We have neighbors to the north of us separated by a jointly owned fence.  They are pit bull fanciers and have always had one or two roaming around their back yard.  In the course of the last 15 years, their dogs have attacked:

1. One of our Siamese cats ($500) vet bill

2.  One of our small dachshunds (($2,000) vet bill

3.  And my husband.

They paid 1/3 of the dachshund bill but nothing for the cat.

When the dogs got in our yard the last time (three years ago),  it was pitch black out side.  It was hard to see what was happening but when the dogs jumped back into their own yard my husband went out to repair the break in the fence.  He had his gun with him.  As he was squatting on the ground trying to find the loose board in the flower bed, the dogs started to charge back through the break and attack him.   He raised his shotgun and killed the first one trying to come through.  The second one ran off the farthermost part of his own yard.

One of the neighbors called the police about shots fired.  And sure enough we had the helicopter circling over our house for 15 minutes shining their light  directly on us.  I was mortified.  I told my husband to get his shoes and his coat because he was probably going to "go down town".  As it turned out, my husband wasn't cited.  In fact the cop told him he did the right thing to protect himself.  They advised the neighbor to keep his dogs confined.

Since, the neighbor didn't fix his side of the fence after my dachshund or the cat was injured, I  thought for sure that he would fix it now that he had lost one of his dogs.  But I was wrong.

Last summer I paid to have the entire length of the fence replaced with redwood.

All was fine until 11am this morning when I looked out side and saw 2 pit bulls running around my patio.  I opened the french door, stepped outside and shouted at them to go home.   The white male turned around and chased me back through the door and lunged at  the glass door as I closed and bolted it.  Then he jumped up on the glass and continued to growl and bark at me.

We have 5 cats and a chihuahua.  I yelled at Rose and my husband to check and make sure that all the animals were in the house.  Thankfully they were, but the situation was serious for the three dogs in the yard to the east of us.  The pit bulls were doing their best to break through into that yard at get at those dogs (one of them a puppy).

My husband told me to call 911,  which I did.  They transferred me to Animal Control.  Animal Control kept asking me how dangerous the dogs were.  And I kept saying, ""they would have killed me if I hadn't made it back into the house and now their trying to break through the other neighbors fence and kill their dogs."  I told her that children would be coming home from school soon and if those dogs got out of our backyard somehow, all of those children would be in danger.  She said they would send someone out immediately.

For the next hour the dogs roamed around my back yard, occasionally lunging at the kitchen window or french door trying to get in.  I was worried sick about the dogs to the east of us because the pit bulls were working hard to get into their fence.  In the meantime my chihuahua, Baby, was confined to my bedroom.  She was going crazy, wanting out so she could mix it up with the pit bulls.   Don't you just love chihuahuas.

Just as the Animal Control showed up, the pits' owner showed up too.  He was at the back fence line looking at the break in the fence.  His dogs immediately ran to him and disappeared through the gap as Rose let the animal control officer in through the front door.

I was boiling mad and stalked out to the fence (now safe) and yelled, "Hey, your dogs tried to kill me and they would have done it if I hadn't made it back to the house in time."  He replied "I'm sorry".   And I (with my usual witty repartee) said "Sorry isn't going to get it,  Buster"!

Then Rose and my husband took turns yelling at him.  And finally the Animal Control told him what his options were (few).   Then she left. 

I realized how badly my legs were shaking and how tired and hungry I was.  It's amazing what 1 1/2 hours of trembling will do to you.    That was too much excitement for this old lady.

I wonder if that guy will do something about securing his dogs now?

THE CASCADES - THE RHYTHM OF THE FALLING RAIN

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

SYDNEY (Reuters) - A dog was hailed as a hero on Sunday after it risked its life to save a litter of newborn kittens from a house fire, rescuers said.

