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jbaldwin - > Musements -> Do we need two Wal-Marts?
Do we need two Wal-Marts?
I don't have a position one way or another on the City Council's approval of two Wal-Mart Supercenters in southern Bakersfield.

My question is, do we need TWO of them within 4 1/2 miles of each other? (I Google mapped it to get the distance between them: Gosford & Pacheco and Panama & Hwy 99.)

Do we, really need two that close together?
Posted in these Groups:
Topics: Wal-Mart, bakersfield
posted by jbaldwin on Thursday, November 29, 2007 at 08:51 AM
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1

posted by Baylee on Nov 29, 2007 at 08:59 AM
The new one is going to be a SUPER Walmart, I say yes, yes, yes.
posted by johnburnssucks on Nov 29, 2007 at 09:12 AM

It depends on who shops at each particular WalMart location. In San Diego, there were WalMarts in the National City and Chula Vista areas that I never went back to due to the vermin who shopped there; they'd let their kids run wild, block aisles with their carts for who knows how long while they loudly jabbered back and forth about whatever. They were not oblivious to their rude behavior, they just didn't give a damn.

There was a WalMart in the Murphy Canyon area that was a joy to shop at; decent, responsible, courteous people who were raised to know right from wrong. Perhaps one of the WalMart locations that you speak of is often filled with two-legged garbage, so the courteous shoppers choose to frequent the other one.

posted by robbwillis on Nov 29, 2007 at 09:23 AM
If the first Wal-Mart hasn't completely wiped-out the local Mom-and-Pop businesses, another one ought to finish off those little buggers.
posted by randomfactor on Nov 29, 2007 at 09:35 AM

I actually walked through a Wal-Mart the other day.   Nope, still nothing there worth my soul.

.

Spam Code DZ WMD--spins you around until your mass is distracted.

posted by witbee on Nov 29, 2007 at 09:58 AM
I used to go to the Super Walmart in Laramie, WY. It was clean, the workers courteous, the shoppers sedate and polite. The Walmarts out here are the exact opposite. I only go there when I absolutely have to. And judging by how busy they are, even at 10:00am on a Tuesday, there should be plenty of customers to spread around.
posted by ilovedenverco on Nov 29, 2007 at 10:28 AM
I use to live in Bakersfield and am now in Denver. I moved out of Bakersfield almost four years ago, when there was  first talk of having a super Walmart.  We have Super Walmarts everywhere in metro Denver, and there are still the smaller stores, those places still thrive. When Walmart has better prices, I shop there, if not I go elsewhere. Its not like it is going to be the end of the world if there is a super Walmart in Bakersfield, but most will probably just disagree because they don't want any type of change. I guess you just won't know what you are missing out on.
posted by Lingtaowoo on Nov 29, 2007 at 10:33 AM
Went to the one up at East Hills Mall recently..they cleaned it up from the last time I was there..( about three years ago )..we was in the neighborhood and had to pick up a few things...it was mid-morning so almost everyone was either in school or at work...but there was still those that left their shopping carts in the middle of the isle and when we went around them,they give that attitude look...in any language...thank goodness we don't make it a habit to go there...but yes,it all depends WHICH Wal-Mart you shop at....
posted by adampayne on Nov 29, 2007 at 10:36 AM
My guess is that the one on White Lane gets closed up fairly soon after the Panama Lane Superstore opens. The reality of the current retail experience throughout the country, apart from the strictly major cities, is that WalMart, Target and the salvage knock-off stores are it for the vast majority of American shoppers.  It is clear that most of the nation cannot afford to shop at specialty outlets that rely on customer service and niche goods at higher prices.

I'm assuming your question was rhetorical, since it is very obvious the city does not need anther big-box Chinese import goods shopping locale. The current state of economic affairs indicates that as WalMart and Target have grown, wages, benefits and living standards have dropped throughout the nation. No one working for these big box mausoleums,  other than the very few management positions inside, can make enough money to do anything more than scratch out a subsistence living today.

