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Hardliner4freedom - > Starship Sigma +5 -> A Different Argument for Universal Health Care
A Different Argument for Universal Health Care

One stance that I hold which is decidedly left-wing is my support for Universal Health Care.  However, here comes an argument from what could be considered a conservative angle.  Let me set the stage.
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A few months ago, my wife's individual insurance policy suffered a gouging 28 percent rate increase.  No, she didn't lower her deductible.  No, she didn't cross an age classification boundary.
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This was a pure, gratuitous, bolt-from-the-blue 28 percent rate gouge.  And my wife is by no means alone.  Everyone, it seems, is getting gouged deep and hard at every turn over the last few years.
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Wouldn't you, Joe and Jane Public, like to be able to see the actual accounting, the actual dollar-by-dollar breakdown that supposedly justifies these ridiculously soaring health care costs?
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I sure would.
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Well, a move toward single-payer health coverage -- combined with a highly popular drive for transparent government -- could finally allow the public to see inside the black box of health care costs.  And demand remedies.  And be able to vote for remedies.

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Now, there are certain possibilities that accompany national health care that reeeeeally make me nervous.  One big unsettling factor is who is governing; I sure wouldn't want a James Dobson government deciding what my medical choices are going to be.
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But these runaway costs -- which have far outstripped inflation for as long as I remember -- must be ground to a halt right now.
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Universal health care combined with increased transparency in government could be the key that enables the American public to demand accountability in the health care industry and shine the spotlight on cases of health care gouging.
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With gouging 28 percent rate jumps year after year, there surely is a lot of gravy-training going on somewhere.  Universal health care could be our keys to demand investigations.

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posted by Hardliner4freedom on Friday, October 20, 2006 at 04:37 PM
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posted by ProgressivePete2 on Oct 20, 2006 at 02:57 PM
Stupid blog spam protector device lost my post because apparently it was an "i" instead of an "L"

anyway, H4F, check out this diary. It pertains to your blog.

http://dailykos.com/storyon...

I wonder how different this issue would be today if the media and congressional republicans would have engaged in a dialog with Hillary when she was trying to fix our medical care system?



Sonsabitches. I foiled you this time. I copied my post before hitting submit. luckily there aren't any L's or i's in this stupid code. better copy it anyway.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Oct 20, 2006 at 03:04 PM
Eerie timing, Pete.  That was written the same day (today) as mine.
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As I wrote, I do have reservations about national health care -- but the current situation is far worse.
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People can tell all the scare stories they want about national health care in other countries -- but even those stories sound like an improvement to the 44+ million Americans who aren't part of any system.
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Besides, we're America, remember?  We can make it work -- because we're the greatest.  Right?
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Oct 20, 2006 at 03:09 PM
The biggest hurdle that I see is attempting to remove as much of the buerocracy as possible. We don't want paper pushers acting as doctors like they are currently in the insurance business. There are too many hands in the pot scooping up profits wherever they can. If we can create a system that isn't suseptable to fraud while delivering the best health care possible, we'll all be much healthier, and probably won't "need" as many pills either.
posted by anglo1 on Oct 20, 2006 at 03:30 PM
My wifes premiums are up22%.  I think one problem is the one size fits all mentality.  Neither of us will be having children, tonsilictomies, vasectomies, non-smokers why should we have the same coverage as people that fit this example.  Customize plans to individual needs.  By law anyone that shows up at a hospital for care must be admitted and given care regardless of their ability to pay.  Same for calling an ambulance, you can call 911 everyday and they must take you to a medical facility.  I have dealt with peope who have learned how to use the system and I'm afraid they would abuse the  universal care system to the point of failure.  Have ever seen the way DR. bill cash patients compared the insured? Usually much less.  Why?
posted by TomW on Oct 20, 2006 at 03:37 PM
How many of those deadbeat who abuse the system would it take to bring the system down?  The reason right now doctors bill cash patients so much less is that the amount of work that goes into properly filing and collecting insurance is huge.  If there were one system, with supplementals others could buy, the paperwork would go down immensely.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Oct 20, 2006 at 03:49 PM
I've thought about the bureaucracy end of the issue, and its potential for problems.  Someone might even offer up public education as an example of wasteful bureaucracy and wonder why we'd want to subject health care to same.
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The difference is the degree we value each.  I honestly don't think enough of us value education enough to demand real, thoughtful reforms.
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But health care hits each and every one of us close to home.  Inefficiencies and shortcomings in a health care bureaucracy would be immediately felt; we wouldn't have the dubious luxury of pushing off reform to some ever-distant future.
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Unlike the current sluggish response to education grievances, health care grievances would effect a strong and immediate demand from the public.  I don't think we'd allow a universal health care system to reach the state of the education bureaucracy.
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Oct 20, 2006 at 03:52 PM
Insurance companies have set prices that they come up with for different services. It's usually way more than the doctor would normally charge. This is how they are able to justify raising your premiums over and over. Their costs "go up" so yours have to also. The link I posted above is a story about a doctor dealing with these companies. You have a great point anglo about not needing to be covered for braces, vasectomies, etc. With a good single payer system, you wouldn't have to worry about it. You would just get the care you needed and not have to pay for the CEO of the insurance company's new yacht and Lamborghini, oh and let's not forget his golden parachute of $45 million just for getting fired.
posted by anglo1 on Oct 20, 2006 at 03:57 PM
How about just screwing up so bad to make it worse.  When was the last time you were at an emergency room on a week end evening.  I have had the same women call for an ambulance 5-6 times  a day, day after day.  The police  threatened to charge her with something to no avail.  One person tied up the ambulance service for an entire town for hrs. per day.
posted by tkozy on Oct 20, 2006 at 04:00 PM



The number of layers of administrative charges in American health care is unbelievable..