Stores Who Will Say "Merry Christmas" This Year:

Target
Kohl's
Macy's
TJX stores (TJ Maxx, Marshall's, HomeGoods, A.J. Wright, Bob's stores)
Walgreen's
Wal-Mart
J.C. Penney's
Dillard's
Joann Fabrics
Linens 'N Things
K-Mart
Chick-fil-A
Hobby Lobby
Michael's
Farmer Jack (grocery)
Stater Brothers (grocery)
Kroger's
Denny's
In-N-Out Burger
Christian Brothers Automotive
Bath & Body Works

Stores Who Will Say "Happy Holidays" This Year:

Best Buy - steadfastly refuses to mention Christmas
Home Depot - still hiding behind the "holiday" trees
Lowe's - clerks will only say "Merry Christmas" when it is customer initiated
L.L. Bean - one Christmas catalog issued, all others holiday-centered
Plow & Hearth - you might find Christmas in the fine print
Crate & Barrel
Eddie Bauer - doesn't want to offend anyone
Toys 'R' Us
Banana Republic
Bed, Bath & Beyond
Dick's Sporting Goods
The Gap
Safeway
 

People Who Don't Gve a Rats*** What Stores Say:

AUDREY B

Pardon me if this has already been blogged, but I couldn't resist it.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

CBS/ AP) Law enforcement agents have broken up a plot by two neo-Nazi skinheads to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 88 black people, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives said Monday.

In court records unsealed Monday in U.S. District Court in Jackson, Tenn., federal agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target a predominantly African-American high school in a murder spree that was to begin in Tennessee. Agents said the skinheads did not identify the school by name.

Jim Cavanaugh, special agent in charge of ATF's Nashville field office, said the two men planned to kill 88 people, including 14 African-Americans by beheading. The numbers 88 and 14 are symbolic in the white supremacist community.

The men also sought to go on a national killing spree after the Tennessee murders, with Obama as its final target, Cavanaugh told The Associated Press.

"They said that would be their last, final act - that they would attempt to kill Sen. Obama," Cavanaugh said. "They didn't believe they would be able to do it, but that they would get killed trying."

But authorities say the men showed no evidence of actually trying to carry out an assassination - they did not have Obama's schedules, or specific plans to attend any event, reports CBS News correspondent Bob Orr

CBS station KDKA reporter Jon Delano in Pittsburgh caught up with the candidate on the campaign trail Monday night and asked him about the plot.

"I think what has been striking in this campaign is the degree to which these kinds of hate groups have been marginalized," Obama told KDKA. "That's not what America is about and that is not what our future is."

Obama also expressed confidence in the Secret Service and its ability to protect him.

The men, Daniel Cowart, 20, of Bells, Tenn., and Paul Schlesselman 18, of Helena-West Helena, Ark., are being held without bond. Agents seized a rifle, a sawed-off shotgun and three pistols from the men when they were arrested. Authorities alleged the two men were preparing to break into a gun shop to steal more.

The two men were arrested Oct. 22 by the Crockett County, Tenn., Sheriff's Office. "Once we arrested the defendants and suspected they had violated federal law, we immediately contacted federal authorities," said Crockett County Sheriff Troy Klyce.

Attorney Joe Byrd, who has been hired to represent Cowart, did not immediately return a call seeking comment Monday. Messages left on two phone numbers listed under Cowart's name were not immediately returned.

No telephone number for Schlesselman in Helena-West Helena could be found immediately.

Cowart and Schlesselman are charged with possessing an unregistered firearm, conspiring to steal firearms from a federally licensed gun dealer, and threatening a candidate for president.

The investigation is continuing, and more charges are possible, Cavanaugh said.

 

(CBS)

The court records say Cowart (left) and Schlesselman also bought nylon rope and ski masks to use in a robbery or home invasion to fund their spree, during which they allegedly planned to go from state to state and kill people.

For the Obama plot, the legal documents show, Cowart and Schlesselman "planned to drive their vehicle as fast as they could toward Obama shooting at him from the windows."

"Both individuals stated they would dress in all white tuxedos and wear top hats during the assassination attempt," the court complaint states. "Both individuals further stated they knew they would and were willing to die during this attempt."

 

(CBS)

Cavanaugh said there's no evidence - so far - that others were willing to assist Cowart and Schlesselman (left) with the plot.

He said authorities took the threats very seriously.

"They seemed determined to do it," Cavanaugh said. "Even if they were just to try it, it would be a trail of tears around the South."

The court documents say the two men met about a month ago on the Internet and found common ground in their shared "white power" and "skinhead" philosophy.

The numbers 14 and 88 are symbols in skinhead culture, referring to a 14-word phrase attributed to an imprisoned white supremacist: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children" and to the eighth letter of the alphabet, H. Two "8"s or "H"s stand for "Heil Hitler."

