The surge didn't work; we paid off the guys who were shooting at us.  Once we stop paying them off, they'll start shooting again.

Oh, and Obama was right:  we needed a timetable set to get all our troops out of Iraq (there was no way the Iraqis were going to go for McBush's Hundred Years' War).  And they just *SET* a timetable for the end of 2011 (I have hopes that President Obama will be able to beat that timetable significantly.  Say, about 16 months or so, by the middle of 2010.) 

Of course, that means we won't be able to force the Iraqis to sell us their oil cheap, so I guess that whole "Mission Accomplished" thing didn't work either.

Right, try telling that to the 34 killed and 75 wounded from yesterday.

As soon as we stop paying the factions, then centuries old bad blood will continue. George doesn't have the capacity to lead our country, what makes you think he can fix there's?

I suppose if we assigned one Marine to each citizen there, violence would go down, but how practical is that?

My nephew was there~twice~ and he does not feel as you do.War is hell and "horrible acts" are part and parcel of the act of war. 75% of casualties are women, children, and other civilians. Tell them it worked,the ones still living.Tell those without water,electricity.....we have spent how many trillion and you are naive enough to speak of winning? "winning", with lost lives,opportunities and our country no safer than before 9/11?

What is S.R. 363 exactly? I might support it,if you stated it's purpose salted with with some facts. 

Really? Random Factor it didnt work?,

Violence against US troop is down 80%, the number of US combat deaths in July (5), was the lowest since the invasion. Violence against Iraqi civilians is also down about 70%. We have turned over more Iraqi Provinces to Iraq, thier infrastucture is is being built and thier economy is on the rise. Iraq oil production is up to around 2.5 million barrels a day and they just had a surplus of 70 billion bucks. In fact the Surge has worked so well that we are already pullng troops out...

Anti,

I dont agree about the Bush statement but that really doesn't matter cause McCain is the leader we need and he is who Im voting for.

To both of you,

you guys seem to be saying that it was the sunni tribes that took back the nieghbor hoods and brought peace. That the surge was not the cause of the success. Thats bull snap!. What happen to the priase of our young men and wemon? Are you taking back all the support the troops stuff?

It was the American Military whose accomplishments brought peace. Obama said that the surge of 20,000 troops would not help that it would make things worse. He was wrong. Both of you are wrong.

So like the Ad says call Obama and tell him.

Forget the Surge -- Violence Is Down in Iraq Because Ethnic Cleansing Was Brutally Effective

http://www.alternet.org/war...

The best that can happen to Iraq at this point is that it will separate into different republics according to religion. How the Kurds grip on the oil resources will affect this outcome remains to be seen. I think the Kurds anticipate this. Their part of Iraq is modern, secular, secure, undergoing a building boom and are doing it with billions of dollars. Not US money but with foreign investment. The Kurds have their own police and army. Their "border" is secured.  

What part of "we paid them off" don't you understand, BS?  I broke it down for you into words of one syll-a-ble or less. 

We're giving weapons to people who hate our guts and telling them to shoot other people who hate our guts.  *THAT'S* never been a problem before.

Brainwashing BakersfieldSuperman worked.

The surge DID NOT work.

BS probably believes Iraq had WMD too.

Why didn't the previous surge in 2005 work then? Violence spiked during that time. Was it because we weren't paying off the tribal leaders? There are certainly other factors at work now that weren't there in 2005. What else could make them want to stop killing each other?

I wonder how many friends or family members BS has overseas.

I know plenty of our service personel who would challenge BS in a second.

Edit: I'd like to add that the surge has worked in certain ways, and failed in others.  I have to get going, so I'll elaborate later.. maybe.

i think bs works for fox news, lol

110th CONGRESS

2d Session

S. RES. 636

Recognizing the strategic success of the troop surge in Iraq and expressing gratitude to the members of the United States Armed Forces who made that success possible.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

July 31, 2008

Mr. LIEBERMAN (for himself, Mr. GRAHAM, Mr. MCCAIN, Mr. ENZI, Mr. MARTINEZ, Mr. BOND, Mr. WICKER, Mr. CORNYN, Mr. CRAPO, Mr. ALLARD, Mr. THUNE, Mr. BARRASSO, and Mr. INHOFE) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Armed Services

RESOLUTION

Recognizing the strategic success of the troop surge in Iraq and expressing gratitude to the members of the United States Armed Forces who made that success possible.