As one of the shrinking nations in the world who actually have labor laws that are still enforced, and a few environmental conditions that must be met, the US sees workers from all over the world viewing this place as still very attractive. Giant companies that manufacture products have sought out the developing world to provide them with an inexhaustible stream of labor that work for very little amid appalling conditions. The lowest possible price has meant that conglomerates like Mattel and Hasbro in the toy world looked the other way to pad their bottom line while their products violated every safety rule in America. Who drove the lowest price possible concept? WalMart. And who followed them? Every company that puts products in their aisles and every shopper who  ever made a purchase there. 

It is no secret that much of the chocolate sold in America comes from farming operations in Latin America and Africa where slave labor is the norm. Does the average American consumer care one bit? Does the average American consumer even have a clue what transpires in the rest of the world that does not involve some American military action? 


posted by CALLMEMSTRACY on Nov 29, 2007 at 11:24 AM

I am all for 2 Super Walmarts in Bakersfield when you consider the growth of Bakersfield.

posted by jfrancais on Nov 29, 2007 at 11:53 AM

Bakersfield needs more Wal-Marts. It's a city that can actually support an influx of them. It's not like Bakersfield is losing the mom and pops or it's small town identity due to Wal-Mart.

posted by adampayne on Nov 29, 2007 at 12:19 PM
jfrancais, you're right about Bakersfield being able to "support an influx of them."  Since the average wages here in Bakersfield are  so far below the average wages for the state, WalMart and their wannabes are all people can afford.  I'm thrilled to see yet another discount box-store opening next to Albertson's  on Mount Vernon  sometime soon.  Just not enough cheap goods at  the Dollar Store across the street and less than a mile from the WalMart off Mall View Road for the neighborhood. Nothing says depression stronger than a town full of depression based stores.
posted by mildmannered1 on Nov 29, 2007 at 12:36 PM
No, we don't.  Especially on Gosford.
posted by nooneisabovethelaw on Nov 29, 2007 at 01:51 PM

Various reasons are cited above, and there is more than a little truth in all. I'd also submit our economy is not only so dependent upon consumerism as to need to keep these afloat, but Prop. 13 has also forced municipalities to look increasingly to sales tax revenue as the primary funding mechanism for everything. We've made our bed, folks.

To the point, though: I'd rather have a Super Target. Though if I understand correctly, that's planned to go in within a half mile of the Gosford location. I won't shop at Wal-Mart of any flavor, period, even if it will be within a relatively short walk from my house. Target, yes. Wal-Mart...nope.

 

posted by citybeat on Nov 29, 2007 at 03:05 PM
AdamPayne: You're right, the plan (as outlined by a Wal-Mart manager last night) is to close the White Lane Wal-Mart and transfer the employees to the Panama Super Wal-Mart (which is like a regular Wal-Mart, but with sour cream and guacamole).

James Geluso

(Spam code: JELOS. So close!)
posted by OldBlue56 on Nov 29, 2007 at 03:39 PM
Look at what the neighborhoods look like south of Wilson Rd. to Taft Hwy, and east of Stine Rd. to Cottonwood Rd.. Not exactly the nicest parts of town to live in. These are older, blighted, lower income areas. Even the new construction is low cost starter homes. These Wal-Marts should do just fine.
posted by Bluesheets on Nov 29, 2007 at 03:52 PM

Everyone who is anyone knows that Wal-Mart White Lane caters to tweekers and skuzzies, why shouldn’t they move to a more suitable area that serves all the people and move the playing field.

