Here it is.  Please honor the request at the end.  :)

For many years now, I have wondered how much longer we would go on our current course. How many malls do we need? How many different places to buy shoes, electronics, food, even (yuck) clothes do we really need? How much is enough? They say consumption is the way out of this mess. Though it is true that consumers are driving the current economic downturn by not, well, consuming stuff, the ultimate end to all this consumption is what? Build more, make more, burn more, produce more, eat more, more more more! At some point, GDP, consumption, resources all have to fall off. They can't go up forever. So what comes after that? Thanks ApolloDawn, great post.

Any economic plan that requires "growth" to operate is a tombstone.

The earth is only so big.

Well said and put together ~Apollo~...

Thank you AD for this positive post. I'm in agreement with each who has already had a comment.

IMO we need to pull back from all the "giving" to other countries and for once, even selfishly, take care of our own. We have homeless, starving, sick, elderly, just like the countries we are sending food, clothing and money to. 

Industry needs to pull back from other countries and get back to "Made in America" and that would put more Americans back to work. What farmlands we have left needs to grow food for the USA. We have "taken care" of others' need for so long, we have forgotten our own country's needs. It is time to go 'backward' a bit in order to go forward.

Oh, and no, AD..............moms don't have to stay home! But it would be nice!!!!!

Being free of debt myself AD I give my affirmation to your points for what its worth.

And poor businesses should be allowed to fail.

The other problem I see is the part about paying off consumer debt.  All that is doing is paying for items we've already taken possession of.  That isn't actually stimulating the economy as much as it's filling the banks pockets.  

If they handed me a stimulus check big enough to amount to anything, I'd pay off my 4 year old car.  That would ease my monthly financial burden but wouldn't put any money into circulation.   It wouldn't help the community, local businesses,  or the state.

Allowing people to keep more of their earnings would put money into circulation because most people live to their means (and above) no matter what their means are.  We're a paycheck to paycheck society.

The high speed rail check (for one) really bothers me as it's years down the road and no jobs will be created in time to save struggling families now.

Overall Apollo, I tend to agree with you.  The massive spending spree of the stimulus isn't the answer and a lot of us are very concerned about it.   When reality sets in, I think that will become clear.

AD:  It would be wonderful if we could get to the point we were not dependent upon other nations for anything.  Greed, in my opinion, has driven manufacturing to other countries.  But that's greed with permission, of course.  There's a middleman around there somewhere. 

Anyone who takes medication will eventually learn that it may be manufactured in England, Ireland, Canada, France, Germany, China, China, China, China, numerous other countries, and China.  Oh, and China.  Scary, slippery slope, although I have not much fear of anything made in the first five countries. 

I agree that we should concentrate on gaining as much control as possible over our own destinies.  How?  Borrowing from China?  It seems to me the farther we go, the behinder we get. 

I'm willing to send you to Washington, AD.  Maybe you could pound some sense into those in our Capital. 

So what is your position on voodoo economics;) 

" gradually but with resolve, to pull out of our distant dependencies and return control of as much of our fates and as many of our needs to sources as close to home as possible."

While this sounds great and really should be done in the long term, what is needed desperately right now is a shorter term "quick fix" to our fragile economy. If we were to just back off and return our resources close to home, the bread lines would wrap around the block in every city in America. Obama's plan will create jobs all over the country which in turn will get people actually spending the money they're earning at their new job. Sure you may not like each and every project, but look at the big picture. Jobs will be coming.

What I'm waiting for is what he plans to do with the horrendous housing crisis that is making new homeless people every month. I also can't wait until the top tax bracket finally has to pay what they should have been paying for years now.

Very good post.  I too, have very little debt and I'm constantly appalled by statements like "the average American has 15 credit cards".  What?!  I have ZERO and get by just fine.  Most of the income consumers could otherwise be spending on discretionary items seems to go to interest rates and fees to the credit card companies, and the government is as bad as the consumer in financing pet projects with debt - using other people's money!

I think if a stimulus payment should go to anyone, it would be to the taxpayers whose money it is in the first place.  I don't know how we can continue as a country to support ourselves when you only have a few people pulling the weight of everyone and shouldering the burden of those who refuse to work for themselves.  We need massive cuts to welfare and disability payments to keep the money in the hands of those who earn it and would otherwise spend it if they weren't giving it to someone else.  To me there's no better motivation for getting off welfare than to have it pulled from under you and risk facing destitution, and as for disability, when I see friends of mine who could collect disability (one is wheel-chair bound with MD) but opt instead to WORK, then the idea of someone sitting at home collecting money because they are obese or have bipolar disorder just reeks of laziness, not "disability."

