I think inadequately diagnosed and treated PTSD is a major reason for that "choice." 

.

And it's only going to get worse.

I was at the VA hospital in LA, just this week, and talked with 5 vet's who are homeless,  and not one of them said they were homeless because they wanted to be, these vets were in the mental health section of the hospital hoping to get help with their disability rating,so they could afford to rent a room to sleep in.  The VA was working with them but each of the 5 men have been waiting for at least 3 months, not a one of them appeared under the influence of anything other than ptsd, being the expert you are johnburn..., I'm sure your familiar with the effects of ptsd, having joined the military right after high school and having no marketable job skills, head injuries,.  In fact, Government figures show that former members of the U.S. military comprise less than 13 percent of the American adult population, yet veterans account for roughly 33 percent of the nation's homeless adult population.

The question is why does Bill O'Reilly go on national TV, and deny the fact in spite of VA documents Veteran's Affairs numbers that there are approximately 200,000 veterans are homeless on any given night.

I heard O'Rielly. Last night.

What I heard him to say comports basically with what JBS posted. He was really responding in general to the negative impression given to the general public about vets much like purported by the erroneous NYT article about how combat vets are more prone to homicice (quite the opposite is the truth in fact).

Veterans are no more prone toward homelessness than the general populace and a goodly % of those you run into are substance abusers, most likely unrelated to military experience. I do think the VA (of all public agencies) should be better funded and the programs for veterans expanded. If anyone deserves our tax dollars, by God our veterans do.

"each of the 5 men have been waiting for at least 3 months, not a one of them appeared under the influence of anything other than ptsd, being the expert you are johnburn..., I'm sure your familiar with the effects of ptsd, having joined the military right after high school and having no marketable job skills, head injuries," ~~montfred

Are you equating PTSD with traumatic head injuries BTW?

RF, I have a wonderful older brother left who suffered from "something" aside from his obvious physical combat injuries. Never could put my finger on it.

He did get some VA help but it was not focused. Some of my dearest friends (military combat vets mostly) who think PTSD is bullsh*t. I'm not so sure.

Some of us handle things better than others. My brother has since raised a wonderful family all the way down to great grand kids. Boy gkids are football stars, every one of 'em. This one of my bros was always real quiet. I wonder now if he was autistic. But things he saw really bothered him. He used to get mad as hell at me after the war when I would joke about some aspects. Its was my way of "dealing with it". His was to agonize over it.

All I do know is the little bit of help the VA gave him did a world of good and I wish there was money for more. Most of my charitable time goes to veterans affairs. I wish more felt that way.

A society that cannot and will not look after its old warriors doesn't deserve to have any new ones.

My brother was spit on when he returned home from Viet Nam. Maybe random can help thousands of other Vets who experienced the same treatment? I do have hope.

Spam Code: satan

Chico:

We seem to agree on most subjects

How about me and a few buddies coming up and do alittle Dove Quail hunting

Believe me I won't bring Random or Matt    maybe Sage and Nancy

Ron.

Dove won't be as good as quail but sure

Except for Sage. I refuse to walk point if she's in the group

(she still harbors some animosity for things said - H2O below the raised overthewateredifice - and she might get a "flashback" -- heehee!)

Tons of quail lately

I always thought them better eating than them little nothin' doves anyhoo

Honestly though, the only birds I enjoy shooting much anymore are them damn wild turkeys. They're a wiley lot though.

(male season comin' up in March BTW)

My brother was spit on when he returned home from Viet Nam.

Really? I always thought that was a myth. If anyone had spit on my brother when he came back, they would have had to have their stomachs pumped to retrieve their teeth.

Your brother was more like me robb. But the brother I was talking about would have been more prone to just "take it"

Sometime I will recount to you what did happen to him when he came back. It was some hippy chick. Really hurt his feelings. I just told him F her but thats not his style. He let it eat at him.

I've seen "apologists" for the 60's types say the spitting was a myth. I'm not so sure. It didn't happen to me directly but I do know quite a few who said they experienced it. What I experienced was far more subtle. I always felt the "hippies" were just misguided and their wrath was directed at politicos and not us per se.

I used to go to River Island Ron.  Mentioned it on here to the "golf guy" but he hated me anyway, never responded.

It used to be Montgomery Drilling's course (at least they always fronted us to go) and it was kinda cool. I used to play golf in ME and the course we played on was all sand. They would oil it around the greens. Man, that was shore purty <dripping with sarcasm> a veritable "pebble beach"......

I quit golfing years ago. Its to frustrating for me. I like things where I can over come by being in better shape, overpower it, or just gut it out. That ain't golf.

I'd hit a really great shot (once in a blue moon) and never could reprise it. Then I'd have another beer and get better until I got TMB (too many beers) then regressed to the point where I wanted to bend the clubs around the nearest oak. I haven't the "temperament" for golf it seems. I'll just stick to martial arts, huntin', shootin', liftin', bikin', and walkin'.  (and throwin' bottom bales)

robb, My brother and his friend never imagined to hurt anyone. That didn't help them though when they flew into San Francisco airport. They changed clothing in the bathroom and acted like "normal people" from there on out.