Helena-West Helena, on the Mississippi River in east Arkansas' Delta, is in one of the nation's poorest regions, trailing even parts of Appalachia in its standard of living. Police Chief Fred Fielder said he had never heard of Schlesselman.

However, the reported threat of attacking a school filled with black students worried Fielder. Helena-West Helena, with a population of 12,200, is 66 percent black. "Predominantly black school, take your pick," he said.

 

Alaskan paper snubs Palin to endorse Obama

Given, a man with moderate intellect, a moral standard not higher than the average, some rhetorical affluence and great glibness of speech, what is the career in which, without the aid of birth or money, he may most easily attain power and reputation?  Where is that Goshen of mediocrity in which a smattering of science and learning will pass for profound instruction, where platitudes will be accepted as wisdom, bigoted narrowness as holy zeal, unctuous egoism as God-given piety?  Let such a man become an evangelical preacher......

In an effort to get voice to the "other side", this will be the first in a series of several blogs on the beliefs of atheists.

This from today's paper.

The republican VP nominee, as Alaska Governor, charged the state for her children to travel with her, including to events where they were not invited, and later amended expense reports to specify that they were on offical business, according to an Associated Press investigation. 

The charges included costs for hotel rooms and commerical flights for three daughters to join Palin to watch their father in a snowmobile race, and a trip to NY, where the governor attended a five hour conference and stayed with 17 year old Bristol for five days and four nights in a luxury hotel. 

In all, Palin has charged the state $21,012 for her three daughters (64 one way and 12 round trip) commerical flights since she took office in Dec 06.   In some cases she has charged the state for hotel rooms for the girls.

Alaska law does not specifically address expenses for a governor's children.  The law allows for payment of expenses for anyone conducting office state business. 

State Finance Director, Kim Garnero, said she has not reviewd the Palins' travel expense forms, so she could not say whether the daughters' travel with their mother would meet the definition of official business.

Democratic Underground

Fixing the Nation's Health Care System:

More than 19 million women are uninsured in this country, and women are more likely than men to delay or not get medical care because of high costs. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are committed to ensuring that all Americans have health care coverage by the end of his first term in office.

Empowering Women to Prevent HIV/AIDS:

In the United States, the percentage of women diagnosed with AIDS has quadrupled over the last twenty years. Barack Obama has been a leader in the global fight against AIDS. He introduced the Microbicide Development Act, which will accelerate the development of products that empower women in the battle against AIDS. Microbicides are a class of products currently under development that women apply topically to prevent transmission of HIV and other infections.

Supporting Research into Women's Health:

Heart disease is the leading cause of death among women, accounting for nearly 39 percent of all female deaths.  Women are also more likely than men to report having arthritis, asthma, autoimmune diseases, and depression.. Barack Obama supports legislation to encourage research that will examine gender and health disparities.
 

Fighting Cancer:

Ovarian cancer is the fourth-leading cause of cancer-related death among women in the United States. Because . Barack Obama is an original co-sponsor of Johanna's Law. Signed into law in January 2007, the law will educate women and increase awareness of ovarian cancer.  Obama helped pass legislation in the Illinois State Senate to expand insurance coverage for mammograms.

Reducing Health Risks Due to Mercury Pollution:

More than five million women of childbearing age have high levels of toxic mercury in their blood and more than 630,000 newborns are born every year at risk.. Since the primary sources of mercury in fish are power plant emissions that contaminate our water, regulation of utility emissions is essential to protecting the health of our children. Barack Obama introduced two pieces of legislation to significantly reduce the amount of mercury that is deposited in oceans, lakes, and rivers, which in turn would reduce the amount of mercury in fish.

Supporting Stem Cell Research:

Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that we owe it to the American public to explore the potential of stem cells to treat the millions of people suffering from debilitating and life-threatening diseases.  He is a co-sponsor of the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007, which would allow research of human embryonic stem cells derived from embryos donated (with consent) from in vitro fertilization clinics.

REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE

Supports a Woman's Right to Choose:

Barack Obama understands that abortion is a divisive issue, and respects those who disagree with him. However, he has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving women's rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as President. He opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's decision in that case.

