You know, BS, you're focusing on one specific item, when you should look at the big picture.

While Global Warming is indeed only a theory, air pollution is a fact.

You're so quick to jump on any environmentalist agenda as being supportive of the global warming theory, when in fact, most of these issues have nothing to do with GW. 

Global warming isn't a theory, it's a hypothesis with a *HELL* of a lot of solid evidence behind it.  They don't do science by petition, they do it by research.  None of the guys BS is citing did the research. 

Regular illiteracy breeds scientific illiteracy, I guess.

.

Evolution, gravity, and the idea that such things as "atoms" exist are theories.

If you believe global warming isn't real, you shouldn't vote for a candidate who does believe in it.

I personally believe in Global Warming, but it hasn't been proven beyond a doubt.  What has been proven is that the toxins that we release into the environment through man-made operations is indeed harmful.

My point is that everyone is looking at one small issue out of many when it comes to the Environment.  Naysayers are focusing on nothing but Global Warming, when, if they actually took a moment to look around them, they'd realize that many of the things we do as a society that are considered part of the Global Warming issue are also proven to be causes of many other issues..

Also, while BS is completely misled, he unintentionally proves a major point: most people do not have the real facts in front of them.  There are a lot of myths related to the current "Green" craze.  Many people who think they're doing things to save the environment would be horrified to realize that some of the things they're doing are only making the problem worse. 

If you believe global warming isn't real, you shouldn't vote for a candidate who does believe in it

You mean like John Sidney McCain III?

Random, a theory is one notch above a hypothesis. A hypothesis is essentially an educated guess.

Neither McCain, Obama, nor the ghost of LBJ can stop the world's biggest contributor to global warming: China.  

The world needs to tell China to take a leap.

If BS is right and everybody else is wrong, does this mean polar bears aren't endangered?

After reading about the serious scientists who have performed the research and signed this petition, I think that global warmers are today's UFO nuts. 

That petition has some 19,000 signers, all credentialed scientists.

cnbc said this morning  china was putting out 25,000 cars a month

Riiiiiight. Fred Sietz, author of the Oregon Petition, same guy who worked for R.J Reynolds tobacco. You know, tobacco doesn't cause cancer.

Anyone with a degree was entitled to sign that petition. The vast majority who signed it aren't climatologists The petition was attached to a letter written by Seitz, entitled Research Review of Global Warming Evidence. The lead author of the "review" that followed Seitz's letter is.......... a Christian fundamentalist called Arthur B Robinson,not a professional climate scientist. It was co-published by Robinson's organisation - the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine - and an outfit called the George C Marshall Institute, which has received $630,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998. The other authors were Robinson's 22-year-old son and two employees of the George C Marshall Institute. The chairman of the George C Marshall Institute was ...........Frederick Seitz.

So on the one hand you have your arguement  made by a organization funded by Exxon, and on the other hand we have EVERY SINGLE MAJOR SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD saying global warming is real.

But hey, thanks for playing.

In reality, neither Robinson's paper nor OISM's petition drive had anything to do with the National Academy of Sciences, which first heard about the petition when its members began calling to ask if the NAS had taken a stand against the Kyoto treaty. Robinson was not even a climate scientist. He was a biochemist with no published research in the field of climatology, and his paper had never been subjected to peer review by anyone with training in the field. In fact, the paper had never been accepted for publication anywhere, let alone in the NAS Proceedings. It was self-published by Robinson, who did the typesetting himself on his own computer. (It was subsequently published as a "review" in Climate Research, which contributed to an editorial scandal at that publication.)

None of the coauthors of "Environmental Effects of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide" had any more standing than Robinson himself as a climate change researcher. They included Robinson's 22-year-old son, Zachary, along with astrophysicists Sallie L. Baliunas and Willie Soon. Both Baliunas and Soon worked with Frederick Seitz at the George C. Marshall Institute, a Washington, D.C., think tank where Seitz served as executive director. Funded by a number of right-wing foundations, including Scaife and Bradley, the George C. Marshall Institute does not conduct any original research. It is a conservative think tank that was initially founded during the years of the Reagan administration to advocate funding for Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative--the "Star Wars" weapons program. Today, the Marshall Institute is still a big fan of high-tech weapons. In 1999, its website gave prominent placement to an essay by Col. Simon P. Worden titled "Why We Need the Air-Borne Laser," along with an essay titled "Missile Defense for Populations--What Does It Take? Why Are We Not Doing It?" Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, however, the Marshall Institute has adapted to the times by devoting much of its firepower to the war against environmentalism, and in particular against the "scaremongers" who raise warnings about global warming.