Sage, sometimes (blue moons again) we agree 100%.

Worlds collide

Birds stop in flight

Factories close their doors

Dogs quit lickin' their

Olberman quits slobbering

So does Carvile

But if we don't take care of our veterans, we have no right to call ourselves a nation (of laws or men)

Damm Chico you must be 20 years younger than me!

I gave up the weight lifting 20 years ago     now I have a hard time with 12 ounce Bud

Carrying my shotgun becomes a stuggle in a mile walk

Glad to see your in better shape   and Golf I hate it    but I play it to piss me off

Haha Rob. I was referring to 12 oz. curls as weight lifting actually  ;=)

Sometimes when I'm going for pure bulk, I'll curl with a forty (like OE800 or even 211 or Mickey's)

Last time I walked much hunting, I needed an iron lung when I got back.

I wanted a cigar real bad but was afraid the oxygen tank might blow up!

I'm almost same age dude.  Is there "No Country for Old Men?"

Robb or Ron

Rob is 7' tall I'm 5'7"

I'll excuse myself for missing the news that vets were getting spit on when they returned home. I was probably busy playing frisbee tag or throwing citrus at my friends and oblivious. If you know people that were so abused by hippies, I'll take your word for it.

Before going to Viet Nam, my brother was stationed at Hamilton AFB in San Rafael. We went there for a vist and he took us on a tour through the Haight. Quite a spectacle, but hard to imagine that crowd getting the up the nerve or gumption for a prolonged spitting attack on fit servicemen. There must have been more than a few hippies that got their lights punched-out; wouldn't you think?  

I spent 6 months working with a group of vet's at Loma Linda VA Hospital, on a daily basis, and would like to know what you mean by, " Some of my dearest friends (military combat vets mostly) who think PTSD is bullsh*t. I'm not so sure."

Why are you not sure PTSD is not bullsh*t.?  Have you ever experienced combat?  As a Viet Nam era medic, I would be most interested in this information. ~~Montfred

I meant they all think it is BullSh*t whereas I am not so sure myself (that it is indeed bullsh*t).... And I can put in to an SF email circuit with most of them and trust me they are grizzled crusty combat vets of every stripe (or branch but mostly Army). 11B40&50S's or more currently 18A-Z's. I have CIB, thats about the extent of it. Two bros with them too. One other served in VN w/ air medals only.

You know how us guys are. Especially those that go through jump school, etc. Unless you are bleeding, you best not complain. Its similar to the "cowboy" ethic I still see. If the bone ain't stickin' out through the skin, it ain't really broke!

I think you can get PTSD from more than just combat BTW. I watched my bro (point I think was missed by you) and was convinced it was more than just his obvious physical injuries (which he overcame in due course) that comprised the bulk of his subsequent problems. He was in VA hospital for months and I used to visit him. Thats when I became enamored with doing things for borther veterans.

I told you before I had to turn my head and even step out in hall during "Born on 4th of July" when they were showing VA hospital scenes. It was just  too much. Maybe that is even a form of PTSD?

Is that 5'7" tall or around, Ron?

Montfred,

I watch O'Reilly nearly every night. Half the time, I'm screaming at the TV. The other half, I'm laughing. My wife gets pouty when I turn Hannity and Colmes off to watch The Lehr News Hour, but one hour of brand Fox is enough for me. O'Reilly seemed reasonable to me explaining why he was going after Edwards and his statement about the 200,000 homeless vets under bridges, etc. The truth is probably somewhere in between. Instead of demanding the bloggers here explain or apologize for Bill's rhetoric, why don't you go to his website and read his explanation? Come back and report to us what you find.   

"I find Kieth Olberman far more "offensive" than O'Rielly

At least O'Rielly donates time and money to the troops

Olberman just froths at the mouth and throws red meat for the RF, ML, AP's of the world."

So I thought I'd give him a place to discuss those thoughts,   And, then the discussion about golf trips and bird hunting seemed to me to be turning this discussion away from the topic, my apologies to all I have offended.

I also try and take in an hour a day of Fox News, while I record The News Hour, which I watch later in the evening.

I'm outta here have some honeydews to take care of, so I take back my request, use this space to write about anything you want.

I have two friends I talk to every morning.  One is very liberal and hates anything to do with Republicans Bush and thinks the VA around the Central Coast is horrible and it is Bush's fault that his last appointment [two years ago] was scheduled a year away.  The other is a Conservative Republican and sees nothing wrong with the VA and he has real problems also.  There is a brand new VA facility in Santa Maria and the liberal friend has yet to check it out.  Two different political views and two totally different VA care opinions.  Just think its interesting.

One more thing If O"reilly was running for office I might give a Sh*T.

My brother was spit on when he returned home from Viet Nam.

There are no confirmed cases that this actually happened to any 'Nam vets. It's a myth.

