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TomW - > All Politics Are Local -> What are you doing to be Green?
What are you doing to be Green?

There is a lot of talk about being green these days and a lot of ways to do it.  Since most of us aren't building homes from scratch, what are you doing to make your own home more green?

I suggest compact fluorescent lighting as the first step.  Fluorescent bulbs generally outlast their incandescent counterparts and beat them on energy efficiency by a lot.  I'd recommend trying some of the new ones.  They aren't the flickering nightmares that once dominated the market.  If you've tried them and really can't live with it, try putting in dimmer switches everywhere.  The new electrical codes are going to require them everywhere that is not required to have fluorescent lighting (since most fluorescents still don't work with dimmer switches).  Also, a regular bulb run at 80% power lasts a long longer.

Of course, we've all looked at our thermostats as well, making sure they are set to a higher or lower temperature, depending on the season.  One of the other things I like are the magnetic sheets that go over the grills of your system in rooms you're not using.  For many people, heating and cooling unused areas of their houses is a big waste of energy. 

Another big loser is the drafts from old windows and doors.  The best way to find them is by holding a match or stick of incense and moving it around where your doors and windows meet the jambs.  A little roll of foam from your local hardware store can do wonders. 

These are the very basic things, literally the least you can do and still do something.  Next time, we'll bump it up with some stuff on how you heat your water.

Posted in these Groups:
Topics: Green, energy saving, homes, Makes Things Go
posted by TomW on Thursday, December 7, 2006 at 06:37 PM
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posted by TomW on Dec 7, 2006 at 06:39 PM
Pretty basic stuff for some, but it's amazing how few people do these things.
posted by randomfactor on Dec 7, 2006 at 06:41 PM

Done those, every socket in the house save one.  Our PG&E bill was $49 this month, up from $29 the past month.  But found a draft through the kitty-door to the garage.  I'll be plugging that tonight--cat generally ignores it anyway, and we had to move the box inside or face her wrath.

.

Oh, and multiple spouses really helps you stay warmer at night.  Another tip.

posted by jasonsperber on Dec 7, 2006 at 06:44 PM
What do you think of radiant heating, Tom?  Our 1952 ranch has a radiant heating system in the concrete slab, with heated water being pumped through a closed system laid in the slab.  It works great in some places, but in others, not so much--have to use a space heater in the baby's room (besides having installed new windows before her birth).  For your next post about heating water--we installed a tankless Rinnai water heater during our remodel this summer, and like it.
posted by TomW on Dec 7, 2006 at 06:45 PM
Multiple spouses, Random?  I can't see how that is cheaper than a space heater... (ducks and runs)
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Dec 7, 2006 at 06:49 PM

Another place to look is for appliances that use power even when off.

I once did a throrough audit of my home for invisible energy wasters.  I yanked out what added up to a 240-watt continuous load that was doing absolutely nothing.

A TV that used 9 watts when off;

Two "backup power supplies" for my computers that each used 20 watts continuously when idle;

My cable modem uses 5 watts continuously -- it's now on a switched power strip;

And other assorted slow leaks of wasted energy that I can't remember right now, but added up to quite a sum.

(Oh yeah, and stuck a compact fluorescent in my porch light.  Anything that is on for long periods benefits greatly from even small reductions in consumption.)

My electrical consumption dropped 60 percent.

posted by Hardliner4freedom on Dec 7, 2006 at 06:51 PM

And Random, I suspect my next hotel stop will sleep three women.  So there.

 

posted by randomfactor on Dec 7, 2006 at 06:56 PM

Well, some of us is just pickier than others, I guess, Hardliner...

.

By the way, check supermarkets--due to a PG&E subsidy, those compact florescents are often sold at FOUR TO THE DOLLAR.  Albertsons had 'em last time I stocked up.

posted by TomW on Dec 7, 2006 at 06:57 PM
Jason, I'm going to be putting in a Takagi in the house I'm working on.  Love the tankless.  As far as slab heat, I'm a fan of that since it does give better, more consistant heat.  The only issue I have with it is when it goes bad.  Your system is probably made with galvanized pipe, which should last another few years, but I'd recommend a pressure test at least once a year at this point to make sure you're not corrupting your foundation.  You can do it yourself, so the only cost is a pressure meter.  Basically you just create a t off of your existing system and attach the meter.  Then charge your system and shut off the fresh water supply and let it sit over night without running it.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Dec 7, 2006 at 07:00 PM

Hee hee...