 

Preventing Unintended Pregnancy:

Barack Obama is an original co-sponsor of legislation to expand access to contraception, health information and preventive services to help reduce unintended pregnancies. Introduced in January 2007, the Prevention First Act will increase funding for family planning and comprehensive sex education that teaches both abstinence and safe sex methods. The Act will also end insurance discrimination against contraception, improve awareness about emergency contraception, and provide compassionate assistance to rape victims.

 

PREVENTING VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

Reducing Domestic Violence:

One in four women will experience domestic violence in her lifetime. Family violence accounted for 11 percent of all violence between 1998 and 2002. Barack Obama introduced legislation to combat domestic violence by providing $25 million a year for partnerships between domestic violence prevention organizations and Fatherhood or Marriage programs to train staff in domestic violence services, provide services to families affected by domestic violence, and to develop best practices in domestic violence prevention.

 

Strengthening Domestic Violence Laws:

Approximately 1,400 women a year – four every day – die in the United States as a result of domestic violence. And 132,000 women report that they have been victims of a rape or attempted rape, and it is estimated that an even greater number have been raped, but do not report it. Senator Obama co-sponsored and helped reauthorize the Violence Against Women Act. Signed into law in January 2006, the bill funds and helps communities, nonprofit organizations, and police combat domestic violence, sexual assault, and stalking. The legislation establishes a sexual assault services program and provides education grants to prevent domestic violence.

 

Fighting Gender Violence Abroad:

The genocide in Darfur has had particularly devastating consequences for women. Tens of thousands of women have been killed, raped, and displaced since the conflict began in 2003. Barack Obama has been a leading voice in Washington urging the end of genocide in Sudan. He worked with Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) on the Darfur Peace and Accountability Act, a version of which was signed into law. Obama has traveled to the United Nations to meet with Sudanese officials and visited refugee camps on the Chad-Sudan border to raise international awareness of the ongoing humanitarian disaster there. He also worked with Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) to secure $20 million for the African Union peacekeeping mission.

 

ECONOMIC ISSUES

Fighting for Pay Equity:

Despite decades of progress, women still make only 77 cents for every dollar a man makes. , Obama cosponsored and voted for the Illinois Equal Pay Act, which provided 330,000 more women protection from pay discrimination. In the U.S. Senate, Obama joined a bipartisan group of Senators to introduce the Fair Pay Restoration Act, a bill to overturn the Supreme Court's recent 5-4 decision in Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company. The bill would restore the clear intent of Congress that workers must have a reasonable time to file a pay discrimination claim after they become victims of discriminatory compensation. Obama is also a cosponsor of Senator Tom Harkin's (D-IA) Fair Pay Act. As president, Obama will continue to promote paycheck equity and close the wage gap between men and women.

Expanding Paid Sick Days: Today, three-out-of-four low-wage workers have no paid sick leave. It is fundamentally unfair that a single mom playing by the rules can get fired or lose wages because her child gets sick. Barack Obama and Joe Biden support efforts to guarantee workers seven days of paid sick leave per year, a moderate proposal that should not impose too onerous a burden on employers.

 

Investing in Women-Owned Small Businesses:

Women are majority owners of more than 28 percent of U.S. businesses, but head less than 4 percent of venture-capital-backed firms. Women business owners are more likely than white male business owners to have their loan applications denied. Barack Obama and Joe Biden encourage investing in women-owned businesses, providing more support to women business owners and reducing discrimination in lending.
 

Encouraging Retirement Saving:

• Create Automatic Workplace Pensions: The Obama-Biden retirement security plan will automatically enroll workers in a workplace pension plan. Under this plan, employers who do not currently offer a retirement plan, will be required to enroll their employees in a direct-deposit IRA account that is compatible to existing direct-deposit payroll systems. Employees may opt-out if they choose. Experts estimate that this program will increase the savings participation rate for low and middle-income workers from its current 15 percent level to around 80 percent.
• Expand Retirement Savings Incentives for Working Families: Obama and Biden will ensure savings incentives are fair to all workers by creating a generous savings match for low and middle-income Americans. His plan will match 50 percent of the first $1,000 of savings for families that earn less than $75,000. The savings match will be automatically deposited into designated personal accounts. Over 80 percent of these savings incentives will go to new savers.