Whereas, by the end of 2006, it had become clear that, despite exceptional efforts and sacrifices on the part of the United States Armed Forces in Iraq, the United States was pursuing a failed strategy in Iraq;

Whereas, by the end of 2006, large-scale sectarian violence was accelerating throughout Iraq, al Qaeda had established significant safe havens there, militias sponsored by the Government of Iran had seized effective control of large swaths of Iraq, and the Government of Iraq was suffering from political paralysis;

Whereas, by the end of 2006, insurgents and death squads were killing more than 3,000 civilians in Iraq each month and coalition forces were sustaining more than 1,200 attacks each week;

Whereas, in December 2006, the Iraq Study Group warned that `the United States is facing one of its most difficult and significant international challenges in decades' in Iraq and that `Iraq is vital to regional and even global stability, and is critical to U.S. interests';

Whereas, in December 2004, Osama bin Laden said the following of the war in Iraq: `The most important and serious issue today for the whole world is this Third World War. . . . The world's millstone and pillar is Baghdad, the capital of the caliphate.';

Whereas, on January 10, 2007, in an address to the Nation, President George W. Bush acknowledged that the situation in Iraq was `unacceptable' and announced his intention to put in place a new strategy, subsequently known as `the surge';

Whereas President Bush nominated and the Senate confirmed General David H. Petraeus as the Commander of Multi-National Forces--Iraq, a position he assumed on February 10, 2007;

Whereas General Petraeus, upon assuming command, and in partnership with Lieutenant General Raymond Odierno, the Commander of Multi-National Corps--Iraq, and United States Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker, developed a comprehensive civil-military counterinsurgency campaign plan to reverse Iraq's slide into chaos, defeat the enemies of the United States in Iraq, and, in partnership with the Iraqi Security Forces and the Government of Iraq, reestablish security across the country;

Whereas, under the previous strategy, the overwhelming majority of United States combat forces were concentrated on a small number of large forward operating bases and were not assigned the mission of providing security for the people of Iraq against insurgents, terrorists, and militia fighters, in part because there were insufficient members of the United States Armed Forces in Iraq to do so;

Whereas, as an integral component of the surge, approximately 5 additional United States Army brigades and 2 United States Marine Corps battalions were deployed to Iraq;

Whereas, as an integral component of the surge, members of the United States Armed Forces were deployed out of large forward operating bases onto small bases throughout Baghdad and other key population centers, partnering with the Iraqi Security Forces to provide security for the local population against insurgents, terrorists, and militia fighters;

Whereas additional members of the United States Armed Forces began moving into Iraq in January 2007 and reached full strength in June 2007;

Whereas, as a consequence of the additional forces needed in Iraq, in April 2007 the United States Army added 3 months to the standard year-long tour for all active duty soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the United States Marine Corps added 3 months to the standard 6-month tour for all active duty Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan;

Whereas, as an integral component of the surge, members of the United States Armed Forces began simultaneous and successive offensive operations, in partnership with the Iraqi Security Forces, of unprecedented breadth, continuity, and sophistication, striking multiple enemy safe havens and lines of communication at the same time;

Whereas, as an integral component of the surge, additional members of the United States Armed Forces were deployed to Anbar province to provide essential support to the nascent tribal revolt against al Qaeda in that province;

Whereas those additional members of the United States Armed Forces played a critical role in the success and spread of anti-Qaeda Sunni tribal groups in Anbar province and subsequently in other regions of Iraq;

Whereas, since the start of the surge in January 2007, there have been marked and hopeful improvements in almost every political, security, and economic indicator in Iraq;

Whereas, in 2007, General Petraeus described Iraq as `the central front of al Qaeda's global campaign';

Whereas, in 2008, as a consequence of the success of the surge, al Qaeda has been dealt what Director of Central Intelligence Michael Hayden assesses as a `near strategic defeat' in Iraq;

