The ObaMessiah -- YEAY!!!!

We'll ALL be rich...... RICH I tell ya!!!

We need to get rid of the IRS and establish a flat tax.

It is a very pathetic economic reality that we face today.  Phil Gramm thinks we have a "mental recession" going on, but the facts point to the greatest concentrated wealth in the fewest hands in the history of the country. Not even the Great Depression found so few with so much, and so many with so little. Phil Gramm continues to feather his own nest with a huge salary and stock options from UBS. He helped write much of the legislation that has created this financial crisis, and his own bank is one of the biggest culprits in fueling  our current credit crunch.  In China they would have put this guy before a firing squad, not parade him about with some out of touch ancient candidate offering hapless homilies without one solution to our problems.

Our government is going into crisis mode. Our economy has been in crisis for the past seven years. I can see why you might be worried, because I believe the nation is on the verge of financial collapse. A handful of foreign entities own the US economy.  Our major corporations are not American companies. They are global multinational companies who exploit populations equally throughout the globe, and can relocate to offices in any country that better suits their financial interests. People in this country are saps for allowing monopolies and cartels in every industry to control all supply, and hence game demand and price.

There is not one fu#@ing economist who will explain to the world why oil is selling at $140 a barrel when there is ample supply, and the the same product less than a decade earlier was valued at under $20 a barrel. Oil, like so many commodities, has a bottleneck with very few hands at the controls. We think we live in a democracy. That is an illusion. We live in a corporate autocracy with almost no say, except the phone we may buy and what channel we choose to watch that have all been provided by the same few corporate autocrats. Keep drinking that kool-aid if you think anything will change with this election. The only thing I see happening is more of the same, but on a much grander scale. War will escalate and we are going to find fewer allies.

Most Americans are dupes who are so struck by celebrity they don't realize they have had their wallets picked clean, and have no recourse. Chico, how does one you pay taxes on negative earnings?

Revive it? I thought it was still going on?

Adam, ML can laugh but my earnings (under full absorption costing) can really be negative which will affect me on down the line......

I ameliorate my taxes (Income-FTB&IRS)  to the greatest degree (legally) possible but still pay thousands in property, sales, excise, use, ad val and other forms of taxation. I even pay quite a bit in Kern Property taxes on parcels therein so I do my share to keep your County Govt going.......

Adam -- obviously I don't expect to get blood out of a stone. I suspect the people you are talking about are Unearned Income types who actually get a credit. If you want a lot of social programs it is going to have to come from somewhere. The middle class is squeezed {me for example} and I really don't mind lifting the cap on social (FICA) for instance. But it is what it is and the vaunted  "rich" are paying the bulk of our national taxes right now (income). Of course the more regressive forms of tax (sales, gas, etc.) are disproportionally paid %-wise by the poor. That is indeed a problem.

I don't like the flat tax FSG because the % will be much higher than you are being told trust me. And I have structured my businesses to where I can get my effective rates to acceptable levels. The tax code is too strong a  "social engineering tool" for the Dems to ever allow it anyway......

I can explain that if you need me to (but I think you know what I mean).......

Obama like Carter is an idiot, you can not expect anything but horrible results from raising taxes. It simple economics that even i can understand. Alot of people that defend Obama and his economic policies dont know what they are supporting, or are political hacks.

Thats really the only categories, no one knowingly would support his crazy idea's if they looked at wht that the catostrofic results of siad increases are, less jobs and no growth.

Obama's medicine to a recession, that he made up the definition to, is to raise taxes,

idiot.

Small business and individuals will be hurt most by his crap, ironically the huge companies who employ thousand will most likely only be the ones to handle his outragous policies, well the ones that he doesn't drive out of the country

80% of businesses are classified as small businesses (like me). Obama will absolutely KILL us! And small businesses provide for most of the jobs in this country.

He will also kill the stock market (over 50% of Americans have some form of instruments in stock market be they equities, bonds, etc.) with his proposed increases in cap gains and dividend taxation increases.

Just a fact Jack................

(and witter -- he will EXACERBATE REDISTRIBUTIONISM -- good catch!)

