This is the news we've all been waiting and hoping for.  Recovery is on the way.

This is great but I find it troubling that the American people were the first to suffer in the hasty massive firings and will be the last to benefit in receiving jobs.  It's almost as if we're an afterthought in the big scheme of things.  The circulation of money, no matter who does it, is all that matters.

Is a jobless recovery something to celebrate?  What is a recovery without jobs unless you are a stockholder or CEO?

thats funny...i just heard on CNN this morning that unemployment will get into the 10 percent range shortly, and we will continue to lose jobs until late 2010

and that is from the white house

It is good news and the country will ounce back. I hope as individuals we have learned our lesson.

Jfrancais

Maybe it will encourage people to spend a little at Christimas. .  If retail continues to suffer, the recovery will slow and more jobs will be lost.

Is a jobless recovery something to celebrate? 

Not especially--but if McCain had won, we'd be mourning the depression instead.

No matter who won, the economy was so FUBAR'd it could only get better.

If retail continues to suffer, it will force corportions to change their business models.  They have operated at a loss only to fall in the Black during the holidays.  They don't call it Black Friday just because my family decided to go shopping that day.

bailout or no bailout.

Economic collapse or no economic collapse.

People still need and want widgets and doodads.

jfrancais

Companies can't be expected to hire employees if they don't have a profit margin large enough to sustain a workforce. 

Don't expect the horse to push the cart.

Companies can't be expected to hire employees unless it's in their interest.  They don't hire just because they made a profit.  It's business not charity.

This is not an A+B=C equation.

Businesses hire because of the need for increased production

When manufacturing and purchasing picks up, it's in their interest to put more people on the payroll. 

Not necessarilly.  The jobless recovery proves that.

It would not be in their interests if they can sell the same amount of goods make the same or more profits with less payroll.

It's about the Benjamins.

Next comes the job recovery.  Just as I've been explaining.

You can't expect jobs to be created when profits haven't increased.   Why would a company hire workers they can't ,yet, afford.

I thought I was missing something in your argument, but I see from your last post where you're going. 

Rail against companies all you want.  Bottom line is, when they do well, workers do well.

 AUDREY:  planning to hire and invest more in the near future, according to a survey released Monday. When manufacturing and purchasing picks up.  The operative words are "planning" and "future" and "survey" and "when".   Don't count chickens until they have hatched.

SAGE:  I hope as individuals we have learned our lesson. How did we "individuals" cause this bazzlion dollar mess?? Calif. is tanking and WE caused it? NOT!  Politicians raised our sales tax, doubled our car tag tax and they STILL can't seem to get it right? NOT our fault!

RF:  Since Obama if McCain had won, we are we'd be mourning the depression instead. There, fixed it for you.

 AUDREY:  You can't expect jobs to be created when profits haven't increased.   Why would a company hire workers they can't ,yet, afford.  Bottom line is, when they do well, workers do well.

bingo!!!! and how well are they doing...................................nada. and my shopping has decreased and I do most of it on line when I do shop. Which, I was told by a former employee of Gottchalks, is one of the reasons Gott's went under.  On line shopping.

Hey, we just need more Michele Obamas.  She now has hired 26 people to be her attendants...  Maybe she could hire 26 attendents for her kids.  Then she and Barack could have more babies, and then hire more attendents for their kids...

That is around the norm for the staff of a First Lady.

The lesson is one of personal financial conservatism.

 Bottom line is, when they do well, workers do well.

Tell that to the good workers of Flint, Michigan.  Businesses were doing well and they still lost jobs.  If they were lucky, they were able to get a job in the credit collection agency call center, which shut down a couple of years ago.

Was there less of a need for bill collectors?

I'm not railing just telling it like it is.

Companies don't care about you or job creation.  It's about the Benjamins, baby.

Unions made the auto companies in Michigan what they are today.

Both sides have culpability, Mexico.

The union could have done everything "right" and the plant would have still left based on the realities of Globalism.  It made business sense to leave.

Auto companies in Michigan made them what they are today.  They overpaid for labor.  They outsourced for cheaper labor.  They had an inefficient business model.  They ran to the government for welfare.

The unions didn't break them.  And if they did, they have a bad business model.