The next thing we need to do to revitalize our economy is in line with my statements above - let those who make and have money to keep it and spend it as they please.  Higher taxes, doubled fees at the DMV, more money for businesses to get permits and licenses - it's like slashing the throat of a consumer who is already struggling because of the stab wounds of the fees that were there in the first place.  Who decides on these fees anyway?  It appalls me that someone, be it our legislators or governor, can just decide one day "I think I'll raise the taxes for the 30 million people that live here" and those 30 million are powerless to stop it.  Greed - corporate greed and government greed, is part of the problems we have today.  With so much money going to pay for necessities like higher food and gas costs and higher utility bills and medical care, it leaves very little money (if any at all) to be spent by those who make it on discretionary items or on a well-earned vacation.

I have very little sympathy these days for the government and government charities that have made it a point to stick it to the taxpayers over the past few years now that they are facing sharp cuts and deficits.  I also have no sympathy for the companies (like oil companies) who are struggling because they realized record profits at the expense of everyone else only to find that now these people are tapped out and bled dry.  I balance my budget each month and make sure I don't spend more than I make, I shop at Winco instead of Albertsons to have a little extra cash to have fun with, and it's high time these groups learn to live with less as well.

Hopefully someday we will all realize this and get off our collectie butts to do something about it - change our habits so we live beneath our means, vote out politicans who try to take our money, and change laws that require us to sponsor state run charities like welfare that take away the livlihood of those paying for it, etc. - instead of just moaning and whining about it on a blog.

I really, really appreciate everyone's comments and staying with the questions arising from the stimulus package.

"Being free of debt myself AD I give my affirmation to your points for what its worth."

It's worth a lot, Sam, and freedom from debt is indeed a powerful feeling.  I don't enjoy the income of an executive, but I can live the life of a queen just the same because of that freedom.

"I'm willing to send you to Washington, AD.  Maybe you could pound some sense into those in our Capital."

Coming from you, Alicen, that is a compliment.  :)

ProgressivePete, I respect your opinion and appreciate the manner in stating it.

I do not believe that the quick fix will help because what went up (prices, equities, commodities, etc.) as a result of debt-financed economic illusions will have to come down eventually from its unsustainability.

"What I'm waiting for is what he plans to do with the horrendous housing crisis that is making new homeless people every month. I also can't wait until the top tax bracket finally has to pay what they should have been paying for years now."

Whatever befalls us from the stimulus, good or bad, I would be happier if we didn't see it in terms of retaliating against a group of people.  :)

Thank you, Erikbako, Nancy, Ling, and anyone I missed.  :)

There was an article the other day about how some are concerned that people are saving money in traditional savings/CD accounts right now instead of spending or investing in the stock market. Funny, since just a couple of years ago they were saying people weren't saving enough.

I saw that too, Shwaine.

It is a sign of just what a fantasy we have staked our livelihoods on.

Some are moving money from 401k, mutual fund or thrift savings plans. That is a mistake. People are focusing on the dollar amount in their 401k or Mutual fund. Stop doing that. Look at the shares. Right now, if you are contributing, you are buying a lot of shares. When the market recovers, and it will, you will see that investment explode. If you are already in a fund, don't move your money out to a "safer" investment. Right now your loss is only on paper. Don't make it real. KEEP BUYING SHARES! 

And if inflation goes sky high, which it is sure to do, then you will can be making a healthy return on your investments.  Right now you're almost better off just putting it under a mattress.

I see the advantage of playing the existing system in the short run.

For the long run, durable hard goods.  Hard goods.

That includes the most important hard good of all: yourself.  The more that you can do, the more you can do for yourself, as well as being more valuable in your ability to do for others.

AD:  That wasn't just the usual complimentary flattery.  I mean it.  Or, I'm not just whistling Dixie.  Why not run for office?  It's fairly well settled that there are few in D.C. with level heads and who don't owe gobs of money to somebody.  It's obvious you're better qualified than many.  Of course, you'll somehow need to get on a good side of somebody so that you can actually see legislation before it's passed.  Or is that now passe?

(As an afterthought here, is this going to be the last comment?  I just hate that, too.)

So what is your position on voodoo economics;) 

A (edit) fantasy-based cult proven wrong by history.

