WAR MONGERS?? Jr..Vietnam 1965-1973 with a Total dead: 285831 ...Total wounded: ~1490000 and it was started with a democrat in office.... it took a republican to end it..,,

5 years in Iraq..4000 dead...I couldn't find an accurate total because they don't seem to have a way to process that info yet..But I do know my boy has a scar on his neck from a bullet graze and was hit in the back by a ricochet piece of shrapnel.. luckily it didn't penetrate him enough to do as much damage as it could have because it didn't hit him in a soft tissue area..just put him in bed with pain pills for about 2 weeks..same mortar split and hit his sarge in the head..

you don't think a man with ties to the Muslim nations wont have a sympathetic ear?? Come on man..your head band is starting to droop over your eyeballs..

Actually, SCR, the Viet Nam saga of our involvement started under Eisenhower. And the people had to throw out a Republican VP and President before we actually finally left in 1975.

Thanks for the fine post, VLeeds!!!!

siouxcity: by "man with ties to Muslim nations", are you refering to Bandar Bush?  That didn't work out so well for regular Americans.

Best book I've read about the history of our involvement in Nam is The Best and The Brightest. Dated by now, but will give you a full detailed rundown.

McCain, of course, willingly put himself in harms way and served his country honorably. So did a million other guys. Whether they were drafted, volunteered, or got extended, they went when their country called. If there's an indictment to be made, it should be directed to those in charge who made the calling. The war graves and history is the final jury. Perhaps the greatest irony is the people who suffered the most, the average village rice farmer, would have been the least affected, regarless which flag claimed the territory.

George established the policy of "regime change" with armed force, not with a mandate from the people but with a mandate from God. This election will determine if that precedent stands or is overturned. Electing Obama as next president is literally a matter of life and death.

if you would like to go back further ...The commitment to Vietnam itself, passed from administration to administration, took on validity aside from any rational basis it might once have had. Truman (a democrat), Eisenhower, and Kennedy all gave their word that the United States would stand by its South Vietnamese allies. If the United States abandoned the South Vietnamese, its word would be regarded as unreliable by other governments, friendly or not. So U.S. credibility seemed at stake.

 it started full force under Johnson..that death count started in 1965 under his reign..ya know right after JFK was assassinated? The world is still saying HMMMM on that one. There were rumors JFK wanted to pull out during his next term so Johnson decided he was going to save the project and escalate our involvement..

Thomas I'm not discussing brain fart Bush..I side with everyone that he has screwed up royally...I know you will keep saying more of the same but after the backlash and public response to Bush I dont see the republicans following the same downhill spiral..EVERYONE will be watching..one of the GREAT things about our process is we have a right to impeach if things get out of hand

I side with everyone that he has screwed up royally...

He transferred billions in taxpayer dollars to his campaign supporters.  By that light he's the most successful president we've had in decades.  Of course, that doesn't take into account the irreparable damage to the country itself...

one of the GREAT things about our process is we have a right to impeach if things get out of hand

Only if the president is a Democrat, it seems.

Here's what I say to Obama in response to his hammering on McCain over his "housing issue,": 

Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones at one, let alone 8, of the houses of your opponent.  I think that's why you didn't hear any more from Obama on the matter.  Democrats were hoping to make hay out of this tiny seed, but knew that it would ultimately backfire. 

I think I'll go back to clinging to my Bibles and guns now.  Sound familiar?  

And in what way does Obama live in a glass house?  Are you saying we shouldn't throw stones because *McBUSH* lives in glass houses?   And can't remember how many?

There you go again trying to push a perpetual McCain/Bush link in people's minds.  We're not that stupid to fall for that pathetically hackneyed propaganda technique. 

Not that Bush was as terrible a president as liberals make him out to be, but there are reasons Bush and McCain didn't end up being the best of friends after the 2000 election.  Being identical twins wasn't one of the reasons. 

Name any policy difference between George W. Shrub and John Sidney McBush the Third Term.

Go on, we'll wait. 

there are reasons Bush and McCain didn't end up being the best of friends after the 2000 election.

You mean because Shrub used the same despicable campaign tactics against McBush that McBush is now using against Obama?  Guess I can see where that *WOULD* tick someone off.   But you'd think after that he wouldn't be voting 90-95 percent in favor of the chimp-in-chief's policies.  McBush has *NO* self-respect left.

Does McCain/Feingold ring a bell? 

If it's McCain you're referring to, and not McWright, then I would say that he ever runs out of self-respect, he'll always have plenty of respect to make up for it, from all of our brave men and women in uniform. 

The law he broke?  Yeah, rings a bell.   His buddy Shrub got him out of that one by firing the guy on the FEC board that pointed out the violation.

