?</em></p> <p>True.&nbsp; And I don't drink any soda with sugar (or, more correctly, HFCS) in it.&nbsp; And it should be kept off school campuses.</p> <p>Now, I used to keep sugar soda around for emergencies--but I mean true medical emergencies.</p> <p>.</p> <p>Obama's statement at the head of this post clearly means that his *INCOME TAX* proposals would not raise taxes on anyone under $250,000.&nbsp; And they won't.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403716 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403716 <p><em>soda, imo is just as bad as nicotine...with ungodly amounts of sugar...ever notice there is no recommended daily allowance of sugar?</em></p> <p>True.&nbsp; And I don't drink any soda with sugar (or, more correctly, HFCS) in it.&nbsp; And it should be kept off school campuses.</p> <p>Now, I used to keep sugar soda around for emergencies--but I mean true medical emergencies.</p> <p>.</p> <p>Obama's statement at the head of this post clearly means that his *INCOME TAX* proposals would not raise taxes on anyone under $250,000.&nbsp; And they won't.</p> <p></p> <p>Darth, what do you think Obama's impure motive is?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403725 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403725 <p></p> <p>Darth, what do you think Obama's impure motive is?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;Soda's are bad.</p> <p>They make me want to spank my children after&nbsp;they've had one - bouncy kids.</p> <p>--virgil</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403730 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403730 <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;Soda's are bad.</p> <p>They make me want to spank my children after&nbsp;they've had one - bouncy kids.</p> <p>--virgil</p> <p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; ">The interesting thing about admitting this is the implications. If politically liberal people are happy to admit one of the effects of taxing something is we&rsquo;ll see less of it, to remain consistent they must admit that this applies to all the things they want to tax. Statists want to tax productivity, investment, employers, trade, and work. So to say &ldquo;We should raise capital gains made on investment and savings&rdquo; is equal to saying &ldquo;We should reduce capital gains made on investment and savings.&rdquo; Simply change the words.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>&ldquo;This legislation also wisely increases taxes on employers to encourage employers to quit providing employment&rdquo; &ndash; Medical News Today (parody)</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Geez, this guy needs a big dose of the real world.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Two thirds of the people in the top 1% income bracket never worked for their money. They either divorced for it, or more commonly, inherited it.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Zero productivity, but lots of capital gains.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">They could take the capital and start a productive business enterprise. Oh, but wait, that would require work ethic, skill, and an appetite for risk...never mind.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Tell ya what Axiomtek, give your employer a break, and live up to your personal view.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Tell your employer that you now want to pay your entire FICA tax yourself.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">The poor guy is paying half of it for you out of his profits. That tax is for your benefit, not his.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Don&rsquo;t ya think it&rsquo;s very Liberal of you to expect someone to take care of you out of their own profits?</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Just wondering.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403731 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403731 <p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; ">The interesting thing about admitting this is the implications. If politically liberal people are happy to admit one of the effects of taxing something is we&rsquo;ll see less of it, to remain consistent they must admit that this applies to all the things they want to tax. Statists want to tax productivity, investment, employers, trade, and work. So to say &ldquo;We should raise capital gains made on investment and savings&rdquo; is equal to saying &ldquo;We should reduce capital gains made on investment and savings.&rdquo; Simply change the words.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>&ldquo;This legislation also wisely increases taxes on employers to encourage employers to quit providing employment&rdquo; &ndash; Medical News Today (parody)</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Geez, this guy needs a big dose of the real world.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Two thirds of the people in the top 1% income bracket never worked for their money. They either divorced for it, or more commonly, inherited it.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Zero productivity, but lots of capital gains.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">They could take the capital and start a productive business enterprise. Oh, but wait, that would require work ethic, skill, and an appetite for risk...never mind.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Tell ya what Axiomtek, give your employer a break, and live up to your personal view.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Tell your employer that you now want to pay your entire FICA tax yourself.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">The poor guy is paying half of it for you out of his profits. That tax is for your benefit, not his.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Don&rsquo;t ya think it&rsquo;s very Liberal of you to expect someone to take care of you out of their own profits?</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Just wondering.</p> <p><em>Statists want to tax productivity, investment, employers, trade, and work.</em></p> <p>Nope.&nbsp; Just income.&nbsp;&nbsp; And yes, you'll get less income if income taxes go up.&nbsp; The theory--and it works--is that you'll get offsetting advantages too.</p> <p>But it puts a whole new spin on the&nbsp;Republican opposition to the&nbsp;&quot;death tax,&quot; don't it? &nbsp;&quot;Pro-life&quot; my heiney.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403733 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403733 <p><em>Statists want to tax productivity, investment, employers, trade, and work.</em></p> <p>Nope.&nbsp; Just income.&nbsp;&nbsp; And yes, you'll get less income if income taxes go up.&nbsp; The theory--and it works--is that you'll get offsetting advantages too.</p> <p>But it puts a whole new spin on the&nbsp;Republican opposition to the&nbsp;&quot;death tax,&quot; don't it? &nbsp;&quot;Pro-life&quot; my heiney.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>If fat people paid an &quot;Obesity Tax&quot; we could balance the budget and pay off the deficit.</p> <p>They would begin to eat less and&nbsp;the demand for cheeseburgers, fries&nbsp;and ice cream would eventually be reduced, making&nbsp;good food cheaper for skinny people.</p> <p>While we're at it, why not an ice&nbsp;cream tax?</p> <p>Excluding Spumoni and Butter Pecan, of course.</p> <p>With the&nbsp;Obesity Tax inducing the overweight to become healthier, the burden on the healthcare industry would also be eased.</p> <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403734 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403734 <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>If fat people paid an &quot;Obesity Tax&quot; we could balance the budget and pay off the deficit.</p> <p>They would begin to eat less and&nbsp;the demand for cheeseburgers, fries&nbsp;and ice cream would eventually be reduced, making&nbsp;good food cheaper for skinny people.</p> <p>While we're at it, why not an ice&nbsp;cream tax?</p> <p>Excluding Spumoni and Butter Pecan, of course.</p> <p>With the&nbsp;Obesity Tax inducing the overweight to become healthier, the burden on the healthcare industry would also be eased.</p> <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>@ Floridastategrad</p> <br /> <p>You choose to do a lot of things.&nbsp; Drinking water is one of those things.&nbsp; No one is telling you to live or die, but this isn't about life or death, is it?&nbsp; It's about having the maximum number of choices in life that don't impede on others' choices.&nbsp; Raising the tax on ciggarettes is an unnecessary decrease of freedom.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403742 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403742 <p>@ Floridastategrad</p> <br /> <p>You choose to do a lot of things.&nbsp; Drinking water is one of those things.&nbsp; No one is telling you to live or die, but this isn't about life or death, is it?&nbsp; It's about having the maximum number of choices in life that don't impede on others' choices.&nbsp; Raising the tax on ciggarettes is an unnecessary decrease of freedom.</p> <p>Donmason, Axiomtek doesn't have an employer.&nbsp; Perhaps you should stop spewing false ad hominem counters so that you can debate what is real and what matters.</p> <br /> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403745 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403745 <p>Donmason, Axiomtek doesn't have an employer.&nbsp; Perhaps you should stop spewing false ad hominem counters so that you can debate what is real and what matters.</p> <br /> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">My name is sage and I am adicted to Coke. Coca Cola that is.&nbsp; But tax away,NP for me to pay extra to have my sugar needs met.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Still think any stinking &quot;reality show&quot; viewers should be taxed</span> <span style="font-size: medium;">really,really high....talk about</span><span style="font-size: medium;"> bad for you....</span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403747 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403747 <p><span style="font-size: medium;">My name is sage and I am adicted to Coke. Coca Cola that is.&nbsp; But tax away,NP for me to pay extra to have my sugar needs met.</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Still think any stinking &quot;reality show&quot; viewers should be taxed</span> <span style="font-size: medium;">really,really high....talk about</span><span style="font-size: medium;"> bad for you....</span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>randomfactor, income is made by doing something prodoctive.</p> <br /> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403750 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403750 <p>randomfactor, income is made by doing something prodoctive.</p> <br /> <p>Saber, I&nbsp;beat you to it</p> <p>&quot;Tax ice cream, chips, cookies, candy, after all none of those are necessities and it's a choice people make.&quot;</p> <p>Along with Butter Pecan add Heavenly Hash.