About ki6amd


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ki6amd - > I am not a Starbucks drinker! -> Healthcare confusion anyone?
Healthcare confusion anyone?
My confusing thoughts...
Recently when I heard that Micheal Moore's latest movie was available via bittorrent (a peer to peer network [aka file sharing {Think "Napster"}]), I decided to downloaded it to see just how nutty His latest movie was. Of course, I wasn't wasn't going to pay to see his movie (thankfully Micheal Moore doesn't seem to care)! Funny though, while I agree with Micheal Moore that our current health care system is pretty bad, I don't think other countries are going about health care in a fiscally responsible way.

In the movie "Sicko", Micheal Moore seemed like a MAJOR supporter of Hillary Clinton, due to her current and past ideas on health care. While I certainly don't want Hillary as a president, I can see the good that is "possible" with socialized medicine, however I don't think ANYONE in government is capable of coming up with a workable, sustainable socalized health care system.

Sure, some may say that socialized health care is a step towards socialism/communism, I would respond by saying... "so is the public fire department, law enforcement, voting system, post office, etc" All of these things are paid for with taxes. So, yes having government involved in the health care system makes sense (to a degree).
The biggest reason I do NOT want a socialized health care system is because of the cost. I think having a socialized health care system that covers only the basics is key to having a socialized health care system that works. With that in mind, it would still allow room for private enterprise to compete with the government (see USPS versus UPS, FedEx, etc). If basic health care includes only emergency care for adults (who are able to work), but covers all elderly, and minor children, I think socialized medicine could work.

To further explain my stance on this issue (and other issues), as I have said many times before, I am (almost reluctantly) a democrat, but I am a conservative first. I believe in states' rights above anything else, and that is where my democratic vote ends.

As for my opinion of Micheal Moore's movie... it was good for a simi-professional movie, but I wouldn't pay $10 to see it, even if I was a Micheal Moore fan. However I would say that if you do want to see the movie, it is worth your time to watch it, but contact me if you'd like to know more about how to get it, without having to pay the $10 entry fee to the theater.
Posted in these Groups:
Topics: Sicko, healthcare, socialism, Micheal Moore
posted by ki6amd on Monday, July 2, 2007 at 12:38 AM
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36 comments from 13 users

1

posted by ki6amd on Jul 2, 2007 at 12:41 AM
And, No... I didn't switch sides to the left. I'm not an idealist, I'm a realist. And furthermore, I think you should be an American citizen before you're given ANY government benefits!
posted by myxlnt1 on Jul 2, 2007 at 01:04 AM
Wow,there are some intelligent   people in this town.
posted by NancyII on Jul 2, 2007 at 01:08 AM
And here you thought you were the only one.  :-)
posted by ki6amd on Jul 2, 2007 at 01:11 AM
And I thought both sides would go hysterical on me! So far, I'm shocked.
posted by jermox on Jul 2, 2007 at 01:26 AM
Well it's late at night, check back in the morning for the flame wars.
posted by ki6amd on Jul 2, 2007 at 01:34 AM
Yeah, people will be more hostile...MONDAY
posted by dusty1215 on Jul 2, 2007 at 02:19 AM
Hostility on b.com? lawd! Hey, this was a good read Skyler, I learned quite a bit about how you see things and understand why you see them that way.

But..that doesn't mean I agree with all of them :P

We have limited socialized medicine now..its called Medicare. It has it's problems but it works pretty well on the patients end. If we can keep the Doctors from ripping off the system it would be great. I would suggest mandatory jail-time for any Dr that is caught ripping off the system..that might be a good start to cleaning up Medicare.

So I do think Medicare could be rolled out for everyone. My husband is retired and uses Medicare. He also has an HMO to cover the things Medicare doesn't..and the premiums are a whopping 25 bucks a month, and he can choose any Dr in town he wants. Between the two..he is covered for anything and everything. The prescription Part D thing ain't the best in the world..but I am sure that could be worked out..or tweeked a bit.