I saw those bargains.  Sam's Club had them last time I stocked up.  (I try to shop at Costco now when possible, but there wasn't always a Costco nearby, so I have a Sam's membership.)

 

posted by TomW on Dec 7, 2006 at 07:01 PM
H4F, excellent point about the power strip.  The only thing I recommend against is disconnecting your computer from power while off.  There is a small battery inside that keeps things running, but you don't ever want that to go out, or you'll just lose everything.  A good way to do a power audit is with a Kill-a-Watt: http://www.the-gadgeteer.co...
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Dec 7, 2006 at 07:03 PM

Kill-A-Watt...

I built one of my own.  I'm an electronics whiz and a woodworker.

Way too many hobbies.  At least some visiting spice last weekend gave us a break.

posted by ProgressivePete2 on Dec 7, 2006 at 11:11 AM

I'm glad to report that I've signed up for recycling. I was hesitant for a long time since they charge for it, but it's sooooooo worth it. My garbage can doesn't fill up anymore, and even at every other week, the recycling doesn't fill up all the way. I'm over the fact that they can make money off of my recycling. I don't have to deal with it. If you have the room, I totally recommend it.
posted by anglo1 on Dec 7, 2006 at 11:13 AM
One of the biggest losers in efficiency is putting your heating/cooling thermostat in the hallway near your return air duct. Unless your bed and or recliner is in the hall it is not going to be as comfortable as it should be and probably more expensive.  Fluorescent through attrition.   My utilities at the central coast last month were just over $17.00, total. Here it was about $200.00.
posted by mattloch on Dec 7, 2006 at 11:40 AM
I put all of my bottles and cans in a separate bag by the curb on trash pickup days, and I have yet to see it in the morning when I leave for work. If someone else wants to make money off of it, fine, but I refuse to pay for recycling twice (don't forget, you pay CRV when buying the things in the first place). Lights are slowly being replaced with fluorescents as they go out, but I'm noticing they're pretty fickle and some have gone out mere weeks after being installed. Must be a bad batch. The place where I live is a rental, so my ability to weatherproof is somewhat limited. I've bought several new coats and sweaters over the summer (usually getting them greatly discounted- something like 70-80% off. Nothing wrong with getting a $180 sweatshirt for $22), so the thermo is turned down fairly low. Computer doubles as a heater in the bedroom, which is great during the winter but sucks during the summer. Air conditioner vent is stuffed with a foam block during the winter, so no heat loss there. Hot water tank is outside, but wrapped in so much insulation that the greatest heat loss is from the pilot light. I've looked into buying a new "container" home, but I'm waiting for property prices to drop some more before seriously looking at properties to put it on.
posted by dgrealish on Dec 7, 2006 at 11:40 AM
I recycle, but it is a hassle Pete.  Right after Thanksgiving we took off all the newspaper and cardboard.  Aye-chi-wawa!  The good news I can get my car out of the garage again.  I've held off on the recycle bin for the same reasons.  But the sticky cans, milk cartons, soda bottles and so on, are a mess.  What to do, what to do.
posted by spicessmokensong on Dec 7, 2006 at 11:44 AM

And if you want to keep your energy costs down in the summer, there's always...

Barbecue!!!

posted by TomW on Dec 7, 2006 at 12:04 PM
Mattloch, I saw some cool stuff on turning shipping containers into homes.  A lot have teak floors and they are structurally sound and stackable.  They cost under 5 grand each because it costs so much to ship them empty back to China or Japan or whereever.  I have been looking at either something downtown or something outside of town where I could pile a few of these bad boys.  The market's going to get a lot worse before it gets better though, so it's research time now.
posted by TomW on Dec 7, 2006 at 12:16 PM
I'm shocked that they charge for the recycling.  I'll bet you could set up a competing service that didn't charge and make money.  Or is this one of those city deals where they don't allow competition?
posted by adampayne on Dec 7, 2006 at 12:22 PM
Mattloch, not all individuals are as careful about recyclables. Eighty dollars a year for a blue can is cheap and it makes a big difference. You don't need to sort paper from plastic from glass from cans. It is an all in one container picked up every other week. I am amazed at the stubborn refusal by people in this city to get on board with this program, they must have relatives or friends cruising the alley dumpsters and living on the residuals.

