Reminds me of grand theft auto games, you can also shoot people, steal cars, mug, and run over people, ect. without any real life repercussions and no real mess, other than a girlfriend whining at you for wasting so much time.

As my son likes to say "It's not about the dead deer you bring home, it's about the time spent together."  But the deer has great benefits too.  As you said Goat, it puts healthy food on the table but it also thins the herd.  Something a video game can't do.  Stop hunting for just a few seasons and you'll be pleading with the government to let those bad old hunters start shooting Bambi again.  And it isn't just walking up to a shy lonely deer and shooting him while he looks at you lovingly with those big brown eyes.  Theres the back packing in and the tracking of the game.  A lot healthier than sitting in front of a video game eating cheetos.  And it's tradition passed down from one generation to the next.  A video game can only simulate so much.  When you're deer hunting you see and experience things video game players and paintballers will never understand.  Video games and paintball aren't real.  Hunting is. 

I find it much more exciting to hunt down people; that's why I play paintball. Babmi can't shoot back at you. Where's the fun in that? Nothing gets the blood pumping like the feeling of stalking something that is stalking you right back. And other than a few bruises, nobody gets hurt. Afterwards you can go have a rare steak if you need actual blood on your hands...

Hunting is a wonderful past time, a great way to put healthy food on the table, and a great way to spend time with your kids.  Video games can be fun, but nothing can replace the benefits of being out in the field experiencing it first hand.

You're right dgrealish, no one can never say enough about how important hunting is to conserving our natural habitat.  Not only from the game management/land management perspective, but also all of the revenue that is generated by hunters that goes directly into conservation.  Even though not everyone likes to hunt, hunting helps everyone....  Even those who don't participate.

Dgrealish, I would be willing to pit paintball against hunting any day. Other than the meat you can bring home (and thinning the heard, etc.), you can get everything you would get from hunting through paintball. Sure, paintball isn't "real", but that doesn't make the adreneline rush any less real, the time spent with friends/family outside any less real, the workout you get any less real. Try stalking a person for an hour or more through the woods, knowing that one misstep can make you the target, and you'll know true hunting. Doing a belly-crawl through 100 yards of cover to surprise a bunker full of people looking out for you, that is something you can never understand going after Bambi.

Yeah, like rolling a six and landing on Park Place.  Game's over for you, right.  You're not going to die if you're shot.  A bruise and some paint.  I know the deer can't shoot back, but you're being hunted by your buddies not the commies.  You're not going to get a purple heart for your injuries.  It's tag on steriods.  It's a game.  Hunting is a SPORT! 

No, sorry, sport is something with two (or more) sides competing directly against one another, using rules and points, to determine a winner. A game is something people can play either individually or in a group, where no opposing side is required, and individual scores are tallied at the end to determine a "winner". If one person can do it alone, it's a game. If you need at least two people, it's a sport. Golf is a game. Football is a sport. Bowling is a game. Soccer is a sport. Hunting is a game. Paintball is a sport. Point, set, match.

Mattloch:  The hunter is in direct compeititon with his game.  The compeitition is called "Survival of the Fittest."  The animal that's taken is taken because he wasn't the fittest.  If the hunter isn't fit enough to take game, he doesn't eat.  It is the origional sport that gave birth to all of the others.

Thanks Goat, I do appreciate the clarification.  By Mattloch's own defination Monopoly would be a sport.  Card games would be sports.  Hell, they're holding Hot Dog eating competitions, but that doesn't make it a sport!  My sons played paintball when they were younger.   Now they hunt.  Neither feels paintball is in the same league with hunting.  When's the last time you had to gut, skin, quarter and pack your 200 lb kill out sereral miles after a day of paintball.  You get shot in the leg with a paintball, game over.  You go have a few beers and talk about the game.  After the deer is shot, the work has only just begun.  You see, you're looking at it from your make believe perspective Mattloch.  Hunting is can only be observed from a REAL WORLD perspective.

Many people who've had little or not exposure to hunting don't realize that all of the sports we enjoy today have evolved from games people used to play that mimicked hunting or fighting, because that's what they had to do to survive and the games they played developed and honed those skills. 

