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TomW - > All Politics Are Local -> Open Thread
Open Thread
Post whatever you want.  Here's what I'm looking at today:

State weighs cutting "idiot" from constitution

PHILADELPHIA, Jan 8 (Reuters Life!) - New Jersey is to consider cutting the word 'idiot' from its constitution so that people with some mental disabilities won't be barred from voting.

State Senate President Richard Codey introduced a bill on Monday that would remove language from the New Jersey constitution that was designed more than 150 years ago to prevent people suffering from mental illness or handicap from casting their vote in national, state or local elections.

Codey wants to eliminate a section that says "no idiot or insane person should enjoy the right of suffrage" and substitute with a reference to "a person who has been adjudicated by a court of competent jurisdiction to lack the capacity to understand the act of voting."


Actual London Metro Poster

200701091052

 



























Bush Speaks tonight:

WH: Bush to acknowledge mistakes in Iraq
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush will tell the nation Wednesday night he will send more than 20,000 additional American forces to Iraq, acknowledging that it had been a mistake earlier not to have more American and Iraqi troops fighting the war, a senior administration official said.

Seeking support for a retooled strategy to win support for the unpopular war, the president also will acknowledge that the rules of engagement were flawed, White House counselor Dan Bartlett said.
Posted in these Groups:
Topics: open thread
posted by TomW on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 at 08:47 AM
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47 comments from 10 users

1

posted by ProgressivePete2 on Jan 10, 2007 at 08:59 AM
That poster creeps me out. First of all it totally looks like it's straight out of Orwell's 1984, mixed with a little sci-fi with a bit of propoganda style. That doesn't make me feel secure, it creeps me out. If someone were to try to bomb the tube again, cameras wouldn't stop them. They would just be able to see what happened later. How that makes people safer I've yet to figure out.
posted by marsh on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:00 AM
I think they should remove the word, after all we allow idiots into the halls of government . . .
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:04 AM
I don't think idiot is descriptive enough. Heck I call all sorts of people idiot when I'm driving.
posted by randomfactor on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:07 AM
Ever notice how all the idiots are in front of you, driving too slow, while all the maniacs are behind you, driving too fast?
posted by randomfactor on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:10 AM
You'll be relieved to know there are no "idiots" or "morons" in the California State Constitution, although it does make provision for excluding the vote of the "mentally incompetent."
posted by adampayne on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:17 AM
Idiot is a pretty general term these days, which seems to apply to all sorts of behavior. Lawyers will get to have a field day arguing, and reconstructing as many words as possible to describe the malady. Given our euphemistic propensity, maybe we should argue for a simple substitute word like "special" that does not cast any harmful aspersions to the afflicted such as idiot or insane or retarded or loony or a-brick-short-of-a full-load or dumb-as-#*@#.

That London poster is creepy, and I totally agree with Pete's take on the Orwellian look observation. Interesting and provocative post TomW!  
posted by woofwoof on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:18 AM

That poster is scary....

But post what I want, really?  Ok, forget about that crap.  Let me share with you the most precious of simple pleasures that makes my life great, it's not politics.  I dropped of my 9 year old daughter of at school, and she wanted to hang back for a minute.  I asked, is everything ok?  She said sort of.  I asked aren't  you happy; what would make you happy?  I assumed there was some reason she didn't want to go to school.  She told me a puppy would make her happy.  And then she assured me she would train it and take care of it (we have a dog, my pic).  I let her have her puppy moment and didn't say anything either way, because I know she knows what the answer would be.  I gave her a big ole hug and now she was happy to go off to school.

After she got out of the car she turned around as she walked away, and I blew her a kiss.  Both of her hands were full, so she did the only thing she could.  She opened her mouth and caught my blown kiss, then clamped her teeth down shut.  I laughed all the way home.   

Politics schmolitics!

posted by antiextremism on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:23 AM

Yeah I'll be curious, after Georgie reluctantly admits to making a few mistakes, how he will justify his plan to add the 82nd Airborne to the troops in Iraq. Let's review, the Democrats don't want it, the American people don't want it, the Republicans don't want it, the military leaders don't want it....but he knows what's best. I'm sure he'll be wavin' the flag tonight, but his face will say....Nancy Grace.

posted by TomW on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:24 AM
Great story, Woofwoof.  I have noticed that a lot of folks work in stories that are tangential (not me, of course *ahem*) to whatever blog topics are available.  A lot of stuff is hard to work into a full blog but is still worth sharing like the story about your kid.  That is sweet.
posted by randomfactor on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:24 AM
Re:  the poster--anyone notice some posters around town with a somewhat similar theme?  They show a group of "people" with closed-circuit television cameras for heads, posed in an oh-so-Nazi Germany salute.  I've seen two of 'em so far, must be more...
posted by antiextremism on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:27 AM

Woof woof, Bush wants your child to have a cat instead. You want a puppy, you're daughter wants a puppy, the puppy wants a home....but George knows what's best!

