You're right, though.  Someone might accidentally get credited for more Social Security than they're entitled to--since the "illegal" can't claim it.  What a tragedy.

 IRS Tells Boy He Owes Back Taxes on $60,000 

The Associated Press

February 23, 2008

CARPENTERSVILLE, Ill. - Police say identity theft is the reason the Internal Revenue Service recently warned a seven-year-old boy from the northwestern Chicago suburb of Carpentersville that he owed back taxes on $60,000.

Officers said Friday the second-grader's identity has been in use by someone else since 2001 -- not long after his birth.

Detectives accused 29-year-old Cirilo Centeno of Streamwood of using the boy's personal information to obtain a truck, three separate jobs, gas and electrical service for his home, a credit card, unemployment benefits and more than $60,000 in pay and services.

http://www.chicagotribune.c...

Granted, it is an awesome job. How do you work with a corrupt government that ignores widespread poverty and cannot deal with drug lords who are a law unto themselves? That seems to have its unsurmountable challenges as well. We don't have 12 million or so illegal residents because Mexico has a stable economy or government. I don't expect to see much change in the situation until we somehow get some kind of control on our border or until the Mexican government erodes and collapses, which it eventually will and hopefully, something better will come out of it.

Catpaw, there are thousands of miles of border to secure.  You aren't going to do it through physical means. 

The only way to "solve" the situation is to work with Mexico, Canada and employers in the US to make it less attractive to work here than to stay across the border and work *THERE*.  As long as there's economic pressure building up at the border, someone's going to tunnel under.

How about using someone else's license plates?  Can we execute them *THEN*?

You're right, though.  Someone might accidentally get credited for more Social Security than they're entitled to--since the "illegal" can't claim it.  What a tragedy.

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What if they *AREN'T* using someone else's SSN?  What if the reason the person hasn't renewed the registration is he's a wanted felon?  What if there were no hypothetical questions?

It's still obvious to me that there is no practical, workable solution to illegal immigration until the border is secure. Virtual fences, understaffed and underfunded border patrol officers, "guest worker" platitudes, ignoring current immigaration laws, etc. has made the situation worse and more complicated. Bush had time to take steps in securing our border but opted to listen to the voices, call it a mandate from God, ignore his Oath of Office to "protect and defend" and do nothing at all.

Nancy, both failure to register your car and failure to renew a green card are both paperwork violations.  Neither one carries a jail sentence.

Using a legal resident's stolen ID and SSN is a little bit more serious than a paperwork violation.

Yes, Gube, I am an American citizen and, being one, *UNDERSTAND*  what the Constitution says.

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Unless Shrub's amended the Constitution by himself these days (you can't tell, it may have been in a signing statement) it still doesn't say "if we don't like you, we can kick you out of the country and we get your stuff."

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Nancy, both failure to register your car and failure to renew a green card are both paperwork violations.  Neither one carries a jail sentence.  Both deprive the state of what it considers necessary revenue and information.  Both involve "unpaid" use of society's infrastructure--although, conceivably, both have compensations to the state. 

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The difference?  Most people who fail to register their pickups on time don't necessarily look "Messican" and so can't be singled out as somehow worth less as a person.  The entire anti-immigrant debate (and this is by no means the first one we've suffered through--look up the *EARLIER* "Know-Nothings" sometime)--is a sham.  A smokescreen.  Like Nazi Germany, it's a way that politicians (the Republican party in particular) can point a finger at an identifiable, relatively powerless group and say "*THOSE* people caused your problems, not us." 

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Gube agreed that "illegal is illegal" until I asked whether "illegal immigration" is equivalent in harm to murder.  He drew the line there.

Is it equivalent to child molestation?  I doubt he'd go that far.

Is it equivalent to rape?  Doubt it.

How about armed robbery.  Probably not.

How about burglary?  He'd try to make that case, but its nonsense to try.  The law obviously doesn't think it is, or the penalties would be similar.

OK, how about failure to register your truck on time?  Gee, *NOW* we're getting somewhere.