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Today we take our survival for granted.  We may not always have it so easy.

Nope, sorry. I don't buy it. That's why you call deer "game". I might be able to agree with you if you were hunted back. Lions, panthers, water buffalo, something with pairity between the two sides. Setting a trap and ambushing a defenseless animal is not a "sport". That's not "survival of the fittest". That's slaughter. Hunting deer is less of a "sport" (if you insist on calling it that) than hunting an equally-equipped animal. Goat, if you aren't good enough to catch an animal, that's why we evolved molars. Grind some roughage, you savage. ;) This blog started with a story about people replacing real hunting with virtual hunting. I stated that I consider playing paintball a form of hunting, in some cases superior to tracking down "Bambi". And ever since then, nobody has been able to argue sucessfully against my contention that every skill or benefit you can get from hunting deer (other than the actual meat), you get more of from playing paintball. Hunting deer is no longer a matter of survival for us. It is done recreationally. In every case, I still say that paintball is superior.

Mattloch, try to stay with me.  Hunters are in the elements a couple of days at a time.  They pack all their provisions (about 40 lbs each) in with them.  They track their game (not Bambi, real deer) in their own habitat.  Deer posess instincts to help them evade their enemy ( the hunters ).   Unlike in  paintball, theres no opportunity for the hunter to learn the habits of an individual deer, thus making the hunting easier.    And to expand on a point Goat made, knowing how to hunt "game" may seem unimportant to you now, but if we ever have a food shortage, cannibalism is illegal.

>>>That's not "survival of the fittest". That's slaughter.
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---->It's much less of a slaughter than raising a cow in a mud puddle filled with his own shit, force feeding him huge amounts of unnatural foods, shooting him full of hormones and antibiotics, and then killing him for food, never giving him a chance to to earn the opportunity to continue living.
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>>>if you aren't good enough to catch an animal, that's why we evolved molars. Grind some roughage, you savage. ;)
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---->No thanks, that's what food eats!
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>>>Hunting deer is no longer a matter of survival for us.
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--->For you maybe...  I try hard to aviod buying meat in the store (I'm not always as successful at that as I'd like to be).  In addition to that, I'd like to be able to be self sufficent in the event of a serious breakdown of our food distribution process (war, natural disaster, etc.)  I take personal responsibility seriously and don't expect anyone else to take care of me in the event of an emergency/disaster.
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>>>I still say that paintball is superior.
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---->It really doesn't matter to me what you think is superior, lol.

dgrealish: if it ever comes down to it, I think that in the event of a food shortage, there will be bigger fish to fry than the cannibals...  ;) And if you think stalking a person for an hour makes it "easier" than sitting in a deer blind watching a salt lick, you've got another thing coming. Goat: I never said that my 4x4 'animal-style' at In & Out wasn't slaughter. I just think that ambushing Bambi is unnecessary precisely because we have slaughterhouses providing meat for us. If it comes down to it, I would have no problem being a vegetarian, and I try to be as much as possible (so much so that I "failed" my last blood test b/c my iron count was too low). My comments that paintball gives us more "sport" than video games without the "unnecessary" killing on hunting is still uncontradicted. I'm not trying to make you think what I think, just defending my argumentative ground, is all...

Carnivorous animals aren't good to eat. Their meat flavor is too strong.

 

Where I live, if we don't kill a couple of Deer off of the Farm each year, they'd overun us. They already come into the yard and eat plants in the flower beds. I don't hunt for sport. I do it to keep them out of the yard and because I like eating them. If man were meant to be a Vegetarian, we'd all have several stomachs, like a Cow. That's what it takes to fully digest most plants.

 

We also hunt a lot of Squirrel. There's nothing like Squirrel and Dumplings.

 

There's a Hunting Club in Louisiana called The Lancers (I think). It's a really old organization. Anyway, they hunt large game with big knives, that they make by hand. This is true........