 

 

posted by woofwoof on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:34 AM
Politics bore me.  I notice there's a lot of it here.  I could bitch all day long about the waste of money that goes on in politics.  Like changing this "idiot" thing, when if those people are mentally incapacited, how would they go out and vote anyway.  Is New Jersey scared there's that many "idiots" that could change who's getting voted in? 
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:34 AM
Random, I wouldn't know about what's behind me. I'm one of the maniacs! I actually feel more comfortable driving in front of a group of cars. At least that way I can be sure I won't have a giant SUV drifting into my lane at the slightest curve in the road. The bigger the vehicle, the harder it is for the driver to actually stay in their own lane it seems. I guess the constant phone calls don't help either.
posted by TomW on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:37 AM
Woofwoof, part of that is so that they don't cast absentee ballots that are filled out by others.
posted by mattloch on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:43 AM
posted by woofwoof on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:44 AM

See I forgot about the absentee ballot......

Anti----I let her know about the cat............

posted by woofwoof on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:48 AM

WHAT'S UP VENEZULA'S ASS! I heard this story.   Ok sorry, now we are taking over all businesses.  We the govt now owns you..  WTF?

posted by mattloch on Jan 10, 2007 at 09:56 AM
Chavez is taking the revenues from oil resources and buying up infrastructure that he believes is vital to his country's continued independence. Why shouldn't they be able to do that, Woof? Keep in mind, we're talking about multi-national companies here, too. Their argument is similar to a person wanting to pay Ford the $20,000 it takes to make an Explorer, as opposed to the $40,000 that Ford says it's worth. Their idea of what these things are worth is far different than what it took to build, and I have a feeling that's where the real point of contention is...
posted by randomfactor on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:01 AM
Woofwoof, might be a good strategy for US to use against Halliburton--would be easier than trying to get the billions of wasted dollars back.
posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:06 AM
Bush speaks tonite, tomorrow thousands will protest his escalation of the War in Iraq. If anyone is interested, here is the link to AmericaSaysNo.org where you can find a protest or rally in your area since some of our commenters and bloggers aren't in Bako. This list of groups participating is fairly big:

United for Peace & Justice
Democracy For America
TrueMajorityACTION.org
CodePink
Mainstreet Moms
Progressive Democrats of America
National Organization for Women (NOW)
Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations
Faithful America
Women's Action for New Directions (WAND)
United Methodist General Board of Church and Society
Physicians for Social Responsibility (PSR)
Working Assets
DC for Democracy
Sojourners
U.S. Labor Against the War
Peace Action
20/20 Vision
Feminist Majority
American Friends Service Committee

Most of these marches are around 6pm, so as many people as possible can participate. MoveOn and WCW are also participating..which for MoveOn, is quite unusual.

Glad to see you put up an open thread Tom :) Do you consider this a valid use of it? Just curious..
posted by randomfactor on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:09 AM

Cease fire in Darfur?

Brokered by a Democratic Governor (and potential Presidential candidate...)

http://today.reuters.com/ne...

posted by randomfactor on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:10 AM
Dusty, none in Bakersfield, right?  Closest I saw was Van Nuys.
posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:12 AM
Actually, I think there is one here. I have been so busy posting the info on all the forums and blogs I post on..I haven't had time to check. I am still hurting from yesterdays 2 epdurals in my lower spine..and medicated..so I don't know if I can actually attend one. WCW is sponsoring one here and MoveOn has sent out emails looking for someone to sponsor one here..nothing like competing rallys at the same time in different places in Bako you know :P
posted by woofwoof on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:24 AM
Best wishes to you Dusty, I feel your pain!  I've had the cervical (neck) epidurals....it's no picnic.....hope they help.  I went through a course of three, and they didn't seem to do much for me.  But I'd try just about anything to get rid of my neck pain issues, just short of voodoo!!!
posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Random..there is one in Santa Barbara which isn't too far and the place I usually go for all the peace marches and rallys. There is one in Ventura as well. No one signed up to host one here in Bako for MoveOn..but if anyone is interested, here is their page on where to locate one based on your zipcode.
posted by BJD on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:26 AM

Wait a minute.  Did someone try to defend The Venezuelan dictator, for real?  Chavez is doing things that HE thinks is best for his country, but why shouldn't THEY be able to do this?  There is no THEY.  Its only a HE.  And HE is the inevitable end result of socialism, a dictator who thinks he knows best and can determine what is best for all of his people.  It seems to me that he is doing the very same things you guys are trying to convince us that President Bush is doing.  Yet you defend him and criticize Bush. 