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Why are folks so worked up about several million people who failed to register their trucks on time?  Because those people are a recognized, powerless minority who can be blamed for the sins committed by a shadowy, *POWERFUL* minority.  The corporate boards who vote to send jobs overseas.  The Republican (and some Democratic) senators who voted to send the armed forces overseas.  The Republican President who's been robbing the country's Social Security system for seven years now to make his cronies even richer. 

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By beating up on the "Messicans" maybe folks can feel just a little bit more powerful and less picked-on.

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Hey, it worked for the Germans.  For a while.

That was some years ago. I understand one can still walk across the border but getting back across is awfully difficult if not impossible without a passport.

As of January 31, you need an ID as well as a passport, passport card, or other form of ID that proves your citizenship. You or I would be able to get back into the country with just a driver's license, but it would take a while for them to look up the info, and they probably wouldn't be too happy. I'm going to get a passport card; they're easy to carry around like any other card in your wallet.

I never drive into Mexico. I park at the Beyer Blvd. trolley station and pay to ride the trolley to the next stop, which is the border. Always walk across.

Nancy: If I went to Mexico legally, like any Mexican citizen I am subject to arrest on almost any pretext. I could be jailed until a judge gets around to seeing me; my defense in court would be based on me proving my innocence, not the state proving my guilt; if my vehicle is involved in an accident, especially if someone is injured or killed, my vehicle would be seized. In theory, I should recover it if I am found innocent, but in reality I'll never find it. As a foreigner I can lease real property but I cannot own it. This is generally the rule in countries south of the border. As an aside: too many American tourists go to these armpit countries thinking the US Constitution goes with them. It doesn't.

The last time I ventured into Mexico I parked my car on the American side (I didn't have Mexican insurance). I simply walked across the border, priced and bought a few trinkets, and walked back into the USA after telling the customs officer that I am American. That was some years ago. I understand one can still walk across the border but getting back across is awfully difficult if not impossible without a passport. Picture ID like a license doesn't cut it. Cruise ships now require a passport before boarding, they don't want to be stuck with an idiot who thinks he will simply be readmitted into the USA without a passport.

As to the original post, I maintain that US laws should be equally applied. Anyone in our country is subject to our laws. Arrest, detention, a defense, a timely appearance in court, seizure of property, are all subject to applied law. To use a different set of rules for somebody else because they are not citizens is contrary to the precepts of the Constitution. The immediate danger is the precedent that  you or I might be "different" at a later time. Small wonder Bush is being challenged by lawmakers over his arbitrary warrantless wiretapping--first it was organized crime now it includes terrorism. Scarier, who decides what is a criminal or a terrorist.

Cat..I was actually addressing RF's usual comment about licensing your car equating being in the country illegally but I'll bite on your comment.   If you were in say, Mexico illegally, and you were deported, do you believe you would be able to take any property you legally owned?

I'm not arguing..I'm genuinely interested.

(add on) Thinking on it a minute...maybe it depends on what that country considered legally yours.  But wait...if you were in the country illegally how could you make legal purchases?  This gets more and more complicated.

Nancy: The obvious remedy is deportation. This does not include seizure of property the deportee legally owns.

allred: The people to blame for the immigration mess are the people we elected (past and present) and trusted to enforce the immigration laws on the books and secure our border. Bad enough it was never a priority, now it is ignored altogether, along with the wishes of over 70% of the American people. I don't blame the Mexicans for coming here as much as I do the people who should have secured the border and enforced our laws in the first place.

Why not execute them, Gube?  Illegal is illegal. 

RF illegal immigrants don't deserve to be executed. They Deserve to be arrested and deported. If their family's and possessions are lost in the process oh well so sad too bad.

RF what part of ILLEGAL immigrant don't you understand? 

RF Are you a American citizen?

Random reminds me of the caller on Jaz McKay show Friday       He said it was Mrs Blair fault for not seeing the two drag racers coming down Stockdale

(Edited)

Mexicans racing across our Southern borders  and stealing  jobs stealing our Hospital rooms  stealing  the sercurity of our Nation   Stealing our Laws and Random blaming the Bairs of this Country for not allowing them to race across our Country and destroy it. 