 

Someday, I want to hunt Wild Boar with a Willow Switch. That should be a challenge, don't you think???? (lol)

Poor animals :-(

Mattloch, deer blinds and salt licks aren't used in these parts.  That's more of an east coast thing.  But since we're still going at it,  besides being told to be careful or you'll hurt yourself, what hunter safety course was required before you got your paintball lisence?  How much preparation goes into a paintball "hunt" besides a trip to Wal-Mart for more "ammo" and the liquor store for more beer before you're ready to go? Where do you apply for your "paintball tag"?  When's the last time you had to take your paintball gun out to site-in the scope? And after the hunt, how long does it take to clean that "paintball gun" before you return it to the gun safe?  Real hunters have to follow a myraid of regulations and have countless skills to kill one deer a year.  You get to go outside and play anytime you want.  And you still couldn't use your skill to feed your family. 

tonyh, I like your style ; )

Thanks,

 

Normally, if we won't eat it, I won't kill it. Sometimes I go "Squirrel hunting" just so I can get a good nap under my favorite Hickory. You'd be suprized how much better I feel after a couple of hours.

 

I guess I shouldn't tell him about Juvenile Hunts. We catch Deer and tie them to trees. I makes it a lot easier for the little kids to shoot them (lol). It makes Mom so proud when "Little Jummy" comes home with his first Deer.

I'm sorry dgrealish, do you know how many people have been killed playing paintball? I do. I'll give you a hint. It's less than one. There's plenty of prep work, and some people even train before they go out (I've got a velcro target set up in my house). I sight-in my scope (to the greatest degree possible; we are talking about round balls filled with liquid here) every time I do target practice. It takes me an hour or so to clean my marker, but I also have one of the most complex ones out there. There are plenty of regulations that you need to follow in paintball to do it safely as well. As for feeding the family, did you read the article in today's paper? First prize is 12 grand. That'll buy lots of groceries.... Tony, I could say the same thing about cats in my neighborhood. I could, but I won't.

You should see the huge quail living in my neighborhood.  I can't wait until the season opens so I can walk out into the field across the street from my house and shoot some!  dam my mouth is watering already!

OOOOHHHH!  Velcro!  How state of the art!  Well I hope you wih the 12 grand Mattloch.  Use it to buy some more toys.  You know what they say about the difference between men and boys.  You're living in Dungens and Dragons world.  The real world is too scary.  And yes,  people have died in hunting accidents.  My great uncle, God Rest His Soul, died in a hunting accident.  But he was living.  Not pretending.  And that's what it all boils down to.  You ether living or pretending to live.  But hey, you're happy pretending, and that's what matters. 

It's been my experience that people (except for a very few) are really easy to hunt. They leave really good tracks and signs to follow. In the Military, they taught me how to stalk Humans, and avoid detection. It's awfully hard to rescue the crew of a downed aircraft, if you get caught by the bad guys first. We had lots of Velcro in the Military. Uncle Sam thinks it's neat stuff too. I think the neatest toy that Uncle Sam gave me was a custom made US Divers Wetsuit (Long and Short), the whole temale. They took 28 measurements and custom made it for me. They gave me a lot of cool stuff, but the Wetsuit was by far, my favorite.......

 

 

Here is a question to ponder.............

How much cash do paint ball players contribute to fish and game programs in the course of purchasing equipment and playing their game? Um...........my guess is none. On the other hand each tag and license bought for hunting brings revenue to fish and game programs that fund biology and game research throughout the respective states. For a quick look at the economic contribution hunter make take a look at this link: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/hunti...

If you think that it's ambush and slaughter, think again. Take a look at hunter success rates in this state. The largest 'zone' in California is A zone. Success rates are typically around 8 to 10 percent. Remember it starts next month and temperatures run in the 90's to 100's. It's not for the weak or couch potatoes. Hunters don't finish in a few hours and drive 30 minutes to the house to shower and watch TV. If anyone thinks it's sitting over a "salt lick" and just pick one to shoot, they are sadly mistaken. Typically this opinion is propagated by those who are not educated in hunting, field-craft, survival, and everything else it takes to bring food to the table. I won't even get into the health aspects of eating wild game compared to store bought meat or fast food. It's a night and day comparison.