When the manufacturing picks back up, the Chinese will profit, not America. The trasportation industry will get a small bump, but on the railroad, the hiring we are planning(125 jobs systemwide in the signal dept)won't compensate for the may hundreds lost in operating, as the jobs are to create manpower for the unfunded mandate imposed by the FRA to install Positve Train Control by 2015, at which time most of those jobs will be cut off.

10% unemployment WILL become a reality and the trillions of dollars in debt will not be affected in a positive way by the so called recovery.

As the left was so fond of telling the right during the Bush years.."Go ahead..It's only Kool-Aid"

Labor unions were instrumental in creating the great American middle class that led to the prosperity of the 1950s. Power corrupts and they lost sight of their principles in pursuit of more power. Companies lowered manufacturing standards (planned obsolescence) and workers no longer felt pride in their work. When faced with competition from overseas, companies farmed out the work instead of meeting the challenge. We are all to blame.

 When the manufacturing picks back up, the Chinese will profit, not America.

That's right.  Who hates the commies, now? 

Got to love that old trickle down religion...you will get a trickle if you wait around long enough.  China gets a trickle, too.

That is the very reason we must give high priority to environmental jobs and to create new industries, if we don't high unemployment will be the norm.

Witters

Neither the article nor I said that we were in a full economic recovery.  We're at the beginnings of the recovery.   

The economic failure began in 2005 when lending institutions gave mortgages to every Tom, Dick and Harry who asked for one.   It was a phony housing boom (fed by deregulated banks).  The bust was anything but phony. This crisis has been years in the making and will be months, maybe years before the recovery is complete.

This is the first positive economic news that we've had in four years.   I'm going to enjoy it.

Neither the article nor I said that we were in a full economic recovery.  We're at the beginnings of the recovery.  

My point exactly Audrey. There is NO recovery from this unless or until jobs are regained and that is not going to happen any time soon

This crisis has been years in the making and will be months, maybe years before the recovery is complete.

BINGO!!!!  IF ever.  That said until the government stops playing "nanny" and bailing people out it will only get worse as more and more will come to depend on and rely on the government to keep doing so.  When all is government owned due to all the "bailouts" then it will be too late to take back our country. WE will all be under government run businesses and at the pleasure of the government. We will be living as many countries do now, the government telling if your child will go to college or be a laborer. What kind of and size of apartment (not house) you can live in, etc.  Don't think it can happen?  keep your head buried in the sand and when you come up for air your free air will be gone.

Wow!  what a lot of negativism there is on what I thought was a positive blog.  

This is not the "we're American and we can weather anything"  attitude of previous generations.   You guys go ahead and bash businesses.  Bash Michele Obama, retails stores, Barack Obama, and anything else that comes to mind.  I feel sorry for you that you've forgotten the fundamentals that made our country the best damn country in the world. 

Sometimes a positive attitude is all that separates success from failure.

Suck lemons, the recovery will happen with or without you.

And Witters it was when the government stopped regulating banks that banks started giving out sub prime loans and participating in extremely risky trading.

Government oversight is not, always, a bad thing.

Audry, on the blog I just posted about Understanding the Right, I think I found the answer. Fair and balanced Fox is almost totally negative, as is conservative talk radio. It affects their outlook. The recovery is coming along, it might hit a few bumps but we will make it.

Audrey your 11:25 am posts ROCKS!

Thanks Sage....I really needed that.   :)

Not negativity - reality.  Guess we have to agree to disagree.  IF things go the way you seem to think they will, I will publicly apologize to all - however, IF things go the way they quite possibly could, I will expect a public apology :-) 

Fanny Mae & Freddie Mac AND government people telling them to get poverty people into homes is what went wrong. The rest of the real estate people just rode in on the coat tails to make a "killing" if you will.

sucking lemons only goes well with tequila!!!  I prefer strawberry daiquiris!!!

I have not bashed Michelle Obama or the retail stores. What made our country great was NOT big government it was the people working hard for what they wanted/needed. No welfare, no unions,just the every day to day people.

  I feel sorry for you that you've forgotten the fundamentals that made our country the best damn country in the world. 