&nbsp; MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403751 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403751 <p>Saber, I&nbsp;beat you to it</p> <p>&quot;Tax ice cream, chips, cookies, candy, after all none of those are necessities and it's a choice people make.&quot;</p> <p>Along with Butter Pecan add Heavenly Hash.&nbsp; MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM</p> <p>And that income is then taxed.&nbsp; That doesn't mean there's less productivity--the productivity is already accomplished when the income is generated.</p> <p>Now, if the tax were at 100 percent of income, yes, that would tend to make a dent in it.&nbsp;</p> <p>Income is also made by doing nonproductive things--like winning the lottery.&nbsp; And *THAT* income is taxed.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403753 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403753 <p>And that income is then taxed.&nbsp; That doesn't mean there's less productivity--the productivity is already accomplished when the income is generated.</p> <p>Now, if the tax were at 100 percent of income, yes, that would tend to make a dent in it.&nbsp;</p> <p>Income is also made by doing nonproductive things--like winning the lottery.&nbsp; And *THAT* income is taxed.</p> <p>And what happens the next time around, randomfactor?</p> <br /> <p>Do people behave the same now that they know the govt gets to break the rules of incentives?</p> <p>No, they adopt different behaviors, and they either cheat, or don't play at all.</p> <p>If you were playing poker with a buddy, and he was cheating, you would either cheat too or stop playing.&nbsp; Most people do the latter.&nbsp; And when they realize the other guy can use a gun, They really start to lose hope in the game of Poker.</p> <p>Saound familiar?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403758 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403758 <p>And what happens the next time around, randomfactor?</p> <br /> <p>Do people behave the same now that they know the govt gets to break the rules of incentives?</p> <p>No, they adopt different behaviors, and they either cheat, or don't play at all.</p> <p>If you were playing poker with a buddy, and he was cheating, you would either cheat too or stop playing.&nbsp; Most people do the latter.&nbsp; And when they realize the other guy can use a gun, They really start to lose hope in the game of Poker.</p> <p>Saound familiar?</p> <p>Nancy, we finally agree on something.</p> <p>And darn you for reminding me that Heavenly Hash is *ALSO* non-Atkins-friendly.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403759 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403759 <p>Nancy, we finally agree on something.</p> <p>And darn you for reminding me that Heavenly Hash is *ALSO* non-Atkins-friendly.</p> <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Nancy, Ben and Jerry are criminals pandering to the obese.</p> <p>People have probably died from Chunky Monkey and Cherries Garcia overdoses.</p> <p>Tax those turkeys heavily.</p> <p>Hagendaas, too!</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403761 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403761 <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Nancy, Ben and Jerry are criminals pandering to the obese.</p> <p>People have probably died from Chunky Monkey and Cherries Garcia overdoses.</p> <p>Tax those turkeys heavily.</p> <p>Hagendaas, too!</p> <p>Oh but Random...it's so...so...sooo heavenly!</p> <p>Unfortunately for me it goes straight to the middle where it's non-jeans friendly.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403762 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403762 <p>Oh but Random...it's so...so...sooo heavenly!</p> <p>Unfortunately for me it goes straight to the middle where it's non-jeans friendly.</p> <p><em>And what happens the next time around, randomfactor?</em></p> <p>The next time around?&nbsp; The next time I earn (or get without earning) income I pay taxes on that too.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Arthur Laffer (of the&nbsp;cocktail-napkin &quot;curve&quot;) got it wrong because he made one unwarranted assumption.&nbsp; He made the same argument you are, that increasing taxes decreases investment, or productivity, or labor, or some such.&nbsp; His assumption was that we were at a point on the &quot;curve&quot; where that would happen.&nbsp; We weren't.&nbsp;</p> <p>Fortunately, we've got history to show us the way. &nbsp; Reagan lowered taxes.&nbsp; The economy got worse.&nbsp; He raised taxes.&nbsp; It got better.&nbsp;</p> <p>Shrub lowered taxes.&nbsp; The economy got worse (once his bubble burst).&nbsp; We'll put them back where they were and things will get better again.</p> <p>There *DOES* exist a place where taxes--a necessary evil--are at an optimum level.&nbsp; Democrats are *FAR* better at finding that point than Republicans are.</p> <p>Remember how income taxes were back in the 1950's?&nbsp; Ah, the Good Old Days.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403764 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403764 <p><em>And what happens the next time around, randomfactor?</em></p> <p>The next time around?&nbsp; The next time I earn (or get without earning) income I pay taxes on that too.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Arthur Laffer (of the&nbsp;cocktail-napkin &quot;curve&quot;) got it wrong because he made one unwarranted assumption.&nbsp; He made the same argument you are, that increasing taxes decreases investment, or productivity, or labor, or some such.&nbsp; His assumption was that we were at a point on the &quot;curve&quot; where that would happen.&nbsp; We weren't.&nbsp;</p> <p>Fortunately, we've got history to show us the way. &nbsp; Reagan lowered taxes.&nbsp; The economy got worse.&nbsp; He raised taxes.&nbsp; It got better.&nbsp;</p> <p>Shrub lowered taxes.&nbsp; The economy got worse (once his bubble burst).&nbsp; We'll put them back where they were and things will get better again.</p> <p>There *DOES* exist a place where taxes--a necessary evil--are at an optimum level.&nbsp; Democrats are *FAR* better at finding that point than Republicans are.</p> <p>Remember how income taxes were back in the 1950's?&nbsp; Ah, the Good Old Days.</p> <p>Errkk..you guys are torturing me.&nbsp; Cherries Garcia and my wallet clash.&nbsp; But another not to be missed experience.&nbsp; I&nbsp;found a way to limit my intake though.&nbsp; Vons has miniature cups for a dollar.</p> <p>All I have in the freezer right now is vanilla and I'm having such withdrawals that last night I had a Hostess chocolate cupcake with ice cream on it .&nbsp; Sigh, necessity is the mother of invention.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403765 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403765 <p>Errkk..you guys are torturing me.&nbsp; Cherries Garcia and my wallet clash.&nbsp; But another not to be missed experience.&nbsp; I&nbsp;found a way to limit my intake though.&nbsp; Vons has miniature cups for a dollar.</p> <p>All I have in the freezer right now is vanilla and I'm having such withdrawals that last night I had a Hostess chocolate cupcake with ice cream on it .&nbsp; Sigh, necessity is the mother of invention.</p> <p>NancyII</p> <p><em><u>Tax ice cream</u></em></p> <p>Leave my Ben &amp; Jerry's Cinnamon Buns alone darn it!!! LOL</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403767 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403767 <p>NancyII</p> <p><em><u>Tax ice cream</u></em></p> <p>Leave my Ben &amp; Jerry's Cinnamon Buns alone darn it!!! LOL</p> <p>Cinnamon Buns ice cream?&nbsp; Interesting...&nbsp; Ok, we'll all have to agree ice cream is NEVER to be taxed.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403770 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403770 <p>Cinnamon Buns ice cream?&nbsp; Interesting...&nbsp; Ok, we'll all have to agree ice cream is NEVER to be taxed.</p> <p>Oh yes it is to die for!!</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403773 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403773 <p>Oh yes it is to die for!!</p> <p>Wa-ha-hait a minute.&nbsp; I never said anything about an ice-cream tax.&nbsp; You guys can just turn yourselves around from THAT idea and go back to where we were a minute ago.</p> <p>Erase!&nbsp; Erase!&nbsp; Erase!</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403774 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403774 <p>Wa-ha-hait a minute.&nbsp; I never said anything about an ice-cream tax.&nbsp; You guys can just turn yourselves around from THAT idea and go back to where we were a minute ago.</p> <p>Erase!&nbsp; Erase!&nbsp; Erase!</p> <p>You guys are all way off topic haha</p> <br /> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403776 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403776 <p>You guys are all way off topic haha</p> <br /> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">blog drift~ it happens and is often the size of Texas....</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">A Texas sized bowl of chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream,that is!</span></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403779 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403779 <p><span style="font-size: medium;">blog drift~ it happens and is often the size of Texas....</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">A Texas sized bowl of chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream,that is!</span></p> <p>saber: have not died from eating chunky monkey, though i am fat, I guess that's why i am on diet,,LOL&nbsp;LOL</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403782 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403782 <p>saber: have not died from eating chunky monkey, though i am fat, I guess that's why i am on diet,,LOL&nbsp;LOL</p> <p>u guys are off topic :P</p> <br /> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403787 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403787 <p>u guys are off topic :P</p> <br /> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">*looks innocent*&nbsp;who me? </span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Back to the serious topic at hand folks~ I'm off to get my fix.</span></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403789 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403789 <p><span style="font-size: medium;">*looks innocent*&nbsp;who me? </span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Back to the serious topic at hand folks~ I'm off to get my fix.</span></p> <p>randomfactor, the Laffer Curve wasn't invented to explicate some specific scanario, it was used to illustrate ALL&nbsp;possible scenarios.&nbsp; The Laffer Curve doesn't tell us WHERE&nbsp;the optimum tax rate is, it tells us THAT&nbsp;there is one.</p> <p>The Laffer Curve shows that changes in taxes will make changes in tax revenue, but not always by positive correlation.</p> <p>But, the incentives to create goods and services are different from a bottom line of tax revenue.&nbsp; Our deabte is over the incentives to produce goods and services, not about the government getting more taxes.