There is so much more to hunting than harvesting game. How many paint ballers or video game players get to see a covey of quail or chucker? How about bears or mountain lions? How about watching a newborn fawn or a pup coyote playing for hours on end. I doubt you'll see much or that on a paint ball field or watching a video game. Or how about something as simple as watching a beautiful sunrise from the field away from the city?

Sorry, I'll take my sport over anyones game any day of the week.

For some it may be a hunt but my landlord hunts in the midwest and they have blinds built into the trees where they sit and wait.  Sorry, that's not hunting.  He defends it aying it is, I say sitting in a tree waiting for an animal to come along, shooting it from that blind, is not hunting.  NOR is that a sport.  He is perfectly capable of buying food for his table so we're not talking about survival here.   When the deer population begins to overcrowd an area I suppose THAT area could be opened up for hunting but If it were up to me there would be NO ambush...you would get off your duff and stalk or actually "hunt" the prey."  I'm not a tree hugger or particularly an animal activist but please...if you're going to go out, sit in a tree, and shoot an animal, then call it what it is.

 

Tell your friends and family "I'm going ambushing today."  Don't glamourize it by calling it hunting.

Nancyq, you said your landlord hunts in the midwest.  The point has already been made that salt licks and deer blinds aren't used out here.  Read what Glocker has to say if you don't want to go back to the beginning.  You'll get a better idea of what we're talking about.  Tonyh, I realize velcro has many wonderful uses.  I was simply making fun of the velcro target Mattloch uses for practice.  My arguement is still with his statement that he'd pit paintball against hunting any day.  I've spoken with several ex-paintballers who grew up to be hunters.  The feeling is strong and unanimous that paintball simply isn't in the same league with hunting.  Glocker, thank you, thank you, thank you!  I was wondering what happened to all the hunters in good ole Bakersfield! 

drealish,

My velcro comments were poking fun at him too. That's why I got off on the Wetsuit thing. I figured that it had as much to do with Deer Hunting as Paintball.

I agree that Paintball is just a game. 99% of my comments on this blog are not serious because I just can't take this subject seriously. Comparing Paintball and Deer Hunting is like comparing dirt clods and hard boiled eggs...........................Doesn't work.

 

My Boys and I hunt and fish A LOT! My Sons are 11 and 14 and have both tried Paintball. Neither of them really care for it much. They'd rather shoot Clay Pigeons of Tin Cans for fun.

 

Smile with me and have fun with this subject................................

Again, I point to the origin of this blog: people have alternatives to actually hunting. My contribution was that there are other sports that use similar skills, gives the person a similar emotional rush and physical tests, and do not result in the killing of animals. I also spoke of the equality between players (or hunters and hunted, if you will) of paintball, which does not exist in deer hunting. If your contention that other sports simply cannot compete with actual hunting, and that if you're not a hunter you cannot speak of the sport, I must disagree. That is like saying that if you don't play professional football, you're not qualified to speak of it, and have no other way to replicate the game. Video games contribute nothing to the understanding of strategy, people who play "touch" or "flag" football are posers and should not even waste their time. Unless you're one of the thousand or so men who play, you can't even appreciate watching it on tv, and should just change the channel. Oh, and have you ever played paintball? If not, would I be justified in disqualifying you from the discussion? Dgrealsih, I do live in the real world. A world where people no longer have to hunt animals to survive. I pay others so that I can spend my time doing other things. If your world in one in which you still must stalk and kill your dinner, I woner who isn't living in the "real" world? If your arguement is that you must hunt your food to truly be "alive", then I guess I'll have to start creeping up on my steaks. How do you stalk a salad? Should you use a shotgun or rifle to bring down a wild pack of soda? Yes, I will grant you that paintball isn't like really killing another human being. But is that a bad thing? By your calculation, unless you're a professional athlete, you're not really playing the game. And anything that isn't designed and used to kill is a "toy"? Nice. Real civilized. Tony: Agreed. Stalking the unknowing and unaware isn't much of a challenge. But stalking another soldier, trained and similarly equipped, is not easy, and that is exactly what paintball is. I bet you would actually be amazed at the technology that goes into paintball. Glocker: actually, if a person develops a field for playing paintball, they have to pay development fees just like anyone who builds a house or a commercial building. But then by that calculation it would make every homeowner a contributer, and those people are the real financial engine behind the CDFG. As for the health benefits, that's why I try to eat "free" or "open range" meats and "organic" fruits and veggies. And I would be willing to bet that they're less risky in terms of risks of infection or taintage from handling and processing. As for the appreciation of nature, I've seen all those things on fields I've played on around the state, and more. Plus, I get all of those things when I go backpacking, in spades.

