Everything about our nation is byzantine.  Our health care system(s), our laws and tax codes, our political processes, our markets--everything is mired in infinite layers of complexity.  I liken us to a nation of tinkers, who in the quest to invent the perfect machine, we add gears and cogs to every spot we detect the slightest perturbation.  In doing so, we are making the machinery of our society so complex that soon it will stop functioning altogether. Then will begin the exciting process of dismantling the old (rapidly, energetically) and replacing it with newer, simpler machinery, that in its own time will become equally complex. 

And to dash any hopes--I assure you, we won't enjoy any stage of the process.  We never have before.

As a note, it is a myth that folks who arrive in ambulances are seen sooner than those in the ER.  If someone uses the ambulance to rush to the hospital but their condition isn't triaged as serious, they are sent to the waiting room to sit with everyone else.

They still get the bill for the ambulance though.  :-)

Hear ye, hear ye! Your tribulations recall Sean Hannity's debate with Michael Moore on Hannity's Fox News show over Moore's movies that trash the health care system and capitalism. Hannity took issue with Moore's praises of Cuba's health care system as an example of what socialized medicine could achieve. Hannity took the guy for a look at the seedy side of a Cuban hospital that Moore conveniently left out of his movie "Sicko." If you thought KMC Urgent Care's restrooms were bad, you should've seen the video clip of the the Cuban hospital's, not to mention the other rooms used to treat the patients. Indeed, socialized medicine at its best.

I'd like to think there is no reason why an American government administered system of health care has to be identical to other systems anywhere else in the world. 

That said, there are plenty of scary stories about health-care in our private facilities, so no nation or system is without its horrors. 

Don't get sick.  That's the best health care plan of all time.

Thanks for the correction on the "triage" middle.  Very good point.  The night I was there they had three ambulances come in, and apparently all were pretty serious. 

I had a problem that would be considered non-urgent for most patients, but due to me only having one kidney my doctor told me to NEVER wait ~ to seek care immediately.

Impossible at KMC

I feel for you.  I went to Memorial in March for a kidney stone that had laid me up for three days.  I was seen in good enough time, but the bill was over $8,000!

The heart condition it caused nearly resulted in another hospital visit, but I decided better to let myself go than be $16,000 in debt with nothing to show for it!  :-)

KMC is a county hospital. These (county hospitals) have provided necessary, cheap medical care for decades. They have also been the source of the worst medical care in the country for the same time frame. 

I agree, through similar experiences, that KMC is a nightmare compared to other hospitals. The Mercys are much better; Bakersfield Heart Hospital is tops. 

But - you haven't been to BHH, have you? Why not? Because the Mercys, now a private enterprise not run by the sisters, told Blue Cross/Blue Shield (major insurer across the country) that they would pull their business if 'the Blues' insured folks at BHH (and other hospitals like it across the country).

Thus, while other hospitals providing sub-standard care are over-run (because they serve the uninsured) a modern facility stands empty because private enterprise is trying its best to kill it.

No one wants socialized medicine. 

What the Dems are trying to do is get some sense into the system, like making sure everyone has insurance (and thus avoid the need for places like KMC), and create a fair market for smaller hospitals to compete against the bigs, like the Mercys.

I hope this helps.

ROFL middle . . . a few years back I had a severe kidney infection that landed me in the Kern Valley Hospital.  From there they sent me in an ambulance to Fresno.  Three days total in the hospital and the total bill was $30,000.

Insanity!

Dirty ~ thanks for your insight.  But I DO have insurance!  It's called "Kern Medical Center Health Plan."

Seriously.  It's a new program run by the state.

So we can all have health insurance, I guess.

One correction on health care at KMC.  Their ER system and some of the outpatient followup in a disaster but once you get in and get a bed their care is top notch.  It's a teaching hospital and some of the best doctors are there.  A lot of the local doctors interned there as well.

Motopoets private doctor insisted on him having his neck surgery there as it was best equipped for that type of surgery.  Dreams kidney surgery was done there as well.  They have one of the best trauma centers around.  As frustrated as I get at the outpatient part, I give credit where credit is due.

Good point NancyII.  I meant to mention that but guess I was too busy complaining.  I couldn't have asked for better care when I had my surgery, not to mention the doctors did everything in their power to save my kidney before having to remove it.

Soooo, if you didn't have that socialized option.....what would you have done?

Find a rich old man with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel?

Seriously, please don't think I'm not grateful for the care I'm receiving.  Without KMC I don't know what I would have done.