 
posted by dgrealish on Dec 7, 2006 at 01:12 PM
Adam, if we did have relatives living off the residual income they got from recycling, what would be the problem?  My Pop took his cans in and saved the money for Christmas.  I know of others who supplement their income with "can money".  It's honest.  And it certainly ain't welfare.  Some time ago I saw a segment on a program where an immigrant couple got up at 2 am and went through garbage cans collecting cans and recyclables to put their children through college.  Not exactly a white collar job.  Mom was looking forward to the day she could sleep in.  But their youngest was in college and that day was in sight, so for them it was worth it.  Judge not lest ye be judged.
posted by mattloch on Dec 7, 2006 at 01:13 PM
Tom, the ones I've looked at have bamboo flooring, which is tougher than hardwood, renewable, and low cost. They lose some of their structural integrity when you start punching windows and doors into them, but they are still a decent alternative to traditional homes (especially mobilehomes). I don't need a large house (being a single, part-time dad), I don't have a lot of money, and I want something that is not only designed well, but can be moved to nicer properties (and possibly climes) as income grows. The ones I've seen start at around $60k, and go up based on increasing size and materials. They can appear very modern, but I've also seen a few that look very "traditional" as well. They would certainly make a sound investment for "fill-in" development around the city core (downtown), as long as you can find properties with realistic owners willing to sell. Tax-default auctions are a great source for properties, and the prices there should return to earth far earlier than privately-owned parcels.
posted by TomW on Dec 7, 2006 at 01:23 PM
The teak flooring is used in shipping containers because they are meant to withstand the rugged shipping conditions.  I love bamboo flooring though.  Tough, cheap and green.  The shipping containers can still be stacked to a 2nd or 3rd story, unless you're hacking it to death.  The only difference between them and standard housing would be the exterior siding, which can be added for little cost.
posted by bakonative on Dec 7, 2006 at 01:48 PM

I bought a Weather Station that monitors the indoor & outdoor temperature, along with wind gust, humidity inside & out, etc. Now that is winter, I watch the indoor temperature and do not turn on the heater unless it is below 68 degrees in the house.

The bad side of this is that my daughters room at the back of the house, always seems cold. But when I relocated the weather station back there it showed the same temperature! I can't figure that out, as it seems her room is always freezing.

Also, I want to go and get a magnetic thing for the vent - we have two vents in the den which is the closed room to the heating unit in garage. The den is small, and heat just blasts out of those vents!

 

posted by randomfactor on Dec 7, 2006 at 02:13 PM
That's the room the ghosts live in, Bakonative. :)
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Dec 7, 2006 at 03:17 PM
dgrealish, the way to avoid sticky/stinky cans, bottles, milk cartons is to give them a little rinse before you drop them into the bin. It helps keep your can from stinking up too.

Tom, you don't usually lose everything if that little battery goes out on your computer, but it does loose track of what time it is. My old imac has that problem. I'm almost positive that windows based computers are the same way. Your info is burned onto the hard drive, so it is very unlikely that you'd lose any files.

What's up with the recent post link? All I get is stuff from this morning.
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Dec 7, 2006 at 03:18 PM
Of course it's stamped as being from 7pm
posted by randomfactor on Dec 7, 2006 at 03:20 PM
The date stamps are being interposed in the "recent posts" list. Pete.  In four hours we'll catch up to this morning.  (I feel like Alice in Wonderland--all the running you can do to say in the same place...)
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Dec 7, 2006 at 03:27 PM
Well, things did seem to be working a little too well there for a few days.
posted by adampayne on Dec 7, 2006 at 04:35 PM
Dgrealish, I'm just not big on the dumpster divers cruising the alleys with plastic bags and stolen shopping carts, rummaging through garbage and spilling it all over the lane. I've talked to a few of these people in my neighborhood, and I find it amazing, as they reply with ants crawling on their arms stinking to the heavens, that these are not indigents but people with homes, apartments and the like just making a few bucks digging into mine and my neighbors' trash. Some are strictly for the aluminum and other metals, but others are looking for other stuff.  In a world of  growing identity  theft  I shred  all my account information, but still worry about enterprising people slipping bucks to the garbage grabbers for paperwork that can be passed along to the real malicious crooks.

The thing that Pete mentioned regarding better management of the outflow by taking the blue recycling cans and having room to spare in the old garbage can is very true. I see bunches of garbage cans throughout the neighborhoods piled to ridiculous heights each week. That would very seldom be the case with blue can  program adoption on a wide scale.  With Christmas  nearly here  I know how full a lot of those garbage cans  are going to be with a lot of recyclable materials.