Mattloch, you're a great one for misquoting.  I never said you had to stalk and kill your food.  On the contrary, you're the one who wanted to "pit paintball against hunting".  That's all I was doing.  As for living in the real world.  My world is as real as it gets.  I never said you had to play a sport professionally in order to really play.  That's your spin on it.  I never said anything that isn't designed to kill is a toy.   But pit a paintball gun agianst a deer rifle as you're willing to do any day, one is deffinately more toy-like than the other.   Even your statements to Glocker have nauseated me!   And NO I've never PLAYED paintball.  But I've talked to a number of former paintballers who now hunt.  Their opinion is that paintball isn't even in the same league as hunting.  How many hunters turned paintballers have you discussed this with?  I'd be interested in their opinions.   And it's been said before, Mattloch, we may not have to hunt animals to survive, but just go a couple of seasons without hunting and you'll be singing a different tune.  The price you'll be paying others will certainly go up.  Farmers depend on hunters, you depend on farmers.  That my friend is the way it works in the real world. 

The previous statement was made by dgrealish.  I don't know what happened.

Tonyh, I'll try to stay with you.  I apologize for for the misunderstanding. 

dgrealish,

No apologies needed.

......It's "All Good" here : )

 

..........................See how easy life can be?.......................

Misquotes: "knowing how to hunt "game" may seem unimportant to you now, but if we ever have a food shortage, cannibalism is illegal" and "And you still couldn't use your skill to feed your family" does not mean "you (have) to stalk and kill your food". Seems pretty close to me. . "When you're deer hunting you see and experience things video game players and paintballers will never understand.  Video games and paintball aren't real.  Hunting is" does not mean "you have to play a sport professionally in order to really play". My arguements about stalking, aiming, etc. with one sport does not equal the same exact skills in another sport are dismissed by you in one fell swoop of your hands. I still content that one does not have to kill to hunt. While the two skillsets of hunting and paintball are not precisely the same, my contention is that they are the closest to one another that you are likely to find. Being able to thow a football gives you a greater appreciation for the sport of football; I continue to say that paintball gives people a greater appreciation of hunting. Your argument that you must hunt to appreciate it I see as elitest and exclusionary. It may not actually be that, it just appears that way to me. . Granted, you did not say that killing was required, but to discount a paintball marker is similar in characterization as saying that a regular car is a toy compared to a race car. They both do the same thing, are used in the same way, and accomplish similar ends. But short of causing massive physical harm, the actual function of both are extremely close. I have talked to dozens of people who have done both hunt and paintball, and while they say that the two are different, they all say that they are very close to one another, and that skills in one translate very well into the other. Certainly more so than video games or books would. . I'm not sure which of my statement "nauseated" you (from developers paying CDFG fees, to domesticated animals or crops being close to the same nutritional value as wild game, or the appreciation of nature whether out killing it or simply being in it), but your statement that "farmers depend on hunters, and you depend on farmers" is purely wrong. If you're referring to the need of keeping "nuisance" species in check (deer, squirrels, etc.) because they might somehow overrun farmers, I'm wondering why we can't invest some of the CDFG monies in preserving the species that have historically keep those animals in check (wolves, etc.) instead of "needing" people to hunt them. And I don't think that the Central Valley is a risk of being swarmed by roving packs of deer, and the only thing saving us from cannibalism are the few brave hunters out there. I think you'll find each of my arguments are as general as possible, and that while some of my questions to you are extremist or mis-characterizations, I don't think that you'll find any place where I've called people who hunt names. You, on the other hand, have taken great pains to belittle me and avoid any of my more rational questions to you. I certainly respect your obviously deeply-held beliefs that hunting represents a noble and honorable pastime, and can see things from your point of view. I would ask you to think about what I've said throughout this blog topic and try to see where my points might be valid as well.

