I think we bit off more than we could chew, but things are getting a bit better, and this is not the time for troops to come...

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Dr BLT copyright 2007

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Things are pretty bad over there, even with the recent gains.  They are not as bad as the Democrats say, but not as good as the Bush supporters suggest either.  Above all, whether you accept the mission or not, we must continue to support the military. 

 

 

Bad choice to go to Iraq, bad choice to leave them to rot now that the Dunce in Chief has given us that responsibility.

We're going to eventually have to let the Iraqis do whatever it takes to put down the civil war and let us just help them from the air.  Georgey really helped out with the Al Queda recruiting center by adding the Iraqi Division. It was ridiculous to go into Iraq instead of  cleaning up the Bin Laden mess. It's just what Bin Laden wanted.

I'll be glad when the Dunce goes back to pretending to be a ranch hand in Crawford and leave the big decisions to guys who can get into triple digits on the IQ scale. But....I'm sure when the war is passed on to the new democratic President, then it will be his/her fault for not 'staying the course'.

This war has been a travesty from the start. If you lived in a vacuum and heard the Bush speech last night you might have thought that progress was coming, although very slow progress. Since everyone outside of the White House does not live  in a vacuum bubble  surrounded by sycophants  we know that absolutely no progress  has been made in more than four years of effort. And no progress is on the horizon. Our losses now are worse than  they have ever been.  We created this mess, and there is no easy solution  to such deplorable foreign policy gaffes that this Administration has made and continues to make.

When Bush took office he backed away from  the many years of diplomacy  the United States had engaged in to try and settle  the old Israeli -Palestinian conflict and ignored the region. The conflict between the Palestinians and Israelis escalated due to our neglect, and only after the despicable attack by Saudi nationals did he engage in the Middle East. He made war plans for Iraq while a true coalition went into Afghanistan. We all know the long spin of lies regarding WMDs, of Iraq involvement with Al-Qaeda and democracy building as the fictitious reasons Bush has pushed the conflict along.

We have watched twenty years of rebuilding in Lebanon  go for naught as we allowed Israel to bomb away and get mired in a no win situation much like our own misadventure in Iraq that simply provoked an already agitated Muslim community to the brink of all out war. There is still such saber rattling by hawks in this country to push for an all out assault on Iran, without looking at potential conflicts that would jeopardize our already shaky relationships with China and Russia. We attack Iran and the Russian and Chinese response would not be a friendly one. There are already cracks in the EU with Germany now backing off the Iran sanction train.

My humble view is that we have the worst person in charge of our nation at the worst possible time who has threatened world stability for dreams of oil. We need to impeach Bush immediately.  

Impeach Bush and bring the troops home now to secure our own borders. But with the corporations owning our government it is only wishful thinking on my part.

Good grief! I can't believe there are still people out there who think Bush would or could be impeached. You can't impeach a president just because you dislike and disagree with his policies. I also can't believe there are still people out there who think that the next administration will just stop our action and bring the troops home. It's not going to happen and any politician or politically astute individual realizes that. Does the war suck? Yes, it does. Is it necessary? Yes, it is. The war in Iraq is over. It was over in 2003 when we decimated their military and deposed their tyrannical regime. Saddam and his sons are dead as are many of his top hands and the rest are either in custody or in exile. That is a good thing. We are trying to help the Iraqi's develop and and train their own security force and military as we continue the fight against terrorism, which, like a ball of mercury, will scatter whnever we seem to have it under our thumb. We can't help it if the Iraqi's are proving the point that people like me have been making for twenty years. The Arabs are incapable of doing anything progressive to help themselves because they spend as much time trying to kill each other as they do trying to kill their enemies, who seem to be the rest of the world in general once all the sects are taken into consideration. No matter who tries to do waht over there, one of the other sects wants to kill them for it. It will make the war on terror an indefinite one, but I'd still rather fight it there than here. So stop whining about Bush and try and focus on the real problem. TERRORISM! It's NOT going to go away just because we come home. Wake up.

True, disagreeing with policy is not an impeachable offense Mark. Lying to the American people about why we are going in there is. And I don't mean lying about a blow job, I mean lying that has killed twice as many Americans as the SAUDI terrorists did on 911.

Iraq wasn't sponsoring terror, Iran was/is. Sure Saddam was an arshole, pick a 100 more spots on the globe that are run by arsholes. How about North Korea? They HAVE nukes. They HAVE missles.  Kim Jong- Il is much more dangerous and evil than Saddam could ever dream of.

This was Iraq's most dangerous weapon.....