Whereas, as a consequence of the success of the surge, militias backed by the Government of Iran have been routed from major population centers in Iraq and no longer control significant swaths of territory;

Whereas, as a consequence of the success of the surge, sectarian violence in Iraq has fallen dramatically and has been almost entirely eliminated;

Whereas, as a consequence of the success of the surge, overall insurgent attacks have fallen by approximately 80 percent since June 2007 and are at their lowest level since March 2004;

Whereas, as a consequence of the success of the surge, United States casualties in Iraq have dropped dramatically and United States combat deaths in Iraq in July 2008 were lower than in any other month since the beginning of the war;

Whereas, as a consequence of the success of the surge, the Government of Iraq has made significant strides in advancing sectarian reconciliation and achieving political progress, including the passage of key benchmark legislation;

Whereas, as a consequence of the success of the surge, the Iraqi Security Forces have improved markedly and approximately 70 percent of Iraqi combat battalions are now leading operations in their areas; and

Whereas, as a consequence of the success of the surge, General Petraeus concluded in 2008 that conditions on the ground in Iraq could permit the additional brigades and battalions dispatched to Iraq in 2007 as part of the surge to be safely redeployed without replacement, and all such brigades and battalions have been successfully withdrawn without replacement: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That the Senate--

 

1. commends and expresses its gratitude to the men and women of the United States Armed Forces for the service, sacrifices, and heroism that made the success of the troop surge in Iraq possible;
    
2. commends and expresses its gratitude to General David H. Petraeus, General Raymond Odierno, and Ambassador Ryan Crocker for the distinguished wartime leadership that made the success of the troop surge in Iraq possible;
    
3. recognizes the success of the troop surge in Iraq and its strategic significance in advancing the vital national interests of the United States in Iraq, the Middle East, and the world, in particular as a strategic victory in a central front of the war on terrorism; and
    
4. recognizes that the hard-won gains achieved as a result of the troop surge in Iraq are significant but not yet permanent and that it is imperative that no action be taken that jeopardizes those gains or dishonors the service and sacrifice of the men and women of the United States Armed Forces who made those gains possible.

I want the GOP to push this hard when they go back.

I assume that McBush would break his four-month vacation to vote on this useless piece of political theater.

It's sad that military action in Iraq is itself being driven for political effect.

O.K. BS, the surge worked. Everybody in Iraq is safe and secure and not afraid to walk their own streets. We can bring our sons and daughters home from that anus of creation. Iraqi forces are securing their own provinces without our firepower. What happens next? Care to speculate? While the Iraqis celebrate their freedom, however that's defined, we get to tally the cost and wonder if it was worth it. Do you thhink it was?

Unless the polls have changed Bush's approval rating is still below 30%. The approval rating for Congress I last heard was 14%. That demeans the "atta boy" resolution to less than meaningless. I notice the language didn't end  with "the dead didn't die in vain." That would have been a nice touch and consoled every American who got their loved returned in a box.

catpaw,

 Your first post, I think Biden agrees with you, I'm not sure but I think he backed a very similar plan before he drop out.

Your second post, I do think it was worth it. I think that American sacrifices have led to a mor stable democratic Iraq, one that is not ruled by a tyrant. I don't thank everything is daisy's, hell everything here is not daisy's but I will say this what happens next is an Iraq that has a free people and government that will look out for them. One that eventually won't need us to sacrifice so much for their freedom.

I think making sure people have freedom and are free of oppression is worth it. Not saying you don't but that is how i see it.

RF, military action for political gain is how Obama won the nomination, McCain ironically did the opposite and supported a very unpopular position that turned out to be the best, especially compared with Obama's retreat we lost strategy.

FSG,

I have only have 1 left over there, Rick, He is returning soon, Paul just got back. He's pretty happy he left shortly after his son was born, Leo. Him and his fam are very happy I just talked to him a week ago. Tony and Mungie just returned a little while ago. Other than Rick, that's it. He was the only one still there that was close.

But FSG, honestly and it might seem weird but I know alot of people that were in and alot are still there, I don't stay in touch or call them, but I consider them family.  