Caring for Women Veterans:

There are 1.7 million women veterans today, a number that is increasing every day. The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) that was built to care for World War II veterans is not ready to handle the influx of women veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan.  Obama also introduced legislation to fight homelessness among veterans, with a special focus on treating women who may have been victims of sexual trauma. Along with Senator Claire McCaskill, Obama has also co-sponsored legislation to provide funding for additional caseworkers and mental health counselors, a women's mental health treatment program, and a comprehensive mental health study of returning soldiers.
 

POVERTY

Fighting Poverty:

Of the 37 million Americans living below the poverty line, approximately 14.6 million are women — a staggering number equal to the combined populations of Iowa, Indiana, and Wisconsin. And nearly 13 million children are living in poverty, a rise of 1.3 million since 2000. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are committed to a renewed effort to tackle the underlying problems that cause poverty.

 

Raising the Minimum Wage:

Women are the largest group of beneficiaries from a minimum wage increase: 60 percent of the workers who would benefit from an increase to $7.25 are women. As President, Barack Obama would raise the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour by 2011, index it to inflation, and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers have a living wage.

EDUCATION

Protecting Title IX:

For 35 years, Title IX has been a bulwark against sex discrimination against students and employees at all levels of education. Obama and Biden will fight to make sure women have equal opportunities and access from pre-kindergarten through graduate school.
 

Promoting Women in Math and Science:

Women constitute 45 percent of the workforce in the U.S., but hold just 12 percent of science and engineering jobs in business and industry. Women also make up just 9 percent of the recipients of engineering-related bachelor's degrees. Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that every student should have equal access to education in math, science, and technology in order to compete on a global scale.

 

Remember we're Americans first and  Democrats and  Republicans second.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Barack Obama’s tax plan delivers broad-based tax relief to middle class families and cuts taxes for small businesses and companies that create jobs in America, while restoring fairness to our tax code and returning to fiscal responsibility. Coupled with Obama’s commitment to invest in key areas like health, clean energy, innovation and education, his tax plan will help restore bottom-up economic growth that helps create good jobs in America and empowers all families achieve the American dream.

Obama’s Comprehensive Tax Policy Plan for America will:

• Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.
• Provide generous tax cuts for low- and middle-income seniors, homeowners, the uninsured, and families sending a child to college or looking to save and accumulate wealth.
• Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses, cut corporate taxes for firms that invest and create jobs in the United States, and provide tax credits to reduce the cost of healthcare and to reward investments in innovation.
• Dramatically simplify taxes by consolidating existing tax credits, eliminating the need for millions of senior citizens to file tax forms, and enabling as many as 40 million middle-class Americans to do their own taxes in less than five minutes without an accountant.

Under the Obama Plan:

• Middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will pay tax rates that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.
• Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact, dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut.
• Obama’s plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP). The Obama tax plan is a net tax cut – his tax relief for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000. Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary spending, Obama will pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit.

Impact of the Obama Tax Plan

Who -  Married Couple making $75,000 with 2 children 1 of whom is in college - Tax Cut  $3,700 includes $1,000 Making Work Pay, $500 Universal Mortgage, $4,000 College Credit net of current College Credit

Who - Married Couple Making $90,000  - Tax Cut  $1,000

Who - Single Parent making $40,000 with 2 young children and childcare expenses - Tax Cut  $2,100

Who - 70 year old widow making $35,000 - Tax cut  $1,900

larger view

If I could be led to Chtist, it would be  through him.

Steve Dale Evans
(September 11, 1948 - October 4, 2008)

Part of his obituary

Steve came from a musical family and passed on that tradition to his family, in honor of his 60th birthday. His daughters coordinated a concert. Steve sang at church and in the community with his wife and served as pastor at Carrington of Shafter. Steve was a member of the Shafter Christian Fellowship and served on the church board. Steve worshipped the Lord with all his heart and during the last two years of his life, made it his mission and purpose to let people know that Jesus loved them.

Before we spend the next week accusing each other's candidate of lying, let's look at what FACT CHECK.org has determined about the accuracey of last night's statements.

If you still have a problem, you can argue with them.

Palin Trips Up on Troop Levels
 

Palin got her numbers wrong on troop levels when she said "and with the surge that has worked, we're now down to pre-surge numbers in Iraq."

The surge was announced in January 2007, at which point there were 132,000 troops in Iraq, according to the Brookings Institute Iraq Index. As of September 2008, that number was 146,000. President Bush recently announced that another 8,000 would be coming home by February of next year. But even then, there still would be 6,000 more troops in Iraq than there were when the surge began.

