Can't wait for Football to start.  Always look forward to it and feel lost when it is over.  GO USC!

Jason.  Why have I had to log in twice in a half hour?

That's two home run records (season, all-time) that are tainted.

Barry has never tested positive

He's never tested positive to a BANNED substance.

He has admitted to using steroids but said he didn't know what he was being given when he was using them.

And the chemists were staying one step ahead of the testing.

Cheating is cheating, whether it's Bonds or a pitcher.

Sports records will never again have the meaning they once did.

Shall we put an asterisk next to the Babe's name?  He is known on at least one occasion to have used a corked bat.  He also never played under stadium lights, nor was it routine to bring in fresh pitchers in the late innings, nor were the pitchers of Ruth's time (or Aaron's for that matter) likely using steriods as many of them have during Bonds'.

Thin-handled bats and smaller ball fields, especially the move from Candlestick Park (a terrible hitters field) to AT&T park (designed with Bonds in mind) have contributed to Bonds' increase in hitting home runs, and it's impossible to determine what role each of these factors has played in his setting the record.  Had Ruth and Aaron had these advantages during their careers, their home run production would no doubt have been higher.  On the other hand, Aaron spent most of his last two years as a full time designated hitter which added over 30 home runs to his career total.  Neither Bonds nor Ruth ever had that advantage.  People act as if steroids is the only reason that Bonds broke the record, when in fact it was probably a relatively minor factor when spread over the course of his career.

Finally, steroid use was not against the rules in Major League Baseball when Bonds allegedly started using them, nor for a few years thereafter.   Using them became "cheating" only for the last year or two that he may have used them, and retroactively in people's minds for the previous years.  Gaylord Perry won over 300 games and put himself in the Hall of Fame throwing a spit ball which was illegal his entire career.  Is anyone advocating that we should kick him out?  What about the Babe and his corked bat?  After all, we don't "know" how many home runs he hit using corked bats.  Are we going to put an asterisk next to the statistical achievements of ALL athletes suspected of or known to have used performance enhancing drugs?  Do it for one and you'd better do it for them all.

My personal feelings toward Barry Bonds are luke warm at best, but much of the criticism directed at him over breaking the record is unwarranted.  If people are intellectually honest, they should recognize that much of the criticism is not based on a serious analysis of the role that steroids may have played in his achievement. 

I have no opinion of Bonds as a person. I could care less if he beats his wife.

He cheated his way to a record and has sullied the game of baseball in the process.

The record is still his

Mattloch said it best above.

I've seen you in a couple of blogs with your unrelenting support of Bonds. Makes me wonder what dog you have in the race.

 BTW, this is my opinion (and others) and we are entitled to it. You won't succeed in beating us down for it.

If A-Rod stays healthy, in the future he will make Bonds a footnote.

This means he was able to hit the ball farther

Hitting the ball farther means more home runs.

How many of those hit balls would have ended up as singles and doubles without the steroids?

I am by no means a sports fan, but TSM brings up a valid point.  Are a disproportionate number of Bonds' hits homers, or does he show a larger number of hits in general?  If the former, I'd suspect the steroids had an effect; if the latter, innate abilities.

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I *KNOW* someone would have that stat.

All I have to say is GO A-ROD.  This whole argument will be over when Barry "Syringe Happy' Bonds no longer holds the record, although it won't probably happen until 2012-2013. 

p.s. To the supporters of Bonds, your right it takes a lot more than strength to hit homers consistently.  Strength is not the only benefit of steroids, how about recovery time.  There is NO WAY Bonds would have been able to play as long as he has without the juice.  In my opinion it doesn't matter if the drugs were technically legal.  Anyone who has to inject, rub cream, or take pills to make it to the next level or become a superstar are cheaters.  This includes every position in every sport.

For his part, Murphy could document Bonds' physical changes via the changes in his uniform size. Since joining the Giants, Bonds had gone from a size 42 to a size 52 jersey; from size 10 ½ to size 13 cleats; and from a size 7 1/8 to size 7 ¼ cap, even though he had taken to shaving his head. The changes in his foot and head size were of special interest: medical experts said overuse of Human Growth Hormone could cause an adult's extremities to begin growing, aping the symptoms of the glandular disorder acromegly.

What do you think? Did he grow that much at 35 years old from "innate abilities"?

I don't blame Barry for what he did. So did McGuire, Sosa, Giambi etc etc etc.

The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of baseball. In their anxiousness to bring fan attendance up, they simply looked the other way. There should have been mandatory testing from the very beginning of the issue. Records are only a side issue. What about the marginal player that felt compelled to take steroids just to keep their jobs? What is going to happen to these guys when they reach their late 50s and 60s?

It was criminal for baseball to allow this environment that hurts the game but more importantly puts player health at risk.

As for Barry, he was a hall of famer even if he didn't take steroids. But in my book, he's no Hank Aaron. Aaron did his thing without watered down pitching, lowered pitching mounds, livelier balls, and steroids. As for pitchers on steroids, the only benefit they derive is quicker healing. It doesn't make them throw a 100 miles an hour when they could only manage 91 before. 

