You can't agree with McCain either since he comes out on both sides of the issues.

Apparently BS thinks folks *SHOULD* be punished with a baby.  Me, I have a better opinion of children.  Guess 'cuz mine were perfect, except for the one factory defect.

Apparently BS thinks folks *SHOULD* be punished with a baby.

Unfortunately, it's the babies who get punished.

When you read about a baby getting abused and killed in Kern County, more often than not it's from a young parent who is ill-equiped to handle it.

But like most rightwingers, BS doesn't care about the child once it's out of the womb.

I do agree with McCain, I personally believe in life, but just because of my vaues but I do not feel that I have any right to impose it on everyone, and like John McCain says the states have the right to decide for themselves, you know like how it was designed, states right in all.

Gee TSM your almost smart.

RF, what the hell is wrong with you? I posted "Obama I dont agree with you" and posted the qoute of him saying babies are punishment", so obviously I do not agree with Obama.

Babies are not punishment. and I will go further babies do not happen by accident. Children are born because of desicions people make. RF you are a tool.

RF how can you vote for a man that thinks that babies are punishment?

actually we think that marriage and adoption should be encouraged and that abuses of the babies are awful.

TSM how old are you?

Why do you think I agree wiht Obama, I do not.

Actually we liberals think that contraception should be encouraged, that adoption and marriage are great things and should be extended to more people (like same-sex couples) and that abortion should be left up to the woman.  Obama disagrees somewhat with that last, but he's smart enough to know why Roe v. Wade was resolved as it was.

How can *YOU* vote for a man who thinks his wife is one of the seven words you can't say on television?

Let me ask you this supe. If Mike Tyson raped your daughter, would you encourage her to have the baby?

I believe the "mistake" Obama was talking about was having premarital sex. Do you disagree that premarital sex is wrong?

I believe the remedy for that mistake is contraception, and that's what Obama was referencing, not abortion. Do you prefer contraception, or abortion?

You do love to take things out of context, don't you? Does your conscious ever bother you?

I doubt he's been fully conscious for a while, oohchild.

At least Mr Cindy McCain believes in the basic principle of trading up for a better model... and cheating on the wife in between the divorce and the new spouse..a man of spirital priciples and high morals.. Presidental material?

Like it or not, he did say the child would be a punishment. Do I think he really means it the way it sounded? No. An obvious gaffe, but I'm sure he has gone back and explained what he really meant.

Like Imus.

Here's McCain's postions: http://www.ontheissues.org/...

Prosecute abortion doctors, not women who get them

On “Meet the Press,” McCain said he had “come to the conclusion that the exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother are legitimate exceptions” to an outright ban on abortions. “I don’t claim to be a theologian, but I have my moral beliefs.” If Roe v. Wade is overturned and abortion outlawed, McCain said he believes doctors who performed abortions would be prosecuted. “But I would not prosecute a woman” who obtained an abortion.

“Family Conference” if daughter wanted an abortion

KEYES [to McCain]: What you would say if your daughter was ever in a position where she might need an abortion? You answered [earlier today] that the choice would be up to her and then that you’d have a family conference. That displayed a profound lack of understanding of the basic issue of principle involved in abortion. After all, if your daughter said she was contemplating killing her grandmother for the inheritance, you wouldn’t say, “Let’s have a family conference.” You’d look at her and say “Just Say No,“ because that is morally wrong. It is God’s choice that that child is in the womb. And for us to usurp that choice in contradiction of our declaration of principles is just as wrong.

McCAIN: I am proud of my pro-life record in public life, and I will continue to maintain it. I will not draw my children into this discussion. As a leader of a pro-life party with a pro-life position, I will persuade young Americans [to] understand the importance of the preservation of the rights of the unborn.

Abortion OK if raped; and no testing for rape

McCain was asked whether he would reinstate the Reagan era rule that prevents international family planning clinics that receive federal funds from discussing abortion. “I don’t believe they should advocate abortion with my tax dollars,” McCain said, adding that he opposed abortion except in cases of rape and incest. He was then asked how he would determine whether someone had in fact been raped. McCain responded, “I think that I would give the benefit of the doubt to the person who alleges that.”