Biden Fudges on Troop Funding
 

Biden defended Obama's vote against a troop-funding bill, claiming that McCain voted "the exact same way."

Palin: Barack Obama voted against funding troops there after promising that he would not do so…He turned around under political pressure and he voted against funding the troops. ...

Biden: John McCain voted the exact same way. John McCain voted against
funding the troops because of an amendment he voted against had a timeline
in it to draw down American troops. And John said I'm not going to fund
the troops if in fact there's a time line.

As we've pointed out before, the squabble refers to a pair of 2007 votes on war funding. Obama voted for a version of the bill that included language calling for withdrawing troops from Iraq. Biden is simply wrong to say that McCain voted against that bill; he was absent and didn’t vote at all. McCain did oppose the bill, and he urged President Bush to veto it. Bush did. Obama then voted against the same bill without withdrawal language. He had voted yes on at least 10 other war funding bills prior to that single 2007 no vote.

Palin's False Tax Claims
 

Palin repeated a false claim about Barack Obama's tax proposal:

Palin: Barack Obama even supported increasing taxes as late as last year for those families making only $42,000 a year. That's a lot of middle income average American families to increase taxes on them. I think that is the way to kill jobs and to continue to harm our economy.

Obama did not in fact vote to increase taxes on "families" making as little as $42,000 per year. What Obama actually voted for was a budget resolution that called for returning the 25 percent tax bracket to its pre-Bush tax cut level of 28 percent. That could have affected an individual with no children making as little as $42,000. But a couple would have had to earn $83,000 to be affected and a family of four at least $90,000. The resolution would not have raised taxes on its own, without additional legislation, and, as we've noted before, there is no such tax increase in Obama's tax plan. (The vote took place on March 14 of this year, not last year as Palin said.)

Palin also repeated the exaggeration that Obama voted 94 times to increase taxes. That number includes seven votes that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on corporations or affluent individuals; 23 votes that were against tax cuts; and 17 that came on just 7 different bills. She also claimed that Biden and Obama voted for "the largest tax increase in history." Palin is referring here to the Democrats' 2008 budget proposal, which would indeed have resulted in about $217 billion in higher taxes over two years. That's a significant increase. But measured as a percentage of the nation's economic output, or gross domestic product, the yardstick that most economists prefer, the 2008 budget proposal would have been the third-largest since 1968, and it's not even in the top 10 since 1940.

Biden's False Defense

Biden denied that Obama supported increasing taxes for families making $42,000 a year – but then falsely claimed that McCain had cast an identical vote.

Biden: Barack Obama did not vote to raise taxes. The vote she's referring to, John McCain voted the exact same way. It was a budget procedural vote. John McCain voted the same way. It did not raise taxes.

Biden was correct only to the extent that the resolution Obama supported would not by itself have increased taxes; it was a vote on a budget resolution that set revenue and spending targets. But he's wrong to say McCain voted the same way. The Obama campaign attempted to justify Biden's remark by pointing to a different vote, on a Senate amendment, that took place March 13. The amendment passed 99-1, with only Democratic Sen. Russ Feingold dissenting. It would have preserved some of Bush's tax cuts for lower-income people. The vote on the budget resolution in question, however, came in the wee hours of March 14 and was a mostly party-line tally, 51-44, with Obama in favor and McCain not voting.

Palin's Health Care Hooey

Palin claimed that McCain's health care plan would be "budget-neutral," costing the government nothing.

Palin: He's proposing a $5,000 tax credit for families so that they can get out there and they can purchase their own health care coverage. That's a smart thing to do. That's budget neutral. That doesn't cost the government anything ... a $5,000 health care credit through our income tax, that's budget neutral.

The McCain campaign hasn't released an estimate of how much the plan would cost, but independent experts contradict Palin's claim of a cost-free program.

The Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan, which at its peak would cover 5 million of the uninsured, would increase the deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years. Obama's plan, which would cover 34 million of the uninsured, would cost $1.6 trillion over that time period.

The nonpartisan U.S. Budget Watch's fiscal voter guide estimates that McCain's tax credit would increase the deficit by somewhere between $288 billion to $364 billion by the year 2013, and that making employer health benefits taxable would bring in between $201 billion to $274 billion in revenue. That nets out to a shortfall of somewhere between $14 billion to $163 billion – for that year alone.