</p> <p>But, if you still don't believe me, go look at Hong Kong, the only nation to have a government surplus (if I'm not mistaken).&nbsp; Oh, and they have a 15% flat tax.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403790 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403790 <p>randomfactor, the Laffer Curve wasn't invented to explicate some specific scanario, it was used to illustrate ALL&nbsp;possible scenarios.&nbsp; The Laffer Curve doesn't tell us WHERE&nbsp;the optimum tax rate is, it tells us THAT&nbsp;there is one.</p> <p>The Laffer Curve shows that changes in taxes will make changes in tax revenue, but not always by positive correlation.</p> <p>But, the incentives to create goods and services are different from a bottom line of tax revenue.&nbsp; Our deabte is over the incentives to produce goods and services, not about the government getting more taxes.</p> <p>But, if you still don't believe me, go look at Hong Kong, the only nation to have a government surplus (if I'm not mistaken).&nbsp; Oh, and they have a 15% flat tax.</p> <p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-weight: bold; ">Donmason, Axiomtek doesn't have an employer.&nbsp; Perhaps you should stop spewing false ad hominem counters so that you can debate what is real and what matters.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>lol&nbsp;</b> So a guy that won&rsquo;t work is ranting about free market enterprise, lack of individual productivity, and compromised incentives ? Thanks, that explains everything.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">So Nick, employer paid FICA is an expense put on employers that reduces profit, raises final product cost, and reduces the number of employees the employer can afford to hire.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">If a person truly believes in individual responsibility, and a total free market outlook, how can this be justified? Wouldn&rsquo;t they want to pay it all themselves?</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Rhetorical for sure, but totally on topic to the original post.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>Can you imagine how upset people would be in liberals advocated tax increases, or minimum wage hikes like this? Of course when do gooders advocate ideas like wage hikes this is exactly the consequences are. There&rsquo;s no difference in the reasoning, just a difference in the rhetoric.</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Employer paid FICA IS a wage hike to the employer. This law was enacted by &ldquo;do gooders&rdquo;. Just&nbsp; referring to the original post.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Obviously, you&rsquo;ve never had to be responsible for weekly payroll, or all the hidden costs required by law.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Disclaimer: I always&nbsp; paid my employees FICA as a necessary cost of doing business, but then again, I&rsquo;m not a naive Free Market drone.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403792 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403792 <p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-weight: bold; ">Donmason, Axiomtek doesn't have an employer.&nbsp; Perhaps you should stop spewing false ad hominem counters so that you can debate what is real and what matters.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>lol&nbsp;</b> So a guy that won&rsquo;t work is ranting about free market enterprise, lack of individual productivity, and compromised incentives ? Thanks, that explains everything.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">So Nick, employer paid FICA is an expense put on employers that reduces profit, raises final product cost, and reduces the number of employees the employer can afford to hire.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">If a person truly believes in individual responsibility, and a total free market outlook, how can this be justified? Wouldn&rsquo;t they want to pay it all themselves?</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Rhetorical for sure, but totally on topic to the original post.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>Can you imagine how upset people would be in liberals advocated tax increases, or minimum wage hikes like this? Of course when do gooders advocate ideas like wage hikes this is exactly the consequences are. There&rsquo;s no difference in the reasoning, just a difference in the rhetoric.</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Employer paid FICA IS a wage hike to the employer. This law was enacted by &ldquo;do gooders&rdquo;. Just&nbsp; referring to the original post.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Obviously, you&rsquo;ve never had to be responsible for weekly payroll, or all the hidden costs required by law.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Disclaimer: I always&nbsp; paid my employees FICA as a necessary cost of doing business, but then again, I&rsquo;m not a naive Free Market drone.</p> <p>But the Laffer curve is nothing more than a bell curve drawn on a napkin.&nbsp; It applies equally well to many situations.&nbsp; And you simply restate what *I* said.&nbsp; There *IS* an optimum tax rate.&nbsp; You assume it's lower than present (on those making $250k plus, anyway).&nbsp; I assume it's higher.&nbsp; My evidence for that is that the nation as a whole was doing better when it was higher.&nbsp; Your evidence to the contrary is?</p> <p>We were also doing better when banks were more tightly regulated.</p> <p>.</p> <p>I'd be ok with the Hong Kong model.&nbsp; Know where that surplus came from?&nbsp; From a tax on individual stock transactions.&nbsp; I think that is a *WONDERFUL* idea to supplement the income tax.&nbsp; I wish we'd do it here--there's *WAY* too much leeway given to the players in the vast crapgame which is the stockmarket.</p> <p>I'd also be OK with a flat tax here.&nbsp; Say, 35 percent, and the first $100,000 of income exempted.&nbsp; Might not need to be that high if they go with the stock market tax.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403795 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403795 <p>But the Laffer curve is nothing more than a bell curve drawn on a napkin.&nbsp; It applies equally well to many situations.&nbsp; And you simply restate what *I* said.&nbsp; There *IS* an optimum tax rate.&nbsp; You assume it's lower than present (on those making $250k plus, anyway).&nbsp; I assume it's higher.&nbsp; My evidence for that is that the nation as a whole was doing better when it was higher.&nbsp; Your evidence to the contrary is?</p> <p>We were also doing better when banks were more tightly regulated.</p> <p>.</p> <p>I'd be ok with the Hong Kong model.&nbsp; Know where that surplus came from?&nbsp; From a tax on individual stock transactions.&nbsp; I think that is a *WONDERFUL* idea to supplement the income tax.&nbsp; I wish we'd do it here--there's *WAY* too much leeway given to the players in the vast crapgame which is the stockmarket.</p> <p>I'd also be OK with a flat tax here.&nbsp; Say, 35 percent, and the first $100,000 of income exempted.&nbsp; Might not need to be that high if they go with the stock market tax.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p></p> <p><span style="color: #ff0000">Those involving the &quot;patch&quot; or the nicotine gum and covered under publicly-funded health insurance.</span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>thats like a woman on welfare having the public pay for her norplant......attempting to stop more bleeding of taxpayer funds....I DONT&nbsp;see a problem with these issues of attempting to stop smoking/having babies on the taxpayer dime.</p> <p>however, that still doesnt answer the original question about how many nicotine habits the taxpayers are funding</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403796 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403796 <p></p> <p><span style="color: #ff0000">Those involving the &quot;patch&quot; or the nicotine gum and covered under publicly-funded health insurance.</span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>thats like a woman on welfare having the public pay for her norplant......attempting to stop more bleeding of taxpayer funds....I DONT&nbsp;see a problem with these issues of attempting to stop smoking/having babies on the taxpayer dime.</p> <p>however, that still doesnt answer the original question about how many nicotine habits the taxpayers are funding</p> <p><em>So a guy that won&rsquo;t work is&nbsp;</em></p> <p>Actually, I think he's self-employed.&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403797 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403797 <p><em>So a guy that won&rsquo;t work is&nbsp;</em></p> <p>Actually, I think he's self-employed.&nbsp;</p> <p></p> <p>Obama's statement at the head of this post clearly means that his *INCOME TAX* proposals would not raise taxes on anyone under $250,000.&nbsp; And they won't.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>thats the way&nbsp; i read it too.&nbsp; this ISNT&nbsp;an income tax...but a goods tax</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403800 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403800 <p></p> <p>Obama's statement at the head of this post clearly means that his *INCOME TAX* proposals would not raise taxes on anyone under $250,000.&nbsp; And they won't.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>thats the way&nbsp; i read it too.&nbsp; this ISNT&nbsp;an income tax...but a goods tax</p> <p>Hold on randomfactor,</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&quot;There *IS* an optimum tax rate.&nbsp; You assume it's lower than present (on those making $250k plus, anyway).&nbsp; I assume it's higher.&quot;</p> <p>Stop right there.&nbsp; You say 'optimum'. 'Optimum for WHAT' is the question.&nbsp; In the case of increasing tax revenue, then yes, you may be right.&nbsp; But in the case of maximizing the production of goods and services, you would be wrong.&nbsp; We only disagree on the intent of a tax hike.&nbsp; If the intent of a tax hike is to get more money for the government, then fine, it can do it's job, but if at the same time there is less stuff to go around, then no one wins (except special interest groups).</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403803 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403803 <p>Hold on randomfactor,</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&quot;There *IS* an optimum tax rate.&nbsp; You assume it's lower than present (on those making $250k plus, anyway).&nbsp; I assume it's higher.&quot;</p> <p>Stop right there.&nbsp; You say 'optimum'. 'Optimum for WHAT' is the question.&nbsp; In the case of increasing tax revenue, then yes, you may be right.&nbsp; But in the case of maximizing the production of goods and services, you would be wrong.&nbsp; We only disagree on the intent of a tax hike.&nbsp; If the intent of a tax hike is to get more money for the government, then fine, it can do it's job, but if at the same time there is less stuff to go around, then no one wins (except special interest groups).