Not licensing your truck on time carries a small fine (possibly) and the obligation to get it licensed therefore remedying the offense.    If you're in a country illegally what would you say should be the remedy for that offense?

edited for spelling and not proofing)

Why not execute them, Gube?  Illegal is illegal. 

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Or maybe you subconsciously recognize that not all crimes are equivalent.  Now  let's talk seriousness.  Being an "illegal immigrant" is roughly equal to not registring your truck on time.  The penalties should be similar.

Thanks put in a good word budy!

Budy? That's almost as brilliant as your version of "wonderful." You certainly are a champion speller, Raymond.

You mean there is still room in your class? Thanks put in a good word budy!

Some Atlanta police are KKK members and always have been. I guess they cannot lynch anyone, so take their cars.

Riiight. If you were any smarter, you'd qualify for special ed classes.

At the heart of the "illegal alien" controversy is pure, sweet racism.

In this case, "pure, sweet racism" is, in reality, telling-the-painful-truthism. I have made this same contention two or three times before, and you have yet to deny it. We both know why, don't we? Anything less than a denial adds up to an admission of guilt. It also exposes the real reason behind your illegal alien-felching mindset.

Some Atlanta police are KKK members and always have been. I guess they cannot lynch anyone, so take their cars.

Would you support the execution of "illegal" immigrants?  ha ha no

No, Gube.  If a person is in this country that person should be treated with the civil rights afforded to persons in this country.  The right to own property is not suspended because you're in the US. 

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Would you support the execution of "illegal" immigrants?  Murder is illegal.  "Illegal" immigration is illegal.  What's the difference?

If a person is in this country illegally then that person should be treated WITH prejudice. Your total disregard for the fact that they are criminals that are here illegally is appalling. Why is it that you people wont see that being here in the USA legally or illegally is two different things.

The offenses are roughly equivalent, however, Nancy.

However a person is here, he's still subject to the same laws. Seizing property according to immigration status is not applying the law equally without prejudice.

People who fail to register their pickup on time (my daughter included) aren't in this country illegally.

And by extention, random's point is that if the law is not applied equally to illegal Mexicans and pickup owners, then our protection under the law--radom's, catpaw's, gube's--is eroded. As Thomas Moore said in Man for All Seasons, "I would protect the devil for my safety sake."

Not according to the origional post--their property *IS* seized by the state in some cases, and they *ARE* carted off like undesireables.  And Gube's applauding that.  And he fails to show the same enthusiasm for treating, say, people who fail to register their pickup trucks on time, a comparable offense,  in the same manner. 

When illegals are arrested they are given the same consideration and accomodation as an arrested American. They are allowed to notify whomever of interest where they are, they are allowed to claim wages from an employer, their property is not seized by the state. They are not carted off like undesireables in Nazi Germany.

I am confused that bloggers on this site claiming to be loyal Americans would begrudge equality of the law to someone who is subject to our laws and...well, cart them off like undeireables in Nazi Germany.

Nope, Gube, the "uppity blacks" were born here.  And the color of their skins permitted them to be treated differently from "decent folk," as the Southerners would make the distinction.  Just like "illegal aliens."  You can tell they're not "our kind of people," to borrow another Southern expression.

RF the uppity blacks where brought here against their will.

The ''Mexicans'' as you call them, I call them illegal immigrants who broke the law by illegally sneaking into this country.

Your comparison doesn't hold water.

JBS, bless you for showing the essential truth of my post above.  I was going to make an argument--witty and cogent--but you made my case far more strongly than I could have.  At the heart of the "illegal alien" controversy is pure, sweet racism.

Gube, I know you can't understand.  I try to make allowances for that.

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In the years leading up to WWII, the Germans were given a nice target for their hatred, and told that an identifiable group were responsible for all their problems.  They had a "final solution" for it.

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In the south, after the Civil War, it was them uppity blacks who were the cause of it all.  Fortunately, some saviors in white sheets knew what to do.

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Nowadays, it's them Messicans what's trashed our economy.  But don't you worry none--there's fellers with blue suits and American flags in their lapels who'll make the scary dark people go away if you just vote for them.  *THIS* time they've got the right scapegoat.  *THIS* time it doesn't have to do with language or skin color. 