"The mailing is clearly designed to be deceptive by giving people the impression that the article, which is full of half-truths, is a reprint and has passed peer review," complained Raymond Pierrehumbert, a meteorlogist at the University of Chicago. NAS foreign secretary F. Sherwood Rowland, an atmospheric chemist, said researchers "are wondering if someone is trying to hoodwink them." NAS council member Ralph J. Cicerone, dean of the School of Physical Sciences at the University of California at Irvine, was particularly offended that Seitz described himself in the cover letter as a "past president" of the NAS. Although Seitz had indeed held that title in the 1960s, Cicerone hoped that scientists who received the petition mailing would not be misled into believing that he "still has a role in governing the organization."

The NAS issued an unusually blunt formal response to the petition drive. "The NAS Council would like to make it clear that this petition has nothing to do with the National Academy of Sciences and that the manuscript was not published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences or in any other peer-reviewed journal," it stated in a news release. "The petition does not reflect the conclusions of expert reports of the Academy." In fact, it pointed out, its own prior published study had shown that "even given the considerable uncertainties in our knowledge of the relevant phenomena, greenhouse warming poses a potential threat sufficient to merit prompt responses. Investment in mitigation measures acts as insurance protection against the great uncertainties and the possibility of dramatic surprises."

In addition to the bulk mailing, OISM's website enables people to add their names to the petition over the Internet, and by June 2000 it claimed to have recruited more than 19,000 scientists. The institute is so lax about screening names, however, that virtually anyone can sign, including for example Al Caruba, a pesticide-industry PR man and conservative ideologue who runs his own website called the "National Anxiety Center." Caruba has no scientific credentials whatsoever, but in addition to signing the Oregon Petition he has editorialized on his own website against the science of global warming, calling it the "biggest hoax of the decade," a "genocidal" campaign by environmentalists who believe that "humanity must be destroyed to 'Save the Earth.' . . . There is no global warming, but there is a global political agenda, comparable to the failed Soviet Union experiment with Communism, being orchestrated by the United Nations, supported by its many Green NGOs, to impose international treaties of every description that would turn the institution into a global government, superceding the sovereignty of every nation in the world."

When questioned in 1998, OISM's Arthur Robinson admitted that only 2,100 signers of the Oregon Petition had identified themselves as physicists, geophysicists, climatologists, or meteorologists, "and of those the greatest number are physicists." This grouping of fields concealed the fact that only a few dozen, at most, of the signatories were drawn from the core disciplines of climate science - such as meteorology, oceanography, and glaciology - and almost none were climate specialists. The names of the signers are available on the OISM's website, but without listing any institutional affiliations or even city of residence, making it very difficult to determine their credentials or even whether they exist at all. When the Oregon Petition first circulated, in fact, environmental activists successfully added the names of several fictional characters and celebrities to the list, including John Grisham, Michael J. Fox, Drs. Frank Burns, B. J. Honeycutt, and Benjamin Pierce (from the TV show M*A*S*H), an individual by the name of "Dr. Red Wine," and Geraldine Halliwell, formerly known as pop singer Ginger Spice of the Spice Girls. Halliwell's field of scientific specialization was listed as "biology." Even in 2003, the list was loaded with misspellings, duplications, name and title fragments, and names of non-persons, such as company names.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/...

That petition has some 19,000 signers, all credentialed scientists.

See my post above to find out just how wrong you are.

Anyone with a degree was entitled to sign that petition.

Anyone with an Internet account was able to sign the petition.

Quoting from 1998? ROFL. Global Warmers are the UFO nuts of today. They get so emotional because they don't have actual evidence but they have lots of anecdotes they mistake for facts. Have the global warmers told you that all of a sudden the climate is cooling? Oh No! They don't like the facts about that.  