Oh, and I can't wait to see Moore's movie..but I will go to a matinee when its slightly cheaper. :)
posted by ki6amd on Jul 2, 2007 at 02:31 AM
Well, given Micheal Moore's feelings on piracy I could give you a copy, but I have the feeling you'd rather pay. Which is okay... but I save the theaters for movies that are at least presented as fiction.
posted by dusty1215 on Jul 2, 2007 at 02:40 AM
I would rather pay? Surely you jest sir! I used Napster in the 'old dayz' :P
posted by jfrancais on Jul 2, 2007 at 06:02 AM

 ki6amd, I didn't agree with all of your ideas but hell, I'd vote for you. That's better than anything I have heard by the candidates. Covering the basics is better than what we have now and a two-tier system might actually be a "healthy" compromise between the American public and private health sector. They are trying to implement something like that in Canada to offer some health services at private hospitals while keeping the universal health care system. I don't think he supported Hillary Clinton in the film. I had the impression that he was saying that she sold out to the health industry.

posted by randomfactor on Jul 2, 2007 at 07:01 AM

Skyler, I'm curious as to how other countries are being fiscally irresponsible when they pay half what we do for health care...Thanks for the semi-review, I'm planning on seeing it in the theaters, though.

posted by TomW on Jul 2, 2007 at 08:23 AM
I think having the two tier system would work.  The only issue I have with the idea of emergency only care is that then a lot of people, as we see now, wait until their problem qualifies as an emergency rather than getting early treatment which is much cheaper.  I don't have a problem if people decide to opt out of the system and get private care.

Medicade and Social Security are very well run programs.  The US Military less so but still is pretty amazing compared to the cost and capabilities of Blackwater.  We always hear stories about waste, but if it were actually really common, we probably wouldn't hear about it at all.
posted by TomW on Jul 2, 2007 at 08:28 AM
BTW, I'm looking forward to seeing Sicko, just because Michael Moore is one of the few people out there who tell a pretty balanced story.  It's not that he's far left.  He just tells real stories containing the truth and you instantly believe he's against the right.  :)
posted by mattloch on Jul 2, 2007 at 08:41 AM
That's just because of reality's well-known liberal bias, Tom.....
posted by randomfactor on Jul 2, 2007 at 08:51 AM

Tom, I have a problem with allowing people to "opt out" and get private care.  I have no problem if they want to obtain private care *IN ADDITION TO* participation in national health care.  In fact, I think many will.

.

But the problem with the current national health care is that it's way overbalanced with people who need lots of care and way underbalanced with those who don't.  And that's not good for the nation's health, or the health of its citizens.   If everyone in the country were part of the insurance pool for national health care it would give the essential stability that's absolutely vital. 

posted by sfinboston52 on Jul 2, 2007 at 08:52 AM
Germany has a blend of both socialized health care and private. I believe we could develop a model that would cover every american and in turn would lower overall health care cost. Also, included prescription coverage.
posted by Hardliner4freedom on Jul 2, 2007 at 09:50 AM

Funny, I was thinking of health care costs the other night when talking with a friend about all the medical problems in their family.

When it comes down to it, some people are, well, lemons.  They are forever in need of repair.

Then there are millions of others like myself [knock on wood] who have never seen the inside of a hospital room in any greater capacity than as a visitor or tourist.  And considering the lack of lemons in my immediate family (which now consists entirely of in-laws), even visiting a hospital is a very rare event.

An opt-out system would send all the well-built folks to private insurance, leaving national health care to deal with the lemons.  That would all the greater incentive for private insurance companies to scruw people over.

posted by JenFord on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:06 AM

As a member of the National Association of Health Underwriters, I disagree with the Single-Payer Health Care Delivery System.  Personally, I do not want to pay a more in taxes and also pay a premium for "private care".   Socialized health care is a dangerous possibility in our near future and our citizens need to be aware of the consequences.  Here is a quote about one of those consequences, listed in this website http://www.onthefencefilms....

 "Officially, Canada spends less on health care than the U.S. However, costs are controlled by arbitrarily limiting the number and availability of doctors, specialists, operating room hours, high-tech equipment, diagnostic tests, drugs and expensive treatments. In short, the government limits the supply of health care in order to hold costs down. The result: shortages, rationing, and long wait lists."

We need reform in our current health care system but this is not the answer!

posted by Hardliner4freedom on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:09 AM

Know who currently limits the supply of health care?

Health Underwriters.

Know who currently limits the availability of testing?  Insurance companies.

So six of one; half a dozen of the other.

If single payer is not the answer, what is?

posted by dusty1215 on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:11 AM
Canada has the next to worst healthcare system of all industrialized nations, we have the worst.  We need socialized medicine imho and anything less is unacceptable. Medicare is socialized medicine and it works ok except for the Dr's scamming the system. Those guys should get jail time for ripping off the system.
posted by jfrancais on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:14 AM
That's just not true. I lived in Canada for 4 years and I never saw the long lines that you speak of. I've actually seen longer lines here in the US. I did see flaws in Canada's system but overall it was way better than what we have in the US. In America we have better access to some of the technologies (MRIs, specialists, etc.) but not to the point that it invalidates Canada's health care system. I mean what good is an MRI or a specialist if you can't afford to utilize them? The taxes are higher in Canada but even then, it's  more affordable than US health care if I had to pay for it.
posted by randomfactor on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:20 AM
Dusty, our healthcare system is roughly equal to Cuba's.  It varies from survey to survey, but Canada's often in the top five.
posted by dusty1215 on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:20 AM
There was a recent study conducted that reviewed all industrialized nations based on a certain set of factors. Canada ranked next to last and the U.S. was last. France, England and even Cuba I think ranked in the top or better than the US and Canada.