</p> <p><em>however, that still doesnt answer the original question about how many nicotine habits the taxpayers are funding</em></p> <p>You'd have to count the&nbsp;number of such prescriptions, I guess.&nbsp;&nbsp; My point was that between taxes and tobacco subsidies, tobacco is a net *POSITIVE* to the government--if you leave out the incredible cost of</p> <p>--Medicare payments for O2 machines to treat emphysema, cancer surgeries, etc</p> <p>--Lost productivity</p> <p>--Firefighting costs for smoking-caused fires</p> <p>--Cleanup costs for cigarette butts (Oregon's complaining about those these days)</p> <p>The government's not actually encouraging anyone to smoke--tobacco subsidies *RAISED* the cost of tobacco, they didn't make it cheaper.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403804 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403804 <p><em>however, that still doesnt answer the original question about how many nicotine habits the taxpayers are funding</em></p> <p>You'd have to count the&nbsp;number of such prescriptions, I guess.&nbsp;&nbsp; My point was that between taxes and tobacco subsidies, tobacco is a net *POSITIVE* to the government--if you leave out the incredible cost of</p> <p>--Medicare payments for O2 machines to treat emphysema, cancer surgeries, etc</p> <p>--Lost productivity</p> <p>--Firefighting costs for smoking-caused fires</p> <p>--Cleanup costs for cigarette butts (Oregon's complaining about those these days)</p> <p>The government's not actually encouraging anyone to smoke--tobacco subsidies *RAISED* the cost of tobacco, they didn't make it cheaper.</p> <p>Donmason</p> <p>&quot;If a person truly believes in individual responsibility, and a total free market outlook, how can this be justified? Wouldn&rsquo;t they want to pay it all themselves?&quot;</p> <p>I'm going to admit that I don't understand your question.&nbsp; It seems like you're agreeing with me, but I detect either sarcsm, or that I'm just simply missing something.</p> <p>Care to elaborate?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403806 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403806 <p>Donmason</p> <p>&quot;If a person truly believes in individual responsibility, and a total free market outlook, how can this be justified? Wouldn&rsquo;t they want to pay it all themselves?&quot;</p> <p>I'm going to admit that I don't understand your question.&nbsp; It seems like you're agreeing with me, but I detect either sarcsm, or that I'm just simply missing something.</p> <p>Care to elaborate?</p> <p><em>'Optimum for WHAT' is the question.&nbsp;</em></p> <p>Economic growth for one.&nbsp; I think that in the long run it's important to have government income and outgo match (barring emergencies like the current one.)&nbsp;</p> <p>Having funding available for such things as roads, schools, police and fire, etc. is a net positive to the country even if it means taxes are higher.&nbsp; I believe (though cannot prove) that without those things the costs would be higher (unchecked wildfires, etc.) than the total tax cost of those services.&nbsp; The cost to the rich would also be higher than the cost of taxes *THEY* pay.</p> <p>In the case of returning to the 90's-era tax rates, there was a general rising of standard of living for all income groups that has *NOT*&nbsp;been seen under the past years of Shrub's term.&nbsp; Speaking ecologically, I think that the current situation, where wealth is increasingly concentrated at the very top alone, is not a healthy situation and is not sustainable.&nbsp;</p> <p>I look at the progressive income tax system as somewhat analogous to the speed-of-light&nbsp;restriction in the universe.&nbsp; The faster you go (the richer you get)&nbsp;the harder an incremental increase should be.&nbsp;&nbsp;Without such &quot;friction,&quot; you get a situation where the second million is easier to get than the first, and the&nbsp;tenth billion easier than the fifth.&nbsp; Such a system--it seems to me--would quickly&nbsp;accelerate out of control.</p> <p>Hong Kong's tax situation seems to bear that out--they go through wild oscillations of deficits and surpluses.&nbsp; What do you think of a Hong-Kong-style &quot;stamp tax&quot; on stock transactions, by the way?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403807 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403807 <p><em>'Optimum for WHAT' is the question.&nbsp;</em></p> <p>Economic growth for one.&nbsp; I think that in the long run it's important to have government income and outgo match (barring emergencies like the current one.)&nbsp;</p> <p>Having funding available for such things as roads, schools, police and fire, etc. is a net positive to the country even if it means taxes are higher.&nbsp; I believe (though cannot prove) that without those things the costs would be higher (unchecked wildfires, etc.) than the total tax cost of those services.&nbsp; The cost to the rich would also be higher than the cost of taxes *THEY* pay.</p> <p>In the case of returning to the 90's-era tax rates, there was a general rising of standard of living for all income groups that has *NOT*&nbsp;been seen under the past years of Shrub's term.&nbsp; Speaking ecologically, I think that the current situation, where wealth is increasingly concentrated at the very top alone, is not a healthy situation and is not sustainable.&nbsp;</p> <p>I look at the progressive income tax system as somewhat analogous to the speed-of-light&nbsp;restriction in the universe.&nbsp; The faster you go (the richer you get)&nbsp;the harder an incremental increase should be.&nbsp;&nbsp;Without such &quot;friction,&quot; you get a situation where the second million is easier to get than the first, and the&nbsp;tenth billion easier than the fifth.&nbsp; Such a system--it seems to me--would quickly&nbsp;accelerate out of control.</p> <p>Hong Kong's tax situation seems to bear that out--they go through wild oscillations of deficits and surpluses.&nbsp; What do you think of a Hong-Kong-style &quot;stamp tax&quot; on stock transactions, by the way?</p> <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;Ms. Jenny,</p> <p><em>&quot;...I guess that's why i am on diet ... &quot;</em></p> <p>You gotta be careful with that dieting stuff and do it&nbsp;right.&nbsp; Loook at what happens if you don't :</p> <p><em><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0DioxfMUz0">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0DioxfMUz0</a></em></p> <p>There is a language thing though ( just a bit of &quot;<em>off-color&quot; &nbsp;</em>language - <em>in the title</em>&nbsp;).</p> <p>--virgil</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403808 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403808 <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;Ms. Jenny,</p> <p><em>&quot;...I guess that's why i am on diet ... &quot;</em></p> <p>You gotta be careful with that dieting stuff and do it&nbsp;right.&nbsp; Loook at what happens if you don't :</p> <p><em><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0DioxfMUz0">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0DioxfMUz0</a></em></p> <p>There is a language thing though ( just a bit of &quot;<em>off-color&quot; &nbsp;</em>language - <em>in the title</em>&nbsp;).</p> <p>--virgil</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I'll make it very simple for you Nick.</p> <p>Half of your Social Security tax is paid by your employer. It's not voluntary. It's required by law.</p> <p>The SS benefits are for the employee, not the employer.</p> <p>Why would a &quot;Free Market&quot;, &quot;take personal responsibility&quot; individual expect the employer to pay this tax for them?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403813 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403813 <p>I'll make it very simple for you Nick.</p> <p>Half of your Social Security tax is paid by your employer. It's not voluntary. It's required by law.</p> <p>The SS benefits are for the employee, not the employer.</p> <p>Why would a &quot;Free Market&quot;, &quot;take personal responsibility&quot; individual expect the employer to pay this tax for them?</p> <p><em>Half of your Social Security tax is paid by your employer. It's not voluntary. It's required by law.</em></p> <p>And if&nbsp;it weren't, the wages would be equivalently higher to enable you to pay it.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403817 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403817 <p><em>Half of your Social Security tax is paid by your employer. It's not voluntary. It's required by law.</em></p> <p>And if&nbsp;it weren't, the wages would be equivalently higher to enable you to pay it.</p> <p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; ">Hey Random,</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Another source for tax revenue, never mentioned, would be a tax on currency trade transactions.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Trillions of dollars in currency trades happen every day, but most are for speculation, and not for closing international trade transactions.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">A 1% tax on trades would generate billions per day, while forcing transparency on a speculation base that&rsquo;s proven to be highly destabilizing to currency values, and it would lower capital flight from less stable banking systems.&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">The trades add no real value, but simply exploit paid interest rate differences between nation states.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Capital created in the USA should remain in the USA banking system.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403818 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403818 <p><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; ">Hey Random,</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Another source for tax revenue, never mentioned, would be a tax on currency trade transactions.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Trillions of dollars in currency trades happen every day, but most are for speculation, and not for closing international trade transactions.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">A 1% tax on trades would generate billions per day, while forcing transparency on a speculation base that&rsquo;s proven to be highly destabilizing to currency values, and it would lower capital flight from less stable banking systems.&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">The trades add no real value, but simply exploit paid interest rate differences between nation states.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">Capital created in the USA should remain in the USA banking system.</p> <p><em>FSG, if that's the case then raise taxes on EVERYTHING..including taxing unprepared food.&nbsp; Some states already do that but lets make it across the board... that way it's a fair tax on EVERYONE since we all eat.&nbsp; Why target just one segment?</em></p> <p>I think we should target multiple segments.&nbsp; I believe we should tax alcohol further, as the revenues generated would help decrease our debt, and people will still choose to drink regardless (me being one of those people).