 

posted by thetruthhurts on Nov 29, 2007 at 03:55 PM
I couldn't care less if there are 2 or for that matter 20 WMs in the southwest.  It is the worst store I have ever been to.  Not only are the workers unfriendly but half of them look like they walked straight out the crack houses.  Most of the shoppers there are no better than the workers either.  In my opinion I would rather go get a root canal with no insurance than shop at these stores.  I'm sorry but I am happy to pay a whopping 15 cents more for my toothpaste at target, at least their workers are a little friendly and you don't get ran over by shoppers that don't even understand the meaning of being courteous.  Oh and I don't care if there in the southwest because I live nowhere near there nor northwest.  Keep WM out of the California Ave area and I will be a happy man.
posted by dgrealish on Nov 29, 2007 at 03:57 PM
Everyone who is anyone knows that when ever a new Wal-Mart opens, the entire population shifts leaving the old Wal-Mart empty and therefore more desirable to those with any sense.
posted by Baylee on Nov 29, 2007 at 04:06 PM
Well I have never been catered to at any Walmart I have been to so I guess that leaves me out of the tweekers  and skuzzies catagory.
posted by ghostriter on Nov 29, 2007 at 04:45 PM

Oh yeah, more WalMart...the US definitely needs more places for the Chinese to sell their cheap crap. And Bakersfield absoutely is lacking rotten neighborhoods, and we need WalMart to create more areas where our gangs, drug dealers and criminals can thrive.

I would not walk into a WalMart to use the bathroom.

posted by Baylee on Nov 29, 2007 at 05:16 PM
Yeah because we know that gangs,drug dealers and criminals would never hang out at the malls where a Macy's, Gottchalks or  JC Penney's is located.
posted by Baylee on Nov 29, 2007 at 05:22 PM
By the way, you might be surprised how many people who can afford to shop at places other than walmart , are drug dealers and criminals. You know there is more to those "Holiday Parties" given by those good citzens living on the edges of golf courses than you know , you can get more than cheese and crackers on a plate.; - }
posted by mattloch on Nov 29, 2007 at 05:48 PM
adam: "My guess is that the one on White Lane gets closed up fairly soon after the Panama Lane Superstore opens. "

You didn't have to guess that. They put it in black and white in their EIR. Which is why the judge kicked it back the first time, because they didn't do an analysis on the "urban blight " caused by a huge empty box in the White Lane shopping center (and surrounding neighborhood). It has taken, what, over a deceade for the empty box (old Builders Square) on Ming Avenue to be rebuilt? And the old Costco is still sitting empty...... And bets on how long it'll take for something to happen to the White Lane Wal-Mart? Over-under is at 15 years...
posted by jfrancais on Nov 29, 2007 at 07:27 PM
Does anyone remember when there was a waterpark/miniature golf course on White LN where Wal-Mart currently is located?
posted by NancyII on Nov 29, 2007 at 07:50 PM

To all the folks who say they won't set foot in the door of a Walmart I say  THANK YOU..you make the aisles less crowded and my checkout faster.  Whooohoooo.  I wish more people hated saving money  Walmart that way.  HEH.

Signed  ....just another skuzzie tweeker. 

posted by jfrancais on Nov 29, 2007 at 08:05 PM
When I lived in the midwest, I found the employees to be much nicer, the prices cheaper, and the stores not as crowded. I don't frequent the one on WHite Lane because the service is bad and the prices don't justify the hassle. There is one out here close to Fresno (Sanger) that I go to. It's not as crowded and the service is pretty good by CA standards.
posted by OldBlue56 on Nov 29, 2007 at 09:36 PM
Yes jfrancais, the one with the large maze for people to stumble through. The place was owned by a former city council member. We used to do undercover busts in their all the time for the little sheet heads selling drugs.
posted by RoyTullis on Nov 29, 2007 at 09:48 PM
As far as Chinese goods at Walmart, you will find much of the merchandise sold in your favorite store is from China or some other place overseas. I bought a shoulder patch  of an American flag with USA under it for a friends Martial Arts jacket last week, looked on the back and it said "Made in China".
posted by NancyII on Nov 29, 2007 at 10:52 PM