nancyg:  I guess the spider that digs a hole in the ground and waits for game to walk by before swiftly pouncing on it from it's hidden position and kills by injecting poison into it. 

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That should probably be illegal too huh? 

Very well said Glocker!

Glocker, do you hunt upland game or waterfowl?  I do alot of hunting with my gundog here in Kern County. 

Let me start with what nauseated me about your statement to Glocker.  It wasn't the actual statement about the CDFG, it's the spin you put on every statement.  Sure developers pay a portion of their permit fees to the CDFG.  As a developer I'm all too aware of this.  But to minimize the monitary contributions made by the hunters when they buy their license & tags and fishermen when they buy their license or day pass is a huge twist of the truth.  Done to make your point appear reasonable.  I find that nauseating.  When this thing started, I said paintball and video games weren't real.  I stand by that.  You said, "try stalking a person for an hour or more through the woods, knowing that one misstep can make you the target, and you'll know true hunting".  So who is the elitist?  I said paintball is tag on steroids.  I stand by that.  Maybe it can get your adrenaline pumping, but after you've been hit, what?  The Game Is Over.  Like a rollercoaster ride.   As far as farmers needing hunters in the Central Valley, deer aren't the only thing that's hunted.  If not for the hunters, we would be overran with dove after one season.  There are other birds and varmints that are harmful to crops and many farmers have hunters thin them out.  It's a useful service for the farmer and great target practice for the hunter.  "Bambi can't shoot back at you", "that is something you can never understand going after Bambi", "Setting a trap and ambushing a defenceless animal is not a sport", "I stated that I concider playing paintball a form of hunting, in some cases superior to tracking down Bambi".  Some of your words could be concidered disparaging, Mattloch.  I think your innocence may be in question. 

Mattloch, I realized a comment I made in my last statement was unfair and I wanted to correct it.  A rollercoaster rider takes a bigger chance than a paintballer or a video game player.  Many things can go wrong on a rollercoaster.  So my comparison trivialized the risks a rollercoaster rider takes.  Paintball is played in a controlled environment.  When a deer hunter goes out into the wilderness to hunt, he's surrounded by things unknown.  He's going to stay in that wilderness environment a couple of nights, sleeping in a tent, open to the elements.  He never knows what he might encounter. The most dangerous thing you're going to encounter is your buddy Bob sneaking up on you.  These things alone put hunting in an entirely different league than paintball or video games.  I'm Finished.

Dgrealish..I did read what was said before and and realize it had been covered.  I was only adding my comments to it and giving an example...that's why I made it clear that it was in the midwest.

I also made it very clear that I wasn't against HUNTING...only that I am against ambush being called hunting or a sport. 

 

Goat..as for a spider setting a trap for it's prey..that's how the spider survives.  There's a big difference in a creature doing what it has to do to eat and a human sitting in a tree waiting to kill a deer just because he can.

dgrealish,

You're right about the Dove. When I was a kid, growing up around the County, Farmers used to actually ask us kids to come hunt their Farms. The Dove were so thick that they'd ruin a crop of Wheat or Milo. We ate everything that we shot.

 

The Feed Lots would pay us kids to shoot Sparrows. They'd give us 22 Short ammo and pay us 2 cents apiece for them. This was all in Kern County, in the 1970s.

NancyII:  The spider does it to survive, as do I.  It's not my problem that you are so far removed from the source of your food that you don't consider hunting necessary for your survival.

Goat..I still don't quite understand why you can't make a point without the sarcasm.( "It's not my problem that you are so far removed from the source of your food that you don't consider hunting necessary for your survival.")

