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Dem. Congressman Keith Ellison will swear on the Koran not the Bible. Does it Matter?
Newly elected Democratic congressman from Minn. will not be sworn in with the Bible but the Koran. If this is OK with all, should a Nazi elected to an office be allowed to be sworn in using 'Mien Kamph'? Just wondering how you here in Bako town feel. My first thought is he was voted in by citizens that knew he was Muslim so there shouldn't be a problem. But I'm having second thoughts now. KKK, Nazis, Atheists etc. does it really matter? 36 comments from 16 users
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posted by
dgrealish
on Nov 29, 2006 at 06:23 PM
It raises a whole lot of questions, doesn't it Anglo? But I see nothing wrong with it. If his faith is in the words of the Koran and he chooses to be sworn in using it, that's his privilege. The problem would be if he weren't allowed to be sworn in on it. posted by
tonyh
on Nov 29, 2006 at 06:46 PM
It'll definitely be a first............ The severe cold up there in the winter must kill brain cells or something. Didn't they elect a Wrastler for Governer awhile back? These days, electing a Mislem is like electing a Nazzi in the 1940's. In general, it seems like a fairly off-the-wall endeavor..............Whatever............ posted by
AudreyB
on Nov 29, 2006 at 07:03 PM
Let me see.......... The Koran in one hand, Mien Kamph in the other. I choose neither. I want to swear on a Dick and Jane primer. posted by
tonyh
on Nov 29, 2006 at 08:06 PM
posted by
jasonsperber
on Nov 29, 2006 at 08:47 PM
posted by
anglo1
on Nov 29, 2006 at 09:49 PM
If the swearing in ceremony is held at the same time as others using the Bible and the ratio of Christians to Muslims is lets say 10 to 1 are we pushing Christianity on the first [non traditional Jason] Muslim. I agree with Dgrealish it just raises a lot of questions. I wonder if the legal Organization mentioned here often will come to his aid if he feels uncomfortable with all the Biblical invocations in his presence. Honestly everyone I just wonder about the long term implications. Do we abandon swearing in ceremonies using religious preferences altogether, I don't know. It is a new world. Audrey I know what one is but who is Jane? posted by
mattloch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 08:12 AM
posted by
randomfactor
on Nov 30, 2006 at 08:23 AM
There are all kinds of ways to take an oath. I haven't been sworn-in to testify for about 15 years, but I recall the "so help me God" in the oath, but I replied "I do" to the first part, about telling the truth. Didn't need any help. Cecil Adams once did a bit on the various alternative oaths, some of which involve shattering crockery (no, I'm not kidding). Can't seem to find it, though. posted by
ProgressivePete2
on Nov 30, 2006 at 08:35 AM
The Presidential oath of office is described in Article II, section 1 of the Constitution:
Oaths of office for other federal and state officials are described in Article VI of the Constitution:
posted by
randomfactor
on Nov 30, 2006 at 08:47 AM
Gee, Pete, I don't see any mention that "so help me God" *OR* a Bible must be there. Do you think it was left out for a reason? . Mattloch, remember the scene in "Oh, God!" in which George Burns takes the stand and swears to tell the truth "So help Me, Me"? posted by
anglo1
on Nov 30, 2006 at 08:56 AM
posted by
ProgressivePete2
on Nov 30, 2006 at 08:59 AM
I may be breaking some copyright rules here, but this part of my above link really illustrates this concept. Joseph Story, an early Justice of the Supreme Court and the author of the first detailed commentary on the United States Constitution, comments on the oath or affirmation clause of the Constitution as follows:
In other words, the Constitution guarantees all federal and state officials the right to avoid taking oaths of office. Further, the Constitution guarantees that there will be no religious tests for federal office. In the words of Joseph Story, the effect of these provisions is to "cut off for ever every pretense of any alliance between church and state in the national government." Additionally, these clauses moved the Constitution well beyond contemporary state constitutions in terms of their provisions for religious freedom. posted by
randomfactor
on Nov 30, 2006 at 09:03 AM
posted by
anonymous
on Nov 30, 2006 at 09:06 AM
Ancient Romans swore their oaths on their testicles. That's where the word "testify" comes from.
posted by
randomfactor
on Nov 30, 2006 at 09:18 AM
posted by
anglo1
on Nov 30, 2006 at 09:23 AM
posted by
mattloch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 09:40 AM
posted by
randomfactor
on Nov 30, 2006 at 09:41 AM
posted by
TomW
on Nov 30, 2006 at 09:55 AM
posted by
AudreyB
on Nov 30, 2006 at 10:41 AM
posted by
mattloch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 10:48 AM
posted by
randomfactor
on Nov 30, 2006 at 10:51 AM
posted by
mattloch
on Nov 30, 2006 at 11:04 AM
posted by
randomfactor
on Nov 30, 2006 at 11:39 AM
Turns out there is no Bible involved in Congressional oaths of office. The right-wing radio host made it all up. posted by
TomW
on Nov 30, 2006 at 12:07 PM
posted by
AudreyB
on Nov 30, 2006 at 12:59 PM
posted by
dusty1215
on Nov 30, 2006 at 01:36 PM
posted by
anonymous
on Nov 30, 2006 at 03:22 PM
Religion has nothing to do with the function of the office. Americans, who are mostly Christians, have the arrogance to think that their religion is the only "true" religion. The fact that this is even posted as a question is absurd. It seems that every little thing that is different seems to be an issue. The sun doesn't rise or set on America. It is a good country, the BEST country, but all that we do is right. Who cares what someone is sweared in with. What possible difference could it make!? posted by
anonymous
on Nov 30, 2006 at 05:45 PM
Posted by Drummel:
I'm a little late on this topic BUT The sole purpose of the oath is to uphold the Constitution. All religion aside. For the President's oath, "So help me God" was verbally added by George Washington and was traditionally continued there after. For Senators & Reps, the actual text "So help me God" is in the oath and was voted into law sometime after the Civil War.
posted by
anglo1
on Nov 30, 2006 at 07:20 PM
This is really interesting to me, if he were Jewish and swore on the Torah, Muslim the Koran, Christian the Bible it is the individual freedom to swear your oath to the laws of this country on the Religious Scriptures of your choice or not. Pretty amazing isn't it. As long as they swear to uphold the laws of these U.S. it is their choice. I just hope the next blog subject isn't about Muslim communities here enforcing Sharia laws and ignoring the laws of the U.S. posted by
gr8scott
on Dec 1, 2006 at 02:32 PM
I believe that they are "swearing" to uphold the constitution and laws. It is understood, why I don't know, that if someone swears on the bible it has more validity. If that is the case, then a person could swear on what they, not you, believe.
posted by
Hardliner4freedom
on Dec 1, 2006 at 02:37 PM
Here's an AOL poll on the topic: http://articles.news.aol.co... The results are very disappointing. I've voiced my criticisms of Islam in the past, but the man was lawfully elected. I can't think of anything more un-American than telling this man that his holy book of faith is not an acceptable vehicle for taking an oath, and that the book of the "de facto official religion of the United States" must be used instead. posted by
ProgressivePete2
on Dec 1, 2006 at 02:43 PM
posted by
mattloch
on Dec 1, 2006 at 02:47 PM
posted by
Star4Jesus
on Jan 16, 2007 at 05:34 PM
posted by
justincase
on Jul 22, 2007 at 10:45 AM
I'd rather see all of them swear, not on the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc..... Instead I'd rather see them swear on
THE CONSTITUTION
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