Being an ex WM employee (in cosmetics) I've gotta say that your kindness,polite,customer service attitude meter  runs a little lean after the umpteenth bottle of not spilled but dumped makeup, the lipsticks tried on wrists, bottles and containers knocked over by children with mothers too busy tearning into packages to watch the little darlings and demands for products not in stock as if we deliberately hid them.    What is it about sanitary napkins that makes people have to rip one open with another sitting right beside it also ripped open?  Why is it ok for children to tear open toy packages and play with the toys before throwing them on the floor?   Walmart associates are CONSTANTLY picking up, straightening, cleaning up spills and trash while shoppers are oblivious to what their children are doing.  Oh wait..that wasn't a child who dumped over a 42 oz McDonalds coke and walked off without telling anyone.  That wasn't a child who dropped a bottle of nail polish and walked away from the broken mess while other people ran their cart over it.

Try 8 hours of that sort of thing and see just how polite you are.  Try smiling until your cheeks hurt at some snotty person telling you to clean up the mess because that's what YOU get paid for.

And before people start trashing the trashy ones..take a good look around...a lot of people with money shop there too.

Oh yeah..and while you're at it..take a run down Targets aisles and compare products.  You'll find both places carry about the same items..and a huge amount of the same brands.  Department managers used to go out comp shopping to make sure like items were pennies lower than Target.  Guess what..Target did the same thing.  Cheap shoddy products?  Take a look at Vons cleaning products and paper goods.  Compare Toys R Us with WM's toys..same brands, different prices.  The clothes are chaper and some cheaply made but that's not all WM sells. 

Shop Where you like.  Spend what you like...but stop criticizing those of us who can't afford to buy a Kitchen Aid mixer at Macys but may be able to afford the same one at WM.  And there are those of us who don't see a purpose in throwing money away just to have the prestige of a Macy's name on our receipt.  If you pick your times to shop you won't even have to wait in line.  I was there yesterday at around noon and there were cashiers stading on the action alley line waiting for customers.

The anti WM mania is absolutely crazy.  And irrational.  Amazing..simply amazing.

posted by NancyII on Nov 29, 2007 at 10:55 PM
A small comment on the mentality of some here.  It's nonono on a super center that will serve thousands but people clamor for trendy places like PF Changs.  What was it again about local businesses being hurt by out of town chains?
posted by allRED on Nov 30, 2007 at 06:11 AM

people clamor for trendy places like PF Changs.  What was it again about local businesses being hurt by out of town chains?

Nancy being screwed with a high profile name eases the pain with most.

My wife go,s to the major stores @ least once a week and she only buys when the price drops    but     the trouble I see with her not the half off thing    but      the things she has to buy to match.      Save $ 50..00 and spend $ 100.00 to match.

Ron.

posted by NancyII on Nov 30, 2007 at 07:06 AM
Heh Ron.  I know what you mean.   It's like the folks who say..no I didn't need it but look at the money I saved.  lol..cracks me up.
posted by Baylee on Nov 30, 2007 at 08:08 AM
Nancy - I always chuckle at the grocery store when I spend say $200.00 and the clerk says you just saved $10.05 by shopping with us, and then they circle it on the bottom of the receipt. I always think to myself WHOO HOO!!!! lol
posted by adampayne on Nov 30, 2007 at 09:05 AM
Nancy, you are more than entitled to your opinions on the value WalMart has brought to America and the world. It is without question the company that now epitomizes what the US is all about today. It is by far the largest company in the world, even though Exxon has surpassed WalMart's revenues during these Bush years. I can think of no other company, ever, so litigated against for so many  infractions  and discriminatory practices  as WalMart. I can think of no other retail company, ever, that  hundreds of municipalities  fought against so hard to prevent  openings of stores, and not just in America, but around the world.

Today, as you mention, Target is not that much different than WalMart in selection of products. Target stores are usually much cleaner than WalMart stores, and store personnel have historically had much better benefit packages than WalMart employees. Target charity giving has also been a significantly higher percentage than WalMart's charitable donations over the years.