Well, BS, what do YOU propose instead? You always talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

The "top 1 percent" of Americans received 21.2 percent of all personal income in 2005, according to Internal Revenue Service data. That's a big jump from 2004, when the top 1 percent's share was 19 percent, and slightly above the 2000 figure of 20.8 percent - the modern-day peak. The bottom 50 percent of Americans got 12.8 percent of all 2005 income, down from 13.4 percent in 2004 and 13 percent in 2000.

The "top 1 percent" starts at incomes of $400,000.

The richest 1 percent of Americans also received about $491 billion in tax breaks between 2001 and 2008. That's nearly the same amount as U.S. debt held by China -- $493 billion -- in the form of Treasury securities.

The 400 highest income earners together earned $85.6 billion in 2005, an average income of $213.9 million each. These 400 households, referred to by the Wall Street Journal as "the Fortunate 400," took home 1.15 percent of all income earned in the U.S. The average federal income tax rate for the group was 18.23 percent. Why so low? Because 86 % of the income was capital gains and taxed at a 15 percent rate.

Without proper context, Chico, your claims are misleading. I'm not surprised the highest earners pay such a high percentage of the collected taxes. They've also got a disproportionate share of the income.

We won't all be rich, but we'll all be better off.

An example of why we are where we are is the 1031 tax exemption. Any business property can be sold  and the resulting capital gains can be mitigated by simply moving the gains into another business property. You can play this game until you die and pass the resulting estate on to designated heirs totally tax free. This is just one small dodge that the wealthy use to avoid taxes and undermine  societal responsibility.

I am no fan of the flat tax. The 80+% of the population in this country living week to week would be heavily penalized under this scheme. As usual, only the really wealthy stand to gain with this plan.

I personally think it is too late for most people in this country. We have lost our egalitarian values and find a ruling aristocracy perpetuating itself through government policy. What is so troubling is that the rich today don't even bother to promote health care or a decent education for all in this country. They are content to move their money into other parts of the world to capitalize on lower wages to build their empires and legacies. If the extremely rich people don't care about their own neighborhoods, there is not much chance to see any improvement, ever. Most really rich people care only about themselves, they could care less whether the public at large lives or dies. Most poor people feel that way too, but they've got no voice and no ablitity to do anything about it.

You won't see a huge public works program anytime soon in this country, that would make too much sense. What a concept of building back our infrastructure with unemployed and underemployed people living day to day, and that we all have a stake in. We currently have the crummiest cellular phone service in the world right here in America, because a few corporate giants stood to reap huge profits with scattered territories of service and no public voice  or government involvement. This is why predatory priced contracts of service with lengthy time stipulations have been allowed to happen as well as the huge holes of  reception coverage on every plan. Our government just looks the other way. Ten years ago phone service was affordable with a lot of competition, what changed? Gosh, we allowed all the little busted up Ma Bells to merge into one again and now we pay  through the nose for the worst services in the industrialized world. Sounds just like health care doesn't it?

Dear BS,

Can you do something besides calling people names? I am curious to find out if you know more than one trick.

Adam, sadly, no...BS is a one-trick pony.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=...

I would like an honest appraisal from you guys since I value your opinions, even if I often disagree, about Newt's plan.  He has always been at the top of my list for men running this country.

Anglo1, thanks for the link. I seldom ever agree with Newt Gingrich, but utilizing the strategic oil reserves to drop the price and punish speculation on a vital commodity sounds like a great idea to me.

I don't think there are too many on the left opposed to shale exploration/extrapolation in the Rockies. There are, however, concerns about what happens when much of what makes up those majestic mountains is not there any longer. I have seen what the results locally have been on the Elk Hills project that Occidental has been drilling and pumping these past several years. The valley is sinking and rail lines along their routes are toppling. I do know the imprint on the area where drilling occurs for shale is thought to be very slight. 

Brazil gained energy independence by harnessing sugar cane, a vastly superior and efficient biofuel than corn, which we are hell bent on rewarding the Cargill's of the world while spending more energy than we will ultimately gain on manufacturing its energy component, ethanol. 