Its people like you RF that I don't understand. Are you or are you not an American? 

Gube, he has that attitude because his wife is of Hispanic descent. He couldn't get a white woman to marry him, so he had to settle for that.

So, we should enforce the law differently depending on who the suspect is? I believe they tried that down in the South in the 50's, and folks got a mite upset about it. But mainly the people who couldn't pass for white.

Hyperbolic drivel. Blacks weren’t breaking the law merely by being black. Illegals, by virtue of their illegal status, are illegal.

"Illegal is illegal," JBS. Whether it's failing to register your truck on time or failing to renew your green card on time.

In your dreams. The vast majority of illegals had no green card, they had a temporary visa that was good for six months. What percentage of legal residents with expired tags steal some kid’s SSN number?

 All illegal immigrants should be arrested and deported and all property seized. 

Its people like you RF that I don't understand. Are you or are you not an American?  

The part that makes them more of a threat to the nation's well-being than, say, the mysterious bee die-off or global warming.

Bees don't steal someone's identity. How many millions of illegals are using stolen IDs, driver's licenses, SSNs, etc.? One seven-year-old boy in Illinois received a notice from the IRS, demanding back taxes on income. The IRS said the second-grader owed taxes on $60,000.

The kid's mother claimed him as a dependent on her 2007 income tax and the IRS said no way; his Social Security number was being used by someone else. An illegal named Cirilo Centeno was charged with felony identity theft. He’s looking at an maximum of fifteen years. He deserves the maximum, and because it’s federal time, he’ll have to do 85% of it before he can be released.

So, we should enforce the law differently depending on who the suspect is?  I believe they tried that down in the South in the 50's, and folks got a mite upset about it.  But mainly the people who couldn't pass for white.

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"Illegal is illegal," JBS.  Whether it's failing to register your truck on time or failing to renew your green card on time. 

We could do some further good by expanding this idea. No insurance?  Seize the car. Tags out of date? Seize the car. After all, we're talking about similar levels of offenses here. Oh, and DUI? Seize the car.

If an illegal is driving, yes. The car should never be given back under any circumstances, even if the illegal borrowed it. If you loan your car to an illegal for any reason whatsoever - even an emergency - it gets impounded forever.

The part that makes them more of a threat to the nation's well-being than, say, the mysterious bee die-off or global warming.

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The "illegal alien problem" impacts me *ALMOST* as much as the "guys who didn't register their pickup on time" problem.  And the penalties should be similar as well.

RF what part of illegal immigrant don't you understand?

We could do some further good by expanding this idea. 

No insurance?  Seize the car.

Tags out of date?  Seize the car.

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After all, we're talking about similar levels of offenses here.

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Oh, and DUI?  Seize the car.

Yes catpaw all property should be seized. But usually the tow truck operator would steal or take any property left in vehicle so it doesn't really matter.

I think the impounded vehicle driven by an illegal criminally illegal immigrant will be sold and the profits are kept by the police Dept.

If your car gets impounded because your kid takes it on a joyride you will get it back when the impound time ends.

Wow. I hope you guys never get elected to public office.

personal belongings like the clothes on their back should be given back to them      

They shouldn't even allow them to keep those. Give them a Hefty bag with a hole cut in it to wear as a poncho. That's it.

When the Law is broken concerning Illegal Aliens       All they have should be seized     personal belongings like the clothes on

their back should be given back to them       When they take off their orange jail suit   and they are in the bus to be taken back

across the Border then they get their clothes

As far as the Flat screen     they were illegal obtaining it    they worked here Illegally 

I'm not sure I understand your post. I know what impounding a vehicle is; any vehicle that should not be on the road is subject to being impounded. Seizure, however, implies the owner cannot recover his property, the state assumes ownership without paying for it.

Anyone one in our country is subject to the same law. If my kid sneaks the family car and gets caught joyriding, my car is subject to impound. (And I get arrested for child abuse because I won't stop beating her until my arm gets tired.) If the unlawful driver is an illegal immigrant, he's treated differently. What if the vehicle contains work tools or a new flat screen tv just bought at Walmart? Is that part of the seizure? The whole prospect scares me.