&nbsp; I believe we should levy more taxes on gasoline, which would once again force the general public to think before they get in that SUV without planning out their route.&nbsp; I was happy with gas prices above $4 a gallon because it finally made people wake up.&nbsp; I think we should legalize illicit drugs, produce them in government regulated facilities and tax them - we'd make a fortune and solve a number of other major issues in the process.</p> <p>However, taxing food would go against Obama's plan of ensuring that no family making less than $250,000 would see a forced tax increase.&nbsp; We all must eat to survive - therefore IMO food shouldn't be taxed.&nbsp; </p> <p><em>Tax ice cream, chips, cookies, candy, after all none of those are necessities and it's a choice people make.</em></p> <p>I'll give you that one.<em><br /> </em></p> <p><em>You choose to do a lot of things.&nbsp; Drinking water is one of those things.&nbsp; No one is telling you to live or die, but this isn't about life or death, is it?&nbsp; It's about having the maximum number of choices in life that don't impede on others' choices.&nbsp; Raising the tax on ciggarettes is an unnecessary decrease of freedom.</em></p> <p>I&nbsp;disagree. &nbsp;We all need water to sustain life.&nbsp; We do not need tobacco to sustain life.&nbsp; As it pertains to the &quot;maximum number of choices in life that don't impede on others' choices,&quot; - please tell me how exercising a higher tax on tobacco would limit someone's choice to use such products?&nbsp; There is nothing the Government would be doing that would take away that choice - it would merely be upping the ante, so to speak.&nbsp; You can still smoke, you just have to pay more for it.&nbsp; How is that different from anything else we purchase in society that is not neccisary for life to be sustained?&nbsp; Such a tax isn't dictating what one can believe, nor is it dictating what one can do or say.&nbsp; In the grand scheme of things, such a tax isn't going to take away someone's inalienable rights.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403821 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403821 <p><em>FSG, if that's the case then raise taxes on EVERYTHING..including taxing unprepared food.&nbsp; Some states already do that but lets make it across the board... that way it's a fair tax on EVERYONE since we all eat.&nbsp; Why target just one segment?</em></p> <p>I think we should target multiple segments.&nbsp; I believe we should tax alcohol further, as the revenues generated would help decrease our debt, and people will still choose to drink regardless (me being one of those people).&nbsp; I believe we should levy more taxes on gasoline, which would once again force the general public to think before they get in that SUV without planning out their route.&nbsp; I was happy with gas prices above $4 a gallon because it finally made people wake up.&nbsp; I think we should legalize illicit drugs, produce them in government regulated facilities and tax them - we'd make a fortune and solve a number of other major issues in the process.</p> <p>However, taxing food would go against Obama's plan of ensuring that no family making less than $250,000 would see a forced tax increase.&nbsp; We all must eat to survive - therefore IMO food shouldn't be taxed.&nbsp; </p> <p><em>Tax ice cream, chips, cookies, candy, after all none of those are necessities and it's a choice people make.</em></p> <p>I'll give you that one.<em><br /> </em></p> <p><em>You choose to do a lot of things.&nbsp; Drinking water is one of those things.&nbsp; No one is telling you to live or die, but this isn't about life or death, is it?&nbsp; It's about having the maximum number of choices in life that don't impede on others' choices.&nbsp; Raising the tax on ciggarettes is an unnecessary decrease of freedom.</em></p> <p>I&nbsp;disagree. &nbsp;We all need water to sustain life.&nbsp; We do not need tobacco to sustain life.&nbsp; As it pertains to the &quot;maximum number of choices in life that don't impede on others' choices,&quot; - please tell me how exercising a higher tax on tobacco would limit someone's choice to use such products?&nbsp; There is nothing the Government would be doing that would take away that choice - it would merely be upping the ante, so to speak.&nbsp; You can still smoke, you just have to pay more for it.&nbsp; How is that different from anything else we purchase in society that is not neccisary for life to be sustained?&nbsp; Such a tax isn't dictating what one can believe, nor is it dictating what one can do or say.&nbsp; In the grand scheme of things, such a tax isn't going to take away someone's inalienable rights.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>&quot;<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; ">Without such &quot;friction,&quot; you get a situation where the second million is easier to get than the first, and the&nbsp;tenth billion easier than the fifth.&nbsp; Such a system--it seems to me--would quickly&nbsp;accelerate out of control.&quot;</span></p> <p>Very true. &nbsp;The final result is crony Capitalism. We've been down that road a number of times, with the Robber Baron era being the most blatant example.</p> <p>When one guy gets all the marbles, we all lose.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403823 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403823 <p>&quot;<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; ">Without such &quot;friction,&quot; you get a situation where the second million is easier to get than the first, and the&nbsp;tenth billion easier than the fifth.&nbsp; Such a system--it seems to me--would quickly&nbsp;accelerate out of control.&quot;</span></p> <p>Very true. &nbsp;The final result is crony Capitalism. We've been down that road a number of times, with the Robber Baron era being the most blatant example.</p> <p>When one guy gets all the marbles, we all lose.</p> <p>Any sales tax is going to be regressive--it will hit the lower-income harder than the upper-income.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403824 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403824 <p>Any sales tax is going to be regressive--it will hit the lower-income harder than the upper-income.</p> <p>Sage- Your drinking Coke is keeping American Idol on TV. They are the major advertizer. if you drive a Ford, even more so.</p> <p>So AI is your fault. I'm sorry to have to tell you.</p> <p>You may scream in anger now.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403832 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403832 <p>Sage- Your drinking Coke is keeping American Idol on TV. They are the major advertizer. if you drive a Ford, even more so.</p> <p>So AI is your fault. I'm sorry to have to tell you.</p> <p>You may scream in anger now.</p> <p> <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type" /> <meta content="Word.Document" name="ProgId" /> <meta content="Microsoft Word 11" name="Generator" /> <meta content="Microsoft Word 11" name="Originator" /> <link href="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\user\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_filelist.xml" rel="File-List" /><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning /> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas /> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables /> <w:SnapToGridInCell /> <w:WrapTextWithPunct /> <w:UseAsianBreakRules /> <w:DontGrowAutofit /> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style type="text/css"> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><strong>Donmason</strong></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">You may have thought that when Nick said I did not have an employer I don&rsquo;t have a job. I&rsquo;m self-employed and run my own mobile IT company, I&rsquo;m not jobless.</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">You comment that my apparent joblessness &ldquo;explains everything&rdquo; though is revealing. It sounds like you&rsquo;re saying a person without a job I guess isn&rsquo;t really qualified to talk about economics &amp; politics?</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">This is akin to saying &ldquo;Wait, axiomtek doesn&rsquo;t have cancer and he&rsquo;s ranting about why cancer is bad, that explains his position&rdquo;</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">First I&rsquo;m against &ldquo;FICA&rdquo; so you&rsquo;re correct when you say &ldquo;if a person truly believes in individual responsibility&rdquo; that they would oppose state forced stuff.</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Second I reject the idea that &ldquo;the employer pays half&rdquo; &ndash; It&rsquo;s true that&rsquo;s what we&rsquo;re told, but I think this is an example of rhetoric vs reality. (example the &ldquo;patriot&rdquo; act?)</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">I&rsquo;d make my case but I&rsquo;ll have Milton Friedman make it for me</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdRpyfEmBE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdRpyfEmBE</a> &ndash; go to minute 8:05</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403838 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403838 <p> <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type" /> <meta content="Word.Document" name="ProgId" /> <meta content="Microsoft Word 11" name="Generator" /> <meta content="Microsoft Word 11" name="Originator" /> <link href="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\user\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_filelist.xml" rel="File-List" /><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning /> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas /> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables /> <w:SnapToGridInCell /> <w:WrapTextWithPunct /> <w:UseAsianBreakRules /> <w:DontGrowAutofit /> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style type="text/css"> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:Arial; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><strong>Donmason</strong></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">You may have thought that when Nick said I did not have an employer I don&rsquo;t have a job. I&rsquo;m self-employed and run my own mobile IT company, I&rsquo;m not jobless.</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">You comment that my apparent joblessness &ldquo;explains everything&rdquo; though is revealing. It sounds like you&rsquo;re saying a person without a job I guess isn&rsquo;t really qualified to talk about economics &amp; politics?</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">This is akin to saying &ldquo;Wait, axiomtek doesn&rsquo;t have cancer and he&rsquo;s ranting about why cancer is bad, that explains his position&rdquo;</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">First I&rsquo;m against &ldquo;FICA&rdquo; so you&rsquo;re correct when you say &ldquo;if a person truly believes in individual responsibility&rdquo; that they would oppose state forced stuff.