If people want to want to bother with going to the recycling centers and get some extra cash for their empty cans of beer or pop I have no problem at all with those folks. But all the paper, cardboard, metals, glass and plastic that can be recycled should be recycled.  It costs a small bit from each of us to pick up, sort and process and help the local environment on a lot of levels.
 
posted by TomW on Dec 7, 2006 at 05:43 PM
Pete, I had one really bad experience with that and the OS got corrupted.  Of course, that was on a MacSE, so it's been a while.  But it was the computer I used all through high school and JC and then when I was moving *poof* all gone.  I'm sort of like the guy who flushes the toilet when the phone rings, I guess, but it's hard to shake those types of superstitions.
posted by bakonative on Dec 7, 2006 at 10:12 PM

Tom and Anglo,

give me more info on the heater vents if you would please. The den in our house is located next to the garage where the AC/FAU unit is. So the two vents in the den blast heat. So if I close off one vent using the magnetic thingy, that will force the heat into the rest of the vents, right? But then, in the hallway, where we have our four recliners (ha, ha) there is a huge vent, so should I close that one off too? Or is it truly a vent or only where the ac screen thingys are changed?

and.... you can quit laughing at me now....

posted by TomW on Dec 8, 2006 at 12:43 AM

Bakonative, what you trying to do is balance the system.  My guess would be that you should cover one of the vents in the office.  You may even want to cover half of the other one if you're still getting too much heat.  The large vent in your hallway is probably a return vent.  This is where your HVAC unit draws air in.  When you turn on your system, if you hold a sheet of tissue near the vent, it should be pulled towards it.  Don't cover this.

There are some screens and I'm glad you brought it up.  Everyone should check the filters on their air systems yearly.  The filter will be in the unit itself.  If you can't find it, PG&E will come out for free to check your pilot light.  When they are there, you can ask them about your filters.

posted by NancyII on Dec 8, 2006 at 05:56 AM
The owner of my house just had a dual pack installed and it's the noisiest thing I've ever heard.  The return air is outside my BR door in the hall and when the heater comes on it roars like a jet engine.  I've never heard one so loud and I've lived in several places where the return air was outside my room.  Is that normal?    I lived in the last place for nine years and the only time I heard the heater come on was when the filter clicked as it was sucked upwards in the return air.  One thing..the unit is almost directly above the return air here..would that account for the noise?
posted by NancyII on Dec 8, 2006 at 06:46 AM
Ron..it's a rental so moving it isn't an option.  At least for me. 
posted by tonyh on Dec 8, 2006 at 06:59 AM

I don't think the vent needs moved. I think that the Installer didn't use any vibration cushions for the Furnace, or main return duct. It's probably nailed/screwed directly to the house framing. The noise that you're hearing is probably vibration through the wall, floor or ceiling (wnatever it's attached to). The empty pockets between the studs and plaster act like a drum and actually amplify the noise.

I installed a Whole House Fan in the ceiling above my stairway several years ago, and attached the frame directly to the ceiling joists. When it was runnung, you couldn't hear the TV over the noise. I took it out and fashioned some vibration pads out of foam insulation tape. It did the trick. We can still hear it run, but the noise is more from the fan blades hitting air. If you crack enough windows to eliminate the vacuum, it quiets down a lot. The fan is 4 feet in diameter and has 5 blades.

posted by NancyII on Dec 8, 2006 at 07:06 AM
I guess I'm stuck with it then.  It's not so bad in rooms away from it but it's really annoying roaring in my room.  I don't hear or feel any vibrations in the walls..would it just affect the attic and roof area?  In my last house the return air was probably 15 feet from where the dual pack was set.  It was extremely quiet.
posted by tonyh on Dec 8, 2006 at 07:38 AM

It CAN effect only the attic/roof framing. The distence of the return air chase isn't as much a factor as the paterial that it's made of, and the method of attachment to the house framing. Maybe the Furnace is sitting directly on the ceiling joists. If that's the case, it'd be an easy thing to lift it slightly (maybe 1/2 inch max) and slide some dense foam biscuits under it. It's really not hard and would take maybe 30 minutes.

 

My upstairs return air chase is about 8 feet from the Furnace and it's made of foam insulation lined sheet metal. The Furnace at the end of it is suspended (horizontally) from the rafters on metal straps. There is a soft joint between them.

 

My downstairs return air chase is about 18 feet long and actually boxed into the framing with plywood, with the seams calked and sealed. The Furnace at the end sits on top of the opening, with a thick, rather dense foam gasket for vibration damping. It also has metal support straps attached to the rafters.