I saw an interview on one of the networks with an oil expert (cannot remember his name but he does have a book, of course) who maintains that any find only has a very small window of peak capture. This period is about 18 months before it falls back to very modest levels that only pump out 20% or less for the remainder of the well's life. He does not believe this global energy problem is one we can drill our way out of. If T. Boone Pickens actually believes that, and is currently spending a bundle advertising the claim we cannot drill our way out of this mess, I have to think we should be looking hard at other alternatives.

I believe we all have to recognize we live in a fragile eco-system, and that many of today's factory type practices need to be reined in and eliminated altogether. We have over fished the oceans while poisoning fresh streams with our waste. The way we treat all livestock, and grow much of our produce with the resulting toxins we eat or see spread by land, river and air is killing off whole species at an alarming rate along with many of us caught in the tangled web. We need big changes. I think Newt is a bright guy. But I also think he is a highly paid guy from people pushing the status quo. People usually get a populist bone to play with as a throw away by the powers that be who are intent on some thing we don't get to see ensuring their dominance in the market place.

After looking at Newt's video, several comments. First, he's got them just backwards. Number three, developing alternatives, should be first. Petroleum, as a whole, has no future, for a number of reasons. In the very short term, he's right about releasing the strategic reserves. How much impact on the speculators...I can't say. Viable alternatives would accomplish the same thing.

Second, shale and tar sands. Yes, there's oil locked up in them thar hills. It also takes a tremendous amount of water to process. Much like California, there isn't water for the job. (Which is why ethanol is a non-starter here, primarily. Takes way too much water to process. Which is also the problem with sugar cane. Won't be done here.)

Three, I agree with adam...always look at the motves. TBP isn't pushing his plan if it's not good for TBP. Newt isn't pushing his plan without knowing who's footing the bill. I can guarantee you Newt's backers will profit handsomely if his plan is put into place.

I think Democrats should be banned from running for office....the only thing they know how to handle is raise taxes and expand socialist regime. This is America not Cuba.

anglo - I agree with a lot of what adam just stated.

One of the biggest issues I see with the entire energy issue is that both sides of the coin (those that want to exploit the resources we have (ocean, artic reserves, mountain shales), and those that are against it) do not have a truely intelligent answer to the question.

Gingrich's second idea is where we should be pouring the vast majority of our time and energy.  The truth and reality about oil is that it is not a renewable resource (unless you're willing to wait many, many years...).  Sure, we could spend our time, money and energy drilling offshore, in the artic, and elsewhere, but is that really going to solve the real problem?  We have plenty of brilliant minds who've been figuring out the real solutions, but neither political side has really given them the opportunity.

Focus on the root issue, and not the symptom.

sackland, exactly what are you trying to accomplish by posting that?

First of all, good luck banning a political party in a free country, and second of all, you'd better get used to Democrats. They'll be in charge soon. 

Are you some sort of fascist or something? I always wonder about people that make such comments. It's like you hate Americans just because they believe in different things than you do. What's up with that?

 What a concept of building back our infrastructure with unemployed and underemployed people living day to day, and that we all have a stake in.

I have always agreed with you on rebuilding our deteriorated infrastructure Adam. I have kids that are ever day out driving heavy loads on our bridges and highways......... We just don't agree on how to get there. But that's OK. Someday we'll be forced to get there, by hook or by crook....................

You people still see no light at the end of the tunnel because your blinded by the blunt nose lizard

700 Billion a year leaving this country for oil      Your paying close to $ 5.00 a gal   and still praise that lizard

Wake up America    bring the jobs back to America     We start drilling now  off shore and Anwar and watch the price drop

We could be the Oil Captial of the world and start receiveing back that $ 700 billion    JOBS JOBS JOBS

allRED - the same could be said for you.  Why would you want to flog a horse that's got an early deathbed?

He's not flogging the horse.

It has colic and he's trying to get it to stand up.

Its the only chance it has to survive

(since you like analogies)

FSG:   Why you want to see this country go into a depression   We can't continue to pay out $700 billion a year

You people are complaining jobs out source   Your more willing to Finance the outside World and Bitc---h

This Country has more Oil than all others combined   and yet the Lizard keeps your eyes closed

You must be a teacher  or one that went to College  and (Learded)   your Socialist Idea's

Bring down America Vote Democrat

Well we better get some oil in that ol horse pretty quick cause shes gettin ready to twist a gut..