</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">Second I reject the idea that &ldquo;the employer pays half&rdquo; &ndash; It&rsquo;s true that&rsquo;s what we&rsquo;re told, but I think this is an example of rhetoric vs reality. (example the &ldquo;patriot&rdquo; act?)</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p> <p class="MsoNormal">I&rsquo;d make my case but I&rsquo;ll have Milton Friedman make it for me</p> <p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdRpyfEmBE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfdRpyfEmBE</a> &ndash; go to minute 8:05</p> <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&quot;<em>So AI is your fault. I'm sorry to have to tell you.&quot;</em></p> <p>Well, &nbsp;</p> <p>&quot;Let them drink Coke ! &quot;</p> <p>Is what I say - just don't let my daughters know it's in the house.</p> <p>--virgil</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403839 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403839 <p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&quot;<em>So AI is your fault. I'm sorry to have to tell you.&quot;</em></p> <p>Well, &nbsp;</p> <p>&quot;Let them drink Coke ! &quot;</p> <p>Is what I say - just don't let my daughters know it's in the house.</p> <p>--virgil</p> <p>by the way, the fact that everyone here is competing against eachother on who can think of the most ways to tax us is really sickining. Some on th left honestly have a sexual obsession with thinking of really uncreative and just bizzar ways of taxing people for the sake of it.</p> <p>taxinging american idol because you dont like it?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403841 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403841 <p>by the way, the fact that everyone here is competing against eachother on who can think of the most ways to tax us is really sickining. Some on th left honestly have a sexual obsession with thinking of really uncreative and just bizzar ways of taxing people for the sake of it.</p> <p>taxinging american idol because you dont like it?</p> <p><strong>RF&nbsp;Wrote:&nbsp; Economic growth for one.&nbsp; I think that in the long run it's important to have government income and outgo match (barring emergencies like the current one.)&nbsp;</strong></p> <p>Of course, there is both sides of this equation they could be workin on. I'd say try the outgoing (expense) first.&nbsp; I'm not advocating that we have no tax as I too like clean streets and so forth.&nbsp; But, when was the last time you heard about goverment taking on a process improvement?&nbsp; Instead, all you hear about is layers of buracracy they put on to defend higher spending.&nbsp; And, when asked to reduce budget, rarely ever do they cut off their own expenses.&nbsp; They cut medcare, education and every other social policies and blame everyone for not collecting enough taxes.&nbsp;</p> <p>If you truly believe rasing taxes on successful people is the right thing to do, I have nothing more to say to you.&nbsp; Should I apologize to you for trying harder in school?&nbsp; Should I be blamed for working longer hours?&nbsp; Heck, if you feel that way about it, let's go to cosumer tax or ever flat tax system.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403844 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403844 <p><strong>RF&nbsp;Wrote:&nbsp; Economic growth for one.&nbsp; I think that in the long run it's important to have government income and outgo match (barring emergencies like the current one.)&nbsp;</strong></p> <p>Of course, there is both sides of this equation they could be workin on. I'd say try the outgoing (expense) first.&nbsp; I'm not advocating that we have no tax as I too like clean streets and so forth.&nbsp; But, when was the last time you heard about goverment taking on a process improvement?&nbsp; Instead, all you hear about is layers of buracracy they put on to defend higher spending.&nbsp; And, when asked to reduce budget, rarely ever do they cut off their own expenses.&nbsp; They cut medcare, education and every other social policies and blame everyone for not collecting enough taxes.&nbsp;</p> <p>If you truly believe rasing taxes on successful people is the right thing to do, I have nothing more to say to you.&nbsp; Should I apologize to you for trying harder in school?&nbsp; Should I be blamed for working longer hours?&nbsp; Heck, if you feel that way about it, let's go to cosumer tax or ever flat tax system.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">LOL~&nbsp;witbee!&nbsp;I *knew* you were a fan!&nbsp;And it is you and the other fans that keep Idol on the air. Coke wouldn't but ad time if you had some personal responsibility!&nbsp;;-)</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">That's all I have to say on the subject because it's &quot;off topic&quot;.</span></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403845 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403845 <p><span style="font-size: medium;">LOL~&nbsp;witbee!&nbsp;I *knew* you were a fan!&nbsp;And it is you and the other fans that keep Idol on the air. Coke wouldn't but ad time if you had some personal responsibility!&nbsp;;-)</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">That's all I have to say on the subject because it's &quot;off topic&quot;.</span></p> <p>Not to change the subject, but a tax on alcoholic beverages is being kicked around. That tap beer and a six-pack to go is going to cost you about 50 cents more.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403846 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403846 <p>Not to change the subject, but a tax on alcoholic beverages is being kicked around. That tap beer and a six-pack to go is going to cost you about 50 cents more.</p> <p></p> <p>taxinging american idol because you dont like it?</p> <p><strong>It was a joke, Axiomtek.&nbsp; Ugh.&nbsp; Time for me to go.</strong></p> <p><strong>Facebook, anyone?</strong></p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403848 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403848 <p></p> <p>taxinging american idol because you dont like it?</p> <p><strong>It was a joke, Axiomtek.&nbsp; Ugh.&nbsp; Time for me to go.</strong></p> <p><strong>Facebook, anyone?</strong></p> <p></p> <p>--Cleanup costs for cigarette butts (Oregon's complaining about those these days)</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I can see why.&nbsp; they are pretty unsightly.&nbsp; It irks me when we have people over my house for some reason, and a week later, mowing the lawn, or cleaning up the side of the house, i find cigarette butts....we have friends that smoke, we OFFER&nbsp;ashtrays on the tables outside, yet they feel the need to litter.</p> <p>I called one of them one time to come over and pick theirs up, as they were the only couple over that weekend, they did and apologized, but, have some common sense and respect</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403849 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403849 <p></p> <p>--Cleanup costs for cigarette butts (Oregon's complaining about those these days)</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I can see why.&nbsp; they are pretty unsightly.&nbsp; It irks me when we have people over my house for some reason, and a week later, mowing the lawn, or cleaning up the side of the house, i find cigarette butts....we have friends that smoke, we OFFER&nbsp;ashtrays on the tables outside, yet they feel the need to litter.</p> <p>I called one of them one time to come over and pick theirs up, as they were the only couple over that weekend, they did and apologized, but, have some common sense and respect</p> <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Learnem,</p> <p>I wanna be your friend - I really do.</p> <p>--virgil</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403853 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403853 <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Learnem,</p> <p>I wanna be your friend - I really do.</p> <p>--virgil</p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">LOL~&nbsp;he is a serious young man Cat!&nbsp;</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Hey is that a personal attack&quot;&nbsp;almost sexual obsession&quot;&nbsp;ROFLOL...I'm outta here......</span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403854 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403854 <p><span style="font-size: medium;">LOL~&nbsp;he is a serious young man Cat!&nbsp;</span></p> <p><span style="font-size: medium;">Hey is that a personal attack&quot;&nbsp;almost sexual obsession&quot;&nbsp;ROFLOL...I'm outta here......</span></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Floridastate.</p> <p>Freedom is all about options.&nbsp; Money gives us more options in the world.&nbsp; You would agree that the more money you have, the more options you have for doing stuff, right?</p> <p>Well, a tax is a decrease of options, regardless of what I value.&nbsp; I could value water one minute (cause I like to live, which is an arbitrary desire) and I could like ciggarettes the next (which is an equally arbitrary desire that is my own and no one can tell me otherwise).</p> <p>Whether you tax water or ciggarettes, or walking across the street, the fact remains that freedom is limited by absorbing opportunity and eating the money in a worse way than would have been used by you.</p> <p>It's obvious to me that freedom is lost in the process, and the question may still remain as to whether or not that's a good thing.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403855 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403855 <p>Floridastate.</p> <p>Freedom is all about options.&nbsp; Money gives us more options in the world.&nbsp; You would agree that the more money you have, the more options you have for doing stuff, right?</p> <p>Well, a tax is a decrease of options, regardless of what I value.&nbsp; I could value water one minute (cause I like to live, which is an arbitrary desire) and I could like ciggarettes the next (which is an equally arbitrary desire that is my own and no one can tell me otherwise).</p> <p>Whether you tax water or ciggarettes, or walking across the street, the fact remains that freedom is limited by absorbing opportunity and eating the money in a worse way than would have been used by you.</p> <p>It's obvious to me that freedom is lost in the process, and the question may still remain as to whether or not that's a good thing.</p> <p>Rules against murder also decrease options.&nbsp; I can live with that *AND* with a certain level of taxation, in exchange for schools, fire control and not getting shot down by my neighbor when I accidentally water his lawn along with mine.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403865 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403865 <p>Rules against murder also decrease options.&nbsp; I can live with that *AND* with a certain level of taxation, in exchange for schools, fire control and not getting shot down by my neighbor when I accidentally water his lawn along with mine.</p> <p><em>Freedom is all about options.</em>&nbsp;<em>Money gives us more options in the world.