Ms. Jenny, I don't work for them lol. I just a republican and Fox is the only place that gives each side time. Did you answer my question to you? I forget what thread it was but I will look, I am very curious to know what your reply was.

LMFAO!!

Then bring everyone home - that is the true test and they will fail that one!

How are things working out in Afghanistan? The Talban is back in control...face it Bush is a horrible commander.

BS - The rich appreciate the efforts of you and your common people family and friends. We want to think you for preserving our vast fortunes, while you people come home with lost limbs and lost lives. We can still maintain our excessive consumption lifestyle built on the backs of the working poor. Once again, thanks for your sacrifice in keeping us and our fortunes safe from the "evil doers" (whoever that is).

Bakersfieldbubble you realize we are not in charge in Afghanistan right? Its NATO.

Um there are bringing people home, but you dont leave until the enemy is defeated. LMFAO!!!

the evil doer's are the people cutting off American heads under false religious prejudice...

BS your like 12 years old arent you?

Bakersfield Bubble, I assume that you are suggesting through your sarcastic post that only poor people go to war and only the rich are helped by it. I am sorry to disappoint you but that is not the case the following statistics show who exactly is enlisting in the military and I am sure you will find extremely interesting.

1. U.S. military service disproportionately attracts enlisted personnel and officers who do not come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Previous Her­itage Foundation research demonstrated that the quality of enlisted troops has increased since the start of the Iraq war. This report demon­strates that the same is true of the officer corps.
2. Members of the all-volunteer military are sig­nificantly more likely to come from high-income neighborhoods than from low-income neighborhoods. Only 11 percent of enlisted recruits in 2007 came from the poorest one-fifth (quintile) of neighborhoods, while 25 per­cent came from the wealthiest quintile. These trends are even more pronounced in the Army Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) pro­gram, in which 40 percent of enrollees come from the wealthiest neighborhoods—a number that has increased substantially over the past four years.
3. American soldiers are more educated than their peers. A little more than 1 percent of enlisted per­sonnel lack a high school degree, compared to 21 percent of men 18–24 years old, and 95 percent of officer accessions have at least a bachelor’s degree.
4. Contrary to conventional wisdom, minorities are not overrepresented in military service. Enlisted troops are somewhat more likely to be white or black than their non-military peers. Whites are proportionately represented in the officer corps, and blacks are overrepresented, but their rate of overrepresentation has declined each year from 2004 to 2007. New recruits are also disproportionately likely to come from the South, which is in line with the history of South­ern military tradition.

why? because I know who's in charge in Afghanistan?

It gets damn tiring when people who say they are against the war are suddenly troop haters. This war isn't a John Wayne movie where it's easy to tell the good guys from the bad. This is Suni against Shia, Shia against Shia, Suni against Suni, Kurd against Arab, terrorist against terrorist. If we weren't there, there would be no American heads lopped off.

If you remember, the original rag on Bush was they did not send enough troops. You supported his way of thinking that failed miserably, then finally, he did put in more troops.

What has it accomplished? Violence is down. Is it solely because of the surge, yes, the surge in payoffs mostly.

What do you think is going to happen when we do pull out? Do you honestly feel that Iraq is gonna be a shining star of democracy in the middle east?

No, what we did is create a vacuum of power, and when we finally leave, we can rename Iraq, Western Iran.

I think we laid the egg, and we need to see this through, but there will be no fairly tale ending. Then you will blame a failed Iraq on Obama because he didn't finish Bush's plan. What plan???

Furthermore to state that bringing everyone home is the true test of success, you are completing incorrect. We are still in Japan, and Germany just to name a few and I would argue that we were successful in those places.

We are still in Japan, and Germany just to name a few and I would argue that we were successful in those places.

 How many troops in Japan and Germany have been killed in combat since the end of those wars?

We lost another soldier yesterday in Iraq.

Comparing WWII to the Iraq war is nonsense. They are completely different in so many ways.

No, because your post appear to be written by a 12 year old.  Academically incompetent.

How are things working out in Afghanistan?

Not very well.Especially if you're a woman or child and in the way of U.S. bombs.