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING!..And there are some who truly believe Obama can catch it! WE THE PEOPLE need to take charge, not some inexperienced party golden boy. Until the special interests are no longer running the country things will not get better. I fail to see how the economy has been in crisis for the last seven years. The railroad has had trains parked all over teh system because there just arent enough locomotives to pull them. SOMEBODY is buying all that stuff. Get the price of a barrel of oil back into reasonable limits and this "crisis" will fade away. People aren't afraid to spend money as it has been in the past, they simply don't have as much to spend and the current administration is trying to keep the government from becoming part of the problem with higher taxes whereas the left still thinks we can tax our way into prosperity.

I still don't think Obama will win, but should he pull it off, I will be anxious to see if he gets any more accomplished than the "new" congress has done. I am skeptical.

Re locomotives -- re-read Atlas Shrugged...................

allRED - you are absolutely obtuse.

If we were to change our mode of thinking from energy consumers to energy conservationists, we'd be able to kick our dependence not only on foreign oil, but all petroleum.

Do the world a favor and educate yourself a bit:

http://www.epa.gov/reg5rcra...

http://www.nationmaster.com...

http://www.eia.doe.gov/

For the record, I'm not a socialist, I'm not a Democrat, I don't support Obama, and if anything.. I'm not complaining - I'm laughing at everyone who's throwing money away because they decided to buy an expensive automobile with an expensive appetite.

Well we better get some oil in that ol horse pretty quick cause shes gettin ready to twist a gut..

I don't think its too late.............

Remember, we're talking about a real AQHA here............. ;-)

I don't doubt that if we opened up areas currently banned from being drilled that it would help to provide a temporary solution.  However, I don't support a temporary solution - I support a permanent one.

No, Motopoet, the sky is not falling. It is the dollar you see dropping daily, along with jobs and home equity.  Obama, in all likelihood, will become President  but what does he inherit? He stands to inherit the biggest mess since Roosevelt took over from Hoover.

The private industrial sectors, excluding health care, seem incapable of hiring people these days in this country. The only money most people have been spending this latest decade has been borrowed money from their now tapped out home equity.  No way do average family incomes between $35k  to $65k  buy homes worth $300k to $450k without major repercussions. Wall Street banks have done virtually the same thing borrowing on the come of anticipated appreciation of assets.  In this deregulated banking decade most of these banks have never had enough real currency or assets to cover any major losses of valuation. I won't even mention who owns our Treasury notes and really controls our currency, but it ain't us any longer.

All I know is that most people are at, or getting very close, to the breaking point. We have no energy plan! We have no health care plan! Our plan to stimulate the economy is to tell people to go out and shop on their government provided stimulous check, which is just more borrowed money. Anybody see AT&T, Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, GM, Chrysler, Ford, Boeing, Cargill, Proctor & Gamble, ADM, General Mills, United  or American Airlines, Time-Warner, Disney, Annheuser-Busch, Pepsi, Coke or GE hiring big numbers of people and expanding their businesses here in this country. Do you see any major plants from any of those "American" companies  going to all the hurting states and cities in this country? The only recent positive business news I've seen this week was that Toyota announced they were going to finally allow the American division to build the Prius here in this country.

Maybe enough people will march  and get behind real reform and competitive fairness in the marketplace.  Who you gonna call? Trust-busters!

Cargill sells off some damn good livestock trailers!

Moto, real incomes have been stagnant for the past thirty years. How do you think people have "spent money in the past"? Why do you think the banks recently had bankruptcy laws changed to make it harder to get out from under debt? People used any equity in their houses to spend spend spend the past seven years. Certainly not the stock market making things go (what was it at in Jan 2001? What is it now? Think the Average Joe has seen any gains there?), so how has the economy grown over the past two decades?

What happened with the S&L bailout in the '80s? Do you think Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae are far behind these days? It'll make that look like a walk in the park. What happens when people's houses (their largest investment by far) are worth half of what they paid for it? Of course, the losses aren't truly realized until they sell, or are foreclosed because they are upside-down on their loans and simply walk away from any "equity" they paid in (because it simply evaporated)?