I stated an opinion about ambush as opposed to hunting and you still insist that I'm against hunting.  I'm not sure where that's coming from.    And no, I don't consider hunting necessary for my survival.  That doesn't mean I wouldn't hunt if that's the only way I could survive though.  Are you actually telling me that you couldn't survive if you didn't hunt for food? 

You're also comparing us with spiders who have no other means of survival ...it just isn't the case with us.

 

Once again though..I'll break down what my comment was about.  It was NOT about hunting.  It was about the way the venison or elk actually made it to the freezer.  Not if..but how.     I don't care for the taste of venison or elk but that's just me...you should be glad since that leaves more for you.   :-)

 

Now...I hope we can put that out of the way because somehow you aren't commenting on what I actually said.  What my next comment is on is the dog thing.   Even though I don't hunt I have a Lab who could benefit from your knowledge.  You sound like the kind of person that is a great trainer and I'll bet your dogs are good companions as well as hunters.  Allie hunts birds and moths as well as a fly or two ...she also went crazy when we had rats in the tree outside the patio.   When I tell her to get her frisbee she tears around til she finds it and brings it to me.    Oooops..I guess I shouldn't bring this up on this blog since I didn't mention paintballs.   I'll quietly slink away and find another place to post the dog question.

Mattloch, have you ever been hunting?

Quote “Tony: Agreed. Stalking the unknowing and unaware isn't much of a challenge. “End quote. Once again take a look at the success rates in this state. Have you ever stalked something that has superior senses, hearing, eyesight, smell, etc., in the environment in which they live and you don’t? To say it’s isn’t much of a challenge shows your lack of real knowledge about hunting. There is nothing about it that is easy. Period. To say so shows your ignorance on this subject. If it were that easy the rates would be in 90 percentile range, don’t you agree? If you have never hunted deer then you can not understand how ill-equipped we as humans are versus the prey we stalk. They are far better equipped than we can ever be. Remember we are in their environment, not something most are accustomed to on a regular basis. How do you think you would stand up to a cougar stalking you? They do alright for the most part. How about a pack of coyotes? To say or agree with the statement they are unknowing and unaware shows your lack of understanding of which you are responding to.

 

Quote” I do live in the real world. A world where people no longer have to hunt animals to survive.” End quote.

Quote” But stalking another soldier, trained and similarly equipped, is not easy, and that is exactly what paintball is.” End quote. A soldier? Since when does a game player equate to a “solider”? I hardly think that this can be the statement of someone living in the “real world”.  For you information there is plenty of places in the world, this country in fact, that hunting does mean survival. When I was younger it’s the only way we had meat to dine on. For some that are living day to day this is still the only way to feed families. Do not be so blinded as to think that it has changed that much over the centuries. People still hunt for survival. Because you quote” pay others so that I can spend my time doing other things.” End-quote does not mean others can do the same. That is a true elitist attitude.

 

Oh and by the way your response to me in an earlier post was nice spin. I am truly glad you have experienced those things in the wild. But I was speaking of paint ball players in general, not you specifically. Do they all see the same things I spoke of and you see on your trips?

Believe it or not, we are both exercising instinctual impulses. We just express it in different ways. You stalk game players (not soldiers) and I stalk game that I can utilize to feed family and friends. In fact I know people that struggle to feed their families and do not believe in being on the government handout programs. I donate many, many pounds of fresh meat to help get them by. None of them have ever told me that a paint ball gamer has donated as much as a hot dog to them.

 

Goat, I hunt upland birds, but not as much as I would like. I concentrate my time on deer and hogs, although time is a precious commodity these days. Something I lack an abundance of, I’m sad to say.