Riiight. The polar caps aren't melting, it's an optical illusion.

I dunno, I think I'll stick with NASA instead of a bunch of whores in Oregon. LOL

But that's just me.

lixalox, what evidence is lacking?  The ocean levels are rising.  The OCEAN.  Do you know how big the ocean is?  We can argue weather patterns or CO2 levels or migration patterns or the recent shift in climate zones for planting, but the freaking ocean levels are rising.

anti, you are so pathetic. What about the increase in ice at the south pole? Or, what about the global cooling trend? You are such a UFO nut. You see a UFO in every piece of information. One might be hiding under your bed, too. ROFL. 

lixalox, global cooling and added ice at the South Pole?  Are you saying that there is climate change?

what about the global cooling trend

What cooling trend?  One year isn't a trend.

The trend is global warming, there is no dispute there.

Even Bush admits it.

What about the increase in ice at the south pole?

As arctic ice melts, South Pole ice grows

Scientists are puzzled, but the phenomenon seems to fit the latest global-warming models.

http://www.csmonitor.com/20...

Oops.

Global warming may be real, but you all seem to be suckers for something else: Trolls!

Gas- I mean Lixalox is such an obvious troll, and you're giving it the time of day?  Come on.

TomW, shouldn't you be screaming about how Canada didn't exist 10,000 years ago? Where is your outrage at the emergence of real estate in Canada since then? Where is your pain? Where is your emotional display? Why, goodness, there wasn't even a Canada until recently, and mysteriously, before the Industrial Revolution! Oh! The Pain of it all! It can't possibly be a world trend due to factors out of our control. What a bunch of emotional tripe, little different than all the pronouncements against those poor lesbian black women who are prosecuted by the media and other bloggers before they have even had a trial. 

There *IS* no such increase in ice at the south pole.  It's melting down there too around the edges.  Global warming predicts that the weather patterns would bring more moisture to the pole itself, and the ice *IS* increasing there, but melting ever-faster around the edges, which are calving at an alarming rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

pawn, Actually, I think you are the troll.

10,000 years ago human beings didn't settle in large cities in places (coastal regions, etc) where global climate change will force huge changes in the way of life.   Twenty years ago my neighbor's house burned down, so fire is a natural process which I shouldn't worry about even if I smell smoke.

Lixalox, it appears you're not doing it right. This should help:

zapatopi.net/afdb/

After the flood (Noah)  God promised He would not destroy this Planet with water  He gave us a Rainbow (not the Gay rainbow)  for His promise   So you UFO people  don't worry about WATER and the OCEAN'S   like TOM does.

Ron

PS climate change has happened since this Planet was Created.  No SUV's  then

Hmm, NASA says different: http://www.nasa.gov/centers... 

lix   they have their minds made up    Hell they (random)   still thinks Bush is running again

Quit licking the lox, it's killing brain cells.

Here is the faculty of this Institute..

Martin D Kamen  - Legitimate scientist who's specialty is chemistry, not climatology. (Once wrongly accused of being a commy)

R. Bruce Merrifield - Nobel Prize winning biochemist, not a climatologist

These two guys are respected but they are out of their realm. After that, It really gets dicey...

Carl Boeme - electrical engineer....I might let him fix my wiring, but he knows nothing of global warming.

Jane Orient - this one is really an expert on global warming...she's an M.D. who writes fiction for a living

The Robinsons - they worked for the tobacco industry, and they also think evolution is a sham

No lixalox, if you want your next colonoscopy done by a dentist, then your logic is good.

Hmm.. lix.. read the final two paragraphs where they admit that they're basing a lot of their theories on computer models:

"We used computer-generated simulations to get this research result. I hope that in the future we’ll be able to verify this result with real data through a long-term ice thickness measurement campaign," said Powell. "Our goal as scientists is to collect hard data to verify what the computer model is telling us. It will be critical to know for certain whether average sea ice thickness is indeed increasing in the Antarctic as our model indicates, and to determine what environmental factors are spurring this apparent phenomenon."