But WalMart has been the undisputed king of retail for over twenty years now, becoming a giant industry unto itself and their leadership role has guided and dictated much of what the smaller companies  have had to do to remain in business. This has meant  eliminating many full-time positions with benefits in favor of multitudes of part-time employees that  cannot receive benefits. This has meant  contracting out for maintenance and janitorial workers instead of keeping those people as employees, and contracts only to those offering the very lowest cost by employing undocumented laborers.  WalMart has been the  most outspoken and forceful opponent of  organized labor in the world, spending huge sums on marketing and legal strategies to prevent collective bargaining from taking hold in their chain. 

Twenty years ago everyone had reasonable health insurance coverage in this country, and businesses had to offer benefit packages that afforded good insurance, retirement and vacation as a way to maintain a quality staff. That simply is not the case at most companies today if there is no union representation to fight for workers rights. You can thank WalMart for that.

WalMart, without question, has been the leader driving the outsourcing of manufactured products to overseas plants. If you're down for all the snowball effect that this move has produced with unsafe and toxic elements in your food, toys and hygiene products more power to you.  But the outrage many of us in this country feel, see and continue to document in regards to this unfair-practices-conglomerate  is certainly  not  irrational, nor crazy. Those who deny the harm done in the name of the lowest price possible are the crazy people.
posted by jbaldwin on Nov 30, 2007 at 09:06 AM
Yes, that psychology always makes me so satisfied when I shop. I always aim to save 20 -25 percent on my total — so if my budget is $50, I'll aim for $40 w/those discounts, or $40 to $30. I love it.
posted by NancyII on Dec 1, 2007 at 09:58 PM

Adam..you may be able to afford to be high minded when it comes to shopping for a family..but there are millions who cannot.  As for this statement "Twenty years ago everyone had reasonable health insurance coverage in this country, and businesses had to offer benefit packages that afforded good insurance, retirement and vacation as a way to maintain a quality staff"  I'll have to disagree with you once again.  Until I went to work at WM I never had a single company offer me a paid vacation, personal leave time, or sick pay let alone put money in a 401K plan that they cashed out for me when I quit.  I never paid a dime into it.  I never had a company give me a bonus of almost 900 dollars two years running either.  Granted, a lot of those benefits have gone by the wayside as WM adopted the long standing "McDonalds" policy of hiring most people on a part time basis to avoid paying benefits.    I'm also now told that a local store has gotten rid of a lot of their long term full time workers and my guess is that the current manager is trying to increase the bottom line at the workers expense.  The previous manager always contributed to local charities and was always coming up with ways to help  the community.

Pointing out a companies good points isn't necessarily supporting or defending a company.  I've stated before that I can't speak to other stores in other areas as to WM's good or bad points, I can only share MY experience with you folks.

Outsourcing has been going on for as long as I can remember so WM hardly lead the parade in that area.  Certain car parts, tools, and clothing have always (in my memory) been made in Japan, India or China...it's nothing new..just more prevelent.

Target is cleaner?  Ever wonder why that is?  Ever push a cart through Targets aisles during Christmas?   I've been there when you could shoot a cannon down the center of the store and not hit anyone.  (slight exageration for a visual)  When you have masses of people crowding a store, and you have the gimme complex going on, you're going to have people trash the store.  If you go to Macy's or one of the more expensive stores you won't find the clutter partly because fewer people can offord to shop there.  I was in Sugardaddy's one day and there was only one other customer in the store the whole time I was there.  That must have been a rough day for the clerk.  The ONE clerk.

Another thing that drives me bonkers is people saying that small stores pay good wages with benefits.   That's not true in most cases.  Small business owners can't afford to supply people with paid vacations, paid sick leave, 401 matches, or many of the other benefits places like WM and Target can provide.

I've worked in a lot of businesses in my lifetime in a variety of types or services and I can honestly say that I never had better benefits than I had at WM.  My current job has a few bennies I didn't have at WM but the only significant one is that I make a lot more money now.  WM supported me financialy while I was able to go back to school and get into a field of my choosing.  I was never going to get rich there but I did "OK."

I'm not supporting or defending WM..just presenting facts.

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