Nancy:  I was directly addressing your points, you were just not able to see it through the sarcasm.  For that I apologize.  I can be pretty sarcastic, especially when I see the conversation is going no where.  
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I understand your point about the morality of certain hunting tactics.  What I am trying to say is that you are so concerned about my hunting tactics (which are very similar to those used in the wild) yet you seem so completely unconcerned about the cruel and unnatural (as well as unhealthy) manner, your beef, pork, and chicken make it to your table. 
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You're right, at first glance it does seem unfair.  The reason it seems unfair is because you are regarding an animal as you would a person.  It would be horrible of me to spend months studying the terrain and behavior/movement patterns, spend weeks scouting out a strategic location, wake up really early one morning, put on camoflauge clothes,  camoflauge my location, use centuries old techniques to cover my scent, hide in a clump of trees overlooking a heavily traveled route, and stalk my prey, suddenly without notice, silently sending an arrow through the chest of a man walking to work.  Then, once I've seen him go down, I run down to where he lies on the cold ground, chest heaving, wild eyed, breathing hard, and I use my knife to finish him.  Then I get a rope, hang him from a tree, and field dress him right there where he fell.  In a matter of about 40 minutes from the time he hit the ground, the only thing left of him on the sidewalk are his innards and the remains of his business suit laying there where he once layed, flies buzzing all around, and disappointed ticks sulking off to find a new host.
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You're absolutely right.  If my victim were a human on his way to work after having just kissed his wife and kids goodbye for the day, I'd be a terrible person.  But that's not at all what happened.
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Instead, if you understand the chain of events in the correct context, it makes alot more sense.  These animals aren't defenseless, as you imply.  They have evolved with very keen defenses that make them a very challenging game to pursue.  They have very sharp eye site, a very very good sense of hearing, and an incredible sense of smell.  They run very fast, are extremely agile, and swift.  They can bound straight up a hill so fast you can barely keep up when trying to follow them with your eyes.  They can run full speed straight down a mountain (a seemingly impossible feat), and their natural camoflauge allows them to blend in with their surroundings so well you can be looking right at them and not see them.  Most of their natural predators (which includes man) have developed techniques for over coming the defense mechanisms of these magnificant creatures.  One of those techniques is to find an area that is well traveled and wait from a hidden position and launch a suprise attack.  Spiders do it, lyons do it, almost every hunter on the planet uses that technique when necessary.  But, now that we're so far removed from our food source that we don't have to see it killed, we don't have to look into it's wild eyes as it's passing away, we don't have to clean and butcher it to convert if from a wild animal running free to the nice juicy steak dripping with A-1 sauce being being manipulatd into our mouth with a fork and knife.  We've become way too civilized to be so close to our food source.  Infact, while we're killing our heart with that $6 cheese burger from Carls Junior, we have no idea that as recently as just a few weeks ago, that cheese burger was a cow, living in piles of it's own shit, being force fed unnatural amounts of food it doesn't naturally eat, and being shot full of hormones and anti-biotics to the point where our own medicines no longer work for us and very young girls now look like fully matured women and are physically capable of giving birth at 9 and 10 years old.  But none of that really matters as long as we don't have to feel responsible for the death of a poor little defenseless dear that was killed by a terrible man hiding in the bushes.
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No ma'am, we are civilized.  When we obtain meat for our families, it comes wrapped real neat in white wrapping paper.  It doesn't look, smell, or feel like the animal it once was, and we successfully convince ourselves we are moral and civilized because we no longer HAVE to hunt for our survival.  We are actually successful at convincing ourselves there is some kind of difference between the one we drive past on our way to work that seems to notice us as we pass it everyday, as it's crammed into a crowded pen, living in dirt and shit, and the one sitting in our freezer waiting to be served to our children.  Now that's civilized!
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You can live however you want, but I choose to honor and preserve my heritage, I choose to maintain the skills necessary to survive in the event I need them some day, and I choose to eat a healthier diet that consists of organic and free range foods. 

Dam this website!  The last post about being civilized was posted by Goat.

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BTW Nancy, feel free to ask me about your dog, I'd be glad to help.

Glocker:  Great points!  If you ever wanted to go with me and shoot over a great gun dog, you're welcome to come along ;)

Arm the animals with a weapon and I will call it a sport!

Apparently you've never met a lion or a grizzly bear or a wild boar.  You should get out more...  It's alot of fun ;)

That's what you think!  I've met several boars.