My point is we already have these "socialized options" available and they just don't work very well.  Having to wait at least two months to see a doctor is not a sign of the system working very well.  Filthy, disgusting bathrooms is not a sign of the system working very well.

Just because you have a socialized option doesn't mean that it has to be inefficient and run like KMC.  I have a lot of family that lives in Canada, and they have always loved their health care.  In fact, it's what they're proudest of.   Say what you want about Cuba's health care system (the truth is, we really don't know much about it), but their life expectancy rate is still higher than ours, and their infant mortality rate lower.

Which makes you a picture perfect reason why we need healthcare reform.  Given the fact that you can't work outside of your home, and the fact that you probably have a medical condition that no health insurance company would cover you for, you are one of the people that is really being left out of having healthcare. 

I'm not going to sit here and say the system doesn't have it's problems.  It does.  But is that a reason not to persue change to the system?  I don't think so.  Just to say we shouldn't, because the system has issues doesn't make much sense to me.

Yup.  Let's change the system.  Let's put our health care in the hands of the government.  After all they've done such a good job with our tax dollars.

The question is do you want the current system improved or do you want government managed health care?  No one is saying we don't need improvements but I don't want the government in control of our health care.

I'd love to stay and argue but I'm off to do my part for the Libraray.  If any on you (like Ds) think there's any anonymity on my part, drop by Saturday from noon to 3-4 and visit.  I'll be working the checkout  with some other great people.

And here's my contribution to anonymity.

Spam code...oiyea  ..too funny.

^<..........................................

For every bad experience someone has with medicare or KMC, I can give you just as many people that have a bad experience with private coverage.  Blaming it on the government isn't a very moving arguement anymore.

Amen to Dreams last post!  

 Given the fact that you can't work outside of your home, and the fact that you probably have a medical condition that no health insurance company would cover you for, you are one of the people that is really being left out of having healthcare. 

Even working at home is extremely hard for me.  Some days I worry I won't make enough money to buy groceries.  I've found health care companies that WILL cover me.  But it's hard to come up with that kind of a month payment when you're worried about eating, or if you're going to be able to get out of bed at all that day.

This is where Social Security Disability should kick in.  But it doesn't, you have to fight for it every step of the way, and I've been told it will probably take two years and 25% of what I finally DO recieve to pay for a lawyer to help me fight for it.

A government that takes two years to grant benefits for disabled people who paid that money into that system in the first place? 

Sorry, but I don't have a lot of faith in them.  You see, if our system worked correctly in the first place I'd have health care benefits through Social Security.

So if anyone has "left me out of healthcare," it's the very government who now proposes to make sure I have it.

Ridiculous

So if anyone has "left me out of healthcare," it's the very government who now proposes to make sure I have it.

We've never really had the political will to ensure that everyone had health insurance till now.  Clinton tried but did not have the support of congress.  This is the first time in our history that we have a real chance at it.  Current programs are half hearted attempts by the states( to provide to people who otherwise would not qualify or could not afford it) without addressing bigger complex issues like rising costs and the health insurance industry.

A public option is the only reasonable way to do it.

No doubt about it ...

--virgil

Let's just ensure the management model is not taken from Kerntown Medical Center.

--virgil

Didn't they actually turn a profit for the first time in about 30 years this last fiscal year?

again..show me any government program that runs efficiently and doesnt cost the taxpayers more than originally estimated.

with government run health care, people will then not be motiviated to do well in school, get a good job that has benefits...they will walk around with their hand out, with a sense of entitlement.

why not just fix issues in the current health care program, like

1. if they cannot pay for it, dont give services
2. tort reform
3. boot big phama out of the doctors offices

i know there is more..i just cant remember them

no need to spend a trillion dollars we dont have, and wont have any time soon,  just fix the current system

Medicare runs just fine--the parts the Repubwhigans haven't gotten their hands on, that is.

 if they cannot pay for it, dont give services

Even the Soviet Union had more compassion for its fellow man than that.  Why don't we throw them to the lions while we're at it?

How about cut Defense spending in half and fund the whole thing (with less tax liability for every American)?

medicare uses more that what it first was said it was going to cost the taxpayers...and it isnt just the republicans that are dipping into the cookie jar..it comes from both sides of the aisle

like i said, show me ANY government program, and i will show you a textbook example of inefficiency....

I dont trust my health, nor my family's to inefficiency.

wanna trust the government with your retirement?

I say end the drug war  - That's fifty ( 50 ) billion, right there !

Bahda-Bing, Bahda-Boom.