Supports fetal tissue research; against over-intensity

McCain was asked how he could be anti-abortion and still vote to support fetal tissue research. He supports fetal-tissue research, McCain said, because it has helped make progress against Parkinson’s disease. McCain concluded that abortion rights and anti-abortion activists should cooperate on issues of foster care and adoption. He had made his decision on abortion, he said, “after a lot of study, consultation, and a lot of prayer.” He added, “I’d like to have less intensity on this issue.”

Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions

McCain said he thought Roe v. Wade should be overturned and said he would support exceptions to a ban on abortion in cases of rape, incest, and when the mother’s life is in danger.

Support adoption & foster care; work together on abortion

Q: Should Republicans encourage pro-choice voters to support their candidates?

A: We must begin a dialogue and a discussion on the issue of abortion. Both pro-life & pro-choice people believe very strongly that we need to eliminate abortion. I and my wife, Cindy, are proud adoptive parents. We need to encourage adoption in America. We need to improve foster care dramatically. We can work together. We can have respectful disagreements on specific issues, and we can work together on this one.

Wants Roe vs. Wade made irrelevant, but would not repeal it

McCain said, “I’d love to see a point where Roe vs. Wade is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade, which would then force women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations.” A spokesman said that McCain “has a 17-year voting record of supporting efforts to overturn Roe vs. Wade. He does that currently, and will continue to do that as president.”

Opposes partial-birth abortions & public financing

In a letter to the National Right to Life Committee, McCain detailed a long anti-abortion record, including his sponsorship of the effort to overturn President Clinton’s veto of a bill banning late-term procedures called “partial birth” abortions. He also has opposed public financing of abortions, except in cases of rape, incest or a threat to the mother’s life.

Nominate justices based on experience, and values

On the issue of nominating Supreme Court justices based on an abortion litmus-test, “McCain has said that he will nominate justices based on their experience, and those who share his values,” said a spokesman.

Restrict abortions; no partial-birth; no public funding

McCain supports the following statements:
1. Abortions should be legal only when the pregnancy resulted from incest, rape, or when the life of the woman is endangered.
2. Prohibit the late-term abortion procedure known as “partial-birth” abortion.
3. Prohibit public funding of abortions and public funding of organizations that advocate or perform abortions.

Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions.

Vote on a motion to table [kill] an amendment that would repeal the ban on privately funded abortions at overseas military facilities.

Voted YES on allowing partial birth abortions.

This legislation, if enacted, would ban the abortion procedure in which the physician partially delivers the fetus before completing the abortion.

Status: Bill Passed Y)63; N)34; NV)3

RF, you know that John McCain supports abortion as long as the woman lives in another country and you use a missle or bomb to do it.  He's not against abortion per se, he's just against the right to choose.

For others.  He's said publicly if it were *HIS* daughter, she'd have the right to choice.

.

Of course, that was a few years ago.  I think he's probably had three other positions since.

He's said publicly if it were *HIS* daughter

Is that the daughter Karl Rove said he sired with a Black woman?

If it was his daughter I`m sure Cindy could buy some kind of solution, if it was Cindy`s daughter also ? 

I *STILL* wonder where they're keeping Vicki Iseman.

You're hittin' the sweet spot with your abortion info, TomW.  Now see Random?  Why can't you be more like your brother Tom?

 If you are old enough to spread your legs and not use protection (accidents happen even with protection too) then you are old enough to keep the baby and decide if you are going to raise it or if you would like to place the child for adoption. It is not the childs fault your and idiot and dont know how to make responisble choices. dont take it out of the kid.

Whoa, Tiffani.  Thanks for the advice.  I'll remember that the next time I spread my legs.

 If you are old enough to spread your legs and not use protection (accidents happen even with protection too) then you are old enough to keep the baby and decide if you are going to raise it or if you would like to place the child for adoption.

And old enough to choose not to continue the pregnancy.  You forgot that one.

 And old enough to choose not to continue the pregnancy to commit murder.  You forgot that one.