Have your brother go on the Internet and do a search for the groups that are looking for proof and have him offer his up.

when they flew into San Francisco airport.

Ah, the old "flew into San Francisco airport" myth.

The story always falls apart when the fact comes out there were no military flights into SFR.

 One last note:  Bush promised to fix the problems at Walter Reed more than a year ago. According to the GAO, nothing has been done.

I think he meant into Travis AFB. Fairfield is not that far from San Fran.

Like I said I didn't personally get "spit on" but I know quite a few vets that claimed similar treatment upon returning. I don't say they are full of it like TSM boldly claims, but admittedly  I just don't know.

I came back twice, once through Travis and once through SeaTac (Fort Lewis).

We weren't spit on but we weren't "cheered" either.

I would ask TSM, in all seriousness, just how do you KNOW the "spitting" is a myth? Were you there or are you just snoping and googling?

Its pretty easy to act like an expert, especially from the Lazy Boy.

This from a poster referred to as Sweeny_Tod on Snopes (which pretty much coincides with what I saw:

"I was stationed in Japan at the tail end of the Viet Nam war. When I flew back stateside from Japan, I flew from Yokota Air Base to Travis AFB, north of San Francisco via a MAC (Military Airlift COmmand) flight. There was a shuttle that ran between Travis and SFI. Since air travel was in uniform, unless orders specified otherwise, I arrived in SFI wearing the uniform of my country. No one spit on me but, I was treated rudely and had more than one taunt and curse thrown at me. But, only in SF, not in any other airport. There was a certain mob mentality going on back then when it came to the soldiers returning. Contrary to when my father was in uniform during WWII and treated nice by everyone, wearing a uniform at the end of the Viet Nam war seemed to bring out the worse in a lot of civilians. I am glad to see that, people seem to look back at that time with regret and are not treating our returning warriers with the same disrespect as they did 30+ years ago."

From Snopes.com

Kat: Your brother was not lying about coming back to SF Airport. Just like at SeaTac and other points of re-entry, when you DEROS'd from 'Nam you many times went to an AB then shuttled to the nearest major airport and concomitant carriers to your destination. Since he was still in uniform it is a technicality to assert that he did not fly into SF Airport directly and it seems to me, an attempt to discredit his entire story.

I know what happened to one of my borthers (25th ID - VN) upon his return on a bus between Fort Lewis and SeaTac.

And thats a fact Jack

Bombfixer Join Date: 08 January 2007
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 29 
"I was returning from Viet-Nam in July of 1969. We flew from Da Nang to Travis AFB via Japan and Alaska. We landed at Travis AFB in Oakland, CA. On July 25th I was bussed to San Francisco International Airport to await further transportation Eastbound. I was spit on, had coffee spilled on me, and recieved very hostile stares and rude comments like "baby killer" said to me. Some of those who were with us actually had their "awol" bags ripped from their hands. "Awol" bag was a name given to a small gym bag sized carry on that we used at the time. ~~Bomb Fixer
 

Another blog entry by someone TSM would write off as just another liar. I'd like some bonafides from him as to how he can be so damn sure it didn't happen. To me the jury is out.

The last refuge of a scoundrel (one of them) is to call his betters liars.

I hate to admit it Kat, but for a long long time I couldn't watch the VN documentaries on the tube without crying.

It was damned embarrassing. One of the boys asked me once why I did that. Of course he also was the boy who asked me when watching Full Metal Jacket why they had to yell at them all the time. ;=)

He may never understand. That is the case with many. But that is OK.

As Voltaire said..................

Kat~ that is exactly how i reacted to your advocacy of suicide for a non terminal disease yesterday. That is what we often forget in our haste to make points. There are real people here,with real issues. Suicide is not some abstract solution to me,your brothers experiences are not abstract to you. Vets were not treated well by many. I only have my own experience to judge by,I was against the Viet Nam war, I "baby sat" a neighbor as he "came down" from his war time experiences. The war was wrong IMHO,but never the boys who went to fight it. That attitude was not shared by all. It is many years later and we are still fighting that war. Sad.

Help a vet today!

Matt...I thought your "Homerism" was right on the money and pretty humorous.  I know it isn't a humorous situation but that was a good response anyway.

A little gallows humor is always around.

This may surpirsie you but I took the Homer bit just as I think it was delivered.

And I chuckled.

I love the Simpsons, and while it is a sad a$$ situation for the teacher, to me a good ol' "DOH" just about summed it up.

I've done myriad "DOH's" in my life (and I'm sure there will me more) but none have been nearly as big a "DOH" as this guys was.

You dance, you pay the fiddler

BTW Montfred, a Navy Corpsman saved the life of my best friend at the time, a Recon Marine in I Corps.

Didn't do much good though. He was wounded several more times and finally discharged from the Crotch. He was in a wheelchair by then.

He wheeled it into Rogue River one day

I'm not so sure he wasn't pushed though

We were in college together. He was the most decorated VN Marine from OR.

I still pray for him.

He should be on the wall IMO.