&nbsp; You would agree that the more money you have, the more options you have for doing stuff, right?</em></p> <p>First off, if you're arguing from the stance of true freedom, then we might as well just throw anarchy on the table, because that's the only way in which someone truely has the freedoms to do whatever they want without facing legal consequences.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Second, having more money does not always give one more options in the world.&nbsp; It depends on what specifically you're speaking of, and the context.&nbsp; I could be a millionare, or I could have $1 to my name - if I want to do something bad enough, I'll do it with or without the money.&nbsp; Being I used to smoke a pack a day +, I know for a fact times in college when&nbsp;I had no money, but still chose to smoke.&nbsp; Either I conserved the supply I had and smoked less cigarettes each day, or I bartered with friends to obtain that which I desired.&nbsp; In some cases,&nbsp;I might even make a decision not to purchase something I wanted, so that I could afford a pack.&nbsp; My lack of money didn't alter my freedom to smoke - it only changed to parameters around <em>how </em>I chose to smoke.&nbsp; I still had the freedom to smoke or not to smoke.&nbsp; That didn't change. This is no different than if further taxes were levied upon cigarettes, for the taxes themselves do not limit what a person can or cannot do, it only creates a new variable that they must consider before making the choice to purchase a pack.&nbsp; Being we live in a society where there are laws, rules and parameters in place, I look at this issue as being so inconsequential that it's almost absurd for anyone to make such a big deal about this.&nbsp; Funny enough, the majority of the people who are arguing your side of the equation aren't even smokers!</p> <p><em>Well, a tax is a decrease of options, regardless of what I value.&nbsp; I could value water one minute (cause I like to live, which is an arbitrary desire) and I could like ciggarettes the next (which is an equally arbitrary desire that is my own and no one can tell me otherwise).</em></p> <p>I don't follow your attempt at making a point - water is essential to continue living, and therefore as long as you value making it past next week, you a forced to ingest it.&nbsp; If you choose not to drink, you die.&nbsp; However, tobacco is not something that we must ingest in order to live.&nbsp; One can value tobacco, but in the end, it has no purpose other than to give someone enjoyment or pleasure, which is not equal to sustaining life itself.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>You're arguing apples and oranges.</p> <p><em>Whether you tax water or ciggarettes, or walking across the street, the fact remains that freedom is limited by absorbing opportunity and eating the money in a worse way than would have been used by you.</em></p> <p>If you tax something that is essential to life, you are in essence denying someone the right to live unless they pay the tax. &nbsp;If you tax something that is <em>not</em> essential to life, you are merely denying someone the right to purchase that product unless they pay the tax.&nbsp; Once again, two completely different issues which have no real connection.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>By your arguments, I would assume that you would rather we not tax anything?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><em>It's obvious to me that freedom is lost in the process, and the question may still remain as to whether or not that's a good thing.</em></p> <p>Perception does not equal reality.&nbsp; </p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I'll aree with you as to whether the idea of taxing tobacco further is a good idea or not is still up in the air, but I'm willing to look at all options that will help get us out of debt.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403868 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403868 <p><em>Freedom is all about options.</em>&nbsp;<em>Money gives us more options in the world.&nbsp; You would agree that the more money you have, the more options you have for doing stuff, right?</em></p> <p>First off, if you're arguing from the stance of true freedom, then we might as well just throw anarchy on the table, because that's the only way in which someone truely has the freedoms to do whatever they want without facing legal consequences.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Second, having more money does not always give one more options in the world.&nbsp; It depends on what specifically you're speaking of, and the context.&nbsp; I could be a millionare, or I could have $1 to my name - if I want to do something bad enough, I'll do it with or without the money.&nbsp; Being I used to smoke a pack a day +, I know for a fact times in college when&nbsp;I had no money, but still chose to smoke.&nbsp; Either I conserved the supply I had and smoked less cigarettes each day, or I bartered with friends to obtain that which I desired.&nbsp; In some cases,&nbsp;I might even make a decision not to purchase something I wanted, so that I could afford a pack.&nbsp; My lack of money didn't alter my freedom to smoke - it only changed to parameters around <em>how </em>I chose to smoke.&nbsp; I still had the freedom to smoke or not to smoke.&nbsp; That didn't change. This is no different than if further taxes were levied upon cigarettes, for the taxes themselves do not limit what a person can or cannot do, it only creates a new variable that they must consider before making the choice to purchase a pack.&nbsp; Being we live in a society where there are laws, rules and parameters in place, I look at this issue as being so inconsequential that it's almost absurd for anyone to make such a big deal about this.&nbsp; Funny enough, the majority of the people who are arguing your side of the equation aren't even smokers!</p> <p><em>Well, a tax is a decrease of options, regardless of what I value.&nbsp; I could value water one minute (cause I like to live, which is an arbitrary desire) and I could like ciggarettes the next (which is an equally arbitrary desire that is my own and no one can tell me otherwise).</em></p> <p>I don't follow your attempt at making a point - water is essential to continue living, and therefore as long as you value making it past next week, you a forced to ingest it.&nbsp; If you choose not to drink, you die.&nbsp; However, tobacco is not something that we must ingest in order to live.&nbsp; One can value tobacco, but in the end, it has no purpose other than to give someone enjoyment or pleasure, which is not equal to sustaining life itself.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>You're arguing apples and oranges.</p> <p><em>Whether you tax water or ciggarettes, or walking across the street, the fact remains that freedom is limited by absorbing opportunity and eating the money in a worse way than would have been used by you.</em></p> <p>If you tax something that is essential to life, you are in essence denying someone the right to live unless they pay the tax. &nbsp;If you tax something that is <em>not</em> essential to life, you are merely denying someone the right to purchase that product unless they pay the tax.&nbsp; Once again, two completely different issues which have no real connection.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>By your arguments, I would assume that you would rather we not tax anything?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><em>It's obvious to me that freedom is lost in the process, and the question may still remain as to whether or not that's a good thing.</em></p> <p>Perception does not equal reality.&nbsp; </p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>I'll aree with you as to whether the idea of taxing tobacco further is a good idea or not is still up in the air, but I'm willing to look at all options that will help get us out of debt.</p> <p>I'm going to take a wild guess here that Axiomtek is a devotee of Ms. Rand's fiction?&nbsp; The one who cribbed storylines from Little Orphan Annie?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403870 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403870 <p>I'm going to take a wild guess here that Axiomtek is a devotee of Ms. Rand's fiction?&nbsp; The one who cribbed storylines from Little Orphan Annie?</p> <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fkdBz2bds&amp;feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fkdBz2bds&amp;feature=related</a>&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp; )</p> <p>--virgil</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403896 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403896 <p></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fkdBz2bds&amp;feature=related">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fkdBz2bds&amp;feature=related</a>&nbsp; :&nbsp;&nbsp; )</p> <p>--virgil</p> <p>See,l if we would just adobt a national sales tax, then we wouldn't have this problem of what is taxed and what isn't.&nbsp; It is a straight consumption tax..</p> <p><a href="http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer">http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer</a></p> <h1>What is the FairTax?</h1> <p>The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including:</p> <ul> <li>A progressive national retail sales tax.</li> <li>A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level.</li> <li>Dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality.</li> <li>Repeal of the 16th Amendment through companion legislation.</li> <li> <p><strong>The FairTax:</strong></p> <ul> <li>Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks</li> <li>Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions</li> <li>Refunds in advance&nbsp;the tax on purchases of basic necessities</li> <li>Allows American products to compete fairly</li> <li>Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy</li> <li>Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding</li> <li>Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation</li> <li>Abolishes the IRS</li> </ul> </li> </ul> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403915 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403915 <p>See,l if we would just adobt a national sales tax, then we wouldn't have this problem of what is taxed and what isn't.&nbsp; It is a straight consumption tax..</p> <p><a href="http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer">http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer</a></p> <h1>What is the FairTax?</h1> <p>The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including:</p> <ul> <li>A progressive national retail sales tax.</li> <li>A prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level.</li> <li>Dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality.</li> <li>Repeal of the 16th Amendment through companion legislation.