The problem with giving the money to pay off consumer debt is that consumer debt *ISN'T* the problem.  The problem is that the US economy, having been put through the wringer (and we've only started that process) is in serious danger of deflation, which can feed on itself. 

The best thing to do is put money in the hands of low-income people who will *SPEND* it, priming the economy.  I think just about the worst thing that could be done is to bail out banks with it, but Washington doesn't necessarily listen to me.  I'm somewhat with dril (ach! I hate that!)  but allowing businesses like Bank of America to fail would pull the rest of the country down with them.  They should instead be homeland-ized (since some folks don't like the term "nationalized.")

"Stress-testing" the banks:

http://dealbook.blogs.nytim...

True, we're going to have to find an economy which doesn't rely so heavily on consumer debt for fuel.  One way to start would be to re-create a middle class, carving its income out of the top 10 percent bracket.  In other words, reversing the trend of the past 20 years of so.

(Disclosure:  I owe on two mortgages and a grand total of about $500 on two credit cards which I could pay off tomorrow if need be.)

By the way, leave it to Nobel Prize Winner Paul Krugman to find the most significant comment on the stimulus/jobs bill:  Its acronym appears to be the  "ARRR" Act.  Avast, ye landubbers!  Prepare to be boarded!.

(Side note:  If you haven't seen the opening short subject in "Monty Python and the Meaning of Life"--a wonderful movie on its own--you should rent it just for "The Crimson Permanent Assurance," about an insurance company which *LITERALLY* turns pirate and pillages Wall Street.)

"A Republican cult proven wrong by history."

I've been hoping to keep this free of partisan fingerpointing.  Please oblige.  :)

"The problem is that the US economy, having been put through the wringer (and we've only started that process) is in serious danger of deflation, which can feed on itself."

That deflation could actually be considered a "danger" is a symptom of what a mess we have created for ourselves, and which we need to begin to end, once and for all, as painful as it may be.

Inflation used to be a bad thing, something that eroded our buying power.  Deflation is (or should be) nothing more than a welcome return to the days of lower prices, an undoing of the damage of inflation.

If deflation is seen as a problem, then the seers ought to get their eyes, heads, and fundamental mindsets examined.

I've been hoping to keep this free of partisan fingerpointing.  Please oblige.  :)

 AD, it was intended as a reply in the spirit of the original question.  IOW, just as sarcastic as the query warranted.  However, I have edited my response in reply to your objection, and hope it now meets with your approval.

"Why not run for office?"

Alicen, I couldn't run for local office.  I'm of the wrong religion.

I couldn't run for state office.  I'm of the wrong religion.

I couldn't run for Congress.  I'm of the wrong religion.

And the tabloid media would find out about my lack of shame and inhibitions and bring a practical end to my candidacy before it could ever really get started.  :(

Yikes!  My Spam code was a TOS violation!

RF, thanks.  :)

That deflation could actually be considered a "danger" is a symptom of what a mess we have created for ourselves, 

That deflation could actually be considered a "danger" is indicated by the last time things were this bad, just before Great Depression I. 

A slight inflation is generally seen as the indicator of a healthy economy.  Kind of like an I/C engine getting a little bit hotter as it runs, but not overheating or misfiring.

I couldn't run for state office.  I'm of the wrong religion.

I couldn't run for office either.  I don't *HAVE* a religion.   Or, rather, could run but couldn't be elected.

And the tabloid media would find out about my lack of shame and inhibitions

You could always run as a (edit) fantasy-based candidate.

By the way, getting back to your original analogy, remember that the Berserker machine was in fact defeated, by blowing up a major bank  starship inside it.

AD:  There's only one thing to say:  "SO?!"    : )

P.S.  I thought I was the only one who "read" spam codes. 

"AD:  There's only one thing to say:  "SO?!"    : )"

It's not easy to answer that without breaking my own treaty.  I think you understand the obstacles, however.  :)

Dead on dear,

Leaving ourselves under the charge of nations whose agendas are not our own is putting our own necks in the noose. This is how I have felt for the longest but people just don't get it. It's good to know my political philosophies are not so singular. Carry on my friend.

I'm happy to see you drop by.  :)

You carry on as well; MM.

Oh my this is so fun. Deflation is good! Products have been rediculously overpriced for far too long. Do you guys know that stores usually take a minimum 200% profit on the things they sell? Seeing that come down is just so damn satisfying. And the comment on Mental Health and disability.... unless you understand mental health please do not comment. Thank you