I have read many horror stories of the time it takes to get a diagnosis and then treatment in Canada. I  have never taken part in their system and can only judge by what I have read. Canada's system does have good and bad..as most probably do, but it seems to be illuminated  more with the closeness of the countries.
posted by randomfactor on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:22 AM
Dusty, I've never seen a study which shows Canada's system even close to ours.  Now, the UK just slipped in a recent study because they changed the criteria studied.  Canada came in #4.
posted by jfrancais on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:22 AM
If you watch SICKO, Cuba's health care system may just surprise you.
posted by randomfactor on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:24 AM
Jfrancis, it's my impression that SiCKO doesn't really deal with *CUBA'S* healthcare system, but Guantanamo's.
posted by dusty1215 on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:26 AM
Here is the recent study conducted. Its an ongoing study btw.
posted by randomfactor on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:29 AM

Surprised to see that, Dusty.  I did see a survey where Canada and the US were tied at the bottom for neonatal survival rates.

posted by jfrancais on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:30 AM
What I noticed firsthand in Canada was the packed emergency rooms during flu season and it was a de facto dropoff point for drunkards when it was -40 C outside. Other than that their "bad" hospitals have better service than in most US cities. There was even a scenario where a 18 year old kid died in Calgary in front of the emergency room due to the large amount of patients during flu season. It was an uncommon occurence, though (even made national news). There are clinics and medi-centers in every neighborhood in larger towns (50,000+) and the focus is on prevention to prevent packed emergency rooms and hospitals. 
posted by jfrancais on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:31 AM
RF I saw the movie on Saturday and they spent a bit of time in Cuba. I don't want to spoil it but it was pretty emotional for me to watch.
posted by randomfactor on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:35 AM

You have to wonder what kind of health-care system we could have if we had Canada's system and split the difference between their spending level and ours.  We'd still save about 20 percent and probably have the health care the Canadians *DREAM* of.

.

We spend three times what the Canadians do on processing paperwork.

posted by jfrancais on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:39 AM
I guess if Canada is at the bottom, there must be some really good health care systems in the world.
posted by mattloch on Jul 2, 2007 at 10:51 AM
Of course, I guess it's better for insurance underwriters to ration care based on the profit motive, as opposed to governmental regulators to limit based on controlling ballooning costs and actual need. At least with the underwriters, our costs are guaranteed to land in the hands of rich investors, who are certain to re-invest their piles of money into America's burgening yacht industry. When the government gets involved, the level of care doesn't rise but the costs drop, and how is that good for America's economy? Less money equals less growth, everybody knows that.......

PS Ki6amd: it's spelled "Michael Moore", not "Micheal".
posted by sagefever on Jul 2, 2007 at 06:01 PM
http://rogerebert.suntimes.... There a review from Ebert,he gets paid for his reviews :-)
posted by myxlnt1 on Jul 4, 2007 at 01:45 AM
I personally, am very happy with medicare [triple bypass $160.000  }  I'm thinking if we had  a socialized plan the  E.R.would not be so busy. Yesterday,my daughterwas very ill we called an ambulance, the only  E.R.that was not closed was  Heart  hospital.  Possibly, if we were socialized,  people could go to a doctor,instead of the ER.
posted by ki6amd on Jul 4, 2007 at 03:50 AM
Or if you decide to see Sicko, you might get idea from a French doctor... something we used to have in the states (WAY before my time). Doctors who make house calls!

TomW - You do make a good point... diagnosis of sever medical conditions can cause a problem with a two tier system (as I described). But my faith in government is not so good that I would trust "Hillary care" to work., nor would I trust an all capitalist system to work either. But having a choice is the MOST important thing to having "freedom" and if we only have a singular system of health care, it will not work (IMHO).
    The question this brings up can go as far as Gatica, or worse, in determining who should get what plan. So what, do you suggest? Of course I might start out by regulating prescription drug prices (and this is where I'll stop because I don't want to discuss "patents" to deeply).
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