Also, Ford doesn't say the Explorer is worth $40,000, you do.  The product is priced at whatever the market will pay for it.  And, why is it Haliburton's fault that the government can't control it's purse?  Do you think there would be less corruption if the government controlled Haliburton?

posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:28 AM
Woof, I hope they help too. The first one didn't do squat 5 months ago..and since workers compensation takes forever to approve these shots..I didn't get them close enough together to actually see any real progress according to my orthopod. Its also ridiculous that they have so much bs to go through just to follow your doc's course of treatment, then wonder why it's futile. These shots should of been done 1-2 months apart..not five.
posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:31 AM
If Halliburton didn't make it a regular business practice to overcharge for their products and services perhaps we wouldn't have to talk about all the crap they have pulled. They already have paid back a couple of million that they admitted they overcharged on in Iraq..and thats just what they got busted for to date.
posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:35 AM
Here is a WaPo article on the 8 Million Halliburton is paying back from overcharging in Kosovo..it takes years of court cases to get them to ante up what they have stolen from the taxpayers here. so we won't really know the bottom line of all the money they have overcharged on Iraq until years down the road.
posted by randomfactor on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:37 AM

BJD, *HE* is the legally-elected President of Venezuela.  He has as much authority inside his country as Bush has inside the US.  Which one's doing better? 

.

Yes, I think there'd be less corruption if the government controlled Halliburton.

posted by mattloch on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:47 AM
BJD, HE was elected by THEY (for a third term) because HE was doing such a good job helping THEY out of poverty. HE is acting within the Constitution of that country, and on behalf of the majority of citizens of that country. President Bush is acting on behalf of a minority of citizens, in an un-Constitutional manner, to benefit a minority of citizens. (And by the way, Ford does set the price below which cars cannot be sold. Music companies are also being charged with price fixing in the same manner.) And Haliburton has been found guilty of overcharging the government, as well as receiving "no-bid, cost-plus" contracts where they have a financial incentive to act in an inefficient and wasteful manner.
posted by TomW on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:49 AM
I think we need to seriously revamp the Army Corp of Engineers.  Those folks know their stuff and should be brought in in cases like Katrina and the inevitable next earthquake in CA.
posted by ProgressivePete2 on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:54 AM
Venezuela also has a unicameral parliment of elected officials as well. It's not a dictatorship even if Bush wants to call it that.

I don't think the govt should control Halliburton, just all the jobs that the govt is paying them to do. The armed forces used to be quite capable of feeding themselves without having to pay profits to someone else. Sure the soldiers couldn't get TacoBell or surf-n-turf before, but do they really need that anyway?
posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 10:58 AM
The ACE was brought in the rebuild the levees in NOLA Tom. They did a half assed job according to some..just like the last time they built the levees. A rush job..and on the cheap.
posted by mattloch on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:02 AM
Pete, Bush wanted to make it a dictatorship, rememeber? Too bad Chavez outwitted him. I'm surprised BJD didn't remember that.
posted by TomW on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:13 AM
Dusty, ACE knew of the problems with their old levees though and wanted to rebuild them.  This time, they were brought in to make a temporary solution.  They were in talks with Holland to borrow some of their enginneers, but couldn't get the funding to get those style of levees built.
posted by BJD on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:14 AM

Venezuaela:  What about all of the reports of election corruption?  Is it so easy to believe that a US president is more likely to be elected under corrupt circumstances than a Venequelan one?  I've heard a lot of you guys claim as much.  What about all of the reports that poverty is worse under Chavez, only he's pushed it to the side so that no one can see it?  What about all of the new authority Chavez has taken from his parliment and given to himself (including the authority to take over private businesses)?  You guys just believe whatever you want to believe or whatever President Carter tells you.

Ford:  Sorry, even though Ford has set a minimum price, they are still subject to consumer demand.  If the price is too high, the product will not sell.  I really don't think people are paying $40,000 for an explorer because they don't have any other options.

Halliburton:  Please!  If Halliburton was controlled by the government, it would be controlled by President Bush.  After reading your opinions of him, I can't believe you would want that.  Also, the military has to buy stuff from someone.  Even if they were only buying raw carrots and potatoes like they used to, they would still have vendors.  The procurment machine for the military is larger than any company any of you guys have ever worked for.  There is a lot of corruption, because people, individual people, are greedy.  None of it is government corruption, only individual corruption in a government contract.  But its very difficult to manage because of its size.  We could do better, but we won't.

posted by mattloch on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:29 AM
BJD, do you have any links to voter fraud in Venezuela? I couldn't find much on the web after their election, so perhaps your sources are better than mine. I've also heard some things about the powers that Chavez is taking "away" from the parliament, and that is disturbing to me. As for the poverty, I haven't heard anything more than rumors (which come from pro-business, anti-Chavez sources). Not so say they aren't true, I just haven't seen too many (any) well-researched, well-documented stories on that. Not to say that they're out there, just that I haven't seen them (yet). Care to enlighten us?
posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:41 AM
Halliburton..let me count the ways. Try this article about BushCo stalling a probe into bribes. Then there is this article about Halliburton hindering oversight by routinely hiding information by marking reports as "proprietary data", when its not. Then we have the story about contaminated water in Iraq by the halliburton KBR subsidiary. Then the writeup about Repubs killing amendments to investigate Halliburtons contract abuse.