 

They're both very quiet, but the downstairs set-up seems to be the best.

posted by NancyII on Dec 8, 2006 at 07:44 AM
Thanks Tony..I'll mention it to the installer when he comes back for some followup.
posted by TomW on Dec 8, 2006 at 10:18 AM
Ron, here's what I dug up for you:

http://www.dansdata.com/dan...

And you won't even get a thank-you from the power company

Here in Long Island, NY, ads for the Power-Save 1200 are on TV. "Reduce electric usage by OPTIMIZING the power to each of you appliances!"

With a single box wired into the main circuit panel. Ha!

JW

Answer:
The Power-Save 1200 people even go on to say that the thing's a whole-house surge protector.

I was interested to see the "university study" (PDF) that allegedly confirms this gadget's effectiveness. It's from Santa Clara University, which is a real institution with a real engineering department, and the authors appear to be real people. But this study starts out reading like a rah-rah piece for the Power-Save, and then fails to actually support the claims made for the thing. If the study's to be believed then the Power-Save - or, at least, the device they tested - really is a power factor corrector of some kind (I've talked about them before, here and here). But since few (if any) countries bill household electricity consumers by power factor, that doesn't matter.

Household electricity meters, as I've mentioned before, ignore power factor very effectively. Swap out the old-style PF0.7 power supplies from your twelve computers for new shiny PF0.99 ones, or install a whole-house power factor corrector, and there'll be bugger all difference in the speed at which the little meter wheel goes around. You'll be doing your bit to reduce unnecessary load on the power grid, but you won't be saving any money.

The "study" doesn't mention this. Nor does it say anything about surge protection.

Hey, what about the DoE report (PDF)? Well, that says that "many utility companies" "usually" charge extra for bad power factor. That's true for commercial customers, but I've never heard of it happening for residential ones. It's possible, especially with modern electricity meters that no longer have the spinning disc, but as far as I know power companies usually just install their own capacitor banks in substations, rather than honk off their customers by billing them extra for something they don't even understand.

The DoE report is clearly labelled as being part of their "Motor Challenge" program. That's aimed at industry, not householders; it's talking about production lines, not washing machines. Once again, though, the Power-Save people don't go out of their way to point out that their supporting evidence is not in fact supporting them.

What else have they got? Um, some stuff about tax incentives for energy-efficient products "like the Power-Save 1200!" ...but not actually, you know, including the Power-Save 1200. Actually, the term "power factor" does not seem to be used anywhere on that site.

And then, there are the inevitable testimonials. Like the prominently featured one from one Bob Kleebauer, who's so impressed with the Power-Save that he, uh, promotes it on radio and TV.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Power-Save people have some genuine testimonials, though. People who sell worthless fuel mileage improvers also have them.

(The people on alt.engineering.electrical found the Power-Save so uninteresting that they wandered off into a discussion of more straightforward scams after the first couple of posts.)

posted by lmolen on Dec 8, 2006 at 11:12 AM
Great thread! Lotsa tips to sort through when I had some free moments, particularly those that relate to power supply. The battery on the surge protector for one of my computers went kaput, so I need to find a new solution.

I'm doing a lot of the stuff everyone already has mentioned (recycling cans, bottles, paper, cardboard, plastic), as well as buying recycled printer paper, running dishwasher in the middle of the night, dryer and washer on weekends, using low-flo toilets, fluroscent bulbs all over the place, wearing sweaters and keeping the thermostat down.

 I don't want to derail Tom's thread, but perhaps here's a future topic for this blog: hybrid cars. I'm looking to buy a hybrid, but I'm looking for something meatier than a Prius: room for four and luggage, and a little oomph if I want to get off into the woods.

posted by Hardliner4freedom on Dec 8, 2006 at 11:20 AM

Save energy in the summer:

Clothesline.