--virgil

How about cut Defense spending in half and fund the whole thing (with less tax liability for every American)?

you know, our military should only protect our country.  we have the technology to reach anywhere on the globe within a matter of minutes with classified weapons.  i bet that would cut the military budget in half

but the libs wont vote for that because then we'd have to "drill here, drill now"

sorry, if you feel medical care is a necessity, then you should budget for it. if you don't, and youre in need, who's to blame?

Let them Eat Cake, huh ?

That's not very American, Learnem.

--virgil

sorry, if you feel medical care is a necessity, then you should budget for it. if you don't, and youre in need, who's to blame?

That's what I say about the government.  If it's really a national priority then budget for it.  Evidently we think putting our military in all regions of the world is important and we are willing to spend trillions to accomplish that goal.  Until we have the political will, we will not have it.  We will even spend billions to save companies that have no loyalty to America as a nation.  The US is realizing that they are not budgeting for the enormous costs that they inherit because there are Americans that are not covering their medical costs (due to bankruptcy or other financial strain).  Somebody is going to pay.  The question is who?

I also believe you can personally budget for medical care and still lose.  It's happening all over America.  Who is realistically saving millions of dollars in case they get cancer?

I agree with you btown, I have health insurance, it doesn't make going to the hospital any more affordable nor do I have a better experience.   I am pissed off that I have to pay $500 a month, then when my son has an asthma attack I have to go to the emergency room, then get stuck with a $2000 bill. I would love to go to the doctors instead of the ER, but guess what all doctors work 8-5, urgent care is 8-9 and children normally get sick at 10, aargh.  I don't understand why we can't have medical offices open at night and 24x7 urgent care

sorry you dont agree Virgil...but hey, if were just gonna give everything away, then why should we even encourage our kids to do well in school?  whats the point if doctors, who traditionally make a great living, would earn the same as a middle manager for a firm?

gotta start having some personal responsibility somewhere, imo

 Let them Eat Cake, huh ?

It's Reagan Cheese, Virgil.  Remember that?  It made great nachos if you just added a little milk. 

I would not have made it through the 80's if it was not for Reagan's government cheese.  It was a great way to bridge the food gap while he punished those welfare queens for working the system.

  I don't understand why we can't have medical offices open at night and 24x7 urgent care

They have that in socialist Canada.  My oldest has the best of both worlds.  He has coverage as a Canadian citizen and he has coverage under my socialist government plan in the states.  If he travels anywhere in the world, he's covered.

you know, our military should only protect our country.  we have the technology to reach anywhere on the globe within a matter of minutes with classified weapons.  i bet that would cut the military budget in half

I think that's a good idea, Learnem

I do remember.

I gave the cheese away and kept the butter.  :   )

--virgil

Doctors in countries with socialized medicine (UK, France, etc.) do make a good living.  They may not have 5 Audis but they have two.

I gave the cheese away and kept the butter.  :   )

We even had Government Issue corn flakes for granny on the rez.  I love Reagan for that.

The powdered milk sucked but beggars can't be choosers.

from what i have read...very few make the living they did before it was socialized

Luckilly, Granny had a few goats for the milk.

  We had peanut butter,  as well

And I didn't  like the taste of that either. But,  the powdered milk was better when mixed with real milk.

--virgil

from what i have read...very few make the living they did before it was socialized

Really?  That had to be an old publishing because socialized medicine has been around for 50+ years in Europe.  It was part of that Marshall Plan thing.  How ironic, the US helped set up universal health care in Europe.  Maybe what you read was refering to the new changes in the British system?

I agree with you, though.  They will not make the same living. 

If you grew up in KC (you didn't if I recall) there would be long lines about a half mile long at the Friendship House on Cottonwood as they passed out the government cheese in the 80's.  It wasn't much different from what they do in Cuba with their Special Period Rations after the collapse of the USSR.

Isn't everyone taking a paycut these days (except CEOs of MNCs and military)?

I was in school in the eighties,  reading  In These Times and the  Nation weeklies.

I was a card carrying member of the Democratic Socialists ( of America ) party when Michael Harrington and Barbara Erhenriech were co-chairs.

--virgil

Wow, you're old school, Virgil.

Comejo was my man.  He died too soon.

Again, I repeat:

So if anyone has "left me out of healthcare," it's the very government who now proposes to make sure I have it.

Just like they're making sure we all have a happy and well funded retirement through Social Security.  I mean think about it, they did so well managing that . . .

i was born and raised in bako......i never really made it out to cottonwood too much after i went to a party out there when i was in high school, and got shot at because of my skin color....

why was the line so long?  didnt many of those people also receive social services as well?