Palin also said that Obama’s plan would be "universal government run" health care and that health care would be "taken over by the feds." That's not the case at all. As we’ve said before, Obama’s plan would not replace or remove private insurance, or require people to enroll in a public plan. It would increase the offerings of publicly funded health care.

McCain in Spain?

Biden said that McCain had refused to meet with the government of Spain,
but McCain made no such definite statement.

Biden: The last point I'll make, John McCain said as recently as a couple of weeks ago he wouldn't even sit down with the government of Spain, a NATO ally that has troops in Afghanistan with us now. I find that incredible.

In a September 17 interview on Radio Caracol Miami, McCain appeared confused when asked whether he would meet with President Zapatero of Spain. He responded that "I would be willing to meet with those leaders who are our friends and want to work with us in a cooperative fashion," but then started talking about leaders in Latin America. He did not commit to meeting with Zapatero, but it wasn't clear he'd understood the question.

But the McCain campaign denied that their candidate was confused.
According to our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, campaign adviser Randy Scheunemann e-mailed CNN and the Washington Post the next day, saying that McCain's reluctance to commit to a meeting with Zapatero was a policy decision.

Scheunemann, September 2008: The questioner asked several times about Senator McCain's willingness to meet Zapatero — and id'd him in the question so there is no doubt Senator McCain knew exactly to whom the question referred. Senator McCain refused to commit to a White House meeting with President Zapatero in this interview.

That's not a refusal to meet with Zapatero, as Biden said. It's simply a refusal to commit himself one way or the other.

Palin's Small Business Balderdash
 

Palin repeated a falsehood that the McCain campaign has peddled, off and on, for some time:

Palin: But when you talk about Barack's plan to tax increase affecting only those making $250,000 a year or more, you're forgetting millions of small businesses that are going to fit into that category. So they're going to be the ones paying higher taxes thus resulting in fewer jobs being created and less productivity.

As we reported June 23, it's simply untrue that "millions" of small business owners will pay higher federal income taxes under Obama's proposal. According to an analysis by the independent Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, several hundred thousand small business owners, at most, would have incomes high enough to be affected by the higher rates on income, capital gains and dividends that Obama proposes. That counts as "small business owners" even those who merely have some sideline income from such endeavors as freelance writing, speaking or running rental properties, and who get the bulk of their income from employment elsewhere.

Defense Disagreements
 

Biden and Palin got into a tussle about military recommendations in Afghanistan:

Biden: The fact is that our commanding general in Afghanistan said today that a surge – the surge principles used in Iraq will not – well, let me say this again now – our commanding general in Afghanistan said the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan, not Joe Biden, our commanding general in Afghanistan. He said we need more troops. We need government-building. We need to spend more money on the infrastructure in Afghanistan.

Palin: Well, first, McClellan did not say definitively the surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. Certainly, accounting for different conditions in that different country and conditions are certainly different. We have NATO allies helping us for one, and even the geographic differences are huge but the counterinsurgency principles could work in Afghanistan. McClellan didn't say anything opposite of that. The counterinsurgency strategy going into Afghanistan, clearing, holding, rebuilding, the civil society and the infrastructure can work in Afghanistan.

Point Biden. To start, Palin got newly appointed Gen. David D. McKiernan's name wrong when she called him McClellan. And, more important, Gen. McKiernan clearly did say that surge principles would not work in Afghanistan. As the Washington Post reported:

Washington Post: "The word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge,' " McKiernan stressed, saying that what is required is a "sustained commitment" to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution.

However, it is worth noting that McKiernan also said that Afghanistan would need an infusion of American troops "as quickly as possible."

Killing Afghan Civilians?

Palin said that Obama had accused American troops of doing nothing but killing civilians, a claim she called "reckless" and "untrue."

Palin: Now, Barack Obama had said that all we're doing in Afghanistan is air-raiding villages and killing civilians. And such a reckless, reckless comment and untrue comment, again, hurts our cause.

Obama did say that troops in Afghanistan were killing civilians. Here’s the whole quote, from a campaign stop in New Hampshire:

Obama (August 2007): We’ve got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we’re not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.