I guess what I'm asking is whether the increase in strength caused the record in-and-of itself, or whether it intensified innate abilities:  Is he a better hitter than others, or does he just hit harder than others?

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If his feet went from a 10.5 to a 13 he was either suffering from acromegaly (easily diagnosed) or HGH, I agree.

Those of you obsessed with the steroid issue are entitled to your opinions. I am not trying to change anyone's mind.  But I rest my case.  No one yet has addressed any of the related factors I mentioned.  Too many people are solely focused on steroids.  Is this because no one else really knows much about the game?

That and I like the Giants.

And there's your dog.

 If he really was cheating, wouldn't Bud Selig have done something about it?

Bud Selig, the baseball team owner who has his own personal stake and has prevented tougher testing rules to be instituted?

Selig is the reason Congress is considering taking action.

theColorNine-

Barry would have been done by 2004 if he hadn't taken steroids.  His body was already starting to deteriorate and steroids help the body heal faster.  Just because steroids were not technically illegal doesn't mean that Bonds and every other athlete that takes them are not sleazy criminals.  Bonds is the poster child for what not to be for the next generation, juiced, mean, and only in it for himself.  This is not what team sports are all about.  I guess only time will tell, but I know I won't shed a tear when he dies in about 10-15 years because he has abused his body for so long.  Hopefully he lives long enough to see his juiced record rightfully taken by the clean A-ROD. 

I won't shed a tear when he dies in about 10-15 years because he has abused his body for so long

I was just talking to someone who mentioned this. He's an older guy and had to take steroids to help heal a torn ligament and talked to his doctor about Bonds. The doctor said that based upon the rapid increase in size Bonds experienced at a later age, the steroids would have weakened his heart significantly. The doctor told him Bonds' heart had a good chance of failing by the time he hits his early 50s even if Bonds had stopped taking them now.

what are you getting at here?

You said you're a Giants fan, which means you have a vested interest (or a dog in the race) in Bonds.

In other words, you have a bias.

The increased strength you derive is only one aspect. Bonds already had power, and the power he gained, if that were the only criteria, would account for only a few more homeruns(330 footers are now 340 ft). That would only be a handful. But steroid's 'benefits' are not just increased power. Athletes get over injuries much faster, and.....although you have to have the hand eye coordination in the first place, steroid use actually quickens your wrists and forearms. That is why Bonds can crowd the plate, and is able to wait longer to see the pitch and react.

Personally I don't like Bonds, as a person, but there is no doubt he is a Hall of Famer regardless of the steroids. Baseball is as guilty as Vince McMahon as far as the use of steroids. Now they are reaping what they sowed. But ultimately, when these guys start dropping like flies in a decade, the tragedy of greed will really be seen. I hope it was worth it Barry.

oh and they will drop for the roid use, unfortunate to many young people (guys) are now seeing roid as the way to go to bulk up. Some of the college guys that work out at my gym, talk openly about juicing.

I know I have been tempted since it is difficult for me to add muscle, I can gain strength and lean up, but bulk and building bigger muscle is very difficult. I decide a long time ago..that roids were not for me, since I didnt want to endure the side affects.

thetruthhurts - No one knows when Bonds would have, or would have had to, quit baseball.  Throwing that out is a red herring.

I do not condone the use of steroids, for any reason other than a legitimate medical one.  I believe the athletes who have used them over the years will pay the price later in their lives, and I certainly don't like the message that their using them sends to our youth.

Nevertheless, people obsessed with the steroid issue are, IMHO, being narrow in their analysis of how Bonds came to hit so many home runs.

I never felt tempted to use steroids, and you need only go to factor #1 of the many reasons not to, that made me pass. Although it certainly will bulk you up, there are two muscles that get the opposite effect....to me the most important muscles....your heart.....and your love muscle (not necessarily listed in order of importance).

I like clean sports such as cycling.

Good one anglo1, lol.

posted by thetruthhurts on Aug 8, 2007 at 11:22 AM:  "Just because steroids were not technically illegal doesn't mean that Bonds and every other athlete that takes them are not sleazy criminals."

If they "were not technically illegal" (your words), what was the criminal activity?

Are you also saying that anyone who does take steroids is a "sleazy criminal?" 

 If they "were not technically illegal" (your words)

He's wrong, they are technically illegal. See the DOJ cite below.

Are you also saying that anyone who does take steroids is a "sleazy criminal?" 

Since steroids are illegal without a legitimate physician's prescription, it stands to reason people who take steroids without one is a criminal.

Is abusing steroids illegal?

Yes, it is illegal to use steroids without a valid prescription or to distribute them. Steroids are Schedule III substances under the Controlled Substances Act. Schedule III drugs, which have a legitimate medical function, may lead to moderate to low physical dependence or high psychological dependence.

http://www.usdoj.gov/ndic/p...

Like I said, he's one of the greatest ever. But if you don't have a problem with his alleged use of steroids, then you have to ask yourself, did you have a problem with Ben Johnson when he almost stole the gold medal outta Lewis' grip. And were you okay when the East German women's Olympic team won medals with athletes who looked like this?...........