Achim Stossel of the Department of Oceanography at Texas A&M University, College Station, Tex., a third co-author on this paper, advises that "while numerical models have improved considerably over the last two decades, seemingly minor processes like the snow-to-ice conversion still need to be better incorporated in models as they can have a significant impact on the results and therefore on climate predictions."

Good thing the facts on global warming have a liberal bias--like all facts do.

That's right allRED. When they get mad at me they call me names. The temerity of some people. Stand strong allRED, we shall overcome. 

Lix, climatologists will freely admit their predictions haven't been as accurate as they'd like over the past couple of decades.  They've almost universally *UNDER*estimated the effects and rate of global warming.

I think you are all gay and stupid for thinking anything... just take the governments word as truth and go on with your pathetic existence!

A long time ago the world was super hot and ugly (hence lizard creatures)... then the world changed and became very very cold... now the world is changing again to hot.  While we are not creating the change, we are definitely helping it along... but the change is inevitable anyway.  Suck it up, move somewhere cold... and make sure your children know just how much you really love them!!!

anti is still running against Bush in 2000 and that should tell you everything. Here are the experts he is trotting out:

random: Husband, part time poster and global warmer.

Florida: Says he graduated college, don't know in what. School of education?

TSM: Blogger, but doesn't know the difference between wattage and amperage.

 mattloch: Blogger, who can find wikipedia.

You are just not impressing me antiextremism.

Lix, you do him no favors by encouraging his mythological bent. :)

LOL:)

NASA says global warming is real. Deal with it.

http://www.nasa.gov/worldbo...

Lixolox: Doesn't know the difference between a credentialed scientist and a fictitious sitcom character.

Lix - unless you're an expert on the Environment, you have no credibility.

No, the experts I'm trotting out are every major scientific organization in the world, not Al Gore. If you don't trot out Rush Limbaugh on how drug addicts should be imprisoned, I won't mention Al Gore. I prefer to mention Susan Solomon or some other actual expert in the field.

UFOs? Of course I believe in UFOs, who doesn't?

Oh wait, I forgot that you are completely dumbfounded by the terminology. Let me help you. UFO stands for unidentified flying object. That means "What the hell is that?" You of course, would logically conclude that since you don't know what it is, it might contain little green men. Myself, I might conclude that its a plane, or a balloon or some atmospheric anomaly. Could it be little green men.....well I guess it is possible. Probable? Very unlikely considering Einstiens theory that nothing can go faster than light, thus making a trip to a remote planet on the outer part of the Milky Way a very very long "Are we there yet" trip. But there are always those possible worm holes whereby time and space are bent, and who knows, maybe an alien has come up with a formula for immortality....I'm sorry, you look dizzy.

A bunch of (worry warts)    when your soul is doomed    I see why you worry      Tim Russett died @ 58   sitting @ his desk       your time is never guaranteed    here today gone tomorrow   let the dead bury the dead   

anti, come now. Don't you know that we can slow the speed of light to a crawl if we want to? Go study. Because you lack facts and credentials yourself, you falter in your cites. I am really not impressed with your excitable UFO sighting unless you offer some recognizable proof. 

allRED, I am getting my tin foil hat out after reading all this craziness. 

Come on now Ms Lix -- TSM knows the difference between Watts and Amperage.

They had riots in the former

(caused by right wingers oppressing left wingers BTW)

I like the way you play him though....... kinda like ML and Wiki....... haha!

They ARE pretty easy....................

Lix i bet most of these UFO"s   pour Mercury around their houses once a month to keep out all those Alien's

I will say one thing: using Wikipedia as a source isn't a wise move.

Ahhh. You are familiar with Lene Hau. Well that just helped your credibility.

If you're gonna post a study done by someone without a Phd that was funded by NASA, post them all.........http://search.nasa.gov/sear...

I don't lack facts, the facts are overwhelmingly behind my stance. If you could name but one single credible scientific organization that disputes global warming....just one.

Tim Russett died @ 58   sitting @ his desk      

It's a shame that you didn't do the same thing.

Ms. Lix curtseys to the gentlemen Chico and allRED:)