McBush ran out of what little self-respect he had left...right...about...*HERE*:

He's now embarassing and dissing "our brave men and women in uniform."  And they know it, too:  They're contributed six-to-one to Obama's campaign.

In America, we all try to work hard and make MONEY to better the lives of our families.  If we make alot of money, we buy houses, beach homes, lake retreats, cars, boats, etc.  What the hell is wrong with that?  McCain and his wife made money, let them spend their own money any way they want.  Most smart Americans can see that McCain is no Bush.  Obama should be trouncing McCain in the Latest polls, but guess what, they are neck and neck.  Hillary was right, she was the candidate that had the best chance of winning, not an empty suit.

Well stated, Roysan. 

Uh....uh....McCain is a better bowler than Obama!

Hey Doc. Could you give me a short list of all the good things that Bush has done? I want to be convinced that he wasn't as bad as the American people, not just the dems, believe.

77% of voters associate McCain with a third bush administration. I'd call that being trounced in the polls.

Now that he's picked up every fundie's pin-up girl for a running mate, that about makes the election a foregone conclusion.

Not too many Dems are saying Hillary is wrong. Obama made a stronger statement and ran a smarter campaign. Also, alot of voters--me included--felt it was time for someone new. Really didn't want to start a Bill and Hill dynasty. But all that is not a consideration. I concur with Hillary that the stakes are too high for another four years of Bush. The agenda McCain and fundie-girl plan for this country should frighten every American. My vote is more about keeping this from happening than putting Obama in the white house.

 Hey Doc. Could you give me a short list of all the good things that Bush has done? I want to be convinced that he wasn't as bad as the American people, not just the dems, believe.

Has there been a terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11?  Have the unborn had a strong advocate in George W. Bush? 

Now that he's picked up every fundie's pin-up girl for a running mate, that about makes the election a foregone conclusion.

What an insult to women.  I guess a woman can't be good-looking and intelligent at the same time.  These kind of mysogenistic put-downs, if delivered by prominant Democrat politicians, will cause women to switch over to the McCain/Palin ticket in droves. Biden is capricious.  He is impulsive.  I wouldn't put it past him to, at some point, say something this incredibly stupid and ruin it for his party. 

It's meant to be an insult to fundies, not women.

Give her the benefit of the doubt, catpaw.  Just because she doesn't share all of your views, doesn't mean she's a "fundie." 

"Has there been a terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11?  Have the unborn had a strong advocate in George W. Bush? "

That's a real short list.

Has there been a terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11?  Have the unborn had a strong advocate in George W. Bush? 

Terrorist attacks: Anthrax attacks, the attacks on the church and Democratic campaign offices off the top of my head.

Advocate of the unborn: I guess that doesn't include SCHIP funding or actually trying to change any laws.

No, there hasn't been an Islamic  terrorist attack on U.S soil, but there's been a helluva lot more American casualties since then, than the actual 911 attack.

He's been a voice for the unborn? So was Eric Rudolph, although his voice 'boomed' a little louder. Both don't seem to have that much empathy for the already born.

I'm just sayin, when u live in a country that has two wars of aggression, for oil and profit, (sending 72,000 soldiers, to win Iraq????!!!)  come on, they're not even tryin to win a war, just to control the Persian gulf,  therefore controlling the worlds oil supply, so if any one wants oil, they'd have to deal with The USA or a satellite country,  when torture and concentration camps and hebeaus corpus is suspended, and 3 months babies are on watch lists,  and where torture is used and we have secret prisons in the world, and spyin on US citizens thru telephone taps and computer lines,   Id say That's not my America,  Where is Bin Laden?  seems the chimp in charge has forgotten him,   Lets not let the USA become a fascist country, my god, the whole country is almost broken apart,  for what,  to control oil,  remember Bush is from a oil family, with ties to the Bin Ladens for over 50 years,  why would Bush want to catch someone his dad supported in the Afghan war with Russia

Of *COURSE* there haven't been Al Qaeda attacks on US soil since 9/11.  Shrub's been paying them off with *EVERYTHING* they have asked for.

Bush has been a great President, and McCain will be even better.  I'm very proud of our President, and eventually history will come around and shine a brighter light on him too.  He could have been better at being a uniter and not a divider, but nobody's perfect. I'm very proud of VIce President Cheney, and I'm looking forward to another great Vice President in Sarah Palin. 

When you open your mind to the possibility that Bush may have done some good, you will find plenty of things he's done to make the world a better place.  This includes environmental issues and promoting alternative fuels.

Nothing that even comes close to 9/11 has happened in the United States, Saddam is gone, (one of the worst enemies of humanity and the envioronment), and I believe many unborn babies have been saved under his watch. 

Vleeds, you are incredibly talented as a musician, and I respect that too much to go to battle with you in the realm of politics.  Politics divide.  Music unites.  My comments are a response to TomW's.