How right you are.  Amazing how Michelle Obama is only proud of her country now, and not in the previous 43 years of her life that the USA was the best damn country in the world....I feel sorry for her.

 Guess we have to agree to disagree.

I hear ya Witters. 

The strange thing is, I'm getting smacked from both sides.  LOL

The bump in the economy is artificial and will not last. A Fox News business analyst said the same this morning, saying it's just folks jacking up their credit card debt and seasonal hiring that are propping up this momentary giddiness.

Just posted an article on Vox Day's book about the looming return of the Great Depression: http://people.bakersfield.c...

Might want to read infowar's latest article - makes a whole lot of sense to me.   He/she provides sources with his/her comments and postings.

Suck lemons, the recovery will happen with or without you.

It's ironic you say that.  I've made more money in the first 9 months of this year than I have in any other year of my life.  It's not about me though.  I wish people would just see it for what it is and take advantage.  The last thing we should do is cheer on a jobless recovery.  That is not recovery it's a way of saying big corporations have gotten their footing and they are ready to sell you stuff again.  That's no different than the factory workers at GM cheering as the last car was built in the plant.  What was there to cheer about with no jobs?  That's not much different than indentured servitude and aimlessly taking on the cause of your feudal lord.

It's not about bashing businesses.  Hopefully they hire and Americans get jobs but just know the American people are not their priority.  They will lay you off in the best of economies.  The proof is in the pudding, not my business bashing parade.

I'm so happy for you.

The recovery is coming, like it or not, and I have enough optimism in this country that I believe we will move in a new direction to create jobs, read Thomas Friedman's Hot, Flat, and Crowded for a blueprint.

I have no optimism but moving in a new direction would be nice.  The recovery is already here if you haven't heard, unfortunately it's not about you or the American people.

But the Dow is up!! (sigh)

Guess we can all go back to having Credit Cards and mortgages that we'll never pay off.

Capitalism won't work for you if you don't have capital...

I like Friedman's idea's.  He has good perspective on domestic policy's role in globalization.  I think I read one of his books in grad school.

even if your company starts doing better, and needs to ship product, transportation is going to go through the roof, when the CARB rules of AB32 are inacted, and most trucking firms either move out of state or go belly up trying to update their fleet

learn, my good friend, that is called capitalism, don't you love it?

  It affects their outlook

I just started watching Fox about two months ago.  I don't pay attention to those clowns (to include CNN, MSNBC, or Fox) I've been studying and researching effects of Globalism for about 7 years.

Malcolm X, Chomsky, Samuel P. Huntington, Locke, Grotius, Rouseau, Morgenthau, Nye, and Thucydides, to name a few, affect my outlook.

This is economic feudalism no matter how much we deny or spin.

We're serfs serving the economic lords hoping for a pittance in the name of economic recovery.

It's always interesting to see a Liberal blame Fox, Beck, Rush et al for our outlook and position.  The reality, in my case, is that IF I turn on a TV News program it's 17, 23, 29 and sometimes 9.  Whatever it lands on is what I watch.  IF I turn on cable news I flip channels to see who is saying what.  I dropped CNN only because of that idiot reporter who practically assaulted a viewer at a rally.

Most of my views were formed when I was young and developed from there.  They are drawn from what I believe in and a long lifetime of observation and experience.  It's the cowards easy way out to blame news programs for everything a person believes in.  After all, they have to blame SOMETHING for people disagreeing with them so it must be TV, Beck, Rush.

I was anti abortion long before I ever had cable.  I was pro death penalty long before most of you cut your permanent teeth.  I could go on but I'm tired.  Tired of trying to make radical lefties understand that some of us have a brain and actually use it.  Tired of being called names like hater because I don't go along with their views.  Tired of telling them that I don't care what they believe, they have a right to it but not getting the same courtesy.

It probably never occured to those people that what they are asking is for me to discard all my beliefs and just listen to them.  THEY will tell me what I need to believe.  All this as if following blindly behind any leader isn't just as bad as another.

No,, sorry,  I won't give up what I believe in any more than they will.

Fox is not affecting an outlook moreso than they are preaching to the choir.  How many dissenters tie themselves to the couch and tolerate it on a day to day basis?  You just switch it to Olberman and let him preach.