</li> <li> <p><strong>The FairTax:</strong></p> <ul> <li>Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks</li> <li>Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions</li> <li>Refunds in advance&nbsp;the tax on purchases of basic necessities</li> <li>Allows American products to compete fairly</li> <li>Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy</li> <li>Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding</li> <li>Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation</li> <li>Abolishes the IRS</li> </ul> </li> </ul> <p>Donmason</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>You may have thought that when Nick said I did not have an employer I don&rsquo;t have a job. I&rsquo;m self-employed and run my own mobile IT company, I&rsquo;m not jobless.</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">I apologize for being presumptive.&nbsp; As a rule, those that post anti tax rhetoric on these boards are usually government employees.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>You comment that my apparent joblessness &ldquo;explains everything&rdquo; though is revealing. It sounds like you&rsquo;re saying a person without a job I guess isn&rsquo;t really qualified to talk about economics &amp; politics?</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">When it comes to dialog about the real ramifications about the effects of policy on business, experience in business is the best teacher. I&rsquo;ve found most of the alarmist issues have turned out to be irrelevant to a small business like mine.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>&nbsp;First I&rsquo;m against &ldquo;FICA&rdquo; so you&rsquo;re correct when you say &ldquo;if a person truly believes in individual responsibility&rdquo; that they would oppose state forced stuff.</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>&nbsp;</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>Second I reject the idea that &ldquo;the employer pays half&rdquo; &ndash; It&rsquo;s true that&rsquo;s what we&rsquo;re told, but I think this is an example of rhetoric vs reality. (example the &ldquo;patriot&rdquo; act?)</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">I guess you haven&rsquo;t had to hire any employees yet. It&rsquo;s the law. You must send in half the FICA, along with income tax withholding, or the IRS gets really cranky.&nbsp;<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; ">In reality, the employer sends in 100% of the FICA, but 50% of it is deducted from the employee salary or wages.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>I&rsquo;d make my case but I&rsquo;ll have Milton Friedman make it for me</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">I&rsquo;ve read a great deal of Friedmans work. I&rsquo;m more with the Mises school of economics. His work has been far more predictive of economic trends, and more pragmatic concerning the ramifications of economic policy.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">The greatest flaw of Friedman is the assumption that all people have an equal ability for participation in our economic model.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">This is akin to assuming that a poor soul born with Downs Syndrome can be a brain surgeon, if only they work harder than a Rhodes Scholar.</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403935 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403935 <p>Donmason</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>You may have thought that when Nick said I did not have an employer I don&rsquo;t have a job. I&rsquo;m self-employed and run my own mobile IT company, I&rsquo;m not jobless.</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">I apologize for being presumptive.&nbsp; As a rule, those that post anti tax rhetoric on these boards are usually government employees.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>You comment that my apparent joblessness &ldquo;explains everything&rdquo; though is revealing. It sounds like you&rsquo;re saying a person without a job I guess isn&rsquo;t really qualified to talk about economics &amp; politics?</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">When it comes to dialog about the real ramifications about the effects of policy on business, experience in business is the best teacher. I&rsquo;ve found most of the alarmist issues have turned out to be irrelevant to a small business like mine.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>&nbsp;First I&rsquo;m against &ldquo;FICA&rdquo; so you&rsquo;re correct when you say &ldquo;if a person truly believes in individual responsibility&rdquo; that they would oppose state forced stuff.</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>&nbsp;</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>Second I reject the idea that &ldquo;the employer pays half&rdquo; &ndash; It&rsquo;s true that&rsquo;s what we&rsquo;re told, but I think this is an example of rhetoric vs reality. (example the &ldquo;patriot&rdquo; act?)</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">I guess you haven&rsquo;t had to hire any employees yet. It&rsquo;s the law. You must send in half the FICA, along with income tax withholding, or the IRS gets really cranky.&nbsp;<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; ">In reality, the employer sends in 100% of the FICA, but 50% of it is deducted from the employee salary or wages.</span></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande"><b>I&rsquo;d make my case but I&rsquo;ll have Milton Friedman make it for me</b></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">I&rsquo;ve read a great deal of Friedmans work. I&rsquo;m more with the Mises school of economics. His work has been far more predictive of economic trends, and more pragmatic concerning the ramifications of economic policy.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">The greatest flaw of Friedman is the assumption that all people have an equal ability for participation in our economic model.</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande; min-height: 15.0px">&nbsp;</p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Lucida Grande">This is akin to assuming that a poor soul born with Downs Syndrome can be a brain surgeon, if only they work harder than a Rhodes Scholar.</p> <p>Don, watch the video.</p> <br /> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403998 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_403998 <p>Don, watch the video.</p> <br /> <p>Friedman always makes the same circular argument.&nbsp;</p> <p>Yes, the amount any employer can pay for given work is the same, no matter what the net pay remaining might be.</p> <p>And yes, the FICA is regressive, but that is solved easily by removing the income cap.</p> <p>The flaw in his logic is simple. Abolish SS, and the resulting old age poverty would have to be covered by state, county, and local funds. No net gain.</p> <p>People are not born with equal talents and abilities. Nor is economic power equally shared as a result.</p> <p>That's the flaw in his outlook.</p> <p>As a self employed person, you'll find that your actual total Federal taxes paid, based on your net profit, will be less than 18% if your CPA knows what he's doing, and you're careful with your planning. Base it on gross profit and it's chump change.</p> <p>Is that really too much to pay?</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_404006 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_404006 <p>Friedman always makes the same circular argument.&nbsp;</p> <p>Yes, the amount any employer can pay for given work is the same, no matter what the net pay remaining might be.</p> <p>And yes, the FICA is regressive, but that is solved easily by removing the income cap.</p> <p>The flaw in his logic is simple. Abolish SS, and the resulting old age poverty would have to be covered by state, county, and local funds. No net gain.</p> <p>People are not born with equal talents and abilities. Nor is economic power equally shared as a result.</p> <p>That's the flaw in his outlook.</p> <p>As a self employed person, you'll find that your actual total Federal taxes paid, based on your net profit, will be less than 18% if your CPA knows what he's doing, and you're careful with your planning. Base it on gross profit and it's chump change.</p> <p>Is that really too much to pay?</p> <p><strong>&nbsp;As a rule, those that post anti tax rhetoric on these boards are usually government employees.</strong></p> <p>Not this government worker (and to think I've worked under three federal agencies).</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_404010 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_404010 <p><strong>&nbsp;As a rule, those that post anti tax rhetoric on these boards are usually government employees.</strong></p> <p>Not this government worker (and to think I've worked under three federal agencies).</p> <p>axiomtek:&nbsp; Interesting thread.&nbsp; All over the place, too.&nbsp;</p> <p>About taxing cigarettes:&nbsp; it has been a long time since I quit.&nbsp; At that time, the generics were, at a bargain stand, about $26 a carton.&nbsp; I live in a state where cigarette taxes are less than they are in a neighboring state, and the cops were always catching people loading up on cigarettes in one state to take to another.&nbsp; The &quot;rule&quot; was, I believe, that one could purchase enough for personal use.&nbsp; I don't believe they wanted people stocking their stores with cigarettes with no state stamp.&nbsp;</p> <p>I noted you made a reference to Milton Friedman.&nbsp; Smart guy.&nbsp; They don't make them like him anymore.&nbsp;</p> <p>He was one of the favored ones, according to my memory, of one William F. Buckley,&nbsp;Jr., who was also no slouch as to intellect.&nbsp; I could be wrong about that association.&nbsp; I've been wrong before.&nbsp; (Once.)&nbsp; One of my favorite quotes of Buckley was, &quot;What is free medicine?&nbsp; Free medicine is medicine that somebody else pays for.&quot;&nbsp; My next question was, well, what happens when nobody works?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_404019 http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog/axiomtek/45168/#c_404019 <p>axiomtek:&nbsp; Interesting thread.&nbsp; All over the place, too.&nbsp;</p> <p>About taxing cigarettes:&nbsp; it has been a long time since I quit.&nbsp; At that time, the generics were, at a bargain stand, about $26 a carton.&nbsp; I live in a state where cigarette taxes are less than they are in a neighboring state, and the cops were always catching people loading up on cigarettes in one state to take to another.&nbsp; The &quot;rule&quot; was, I believe, that one could purchase enough for personal use.&nbsp; I don't believe they wanted people stocking their stores with cigarettes with no state stamp.&nbsp;</p> <p>I noted you made a reference to Milton Friedman.&nbsp; Smart guy.&nbsp; They don't make them like him anymore.&nbsp;</p> <p>He was one of the favored ones, according to my memory, of one William F. Buckley,&nbsp;Jr., who was also no slouch as to intellect.&nbsp; I could be wrong about that association.&nbsp; I've been wrong before.&nbsp; (Once.)&nbsp; One of my favorite quotes of Buckley was, &quot;What is free medicine?&nbsp; Free medicine is medicine that somebody else pays for.&quot;&nbsp; My next question was, well, what happens when nobody works?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p>