All these articles I linked to have documentation for their allegations within their writeups, either government documentation or other MSM accounts. Those should keep you busy reading for awhile...if you even read them..
posted by BJD on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:42 AM

mattloch, thanks for the invitation, but I'm afraid I don't have any links to offer.  All I have heard recently are rumors as well.  Off the top of my head, the only real reporting I can offer is a National Geographic article from last April.  They try to stay as neutral as possible, but the caption under the first picture in the article says this:

"Slums like Barrio Experanza ring the high-rise prosperity of the capital, Caracas.  More than half of Venezuelans live in poverty, and the number of poor has grown since Chavez took office in 1999.  But free health care and food from government-subsidized stores are easing some of their burdens - and propping up Chavez's popularity ratings."

The article also talks about his increasing power, and about his ability to win elections, but as I said, as a mainstream magazine, they try to keep the accusations to a minimum.

posted by randomfactor on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:44 AM

One thing I think has been confirmed is that Chavez is moving towards ending the term limit which would prevent him from standing for re-election next time 'round.  Wikipedia has a good article on him.

 

posted by BJD on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:48 AM

dusty, thanks for the links, but as you suspected, I won't read them.  Since you read them, I don't have to take the time myself.  I believe you that there's a lot of corruption, as I have already said.  I just don't agree that the way to fix it is to get more government involvement in it, or hand all control of military procurement to the President, like they do in Venezuela.  In fact, back to the original point, if it were possible to do an audit of Hugo Chavez's personal finances, I would be willing to place a sizable bet that he makes a lot more money from his corruption than President Bush makes from his.

posted by mattloch on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:55 AM
I've heard similar accusations as well BJD, but I've also read several articles moderating those by saying that the poor are not as poor as they were before, that social services are better now than ever (and even better than in the US in some cases), that the elections were "fairer" than the 2000 and 2004 US elections. The biggest thing I'm worried about right now is if Chavez amends their Constitution to allow him to run for a fourth (and fifth, and sixth) term. As good as he's been for that country, I'd like to see a successor come along and pick up his mantle and run with it for a while. Chavez, for all of his insane rantings and proclamations, has been very good for his country, for the country's citizens, and for their future. He's managed to take windfall oil prices and turn them into actual benefits for his country, instead of having them disappear into Swiss bank accounts, military arms, or US companies like so many have in the past. As radical as he may seem on the surface, the more you know about the history of that country, that region, the IMF/World Bank, US companies, and US interests, you'll realize that Chavez is a largely good thing for them right now.
posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 11:57 AM
Ending no-bid contracts is a start BJD. Holding Halliburton and its subsidiaries accountable,either criminally or financially is another way to end the corruption. Its disgusting we have to pass laws to protect us from corporations but I think its the only way to make them financially accountable for the millions and perhaps billions they screw us, the taxpayers, out of.
posted by BJD on Jan 10, 2007 at 12:20 PM

mattloch, the picture above the caption that I quoted before is of the slum mentioned there.  There are other pictures in the article of other slums too.  If things are better for the poor now, I would hate to have seen what they were like before.  These people (tens of thousands of them in slums all around Caracas) don't live any better than the homeless in New York or LA, yet they are not considered homeless.  They have "free" health care, but is it really free?  I think they pay for it in their inability to improve their lives.  And their children are doomed to the same fate because of the policies of Chavez.

dusty,  I agree.  Corruption is a crime of opportunity.  If we remove the opportunity, we remove the problem.

posted by dusty1215 on Jan 10, 2007 at 12:32 PM
I am outta here..have a great day folks..the back is killing me.
posted by mattloch on Jan 10, 2007 at 01:44 PM
BJD, are you suggesting that Chavez is offering them free health care at the cost (social or otherwise) of citizen's ability to get well-paying jobs with benefits? If anything, by having domestically owned and operated businesses (by the government or otherwise) makes for a greater and more stable marketplace that foreign-owned and operated businesses that have no stake in the society, and have no social conscience. You really should do some research into Venezuela's past, both nationally and internationally, and the role of multi-national corporations working hand-in-hand with the IMF/World Bank. Makes you feel bad to be an American. It also gives you insight into Chavez's animosity towards the US and US corporations.
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