I didn't feel able to go hybrid this time 'round but I picked out my car and transmission specifically for gas economy (I get 40 hwy and just under 30 city--of course Bakersfield isn't really "city." 

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And I bought a bicycle with collapsable baskets a couple weekends ago for short trips.  Of course, I can't fit even one of the spouses on that one...

The only viable current solution is hydrogen. And not necessarily the fuel cell. Internal combustion engines can run efficiently on hydrogen. In much the same way that Natural Gas engines run today.

Hydrogen can be produced using nothing more than renewable resources. Hydrogen is not just a fuel. It is a energy storage medium for renewable resources. A means to transport renewable energy.

Please read the following, then imagine the same type of project in the Tehachapi’s :

I imagine entropy happened to it, Tom.  The energy that goes into compressing the air is greater than the energy you get back out.  It may be lighter or more ecofriendly than battery storage, but to me that means you just need better batteries developed.

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Now, if you had an inexhaustible clean source of electricity to power it...you wouldn't need to.

Hydrogen really *ISN'T* a fuel, but as you said an energy-storage medium.  It may be a great way of transporting wind energy without using electric cables, though.  Especially if the turbines are at sea, which I seem to recall has a fair bit of electrolyzable water in the vicinity.

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Hydrogen leaks *VERY* easily, though.  Our existing natural gas pipelines can't handle it.

Random says:

Now, if you had an inexhaustible clean source of electricity to power it

TK says:

It’s called Wind, Solar, Wave, Tidal etc. (read post above)

TK continues..

The big problem with air power. Is that air is a low grade form of energy storage. It in itself is not a fuel like hydrogen.

Random says:

Hydrogen leaks *VERY* easily, though. Our existing natural gas pipelines can't handle it. 

TK says:

Just a portion of what has already been spent in the Iraq Wars. Would have built the entire infrastructure needed to supply America with hydrogen.

Middle East problem solved.

Just a portion of what has already been spent in the Iraq Wars would have solved a *LOT* of our problems.

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And that "surge"?  Turns out Bush was lying about the cost of it from the beginning.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stor...

A "fuel" is something you find lying around that you can burn.  If you have to manufacture it, it's an energy-storage device.  Some are more efficient than others--I have my doubts about the efficiency of compressed air (there's a lot of waste heat in the process, for one thing). 

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You're going to lose energy at every step of the game.  The trick is to minimize those steps.

Random

Imagine Hydrogen powered farm equipment. Hydrogen obtained from renewable resource located on the farm itself. In effect, after a initial capital investment. Cheap fuel for the farm.

Lowering the cost of fuel for farm equipment. Will encourage more mechanization on the farm.

More mechanization will reduce the desire to hire illegals.

Fewer illegals will mean more secure borders.

And renewable domestic resources will solve many of our problems in the middle east

Shred dollar bills and you get a combustible product.  In the long run, hydrogen has a place in the total scheme, but a relatively minor one (IMHO).

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The basic problem with our energy economy is that it puts all of our baskets onto too few eggs.  As Uncle Mao said once, "let a thousand flowers bloom."  There is no one answer to our energy problem except perhaps conservation, which is *ALWAYS* a good idea.  Hydrogen for energy storage in out-of-the-way places; methane and (some) ethanol in farm areas, wind and water and OTEC and tidal after careful assessment of the drawbacks of each. 

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The reason Shrub's pushing hydrogen and ethanol is that big oil and big ag stand to make billions from it, not because it has obvious advantages over other methods.

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IF there were a single egg which would save us, it would likely be controlled fusion.  Which can produce H2 semi-directly as one of its possible outputs.  Take a tenth of the Iraq budget and put it into fusion research and you might have had a breakthrough by now.  Perhaps--you can't count on breakthroughs.

The Diesel engine was invented by Rudolf Diesel and pattented in 1892. It was originally designed to burn several different fuels, the main one being COAL DUST. It wasn't invented for Farmers to grow their own fuel. That's B.S. Rudy invented it, but it was perfected by work from a number of Engineers over the years. Actually, Isuzu, in Japan, made the diesel engine into what we all know it to be today. Isuzu started building diesel powered cars as far back as the mid 1930's. Their diesel engines are far better than all others.

Hydrogen is EXTREMELY unstable. If you think a gasoline tank blows up really well, you should see a Hydrogen cylinder go up...........WOW! It'd be GREAT to be in a traffic accident with a hydrogen fuel cell in the car. There wouldn't be any Funeral expenses for anyone in the immediate area. They'd be gone.........POOF!

Since any fuel we use is flammable, it is inherently dangerous. Hydrogen is often used as a gaseous fuel, which makes it similar to natural gas and town gas, which have been used in America, Europe, and Asia for heating and lighting for almost two centuries. One difference is that hydrogen is nontoxic, so it’s not harmful to breathe. It’s also so light that it scatters immediately upward when there is a leak, rather than pooling about, polluting groundwater, and soaking into clothes. The end assessment is that when hydrogen is handled with care appropriate to any gaseous fuel, it is safer than fuels in standard use.

Tony says:

Their diesel engines are far better than all others.

TK says:

The Duramax better than the ISB? Not in this lifetime.

Re:  the Hindenburg disaster.  While it's difficult to imagine, seeing the newsreel footage, two-thirds of the passengers *SURVIVED* the crash.  Because hydrogen burns *UP*, as you said.

Random

It is a scene etched into the minds of the entire world. A horrendous disaster.

But imagine a 1 inch hole punched into a 52 gallon gasoline tank (Dodge PU). The fuel doesn’t completely burn immediately. It rolls down the street into the sewers/gutters and burns for a very long time. Spreading flames over a large area.

If the same thing happens to a hydrogen tank It would create a blow torch like flame in the immediate area of the hole. But there would not be fuel creeping about the roadway. And because there is not oxygen in the tank. It can not explode. Also the hydrogen would not be confined once it leaves the tank. Therefore no explosion.

Mix oxygen and hydrogen into a balloon and set it on fire. You will have a pretty good percussion. But the flames are confined to a small area. And basically rise up Not disturbing the burning paper it was sitting on a greatly as you would expect.

Mattloch,

"Don't forget, the diesel motor was invented to give farmers a power source where they could grow their own fuel."

This is what I referred to as B.S.............and it is.