Bin Laden played Bush so well it's as if he had help from an FBI psychological profiler.

Having said that, I don't want Bush impeached...it'll only lead to more polarization........I just want his term to end.

motopoet, thanks for offering some common sense.  Yes, war is hell.  Yes, the selling of the war went way wrong.  But we are there, and democracy now has a least a small chance of flourishing in the region.  So let's show our troops our full support.  You don't like the mission?  Fine, but don't let up in your show of support for the military. 

Motopoet, you are wrong. The war in Iraq is not necessary, unless you're part of the grand oil empire and war service profiteer industry. If the war was over in 2003 why does General Petraeus say we're going to be in Iraq for at least another decade? Arabs are fully capable of governing their own affairs, they simply get outraged when we decide what would be good for them, replace their leaders and blow their country to bits. You might want to review a little history  of our interventions in the area over the past sixty some years to understand the Arab mind set on our current occupation.

Of course, arguing with you here is just another act of futility. No matter what evidence presented regarding the lack of WMDs, the lack of Iraq's involvement with 9/11 and the absence of any complicity with Al-Qaeda  you remain convinced  that our President has acted in good faith. I  do not subscribe to that view point. Bush needs to go immediately.

I won't bore you with the other abuses of power his Administration has committed in the name of protecting us poor distracted and too busy shopping Americans while continuing to drop the ball on Al Qaeda. It is enough to note that anyone who inherited a multiple trillion dollar surplus and turned it into the worst budget deficit in history should be fired for incompetence.

Mloto, "The war was over in  2003"  true, do you remember why it was over?  Sadam's   Republican Troops,  his Elite force, trained  to defend his country,   dropped thier weapons and ran !  An then,  Mission  Accomplished..Also, I want to bring this up again. The  Russians  tried to bring  the  Afghans to  thier knees  for  8 yrs.  As far asfighting  them over thier, instead of  here,  they are already here..Maybe you didn't see the news the other day when WE arrested some men in Florida,,who had plans to blow up an air base.

Good point. If the Iraqis were so dangerous, why did it take us 30 minutes to clean 'em up. If they HAD weapons of mass destruction, do you think Saddam held them back because of his humanity?

The point now that Mark makes, is that we're already in up to our necks. We made this mess, and we have some obligation to the Iraqi condition. I agree to a certain point. However, any 1st year history student knows that you cannot forcefeed an idealogy on someone unless you are completely ruthless. Ruthless is not something Americans want to be described as.

But, even though we now have that obligation, do any of you really think that going into Iraq was a good idea to begin with? Do any of you think that we can actually quell a civil and tribal war? I'm not so quick to jump on General Patreus, he has a boss and has to play by the bosse's rules. It's not his fault we got caught up in this quagmire. In fact I think he is quite capable. Even the Viet Nam war, which most people consider a failure, had more validity than this one. We were trying to quell the spread of communism. It may seem that going into Iraq was for the purpose of quelling terrorism, but Saddam could give two hoots about Fanatical Muslim Idealogy. It wasn't about Allah, it was about him. We disrupted one of the few countries that WASN'T run by Mullahs.

I completely support our troops. But supporting the troops is entirely different than drinking the Bush administration Kool Aid about changing the philosophy of the oldest culture in the world by way of military intervention.

OH GOD! Another war for oil conspiracy theorist? If this was about oil then why is it so expensive? Where is all the Iraqi oil? It's not coming here! If you knew anything at all about the oil business you would know that the largest portion of our imports do NOT come from the Arabs, but Canada, Mexico and South America. The Saudi's send us a goodly amount, but as a whole, the Arabs lagging.Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

  As far as lying to anyone about anything, that is something that could not be proven in the "who knew what when" debacle as Dubya acted on the same information everyone else(the libs calling for Saddams head included) had at the time. Was he premature in the attack? Yes, I think so because the war on terror would have led there eventually anyway, we would have just lost more soldiers to real action as well as the many hundreds who would have undoubtedly died in accidents that go along with logistics of such an effort(accidents claimed over 10,000 lives in WWII) as we marched across the northern mountains into Iraq and we'd still be in the same position we are now but Saddam would have had the opportunity to perpetuate his genocidal way for another few years.

I agree that the blow job deal was blown(pardon the pun)out of proportion, but lying is lying no matter who you are or what it's about, not that any man in a similar situation won't lie his butt off.