“According to our investigation, there was not a single armed individual from the opposition in the area,” he said. “During the air attack on Azizabad, 90 people died, including women, children and old men. This is cruel behaviour on the part of the foreign forces, and it can greatly complicate the security situation.”

60 of the dead were children.

Her­itage Foundation

Yeah, I believe this right wing group. GO ahead and sign up then! How long did you serve?

You missed my point TSM.

 Bake Bubble said the true test of success is bringing everyone home. I disagreed because we are still in those places and I would say we were successful.

So I was not comparing WWII to Iraq other than to say we are still in Japan and Germany and we were still successful. Please read my post more carefully before you comment next time, because actually you agreed with me, by stating that military presence alone in a country does not indicate success or failure, it is the violence that is taking place there, and the well being of troops and civilians.

I think one of our big problems has been the fact that many Iraqis resent American military presence, And I don't pretend to know exactly Iraqi public opinion. But as soon as we can reduce our visibility as much as possible, the better I think it is going to be." John McCain 2005

Bakersfield Bubble, this is typical, for a liberal with no evidence of there own to present, to bash actual facts. The statistics were provided by The Defense Manpower Data Center, which gave information on all recruits.

You continue to display your ignorance with your harsh comment about going ahead and signing up. This is a typical response for people who have nothing else to say. I think it is extremely ignorant of you to suggest that if you don't experience something you can't have an education discussion about it.

LOL
 

Then sign up...obviously you have never fought for this country. American Hater! LMAO

I am neither Liberal or Conservative. Only the sheeple need an umbrella to cover them and make them feel like they are part of some group.

We were successful in Germany and Japan because the people were defeated and their ability to fight gone. It is not the case in Iraq, as evidence shows every day.

How long until you are going to claim we were successful in Iraq with the continuing violence? 100 years?

Just as the Russians found out in Afghanistan, there comes a time when you have to admit the war was folly. Two-thirds of Americans have already come to that realization.

Ballerinagirl, you seem to be good at regurgitating information.  It appears that you are devoted to your party and void of any opinion that does not follow party lines.

I never called anyone an American Hater, or suggest that not being in the military makes you one, I am not ignorant like you are. I merely presented facts that you disagreed with but rather than refute them thoughtfully, you name called....very mature.

And there are other ways to support his country outside from the military, i.e. charities, community service, volunteer work all of which I have done. So I would appreciate it if you did not attack my patriotism since I have not attacked yours.

Funny you should say that since while looking through this blog the only comments you have made has been calling BS a 12 year old....how politically insightful you are

TSM,

Holy crap TSM just took John McCain's position, I cant believe it. You know the distorted hundred years war quote....

He's OK with us being in Korea, Germany, or any other country All long as troops are not dying. what a concept.

Its funny because less than a month ago he was saying that means being at war for a hundred years. Completely distorting and taking out of context what McCain said.

Do you want to retract your statement or are you finally coming out saying that you distorted McCain statement???

Anti,

Just like McCain, we did not support the stategy in Iraq and called for the change.

You're right if we left Iraq when Obama tried to legislate it there would have been major problems, but since we are only leaving after the Iraqi's can defend their country, we won't have to come back, that's the point of the surge to help that country get control of itself.

Iraqi provinces are being turned over and they are running things, that's why we are leaving now, seriously pay attention.

The whole point is so it doesn't turn into western Iran or any other tyrants backyard....Have you paid attention to any part of this war besides what MS NBC reports????

One of the reasons we didn't prevail in VN was because the powers at be in North VN looked at the war protesters at home in the US and calculated the will of the people was not with the war.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease and the war protesters were much louder than the  "silent majority"

This strengthened the resolve of the North Vietnamese Regulars and flowed down through their cadres of VC in the rural areas of VN.

The same thing is happening in the ME.

TSM I repeat you are missing my point. Did I say we are currently successful  in Iraq and have accomplished everything we set out to do or should do, no did not say that.

I said that bringing every troop home is not the determinant of success, because we still have people in Japan and Germany and we were successful there. You are beating a dead horse here, and arguing against a point that was never made.

I still think they should allow us old guys to go and be cooks, or whatever. My wife gets all over me for saying this,  but I'd go and do whatever I'm still able to.