The Associated Press fact-checked this one, and found that in fact U.S troops were killing more civilians at the time than insurgents: "As of Aug. 1, the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can’t be attributed to one party." Afghan President Hamid Karzai had expressed concern about these civilian killings, a concern President Bush said he shared.

Whether Obama said that this was "all we're doing" is debatable. He said that we need to have enough troops so that we're "not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians," but did not say that troops are doing nothing else.

Out of Context?

Biden claimed a comment he made about "clean coal" was taken out of context:

Biden: My record for 25 years has supported clean coal technology. A comment made in a rope line was taken out of context. I was talking about exporting that technology to China so when they burn their dirty coal, it won't be as dirty, it will be clean.

Was it really taken out of context? Here’s the full exchange, which took place while Biden was shaking hands with voters along a rope line in Ohio.

Woman: Wind and solar are flourishing here in Ohio, why are you supporting clean coal?
Biden: We’re not supporting clean coal. Guess what? China’s building two every week, two dirty coal plants, and it’s polluting the United States. It’s causing people to die.

Obama-Biden campaign spokesman David Wade later said that “Biden’s point is that China is building coal plants with outdated technology every day, and the United States needs to lead by developing clean coal technologies.”

Whatever Biden meant or didn’t mean to say on the rope line, he has supported clean coal in the past. When the McCain camp used this one remark from Biden as the basis for a TV ad saying that Obama-Biden oppose clean coal, we said the claim was false. Obama’s position in favor of clean coal has been clear, and pushing for the technology has been part of his energy policy.

McCain in the Vanguard of Mortgage Reform?

Palin said that McCain had sounded the alarm on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago.

Palin: We need to look back, even two years ago, and we need to be appreciative of John McCain's call for reform with Fannie Mae, with Freddie Mac, with the mortgage-lenders, too, who were starting to really kind of rear that head of abuse.

Palin is referring to a bill that would have increased oversight on Fannie and Freddie. In our recent article about assigning blame for the crisis, we found that by the time McCain added his name to the bill as a cosponsor, the collapse was well underway. Home prices began falling only two months later. Our colleagues at PolitiFact also questioned this claim.

And There's More...

A few other misleads of note:

• Palin said, "We're circulating about $700 billion a year into foreign countries" for imported oil, repeating an outdated figure often used by McCain. At oil prices current as of Sept. 30, imports are running at a rate of about $493 billion per year.
  
   
• Biden claimed that McCain said in a magazine article that he wanted to deregulate the health care industry as the banking industry had been. That’s taking McCain’s words out of context. As we’ve said before, he was talking specifically about his proposal to allow the sale of health insurance across state lines.
  
   
• Biden said five times that McCain's tax plan would give oil companies a "$4 billion tax cut." As we’ve noted previously, McCain’s plan would cut the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent — for ALL corporations, not just oil companies. Biden uses a Democratic think tank's estimate for what the rate change is worth to the five largest U.S. oil companies.
  
  
• Palin threw out an old canard when she criticized Obama for voting for the 2005 energy bill and said, “that’s what gave those oil companies those big tax breaks.” It’s a false attack Sen. Hillary Clinton used against Obama in the primary, and McCain himself has hurled. It’s true that the bill gave some tax breaks to oil companies, but it also took away others. And according to the Congressional Research Service, the bill created a slight net increase in taxes for the oil industry.
  
  
• Biden said that Iraq had an "$80 billion surplus." The country was once projected to have as much as a $79 billion surplus, but no more. The Iraqis have $29 billion in the bank, and could have $47 billion to $59 billion by the end of the year, as we noted when Obama used the incorrect figure. A $21 billion supplemental spending bill, passed by the Iraqi legislature in August, knocked down the old projection.
  
  
• Biden said four times that McCain had voted 20 times against funding alternative energy. However, in analyzing the Obama campaign's list of votes after the first presidential debate, we found the number was actually 11. In the other instances the Obama-Biden campaign cites, McCain voted not against alternative energy but against mandatory use of alternative energy, or he voted in favor of allowing exemptions from these mandates.
  

-by Brooks Jackson, Viveca Novak, Lori Robertson, Joe Miller, Jessica Henig and Justin Bank

Correction Oct. 3: In the summary of this story we originally referred to the "president" of Spain. Biden actually used the word "government" and we have corrected the reference.