Through Social Security I have Medicare Part A, Part B, Part D…

Then I have an HMO that subcontracts my care to a Doctors Medical Group. I am Also assigned to a hospital , Laboratory, Physical therapy, Chiropractor, acupuncturist, Pharmacy.

And the list goes on. CEO and Administration drawing a profit at every level....

All levels of this care could be provided at one central location. One Administrative group handling all the paper work.

Hey! That’s kind of like a universal health care system. Maybe it will work..…

For twenty years of my life.. My doctors were with out a doubt incompetent and guilty of malpractice in some cases..

In the last five years. I have had fantastic care. But in fact. My great care. Was just the luck of the draw. I was assigned, I did not get to choose, a doctor that knew what she was talking about.. A new doctor out of school for only 3 years. One who hadn’t grown accustomed to the idea that everything is caused by either the flu or nerves.

A doctor that hadn’t fallen victim to the old tale.

If you hear hoof beats. It’s a Horse. Not a Zebra.

So much for the idea that Universal health care takes away your power of Choice. America’s health Care power of choice is denied because of financial ability.


I have had broken bones. Hepatitis, herniated disks, torn muscles. Spondyliotheisis, syringomyelia, cancer, fibromylecia. And all the normal sicknesses. Many things that could have killed me. So I consider myself quite lucky.

But luck is no way to run a health care system.. 

The following happened to me. And is a common practice throughout the United States..


There is no competition in the American Health insurance system. Only collusion.. With Hospital administration, to defraud the American taxpayer…

I brought to small claims court in 1989 a claim against a local hospital. In the claim I declared that unfortunately for both my health insurance company and the hospital that provided me service. I was mistakenly mailed the insurance company invoice .

1. My insurance was a 90/10 health insurance plan…

2. The bill sent to me was for $10,000.00 dollars. (rounding off #)

3. Bill sent to Insurance company was for $2500.00 dollars

My argument was that my portion should be $250.00 not $1000.00. I argued that it is not proper for them to charge the uninsured $10,000.00 for a procedure that could be performed at a profit for less than $3500.00.

I also argued that the same hospital had refused to accept Medicaid patients because a typical Medicaid re-imbursement was 66%. The Accountant for the hospital agreed that Medicaid would have re-imbursed the hospital apx. $6700.00. ($3200.00 more than the combined insurance company and my deductible payment) And that the main concern for the hospital. Was government intrusion into their medical practices and financials.

I argued, why would you refuse a patient that was going to provide you double the insurance company payment???

When pressed they admitted that they refused all but emergency medical care at the insistence of the Health insurance company..

I argued that was defrauding the American Taxpayer.

The hospital also admitted that they would quite unashamedly charge the next uninsured patient the full $10.000.00, never mind the contract price with the insurance company..

And they would continue to refuse all but emergency service for Medicaid patients and bill the Government the full price as they had in the past. It was their right to charge as they please..


The judge read the portion of the insurance contract that stated my deductible was not based on the contract price, but rather whatever the hospital billed to me..

I told the Judge I understand what the contract said. But I was also under the impression that the insurance company could not be in collusion with the hospital. It was representing me in their contract with the hospital. And that the insurance company should never be allowed to enter into a agreement that allowed it to prosper, KNOWING, that the agreement caused me to suffer unreasonably..

After the Judge reading the riot act to the insurance company and the hospital. And expressing deep regret to me..

I lost.

But 15 years later.. Another case identical to mine, was re-filled. By someone with a bit more time and money than I had. In Superior Court..

The insurance company and hospital was found at wrong. And order to not enter into contracts in expectation of recovering losses from the uninsured..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

posted by tkozy on Oct 20, 2006 at 09:37 PM

America is ranked beneath Costa Rica!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

America is the only industrialized nation in the world that does not have a government sponsored, single payer health system.
And it is The LEAST accessible. MOST Expensive . Ranked only 37th in level of care...From:

 http://www.photius.com/rank...

The World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.
Source: WHO World Health Report - See also Spreadsheet Details (731kb)

------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------

Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra

34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba

posted by randomfactor on Oct 21, 2006 at 07:13 AM
"There are very few problems which cannot be solved by the judicious use of high explosive."  --Anonymous
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Consider also how much of the nation's health-insurance paperwork is dedicated to seeing that people *DON'T* get care.   Denying procedures, prescribing length of hospital stay, denying claims for insufficient documentation, etc. 
posted by tkozy on Oct 21, 2006 at 01:56 PM

It’s simple. The caring business owner.. Will be driven out of business. If he is forced to match benefits with the foreign corporation that works in the environment of a single payer health care system..

Ours is a money making machine.. Not a health care system..

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