Supply, Food Service, Commo, Motor Pool, Armory even. There are all kinds of things we could do.

We've lived pretty good lives. If we took a mortor round or rocket as an REMF, at least it would save some young guy from it. Or it would allow him to be out counting coup for our side, something us old guys can't do very well anymore.

Holy crap,

EARTH TO TSM

you just agreed with McCain about staying in Iraq as long as no one was dying would be OK and now are going back to the distorted story to back up what you are saying, pick the lie or the truth and then stick to it.

Hey TSM you know Out troops are already coming home because thanks to the surge, the Iraqi govt. and security forces are strong enough to defend the country.

You should I have only being telling you since the beginning.

BakersfieldBubble,

When did telling people facts becoming bad? When it doesn't go with the party line of "we lost the war"? Ballerina girl just gave you facts and then you went off about why don't you join the military like its a bad thing. I'm proud of my service and so it every other member of the military, your a piece of crap to insult me and the men and women that came before me.

You have crossed a line most decent people don't cross. Military is not some sort of punishment you piece of crap, serving your country is the best thing you can do.

Very well said Chico, I agree with you.

LMFAO!

Who cares if you serve I don't! I dont think "serving our contry is the best thing you can do". Unfortunately, for the poor and uninformed its the only thing they can do.

My family served in the military and my live was changed significantly because of it. So my perspective is much different than yours.

As we become more technology oriented, wouldn't it make sense for us older guys to take some of even the combat arm's jobs? (like tanks, arty, etc.)

Seems backwards our young boys are defending us in a way. I've always prided myself in being their defender. Then they their boys, and so on.

Just seems backwards sometimes.............

Infantry = young guys, OK (esp SF)

but the rest of it.................. no age limit depending upon the job. Most of us still even have our dog tags so Uncle could save some money! ROTFLMAO!

I think I've been paying attention Supe. We just disagree on the outcome. Please don't try to talk down to me. Let me ask you this....if and when we do leave, and things go to hell in a handbasket, who will you blame? Will you blame George for going in in the first place, will you blame George because he used bad tactics, or will you lay the blame on the succeeding President, whomever that might be.

Bakersfield Bubble, if I shared any of the same viewpoints a you I would shudder at the thought that you would present our views in this manner. I am glad we appear to disagree on most things.

Bakersfield bubble

I think the point of it is,

Is that your don't care,

it doesn't matter to you, whatever your perspective, you seem to think it OK to cross a line. Whatever your view is fine but don't make light of the sacrifices that have been made my millions so that you can sit there and disregard their incredible service.

I don't care what your feelings are or perspective is on the military, all I care about is that you respect it.

I don't like or care about alot of things others do, but I respect it.

that's something someone in your family should have taught you.

What kind of country is it if you MUST not talk bad about certain things. Give me a break. I can say anything I want here and in public about the military. They are above no one and not beyond any criticism. Maybe in your shallow mind but not mine. They do a job just like anyone else.

Anti,

I think that we should only leave when that country wont turn to a H in a HB, but right i see what your saying what if despite the intention and when we leave things go south.

The blame really goes to the people that are doing the killing making it a HB, the blame goes to the Iraqi security forces that did not stand up to it if they falter and lastly the blame goes to the US for not ensuring they could handle it. Its not a President that gets the blame and I think this is where we differ, it doesn't matter who the President is, it is America that is fighting, not bush, not obama, not mccain. Its the country that will be judged.

Now the thing not to forget is Bush did get us in there with no strategy to get us out, or at least not one that was any good. But despite being in a bad spot we never "lost". And we surely never should have just given up and let Iraq get run over by any tyrants, religious or ideological. which would have happened if some got there way.

Bush gets blamed for bad strategy of not getting out, But the next President wont see the bad days of the war because of the Surge and I think the credit should go not only to the troops but the people that pushed for the surge, McCain and company, Paterus the Commander on the ground should get credit.

It should also be noticed that even now as the surge has worked and tremendously made a difference, the Reid's who called the war lost, and the obama who said it would worsen things, were wrong. That is poor judgment and it should be noted.

Overall the blame and credit should go to the country, and its motivator should be recognized.