I also agree that you can't force an ideology, morality or government on anyone(but the libs STILL try to force all theirs on me!)and I don't know if democracy as we know it can truly exist in such backwards(as WE see it)societies as many of those in the mid-east, but the people of Iraq should still be allowed to get a taste of true freedom and see if they like it and think it's worth fighting for, and we are giving them that opportunity. What they do with it is up to them and I agree that we shouldn't stick around forever fighting their battles.

ANYONE who got the idea that I don't support the war and the troops has not been reading my stuff very long or has misread it entirely. I actually think we should stop pussyfooting around and go fight it like it is war and stop treating it like it's a media event created to make pollsters wealthy. Let's go do what we know we can do and let the chips fall where they may. Like they say.."It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission"..I jest, of course about just doing it like that, but it IS what needs to be done.

It really doesn't matter what I think about the war in Iraq..THEY are already making plans on how to control the airspace over Iran..do you really think that there is a quick fix in the Middle East...mark my words..the DRAFT will be coming next and THESE politician's kids better lead the way--and I don't mean to Canada either

Ling~ I believe your right.  It doesn't matter what we think, the powers to be have their course mapped out and it forged with our children's backs and their blood.  Support our troops is a forgone conclusion~ bet you kiss babies, salute the flag and love your Mom too... to decry war does not make you a troop hater~  quite the contrary.  I am so worried about what we are missing because we spend so much time hating Clinton and Bush... our national security is at risk.

Mark, it *IS* a war for oil.  What makes you think ordinary citizens would get a cut of the deal?  The fact that we were *PROMISED* we would?   Every speech Shrub makes, he mentions the "oil sharing agreement" not yet having been signed.  It'll be OK with him if we have another two thousand casualties, so long as that document gets passed.

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There is some truth to responsibility for the mess.  I propose that George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney be measured for uniforms and sent over to take personal responsibility on the front lines.

The Iraq War - We won already, why are we still there?

Do you remember the days of Mutual Assured Destruction? The idea of course being that if you attack us with nukes we do the same and we both lose - the game is not one you can win.

Fast forward to the Iraq war. Our goal was to get Saddam out of power and find/destroy his weapons of mass destruction before he could use them on us.

Our troops rushed in, kicked butt, got Saddam, and hunted for WMD's. Done. And I may say as well that we did it very well.

And yet....We are still there. I suppose the worry is if we leave now it will all collapse and some new idiot will take over. And that brings me back to MAD.

A simple message here could do the trick. Leave now and on the way out drop thousands of papers declaring simply "If you come into power and do the same things as before, we will be back and you will find yourself in the hangman's noose like Saddam did".

That is to say - it's your country and now it is up to you to run it and place nice with others, or you will again have AD - assured destruction.

BUT - that is not what we did. Why? We stayed on, our troops who busted a** are still there as cannon fodder.

Are we afraid there will be another Saddam taking control there? See above. Are we afraid Iran may rush in? If so, then they too could fall prey to a US strike (not to mention other nations getting involved at that point).

The GOAL was to protect the US - and everyone from Clinton/Gore to Bush and other countries felt Saddam had WMD's and was a threat. We removed the threat, we should leave. If Al Qaeda moves in and takes control and consolidates power - well, that would give us a much easier target then IED's to focus our attacks on.

Eventually, they might get the message.

Bush has abandoned the principles of those much wiser before him - let your enemy know that they will be destroyed, don't be a baby sitter. Go in, take them out, and offer help as needed in rebuilding and such. Our troops are trained to kill the enemy and stop them from attacking us - they did their damned job. Bring them home and let the Iraqi people deal with their own country.

If you want a baby sitter, call the UN. If you want the best trained military on the planet to come in and remove a threat, call us.

Our troops need to come home now and not be sitting there as target practice.

We won. And yet now, we have lost. Our troops kill and destroy, that is their damned job. It is not their job to sit around building schools and palaces we call embassies.

You, Mr. President, have tossed them into a role they were not designed for and they are dying because you have no real plan. Get them out now, and if the threat comes back - fire up the tomahawks and bombers.

Get them out now, and if the threat comes back - fire up the tomahawks and bombers.

Yup, that strategy worked pretty well.  How many of our embassies, warships, and other installations were hit when Clinton was in office slinging cruise missiles, amoung other things?? Too damn many.  Blowing up asprin factories is not a deterent...

Why isn't the war over? Here's why...

http://articles.moneycentra...

Funny, Coultergeist thinks the same thing. The thing we need to do to end this economic downturn caused by the sub-prime lending market is to "bomb Iran".

PS none: Could you fix your cut-and-paste job? It completely screws up TBC's page formatting.

Thanks.

And why are we in Iraq in the 1st place?