Fixed, free of charge.

 i didnt forget that RF i just chose to leave that part out..

Catherine- i know i stated the obvious.. lol. sorry :-/

Ahhh.  This is why I became a Libertarian.  I can remember it like it was yesterday.  Winter frosts subsiding to spring dew, "Been Caught Stealing" on my cd player, and people chasing me from their political parties with verbal pitchforks.  Giving me their morals free of charge.  Mmm.  "Memories...misty watercolored memories."

to commit murder

Since a fetus isn't considered a person and abortion is legal, it's only considered murder by the religous folks.

Funny how those same folks are in favor of the death penalty.

"... a Libertarian" ? Interested in running for Congress?

No thanks montfred.  Based on what I read around here, I'd be run out of town.

 TSM- a fetus is considered a person when there is a heart beat. Also, some people decided to abort after the baby is well past a tadpole. that is murder.

I'll try and simplfy it for the simple minded.

Death Penalty = earned

Murder = Not Earned

Very good, for situations after birth.  Before birth things are never so clear-cut. 

.

Now, Tiffanilynn, your definition of "person" is way off.  That's the reason Roe v. Wade was created.  It's a good compromise that satisfies neither side.  So let's keep it.

a fetus is considered a person when there is a heart beat.

Right-0! As I undrstand it, if I kill my pregant wife, I get charged with double homicide. If I get drunk and cause a car crash where a pregnant woman loses her baby, I can be chaged with negligent homicide or manslaughter.

I'm not a big fan of abortion, but for those of you who believe it to be murder in all cases, what would you personally do if it were your daughter, who was raped by a hardcore mentally disturbed criminal, and the doctor determined that the baby would come out with a plethora of medical maladies. Just curious.

So let's continue your logic.  You support the death penalty for murder.  So, one assumes, you support the death penalty for women who have abortions.  Unless you subscribe to the recent SCOTUS decision that women are too twitter-pated to be held accountable for such decisions.

.

Also, many of the religious nutcases infesting the issue would maintain that personhood begins with the fertilized egg.  I assume you disagree?

Antiex, it's only murder when someone *ELSE* does it.

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/w...

Hmmmmmm. No takers Random.

Okay then. We'll leave relatives out of the equation. What would y'all do with Rosemary's baby? Just a hypothetical folks.

  "As I undrstand it, if I kill my pregant wife, I get charged with double homicide"

Scott Peterson case anyone?

RF- How is it not a person if it has a heart beat? last time i checked you are alive if your heart is beating.

My cat has a heart beat, Tiffanilynn.  An oyster has a heart beat.  An earthworm has *FIVE*.

.

There's a vast difference between "alive" and "a person."

RF- obviously, im blonde not stupid. I know the difference between animal and human (although some humans act like animals). 

 If it has a heartbeat and is human, then its alive. Correct? Your telling me that just because its in the womb that doesnt mean anything?

"What would y'all do with Rosemary's baby?"   Take a guess.

Alive, yes.  A person, not yet.  The Bible basically says personhood starts with breath (although I don't use that as my standard.)

.

Look, Roe v. Wade isn't perfect, but it gave clear guidelines that allow necessary medical procedures to protect real, breathing human beings with real problems.  Those people who feel abortion is murder don't have to have them.  But they're generally lying when they say they think it's murder--lying to themselves most of all.

Humans are animals, Tiff.

I forgot about you Rosemarysabortionist !    LOL

If adoption were such a raging success we wouldn't have so many children growing up and out of the foster care system. 

Tiff,, being Blonde does not make you dumb..  I'm Blonde, I have a Daughter that's Blonde, four Blonde grand kids and one of my adopted daughters is Blonde.  Okay, there's more than enough proof that you have to be smart,,, to be a Blonde. ;=))))

Everyone else out there is just jealous, that they are not able to have a Blonde day or a Blonde moment. ;=)))

Murph, the dumbest woman I ever met was a blonde honky-tonk waitress named Lana. She was from Minnesota. Thank goodness she went back there! 

There are smart blondes, but she wasn't one of them...

JBS- i promise im not a dumb blonde!! :)