 

posted by TomW on Dec 8, 2006 at 11:43 AM
Logan, thanks for the tip.  I'm planning on moving the focus around, doing some nuts-and-bolts type political stuff as well as doing some construction stuff that breaks up into basic home maintenance and some "that's cool" type blogs.  But I'm a huge fan of alt energy in all its forms, so doing blogs on hybrid cars, power generation both small and large scale, and the importance of oil preservation (I'm one of the nutty people who think oil should be conserved for better things than burning to go to the mall) are all hopefully going to be talked about in the next year or so.
posted by mattloch on Dec 8, 2006 at 11:59 AM
Tom, I've actually looked into biodiesel for a future car. I'm planning on doing a "kit" car with my son in a few years (AC Cobra), and since I would have the opportunity to pick a power plant, I was thinking putting a meaty diesel engine into it and running it off of fry grease. Hopefully the next five years will bring do-it-yourself biodiesel kits down in price and up in reliability. . You know Hardliner, I'd do that if the air quality didn't turn my "whites" a dingy brown.
posted by TomW on Dec 8, 2006 at 01:04 PM
I like the use of biodiesel as a bridge, but I think that we're going to see a revolution before you get your project started.  A buddy of mine runs a truck off of grease and has to collect and clean it himself.  My guess is that we're in for a wave in a few years and hydrogen/electric are going to take off.  These last five years since September 11th have led to a slowdown in new adoption of technology as we hunker down in a defensive posture.  That cloud is lifting now and I think we'll see another revolution in tech very soon.  It feels close when you start seeing stuff like this: http://www.discoverthis.com...
posted by mattloch on Dec 8, 2006 at 01:30 PM
I'll refuse to use hydrogen until they start generating it from something other than fossil-fuel power plants. All you're doing is shifting the pollution from the roads to the source of the power. You're not decreasing the demand of fossil fuels at all. Biodiesel only "works" in an environmental way if you utilize used cooking oil. This push to convert over to E-85 ethanol is a plan for us to become even more dependent on corn farmers. The biggest problem with that (other than the issues we already have with heavily subsidized farming practices) is that the demand for nitrogen fertilizers counters any actual environmental benefits of moving "away" from fossil fuels. (Where else do you think all that artificial nitrogen comes from?) Brazil was smart and uses sugar cane, but then again they have the climate. Corn (especially the GM, nitrogen-requiring strains American farmers are dependent on) sucks as an "alternative" fuel.
posted by TomW on Dec 8, 2006 at 01:59 PM
I agree Mattloch, which is why I don't like it biofuel so much.  I'm planning on taking on some of the power generation problems later, but I think a hydrogen economy would also shift us towards a decentralized energy grid, which has a lot of benefits, though not for the people currently controlling the levers of power.  If you could through a combination of wind and solar energy produce your own electricity, using the excess to create hydrogen for overnight and vehicular use and sell the excess power to the grid for people who don;t have the means to produce power, you'd see an incentive towards ownership plus a redundant, self-healing network of generators and consumers.  Of course, that's far away but easier than say, building a space station on the moon.
posted by robbwillis on Dec 8, 2006 at 02:00 PM

They're fighting over used cooking oil up here on the North Coast.

I agree about the feasibility of hydrogen. Unless it comes from using solar, wind or nighttime hydroelectric power to separate it from water, it's not worth doing. Recharging your electric car, when your electricty comes from fossil fuel, is a cheat to me.  

And ethanol, as we know it now in this country, is inefficient, cost nuetral at best and survives as a federal welfare sop to the midwest.    

posted by TomW on Dec 8, 2006 at 02:08 PM
There are a few other ways to generate power that I like a lot based on the ocean.  Tidal power should be a huge component since most major cities are on a coastline.  There is also Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion.  I haven't read enough from the skeptics on it, but it's potential seems amazing: http://www.nrel.gov/otec/wh...
posted by mattloch on Dec 8, 2006 at 02:12 PM
Which is why the most important short-term plan is to increase the efficiency of fossil fuel cars (and trucks). I think that there needs to be a corresponding push for the generation of hydrogen to go along with the technological side of making a viable vehicle use it (along with a distribution network to make it viable everywhere, for everyone). I'd love for yours to become a plan, Tom. I'd start by suggesting full subsidies for people who want to replace their roofs with the solar tiles I've seen occasionally. (Anyone have a link to someone who makes/sells them?) They last forever (at least as long as those concrete tiles), and they'll give that decentralized system you talk about. I think that the government should be putting it's $$$ behind plans that would wean us off of fossil fuels (especially from foreign countries), and finance it through the savings in defense spending it'll result in ten or twenty years from now.
posted by mattloch on Dec 8, 2006 at 02:14 PM
Tom, OTEC only works in places with steep continental shelves. It is also potentially harmful to ocean species that would suddenly have to contend with a temperature differential of several degrees. We're talking localized extinctions here. Certainly not any greater than a few miles in diameter, but it is far from harmless.....
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